As I said previously in this post, if you have been pacified by society to the point that you cannot even vaguely understand hunting, then there is no argument I could make to convince you that there is nothing wrong with what you saw in that video. However, you guys watched the video with absolutely no concept of what hunting dangerous game entails. I do not mean that condescendingly, merely as a statement of your lack of knowledge. Just the overwhelming number of posters making comments which are nothing more than supposition or even pure fallacy leads me to believe true ignorace has left you with your beliefs. I honestly find that just as sad as "killing for fun."
Hohbein, although you can assume that the lion shot in the beginning was killed, if you watch the other (longer) copies of the video, you will see that it is the same lion.
Also, to the person talking about the area being a field, that is just the way South Africa looks. Long grass, bushes, and lone trees that typically all look like the boabab tree.
Originally posted by daeandor As I said previously in this post, if you have been pacified by society to the point that you cannot even vaguely understand hunting, then there is no argument I could make to convince you that there is nothing wrong with what you saw in that video. However, you guys watched the video with absolutely no concept of what hunting dangerous game entails. I do not mean that condescendingly, merely as a statement of your lack of knowledge. Just the overwhelming number of posters making comments which are nothing more than supposition or even pure fallacy leads me to believe true ignorace has left you with your beliefs. I honestly find that just as sad as "killing for fun."
Hohbein, although you can assume that the lion shot in the beginning was killed, if you watch the other (longer) copies of the video, you will see that it is the same lion.
Also, to the person talking about the area being a field, that is just the way South Africa looks. Long grass, bushes, and lone trees that typically all look like the boabab tree.
So why do you find that it's okay to hunt dangerous game?
ok now for my real opinion hunting in this day and age is not a sport unless you hunt with a bow and arrow. guns take the "sport" out of it.
although in actuallity theres no reason at all to hunt anymore. big game trophys are for people with "small ego" problems. the rate of which we kill of animals now just by growing into there habitats keeps them from getting back to a large population. so the whole population control issue is mute.
Oh, and Hohbein, as someone mentioned, if the video description is to believed that it is in South Africa, the only place a Lion would be getting hunted is on a private ranch. I am not going to try to explain the entire process since you don't care, but suffice to say a South African hunting ranch is much different than a ranch in Texas both in size and function. It is a business very closely monitored by the SA equivalent of Game Wardens / Forest Service.
Originally posted by Vertex1980 Originally posted by Billius8 I want to say that I believe there is a place for all of the world's animals -- on the table, right next to the mashed potatoes.
Your comment speaks more of you than me.
By the way, this Fall, I'll go hunting. My game stands a chance of evasion. Your game gets slaughtered with a 100% chance of dying, then gets wrapped in plastic wrap for you to pick up at the grocery store. You're probably chomping some of it down right now while you sit at your keyboard and act all sanctimonious.
Originally posted by Billius8 Originally posted by Vertex1980 Originally posted by Billius8 I want to say that I believe there is a place for all of the world's animals -- on the table, right next to the mashed potatoes.
Your comment speaks more of you than me.
By the way, this Fall, I'll go hunting. My game stands a chance of evasion. Your game gets slaughtered with a 100% chance of dying, then gets wrapped in plastic wrap for you to pick up at the grocery store. You're probably chomping some of it down right now while you sit at your keyboard and act all sanctimonious.
Hypocrite.
....
Sorry, I don't kill defenseless creatures to get my rocks off. And no, I was actually eatting some fruit when I was writting that. And you too probably go to the store and chomp on some burgers too, so don't play this one sided game with me.
You make it sound like you hunt every day to survive. So please, hypocrite, stop being a flamming troll.
If you gave me a gun and some time to setup a little camp in a tree, of course I could kill something, who couldn't?
Originally posted by Vertex1980 So why do you find that it's okay to hunt dangerous game?
Long story short. When allowed to hunt the more dangerous game on the planet, there actually is a skill involved in it and the animals have a fighting chance. IMO trophy hunting should be done in this manner. My point previously has been that the argument "the animal has no chance" is false. Notice also that I was very picky about saying that at least the hunter in the video was doing it the "right way" IMO. On foot, without bait, and in a position easily seen by the lion. Anyone with a decent aim, good rifle, and good professional hunter can get in a Land Rover and drive up to an animal and shoot it, and that happens all the time. Lions are often hunted by bait with the hunter in a blind like duck hunters in a field. I do not agree with that type of hunting.
The reality is that I am nitpicking like many of you are saying, "with a bow and a knife." However, since I have actually hunted dangerous game, I know that using a bow and a knife would likely end up with you dead regardless of how good you were, unless you used the blind and bait method.
