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This is a MMORPG not a single player game.

kain-iiikain-iii Member Posts: 146

Here is a Link to a post I made in the SWG forums.


This is a MMORPG not a single player game.


I know a lot of people did not like Decay, wounds, Buffs etc but it is was a big factor in what kept us socializing and depending upon one another.


Also this is what a MMORPG should be.


A MMORPG is more then just a game. It is a community.


Those people that want everything handed to them with no decay etc. You are looking for a single player game.


Please stop trying to turn a MMORPG into a single player game.


Whining about the price of buffs.


All you whiners that wanted everything handed to you and did not appreciate anything are the reason we have NGE.


Complaining about the price of buffs is completely STUPID. Do you know the costs and amount of work invovled with making buffs? Gathering ubber resources and meats is time consuming (6 Months Min) and or expensive. Not only that you needed to purchase foods, clothing, and medical droids to make ur buffs more effective.


After all that work paying top dollar 15k for a buff was not worth it? You could make 3 times your money after one mission. I believe the rancor missions were 40k and only took 15 mins tops.


So complaining about 15k for a 3.5 Hr buff when you made 3 times your money in 15 minutes is just STUPID.


You cry babies ruined this game. You wanted everything handed to and given to you right there and then.


You successfully turned a MMORPG into a single player game.


Sure buffs and dots could of been adjusted but scrapping it was just stupid. All that was need was a bump in default stats and a tone down of buffs. This way you could still get things done but if you were doing something challenging or just wanted to make things easier for yourself you could just go and get a buff.



Now whining about the price of crafting products.


Do you know the amount of work put into making products? Being a top notch crafter required a investment of MILLIONS. To be a 12 Point ubber Crafter was a lot of work and not cheap by any means.


So charging top dollar for a top product is more the Justified.


How can people complain about prices of crafting when the price of looting items is even more outrageous then when crafting was around.


If you wanted a cheap product all you had to do was a vendor search of the entire galaxy and bam you had the cheapest in the galaxy. That wasn't cheap enough for you. How about talking to your guild crafters. Half the time they gave free stuff to guildees.


Thanks to you whiners all we have is the crap we have now.


You successfully turned a MMORPG into a single player game.

Comments

  • DistopiaDistopia Member EpicPosts: 21,183


    Originally posted by kain-iii

    Here is a Link to a post I made in the SWG forums.


    This is a MMORPG not a single player game.


    I know a lot of people did not like Decay, wounds, Buffs etc but it is was a big factor in what kept us socializing and depending upon one another.


    Also this is what a MMORPG should be.


    A MMORPG is more then just a game. It is a community.


    Those people that want everything handed to them with no decay etc. You are looking for a single player game.


    Please stop trying to turn a MMORPG into a single player game.


    Whining about the price of buffs.


    All you whiners that wanted everything handed to you and did not appreciate anything are the reason we have NGE.


    Complaining about the price of buffs is completely STUPID. Do you know the costs and amount of work invovled with making buffs? Gathering ubber resources and meats is time consuming (6 Months Min) and or expensive. Not only that you needed to purchase foods, clothing, and medical droids to make ur buffs more effective.


    After all that work paying top dollar 15k for a buff was not worth it? You could make 3 times your money after one mission. I believe the rancor missions were 40k and only took 15 mins tops.


    So complaining about 15k for a 3.5 Hr buff when you made 3 times your money in 15 minutes is just STUPID.


    You cry babies ruined this game. You wanted everything handed to and given to you right there and then.


    You successfully turned a MMORPG into a single player game.


    Sure buffs and dots could of been adjusted but scrapping it was just stupid. All that was need was a bump in default stats and a tone down of buffs. This way you could still get things done but if you were doing something challenging or just wanted to make things easier for yourself you could just go and get a buff.

    Now whining about the price of crafting products.

    Do you know the amount of work put into making products? Being a top notch crafter required a investment of MILLIONS. To be a 12 Point ubber Crafter was a lot of work and not cheap by any means.

    So charging top dollar for a top product is more the Justified.

    How can people complain about prices of crafting when the price of looting items is even more outrageous then when crafting was around.

    If you wanted a cheap product all you had to do was a vendor search of the entire galaxy and bam you had the cheapest in the galaxy. That wasn't cheap enough for you. How about talking to your guild crafters. Half the time they gave free stuff to guildees.

    Thanks to you whiners all we have is the crap we have now.


    You successfully turned a MMORPG into a single player game.


