Originally posted by ianubisi Don't bo so cavalier about it. You could be sued if the company decided it was worth their time to pursue litigation.
But it isn't worth it. That's the point. That's why people break the NDA... because they know nothing will be done to them, because it is not worth it for the company to bother.
Recently I have seen many instances where people have hinted or threatened that beta testers are subject to legal action if they break a non-disclosure agreement (NDA).
There are some things that gamers and beta testers should know about NDAs.
a legalcontract between at least two parties which outlines confidentiality materials the parties wish to share with one another for certain purposes, but wish to restrict from generalized use. In other words, it is a contract through which the parties agree not to disclose information covered by the agreement. An NDA creates a confidential relationship between the parties to protect any type of trade secret. As such, an NDA can protect non-public business information.
Gaming companies often require beta testers to sign NDAs or agree to them in some electronic form.
But to what extent are these NDAs even binding?
A NDA is a form of contract and not all contracts are legally binding.
For a contract to be legally binding it must:
Be signed by someone of competent capacity.
Have a lawful purpose.
Contain consideration for all parties involved.
Now many beta testers may not be of competent capacity because they are too young in their jurisdiction to legally enter into a contract, but for everyone else if all elements of the contract are there, the contract is legally binding.
For instance if you are a beta tester for a game such as, oh I don't know, Roma Victor and you sign a NDA, then you are giving them consideration, that consideration being that you will not reveal anything about the game.
But what consideration are they giving you? For this NDA to be legally binding the consideration must be mutual.
A gaming company might say that the consideration is that you are allowed to play their game, but the truth is that the purpose of a beta tester is to BETA TEST regardless of the fact you get to try the game you are doing it in the capacity of a suedo employee. It is extremely unlikely that this argument would be considered valid in court.
Imagine if you went to work for someone and they told you they don't have to pay you because the priviledge of working for them is consideration and compensation enough.
Probably not a valid employment contract huh?
So if you signed a NDA and are not recieving any consideration as per the agreement, then you are not bound by it in any legal sense, however the company is completely within its rights to strip you of your beta account and access.
Now while reading on the forums of MMORPG.COM I came accross a developer who, jokingly or not I'm not sure, mentioned the option of suing for libel.
Gamers, and testers, and the general public should be informed as to what exactly constitutes libel or slander.
Libel and slander are what constitute defamation. Libel is defamation that can be seen, such as in writing, printing, effigy, a movie, or a statue. Slander is any defamation that is spoken and heard.
But for something to actually be considered defamation it must first and foremost BE FALSE! If what is said is not false then it is not defamation and cannot be libel or slander.
Now this is just the basic principle and main defense to any libel or slander suit. Particulars may vary in different jurisdictions, but this demonstrates that as long as what you say is true you are protected.
Gaming companies these days, like many other companies tend to rely on the ignorance of their consumers in order to have them act or agree to things that they have no real right to do.
In Ontario, where I reside, I liken the actions of companies to that of Landlords here who constantly include cluases in Leases that contravene the Tenant Protection Act.
For example it is not permitted for a Landlord to ask for post-dated cheques, or require the tenants sign an agreement that they will have no pets in their apartment, but these are very standard clauses that are still in the majority of Lease Agreements.
It is important to note that players who are paid to beta test a game are recieving consideration and so the NDA is a legally binding contract. Also if a gaming company agreed to pay every beta tester 1 cent for their accepting the NDA then the mutual consideration would be fulfilled and the agreement would be legally binding."
It's also worth noting that the EU has drastically different confidentiality laws than the US (why a lot of developers tend to run US-only betas, to avoid more legal hassle), such as the fact that long-term IP records are not kept, making it very hard to actually pin any charges like that on EU residents.
Originally posted by ianubisi Don't bo so cavalier about it. You could be sued if the company decided it was worth their time to pursue litigation.
A company sueing a customer?
I'd like to see the "free" marketing that their competitors would grant them.
Personnally I would never break a NDA, however to think they would sue a "customer" or "potential customer" is frivolous, it is a wild and insane dream entertain by some sickos. When a hand feed you, you may DREAM about biting it, but you never go further than that, you don't even make this hand feel that you could just be dreaming about biting it, nope, not at all.
A company sueing an individual for NDA stuff would risk been sued back by bigger companies. Don't think for 1 moment that Microsoft would discard the idea of sueing an "evil" company who sued a customer, if it "help improve" the world, they would consider it. And if Microsoft wouldn't, there are plenty other companies out there that might. Is sueing an individual worth taking the risk of been sued by a company with the ressources to back it up? Nope.
A company is free to build or buy a list of peoples who respect NDA and of peoples who doesn't respect a NDA if they are not going to developp that list themselves for any reason. I see much too lose, nearly nothing to gain by sueing a "customer"...no matter how badly this customer behaves.
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
Whether or not the person broke the NDA is not the issue in a civil suit. The issues in a civil case have to do with linking the defendant's actions to a specific damage amount, and since this is almost impossible to prove in most cases of NDA violation, I think its highly unlikely that a successful civil case can be mounted against an NDA breaker.