Lastly, I also hunt game in the US which is obviously not dangerous, however my family does not buy meat at the store for the year if we have a good hunting season. And for the record, unless you eat the meat in Africa, none of the meat from animals overseas can be imported into the US.
Originally posted by Billius8 Originally posted by Vertex1980 Originally posted by Billius8 I want to say that I believe there is a place for all of the world's animals -- on the table, right next to the mashed potatoes.
Your comment speaks more of you than me.
By the way, this Fall, I'll go hunting. My game stands a chance of evasion. Your game gets slaughtered with a 100% chance of dying, then gets wrapped in plastic wrap for you to pick up at the grocery store. You're probably chomping some of it down right now while you sit at your keyboard and act all sanctimonious.
Hypocrite.
You are an idiot, most of us are mad because the lion is not killed for food but killed for sport and I have nothing against hunting animals for food and certain animals at that. Personaly I think its disrespect to hunt a lion because its a predator not prey and hunting animals like deer,buffalo and other edible animals is ok as long as the animal is used for food. Canada is filled with lots of outdoor hunting but all game is food, and only can be hunted in season.
Originally posted by daeandor Originally posted by Vertex1980 So why do you find that it's okay to hunt dangerous game?
Long story short. When allowed to hunt the more dangerous game on the planet, there actually is a skill involved in it and the animals have a fighting chance. IMO trophy hunting should be done in this manner. My point previously has been that the argument "the animal has no chance" is false. Notice also that I was very picky about saying that at least the hunter in the video was doing it the "right way" IMO. On foot, without bait, and in a position easily seen by the lion. Anyone with a decent aim, good rifle, and good professional hunter can get in a Land Rover and drive up to an animal and shoot it, and that happens all the time. Lions are often hunted by bait with the hunter in a blind like duck hunters in a field. I do not agree with that type of hunting.
The reality is that I am nitpicking like many of you are saying, "with a bow and a knife." However, since I have actually hunted dangerous game, I know that using a bow and a knife would likely end up with you dead regardless of how good you were, unless you used the blind and bait method.
Lastly, I also hunt game in the US which is obviously not dangerous, however my family does not buy meat at the store for the year if we have a good hunting season. And for the record, unless you eat the meat in Africa, none of the meat from animals overseas can be imported into the US.
There is alot of skill involved in real war to so I guess thats why countries sparaticly go at it sorta like a hunting expedition? Just because it takes a little skill to track and kill a dangerous animal doesnt make it right imo and since there is so many people we must do all we can to leave the eco-system in tact. 1 hunter would never do damage but in a population of 6 billion+ where I assume over a few million hunt game world wide can devastate wildlife and is it really worth it for a trophy? The funny thing I would have actualy been happy to see the lion rip then all apart and get away scott free because they invaded his domain. Also I seen someone say the lion in OP's vid got away and I didnt see it get away it looked like he was hit with a final rifle shot and u could see his blurred body?
Originally posted by Hohbein Originally posted by fizzle322 I dont know what area that was in.
If it was a human populated area, then yeah lions and other animals have to be curtailed. lace where humans and animals mix, then the dangerous animals have to be killed off.
You aint gonna let that thing hang out in your backyard. Its a wild animal, it could ambush you one day for food.
Notice the vegetation.
That area kind of looked like it was somebody's field for growing produce.
I definitely don't believe in hunting animals just for their tusks and pleasure. But if its a place where animals and humans mix, then killing the dangerous animals is a necessity.
But even then, what exactly gives us the right to state another animal doesn't 'belong' somewhere? It's such an increadibly unnatural way to live. If the lion can eat you and your family, and you can't kill it fairly, then I say move away or get eaten, simple as.
Humanity really really pisses me off when it judges other creatures unfit to inhabbit the same areas, we try to alter nature for our own convenience, which in turn causes massive problems.
For instance, 'controlling' the numbers of animals actually completely disrupts the equillibrium of nature. If the lions were left to their own devices, their numbers would even out naturally when the population of lions met the supply of food. By killing them unnaturally, we introduce a false sense of equillibrium, which is why the animals continue to breed and continue to overpopulate certain areas. If we simply LEFT things alone for a few decades, there would never be a need to 'control' their numbers. Unfortunately we humans tend to be increadibly selfish, we like to make things 'convenient' for ourselves, more so than any other animal out there.
The world would certainly be a better place if it werent for us, that's for sure!
----------------------
Everything man does is natural.
Our weapon and armor is our brain. We make tools. Spears, swords, shields, guns, bombs.
We ARE the top predator. Not only do we eat meat, not only can we kill it, we can stop at any restaurant and have a big sizzling piece of any animal we want.