    Yes large scale whining is what got us where we are today , No argument there . Kinda of brings on the phrase "Be careful of what you ask for , You might just get it . " .

    For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson


  • MrArchyMrArchy Member Posts: 643

    I suggest forced interdependency, a key element in any true MMO, was not "iconic" or "Star Warsy" and thereby is being phased out.

    SWG Veteran and Refugee, Intrepid server
    NGE free as of Nov. 22, 2005
    Now Playing: World of Warcrack
    Forum Terrorist
    image

  • KenshuAniKenshuAni Member CommonPosts: 851
    Heh.  The last time I was on, it was a single player game.  I didn't have the Mustafar expansion so there was no "content" that I couldn't solo.  This might have changed with the last few publishes...
  • KylrathinKylrathin Member Posts: 426
    Everything you said was 100% true, kain-iii.  I hope somebody listens.  Doubtful, but I hope someone does.

    There's a sucker born every minute. - P.T. Barnum

  • TillerTiller Member LegendaryPosts: 11,488

    Same thing I said in another thread

    He says people hated decay,

    I don't remember one post pre-cu saying "Decay sux, remove it!" I do remember noobs and people who didn't understand the systems complain about how much crafters sold stuff for, but the price point was really set by the combatants who charged the crafters what they charged for harvested resources (hides,meat, bone) as well as things like tissue, scale and other additives. The price points where set a long time ago. Like with any business crafters had to recover expenditures as well as make a profit. If you want to get technical about it, a good hunter was really the one profiting the most from the deal. Crafters high profits came strictly from producing large volumes of goods. Just like with any business in the real world it takes a lot of investment before it becomes truly profit. With a hunter it was a smaller investment, high profit.


    Take for instance Nabooian avian meat which was used for making buff packs. On Bloodfin pre-cu it was of some of the highest quality for making them. I could hunt giant peko peko unbuffed no armor and pull about 100 units off a bird with low level scout. Say I could then turn around and sell it for about 20 CPU. Don't seem like a lot but 2000 credits per bird is a lot of money for no more than one or two shots. For a crafter to recover that cost they had to gather or pay for more resources to make the buff packs and sell those to the doctor who in turn charged you 10-12k for a buff so you could go have fun in DWB for 3 hours or go hunt something bigger and make more money than the 10k you just spent on the buff. Really a smart combatant could make more money than anyone right from the gate in shorter periods of time, but a fully stocked crafter would turn larger volumes of profit over a longer period of time. It was mostly a learning curve that stopped as many people from figuring this out but I blame that on people with little patience and a very poor tutorial with no content to guide a player through this. Eve has systems in place to help new players get the most out of their experience as a tradesman but SWG failed on that hence the lack of understanding of the area for most players.

    SWG Bloodfin vet
    Elder Jedi/Elder Bounty Hunter
     
  • OssirisWardOssirisWard Member Posts: 74
    Great post OP, I agree 150%!!!!

    image

  • jrscottjrscott Member Posts: 1,252

    Agree 110%! 

    I just wonder if you would get such a happy, happy, joy, joy response if you posted this in the official "suckboards" at SOE.  No, I don't wonder really.  Those little crybabies would flame you back here! 

    Great post.

    I realize I said I quit. I never said it was forever :)

  • DistopiaDistopia Member EpicPosts: 21,183
    He did post it on the suckboards.

    For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson


  • RekrulRekrul Member Posts: 2,961
    Some things to note here.

    Buffs were, well, game-breaking. When in the canon did anyone get buffed?

    But it was the name of the game. This is just like saying that WoW shouldn't be about epic grind. Or instance raiding. Or that EvE shouldn't be about long travel times, and that in that time someone should invent a very small and portable hyperspace system. Or people complaining about GW being instanced.

    It's what the game is about.

    Of course, there's more than one way to skin a cat. Every single game out there does buffs properly. They boost something for a limited ammount of time, while in most cases taking something in return. The buffs in SWG made a character 30-40x stronger, while at the same time having no downside. They also eliminated the need for food, weapon and armor penalty, the stat depletion mechanism and made pvp impossible (hence the 75% reduction).

    It wasn't the buffs that were the problem, it was the fact how everything got thrown out of whack by them. Who in their right mind would add a free-for-all on-demand 30x stat boost? I mean, if you compare it to levels, that like buffing a level 30 to level 900.

    I calculate the buff strength with cumulative effect on all stats. They generally boosted a stat 3-4 times, and with 9 stats that ends up at 30-40x the effectiveness. All stats must be considered equally, and while they might not increase your single attribute by that much, they did increase the survivability by similar ammount.