__________________________ "Its sad when people use religion to feel superior, its even worse to see people using a video game to do it." --Arcken
"...when it comes to pimping EVE I have little restraints." --Hellmar, CEO of CCP.
"It's like they took a gun, put it to their nugget sack and pulled the trigger over and over again, each time telling us how great it was that they were shooting themselves in the balls." --Exar_Kun on SWG's NGE
Comments
C
http://theinformedgamer.blogspot.com/
"Why Non-disclosure Agreements Mean Squat
There are some things that gamers and beta testers should know about NDAs.
Wikepedia defines a NDA as:
But to what extent are these NDAs even binding?
A NDA is a form of contract and not all contracts are legally binding.
For a contract to be legally binding it must:
Now many beta testers may not be of competent capacity because they are too young in their jurisdiction to legally enter into a contract, but for everyone else if all elements of the contract are there, the contract is legally binding.
For instance if you are a beta tester for a game such as, oh I don't know, Roma Victor and you sign a NDA, then you are giving them consideration, that consideration being that you will not reveal anything about the game.
But what consideration are they giving you? For this NDA to be legally binding the consideration must be mutual.
A gaming company might say that the consideration is that you are allowed to play their game, but the truth is that the purpose of a beta tester is to BETA TEST regardless of the fact you get to try the game you are doing it in the capacity of a suedo employee. It is extremely unlikely that this argument would be considered valid in court.
Imagine if you went to work for someone and they told you they don't have to pay you because the priviledge of working for them is consideration and compensation enough.
Probably not a valid employment contract huh?
So if you signed a NDA and are not recieving any consideration as per the agreement, then you are not bound by it in any legal sense, however the company is completely within its rights to strip you of your beta account and access.
Now while reading on the forums of MMORPG.COM I came accross a developer who, jokingly or not I'm not sure, mentioned the option of suing for libel.
Gamers, and testers, and the general public should be informed as to what exactly constitutes libel or slander.
Libel and slander are what constitute defamation. Libel is defamation that can be seen, such as in writing, printing, effigy, a movie, or a statue. Slander is any defamation that is spoken and heard.
But for something to actually be considered defamation it must first and foremost BE FALSE! If what is said is not false then it is not defamation and cannot be libel or slander.
Now this is just the basic principle and main defense to any libel or slander suit. Particulars may vary in different jurisdictions, but this demonstrates that as long as what you say is true you are protected.
Gaming companies these days, like many other companies tend to rely on the ignorance of their consumers in order to have them act or agree to things that they have no real right to do.
In Ontario, where I reside, I liken the actions of companies to that of Landlords here who constantly include cluases in Leases that contravene the Tenant Protection Act.
For example it is not permitted for a Landlord to ask for post-dated cheques, or require the tenants sign an agreement that they will have no pets in their apartment, but these are very standard clauses that are still in the majority of Lease Agreements.
It is important to note that players who are paid to beta test a game are recieving consideration and so the NDA is a legally binding contract. Also if a gaming company agreed to pay every beta tester 1 cent for their accepting the NDA then the mutual consideration would be fulfilled and the agreement would be legally binding."
It's also worth noting that the EU has drastically different confidentiality laws than the US (why a lot of developers tend to run US-only betas, to avoid more legal hassle), such as the fact that long-term IP records are not kept, making it very hard to actually pin any charges like that on EU residents.
A company sueing a customer?
I'd like to see the "free" marketing that their competitors would grant them.
Personnally I would never break a NDA, however to think they would sue a "customer" or "potential customer" is frivolous, it is a wild and insane dream entertain by some sickos. When a hand feed you, you may DREAM about biting it, but you never go further than that, you don't even make this hand feel that you could just be dreaming about biting it, nope, not at all.
A company sueing an individual for NDA stuff would risk been sued back by bigger companies. Don't think for 1 moment that Microsoft would discard the idea of sueing an "evil" company who sued a customer, if it "help improve" the world, they would consider it. And if Microsoft wouldn't, there are plenty other companies out there that might. Is sueing an individual worth taking the risk of been sued by a company with the ressources to back it up? Nope.
A company is free to build or buy a list of peoples who respect NDA and of peoples who doesn't respect a NDA if they are not going to developp that list themselves for any reason. I see much too lose, nearly nothing to gain by sueing a "customer"...no matter how badly this customer behaves.
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
Whether or not the person broke the NDA is not the issue in a civil suit. The issues in a civil case have to do with linking the defendant's actions to a specific damage amount, and since this is almost impossible to prove in most cases of NDA violation, I think its highly unlikely that a successful civil case can be mounted against an NDA breaker.
__________________________
"Its sad when people use religion to feel superior, its even worse to see people using a video game to do it."
--Arcken
"...when it comes to pimping EVE I have little restraints."
--Hellmar, CEO of CCP.
"It's like they took a gun, put it to their nugget sack and pulled the trigger over and over again, each time telling us how great it was that they were shooting themselves in the balls."
--Exar_Kun on SWG's NGE