Lions going after Cape Buffalo isn't exactly "fair."
Nature isn't fair, nature is harsh and we are members of nature.
Just like the lion killing the buffalo, man kills the lion, because we are a better predator.
I'm just an animal like every other animal. They have claws and fangs and tough skin, I have a big head full of ideas, and 10 very nimble fingers that can craft tools and machines. Thats what nature gave me. It also gave me the ability to communicate very complex ideas, just like I'm able to communicate to you.
Originally posted by Slickinfinit There is alot of skill involved in real war to so I guess thats why countries sparaticly go at it sorta like a hunting expedition? Just because it takes a little skill to track and kill a dangerous animal doesnt make it right imo and since there is so many people we must do all we can to leave the eco-system in tact. 1 hunter would never do damage but in a population of 6 billion+ where I assume over a few million hunt game world wide can devastate wildlife and is it really worth it for a trophy? The funny thing I would have actualy been happy to see the lion rip then all apart and get away scott free because they invaded his domain.
War is not trophy hunting. I was not trying to convince you that trophy hunting is morally right any more than I was saying war is morally right. You are assuming on the numbers, but the reality is that where regulated, the impact of trophy hunting is negligible compaired to urban sprawl and deforestation. As a side note, in 2000, over 45 billion animals (excluding fish which are expressed in tons harvested) were slaughtered for food globally.
As a second note, I stated I have never hunted lion, and primarily that is because there actually is evidence that lion prides are damaged at the loss of alpha males. Most other lions taken as trophies are actually bred in captivity and released in order to alleviate this problem. I am not a fan of hunting bred and released game from lion down to birds.
I think Billius hit it on the nose. Due to the fact I eat meat I have to decide under which conditions I kill it. Basically it boils down to whether or not I want to allow the animal a productive life or not. Generally speaking a farmed animal is highly harmful to its surroundings. THey produce concentrated pollutants and are sometimes conditionally inhibited. In anycase I can allow natrue to produce my meat and then procure some for my consumption without damaging a natural and balanced enviroment. Thru proper management forest land can produce massive amounts of safe and sustainable meat. Whereas a farm is far from enviromentally sustatinable. In anycase when you go to a butcher house and see how they ram a 10 inch pin into a bulls brain with a machine.. its far from painless. Ive yet to see a instant death. With a rifle and a little skill Ive yet to not drop one in one shot. Hunting IS NOT for the skillless. Nothing irks me more then a kid with bad aim.. hell i fear for my own life lol.
Cowards? What animal doesnt hunt with all the weaponry it has at its disposal? Albeit in nature its balanced thru alot of checks and balances. Bows are quite a intresting method of hunting. We the human animal have no real natural weapon except for our brains. Claws are replaced by our capacity to manipulate objects. We simply are using more refined spears and bows when we use a gun. Is it a unfair advantage? Perhaps. I for one much prefer a rifle over a bow due to the fact I can kill much more efficently and that after all is the goal of hunting. To be the consumer, not the consumed. The same as any animal. Were realy the first animal able to deny ourselves our full capacity. Perhaps for the best of all. For indeed we have world killers. This is the quaggmire we live in.
Originally posted by Techleo Cowards? What animal doesnt hunt with all the weaponry it has at its disposal? Albeit in nature its balanced thru alot of checks and balances. Bows are quite a intresting method of hunting. We the human animal have no real natural weapon except for our brains. Claws are replaced by our capacity to manipulate objects. We simply are using more refined spears and bows when we use a gun. Is it a unfair advantage? Perhaps. I for one much prefer a rifle over a bow due to the fact I can kill much more efficently and that after all is the goal of hunting. To be the consumer, not the consumed. The same as any animal. Were realy the first animal able to deny ourselves our full capacity. Perhaps for the best of all. For indeed we have world killers. This is the quaggmire we live in.
So why not just bring some gernades, which are better versions of rocks. And maybe a fully automatic assault rifle. Just because we're more evolved then say... a lion.
So why not just bring some gernades, which are better versions of rocks. And maybe a fully automatic assault rifle. Just because we're more evolved then say... a lion.
Actually, why not use a laser guided bomb? In all seriousness though, the reason you use a hunting rifle for hunting is, theoretically, so you can make one precise shot to instantly kill with minimal impact to the surrounding environment. But you see, that is where you fail to understand that there is a difference between hunting and massacring. A hunter uses the minimal force necessary to obtain the above results. There are many more effective means of killing animals at the greatest rate, however that is not the point of hunting. Efficiently taking a single animal is.