    But buffs were part of the game, and majority didn't mind them. There were just the permanent whiner, who still whine about everything, and they cater to them. And it doesn't change a thing, they just lose all the other players in the process.

    MMOs are about content, not mechanics or graphics. No MMO will ever succeed because of some feature. Look at UO. Still going, but it kept the core concept of skill/sandbox model. Players play the game because of what apeals to them, not because of what they hate.

    If SWG invested into actual content, the whines about combat would still be there, but people would still be playing. Now, no new content has been added (expansions are per-purchase, and not addition to existing game), and people whine more than ever about combat and mechanics. If anything, over 80% of content has been removed. The content that made people stay.

    But this is what happens when you put middle managers in charge of leading roles.




  • jrscottjrscott Member Posts: 1,252


    Originally posted by Malickiebloo
    He did post it on the suckboards.

    DOH!  What a noob I am.  Read the WHOLE dang post JR! 

    I realize I said I quit. I never said it was forever :)

  • jrscottjrscott Member Posts: 1,252


    Originally posted by Rekrul


    I calculate the buff strength with cumulative effect on all stats. They generally boosted a stat 3-4 times, and with 9 stats that ends up at 30-40x the effectiveness. All stats must be considered equally, and while they might not increase your single attribute by that much, they did increase the survivability by similar ammount.



    My instincts tell me it was more of a hyperbolic equation with the effectiveness approaching infinity the stronger the buff got.   

    If you think about it, you had 2500+ added to your health and action.  That by itself was 3-4x effectiveness and if those were the only two stats affected you would not add those multipliers together because killing either one off would incap you. 

    Then the secondary stat that prevented you from using action had to be factored.  This would be a function; not a linear modification to effectiveness. 

    Finally, the secondaries that promoted faster healing would have been functions and not linear and the damage capability of the enemy as well as the encumberance of your armor and weapon would factor in.

    The bottom line is 30-40x may actually be a good number to use, though in some circumstances that might even be too low.  It's just not as simple as adding the stat multipliers.

    I realize I said I quit. I never said it was forever :)

  • ShaydeShayde Member Posts: 4,529


    So..

    Ya get perma-banned for posting that yet?

    Or sis the badgerbanger and other retarded fanbois just bach you all to hell?

    EDIT: OMFG.. I just read the suckboards, and guess what posted THIS?


    Define what you mean by MMORPG. Game developers haven't yet, so it's
    really arrogance by players who think they know what the DEVs are
    getting at when they say MMOG-MMO-MMORPG-MMOFPS.



    Come on.. one guess.


    P.S... got to page 4 before I had to stop. I was losing more brain cells reading those idiots posts than if I used a sledge hammer on my own skull.




    Shayde - SWG (dead)
    Proud member of the Cabal.
    image

    imageimage
    It sounds great, so great in fact, I pitty those who canceled :( - Some deluded SWG fanboi who pities me.
    I don't like it when you say things. - A Vanguard fan who does too.
    09f911029d74e35bd84156c5635688c0

  • iskareotiskareot Member Posts: 2,143


    Originally posted by Shayde
    So..

    Ya get perma-banned for posting that yet?

    Or sis the badgerbanger and other retarded fanbois just bach you all to hell?

    EDIT: OMFG.. I just read the suckboards, and guess what posted THIS?

    Define what you mean by MMORPG. Game developers haven't yet, so it's really arrogance by players who think they know what the DEVs are getting at when they say MMOG-MMO-MMORPG-MMOFPS.

    Come on.. one guess.


    P.S... got to page 4 before I had to stop. I was losing more brain cells reading those idiots posts than if I used a sledge hammer on my own skull.


    Lol -- Irony for the WIN!

    I see this post and think -- W T F The entire NGE was like this from the start?

    Where have these people been that think that NOW this is geared as a single player game?

    Crap the NGE made this game a solo made game... in fact you do not even need to craft... you can just loot it all or buy it.

    Pretty much I think this has been this way since the start, no need for anyone anymore.  Just click and go..

    ______________________________
    I usually picture the Career builder commercial with the room full of monkeys and upside down sales chart when thinking about the SOE/SWG decision making process.....
    SOE's John Blakely and Todd Fiala issued a warning: "Don't make our mistakes." Ref NGE
    Winner of the worst MMOS goes to.... the NGE and SWG..!!! http://www.mmorpg.com/showFeature.cfm?loadFeature=1034&bhcp=1

  • YukmotYukmot Member Posts: 36


    Originally posted by kain-iii


    Here is a Link to a post I made in the SWG forums.


