First of all, There has to be some kind of death penalty, even if it is only getting spawned 10miles away from where you were. Otherwise when you die, you just push the button, stand up, and pretend like nothing happend. So guys, stop saying there has to be totaly NO Death Penalty.
XP penalty isn't that bad as you guys are saying. This game is based on PvP, you'll even get XP for PvPing (at least I though). That will mean an xp penalty for dieing in PvP wouldn't be all that bad, if you first killed a couple of other guys...
Why no do something as they did in MxO, There when you died you would receive a 50% penalty on ALL your stats/skills, graduatly fading away over 10 minutes (I might have the numbers wrong, but it's been a long time...) Something like that is quite good, because then, dieing would matter in RvR..
I would agree completely with the death penalty being essential. But, I find that games that are two swayed either way (too severe of death penalty or to lenient) do two things:
-Too severe drives a lot of players away, because the game becomes irritating.
-Or too lenient the good people leave, because all the terrible people love it.
Basically my point is, I feel that it is crucial that the death penalty is a good mix between the two. The game is mostly PvP so it will be interesting to see what the do.
By the way anyone think that their website loads slow?
I would realy like to see some innovation in death penalties...Not Money, XP, and/or Time. "Corpse runs" are another aspect of death that I would hate to see in WAR.
WoW's death penalties in PvE are primarly a Loss of time and Money, corpse runs and repair costs. In WoW PvP(Battle grounds) you suffer no repair costs for your death and don't have to run back to your corpse...So your left with effectivly zero penalty for death. I don't think this is a good system, I don't like Either part of it.
In the Games i've played with experience loss, i never felt it worked out well. Between "losing levels" and Getting griefed while trying to level, it was a horrible penalty for death.
An idea rolling through my head is this:
Add a "Spirit meter". What the meter shows is how good you feel...and as a result how effective your charicter is. Cap it at 50% on the negative side and 150% on the positive side...As you live longer in combat(kill more people), you Gain effectivness...as you die you lose chunks of spirit(You feel worse about yourself after just getting stomped on). The meter would Slowly approach 100%(normal) over time as you spent time 'out of combat'.
Funny thing is, This sounds alot like what we already know about hammerers and iron breakers getting stronger the longer they are fighting...So maybe thats the death penalty? Ohh and No corpse runs
Originally posted by VideoXPG I agree with the idea of being a Healer in WoW. I always got into groups where people didn't care for aggro management and I usually died several times during an instance run with Pick-Up-Groups. Dying in general makes me upset, but most people didn't care and laregly didn't care if I died. Made is very frustrating.... Anything to discourage being killed is fine in my book.
I would think that as a healer you would want there to be as little DP as possible. Imagine how much complaining you will get as a healer when somebody in your group dies. In WoW it's an annoying repair bill and rebuff time. Just think if everybody you let die lost 5% of their level experience. That's just begging for drama. I sure as heck wouldn't risk going on PUG's if there was a chance I'd walk away with a lower level than I began with. I think having to endure bad groups is punishment enough.
Also, if things look bad and the priest draws aggro, I'll happily sacrafice myself to pull the aggro off the priest (when I'm on my rogue) - even if our chances for the group surviving don't look good. If there was a huge death penalty, I'll admit, I would be more selfish and might consider just saving myself instead of even trying. I don't think I'd be alone.
It seems to me that you should encourage the attitutde where the concern is for the group surviving, not the individual. Just my 2 cents.
No, this is not true. Coming purely from a WoW standpoint you have no idea what healers (and tanks to a degree) go through in WoW at the hands of stupid pug groups. Go browse the official priest forums and you will quickly come to appreciate the horror that is the typical pug.
Basically, a good healer runs with a pug only if they can't get a guild group or a group with people they already know. This is the main reason there's always 10,000 people standing around in IF/Org lfg for a healer. The healers are there (just check a census site) they just won't run with a random lfm-priest group.
In WoW I ran with my guild, and I had a list of people that I would run with. If I got invited to a group by someone on the list I went. I also had a (much longer) list of people I would *never* group with. Usually this meant they didn't go with the group since my stance was always "Take them or me" since I could get another group in less than 10 seconds most of the time.
Yes I was a dick about my groups but my groups were generally successful. As a druid healer it was doubly important I get into a competent group since I lacked many of the safety nets a priest has available to him/her. Once in a good group though there was nothing 5-man I couldn't do (even DM west without a warlock, did it more times than I could count gearing up for MC, thank you very much)
With an xp loss dp (for PvE deaths only (woot 50% flame resistance!)) people can't level up until they've proved they can handle the next higher difficulty increment. I think this would go a *long* way to solving PvE pug problems. Yes, healers would lose out along with their groups but most PvE-oriented healers are accustomed to keeping a blacklist anyway, so it wouldn't be as much an issue as you think.
All that said this is a PvP based game, I think PvP and PvE should have different penalties since said penalties are designed to discourage different things. PvP deaths should basically be like they were in DAOC, some minor equipment damage, rez sickness (even if you get rezzed, don't die next time, thanks), and respawning a helluva long way away if you release (which, in DAOC's keep-based battles gave the defenders time to fix their castle defenses).