    This is a MMORPG not a single player game.

    I know a lot of people did not like Decay, wounds, Buffs etc but it is was a big factor in what kept us socializing and depending upon one another.

    Also this is what a MMORPG should be.

    A MMORPG is more then just a game. It is a community.

    Those people that want everything handed to them with no decay etc. You are looking for a single player game.

    Please stop trying to turn a MMORPG into a single player game.

    Whining about the price of buffs.

    All you whiners that wanted everything handed to you and did not appreciate anything are the reason we have NGE.

    Complaining about the price of buffs is completely STUPID. Do you know the costs and amount of work invovled with making buffs? Gathering ubber resources and meats is time consuming (6 Months Min) and or expensive. Not only that you needed to purchase foods, clothing, and medical droids to make ur buffs more effective.

    After all that work paying top dollar 15k for a buff was not worth it? You could make 3 times your money after one mission. I believe the rancor missions were 40k and only took 15 mins tops.

    So complaining about 15k for a 3.5 Hr buff when you made 3 times your money in 15 minutes is just STUPID.

    You cry babies ruined this game. You wanted everything handed to and given to you right there and then.

    You successfully turned a MMORPG into a single player game.

    Sure buffs and dots could of been adjusted but scrapping it was just stupid. All that was need was a bump in default stats and a tone down of buffs. This way you could still get things done but if you were doing something challenging or just wanted to make things easier for yourself you could just go and get a buff.


    Now whining about the price of crafting products.

    Do you know the amount of work put into making products? Being a top notch crafter required a investment of MILLIONS. To be a 12 Point ubber Crafter was a lot of work and not cheap by any means.

    So charging top dollar for a top product is more the Justified.

    How can people complain about prices of crafting when the price of looting items is even more outrageous then when crafting was around.

    If you wanted a cheap product all you had to do was a vendor search of the entire galaxy and bam you had the cheapest in the galaxy. That wasn't cheap enough for you. How about talking to your guild crafters. Half the time they gave free stuff to guildees.

    Thanks to you whiners all we have is the crap we have now.

    You successfully turned a MMORPG into a single player game.


    My complaint about buffs was not the cost. My complaint about buffs were that they were required if you wanted to pvp. If you wanted to fight you needed to wait in line for some doc to drug you up because without buffs you were worthless, or worse yet couldn't even wear your armor. So much was wrong with the buff system, in my opinion that is part of the game that IS better now, you can just jump into pvp without having to see a doc. Now I do agree with you on decay, I really think they need to bring that back ASAP.

    Yukmot

  • MrArchyMrArchy Member Posts: 643


    Originally posted by Yukmot

    Originally posted by kain-iii






    My complaint about buffs was not the cost. My complaint about buffs were that they were required if you wanted to pvp. If you wanted to fight you needed to wait in line for some doc to drug you up because without buffs you were worthless, or worse yet couldn't even wear your armor. So much was wrong with the buff system, in my opinion that is part of the game that IS better now, you can just jump into pvp without having to see a doc. Now I do agree with you on decay, I really think they need to bring that back ASAP.


    ..... or you could have just agreed to PvP with all participants not having buffs, wearing comparable armor, etc.  This isn't something you necessarily needed a developer to fix for you - just define the terms of your PvP to accomodate the wishes you expressed.

    SWG Veteran and Refugee, Intrepid server
    NGE free as of Nov. 22, 2005
    Now Playing: World of Warcrack
    Forum Terrorist
    image

  • ShaydeShayde Member Posts: 4,529


    Originally posted by Yukmot
    My complaint about buffs was not the cost. My complaint about buffs were that they were required if you wanted to pvp. If you wanted to fight you needed to wait in line for some doc to drug you up because without buffs you were worthless, or worse yet couldn't even wear your armor. So much was wrong with the buff system, in my opinion that is part of the game that IS better now, you can just jump into pvp without having to see a doc. Now I do agree with you on decay, I really think they need to bring that back ASAP.


    Give credit where it is due.. buffs were gone with the CU.

    Shayde - SWG (dead)
    Proud member of the Cabal.
    image

    imageimage
    It sounds great, so great in fact, I pitty those who canceled :( - Some deluded SWG fanboi who pities me.
    I don't like it when you say things. - A Vanguard fan who does too.
    09f911029d74e35bd84156c5635688c0

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