Group wipes the healer is asked to release (take a exp hit) and come back to rez everyone else. That said I still like the DAoC orignal system fine. Die at lvl 40+ and you could lose 40mins plus of exping. No idiot ever got to cap. They ebayed or stopped playing.
Comments
XP penalty isn't that bad as you guys are saying. This game is based on PvP, you'll even get XP for PvPing (at least I though). That will mean an xp penalty for dieing in PvP wouldn't be all that bad, if you first killed a couple of other guys...
Why no do something as they did in MxO, There when you died you would receive a 50% penalty on ALL your stats/skills, graduatly fading away over 10 minutes (I might have the numbers wrong, but it's been a long time...) Something like that is quite good, because then, dieing would matter in RvR..
The Illuminati Gaming Society
I would agree completely with the death penalty being essential. But, I find that games that are two swayed either way (too severe of death penalty or to lenient) do two things:
-Too severe drives a lot of players away, because the game becomes irritating.
-Or too lenient the good people leave, because all the terrible people love it.
Basically my point is, I feel that it is crucial that the death penalty is a good mix between the two. The game is mostly PvP so it will be interesting to see what the do.
By the way anyone think that their website loads slow?
I would realy like to see some innovation in death penalties...Not Money, XP, and/or Time. "Corpse runs" are another aspect of death that I would hate to see in WAR.
WoW's death penalties in PvE are primarly a Loss of time and Money, corpse runs and repair costs. In WoW PvP(Battle grounds) you suffer no repair costs for your death and don't have to run back to your corpse...So your left with effectivly zero penalty for death. I don't think this is a good system, I don't like Either part of it.
In the Games i've played with experience loss, i never felt it worked out well. Between "losing levels" and Getting griefed while trying to level, it was a horrible penalty for death.
An idea rolling through my head is this:
Add a "Spirit meter". What the meter shows is how good you feel...and as a result how effective your charicter is. Cap it at 50% on the negative side and 150% on the positive side...As you live longer in combat(kill more people), you Gain effectivness...as you die you lose chunks of spirit(You feel worse about yourself after just getting stomped on). The meter would Slowly approach 100%(normal) over time as you spent time 'out of combat'.
Funny thing is, This sounds alot like what we already know about hammerers and iron breakers getting stronger the longer they are fighting...So maybe thats the death penalty? Ohh and No corpse runs
I would think that as a healer you would want there to be as little DP as possible. Imagine how much complaining you will get as a healer when somebody in your group dies. In WoW it's an annoying repair bill and rebuff time. Just think if everybody you let die lost 5% of their level experience. That's just begging for drama. I sure as heck wouldn't risk going on PUG's if there was a chance I'd walk away with a lower level than I began with. I think having to endure bad groups is punishment enough.
Also, if things look bad and the priest draws aggro, I'll happily sacrafice myself to pull the aggro off the priest (when I'm on my rogue) - even if our chances for the group surviving don't look good. If there was a huge death penalty, I'll admit, I would be more selfish and might consider just saving myself instead of even trying. I don't think I'd be alone.
It seems to me that you should encourage the attitutde where the concern is for the group surviving, not the individual. Just my 2 cents.
No, this is not true. Coming purely from a WoW standpoint you have no idea what healers (and tanks to a degree) go through in WoW at the hands of stupid pug groups. Go browse the official priest forums and you will quickly come to appreciate the horror that is the typical pug.
Basically, a good healer runs with a pug only if they can't get a guild group or a group with people they already know. This is the main reason there's always 10,000 people standing around in IF/Org lfg for a healer. The healers are there (just check a census site) they just won't run with a random lfm-priest group.
In WoW I ran with my guild, and I had a list of people that I would run with. If I got invited to a group by someone on the list I went. I also had a (much longer) list of people I would *never* group with. Usually this meant they didn't go with the group since my stance was always "Take them or me" since I could get another group in less than 10 seconds most of the time.
Yes I was a dick about my groups but my groups were generally successful. As a druid healer it was doubly important I get into a competent group since I lacked many of the safety nets a priest has available to him/her. Once in a good group though there was nothing 5-man I couldn't do (even DM west without a warlock, did it more times than I could count gearing up for MC, thank you very much)
With an xp loss dp (for PvE deaths only (woot 50% flame resistance!)) people can't level up until they've proved they can handle the next higher difficulty increment. I think this would go a *long* way to solving PvE pug problems. Yes, healers would lose out along with their groups but most PvE-oriented healers are accustomed to keeping a blacklist anyway, so it wouldn't be as much an issue as you think.
All that said this is a PvP based game, I think PvP and PvE should have different penalties since said penalties are designed to discourage different things. PvP deaths should basically be like they were in DAOC, some minor equipment damage, rez sickness (even if you get rezzed, don't die next time, thanks), and respawning a helluva long way away if you release (which, in DAOC's keep-based battles gave the defenders time to fix their castle defenses).
Group wipes the healer is asked to release (take a exp hit) and come back to rez everyone else. That said I still like the DAoC orignal system fine. Die at lvl 40+ and you could lose 40mins plus of exping. No idiot ever got to cap. They ebayed or stopped playing.