I think he was just being facetious Daeandor. The use pin's to kill the cows in some butcheries because its cuts the brain off from the rest of the body. The cows spine is effectively severed. This allows for the animal to die without it sending a nervous response causing rigor of the muscles. This makes for some tough meat. There are butcheries which use many other methods. Some butcheries use guns. Others bleed out the animals.
The intresting thing is when I hunt I can decide to let a animal go. When you buy beef or any farmed animal they generally take no account of the mother and child bond. Generally the young cow is called veal... which I dont eat veal bleh. Personally I persist upon Venision, elk, avians of various sorts, fish from the river and oceans. I do buy cattle though. If I buy beef I buy home grown beef. Which generally is free range. But I have my qualms with that. Freedom is paramount to me.
Originally posted by daeandor As I said previously in this post, if you have been pacified by society to the point that you cannot even vaguely understand hunting, then there is no argument I could make to convince you that there is nothing wrong with what you saw in that video.
To say i've been 'pacified' by society isn't exactly accurate. I hate much of society today BECAUSE it's become so passive. However, to say it's 'normal' or 'natural' to actually have the urge to kill an animal, for absolutely NO good reason would make you mentally ill in my eyes. In fact i'd say anybody that can bring themselves to do so is teatering on the edge of sanity.
Does it not seem like a waste of life, to you? That lion had probably lived 15 gruelling years within the african plains, dodging starvation, fighting to stay alive... Every day had been a struggle.. All that effort for what? For some moron with a small penis complex to come along and shoot him dead in the name of 'fun'?
I'm far, far from a hippy. But I can show compassion, and more importantly respect for the other creatures that inhabbit this world with me. I wouldn't kill a spider, or even a fly, because I simply don't have the right to do so. Nobody has the right to kill any animal in the name of 'fun'.
You make a very good argument Hohbein. Wanting to kill just for sport is very questionable. Its one thing to hunt for consumption. To kill for the thrill to kill is very diffrent. When I kill a animal theres little or no animal response. I simply have the satisfaction I have procured a peice of meat which did not detract from the world condition. Whereas if I ate a farmed animal I would have. Hunting of predatory prey, especially among mammals is questionable at best. There the guardians and protectors of the woods. They keep the herbivores in balance. Mind you if the enviroment were to be artifically unbalanced by human action, like say putting a freeway thru a forest. It is often necessary to wait for the predators to die of lack of food from loss of habitat, or to cull there populations. You need to ask when development is to much and the enviorment cant sustain us and at what point and thru which means shall we control ourselves? These are questions our species has yet to overcome effectively.
You do though have the right to kill prey to consume and to protect. All animals have this right under most idealisms. To kill just to kill though in almost all idealism is simply murder.
daendor (sp?) sorry. anyways war is not trophy hunting?? what world do you live in??? its one big cock fight to say them or us are better. there is no way you can defend war saying its nothing else. sure in the process we may save some innocent people but thats it. when more civilians out number goverment all over the world i say let the people rise up change stuff and fight for themselves.
now onto hunting so the africans that actually hunted lions many years ago with spears and bows where wrong?? im sorry but if you need a gun to kill a deer, lion, or whatever you need to look in the mirror and see whats wrong with you first.
Originally posted by Hohbein Originally posted by daeandor As I said previously in this post, if you have been pacified by society to the point that you cannot even vaguely understand hunting, then there is no argument I could make to convince you that there is nothing wrong with what you saw in that video.
To say i've been 'pacified' by society isn't exactly accurate. I hate much of society today BECAUSE it's become so passive. However, to say it's 'normal' or 'natural' to actually have the urge to kill an animal, for absolutely NO good reason would make you mentally ill in my eyes. In fact i'd say anybody that can bring themselves to do so is teatering on the edge of sanity.
Does it not seem like a waste of life, to you? That lion had probably lived 15 gruelling years within the african plains, dodging starvation, fighting to stay alive... Every day had been a struggle.. All that effort for what? For some moron with a small penis complex to come along and shoot him dead in the name of 'fun'?
I'm far, far from a hippy. But I can show compassion, and more importantly respect for the other creatures that inhabbit this world with me. I wouldn't kill a spider, or even a fly, because I simply don't have the right to do so. Nobody has the right to kill any animal in the name of 'fun'.
Like I have said three times now, you have exhibited that you are not willing to understand, therefore there still is nothing I could do to convince you. I said before that I did not mean that quote above as condescending, but yet you are condescending and derogatory to me. I am fully capable of compassion, but there is no way to 'prove' it to you. Essentially you are implying that I am subhuman by participating in trophy hunts. Yet, I am wondering how many selfish acts you participate in that result in similar deaths to creatures. Don't be so quick to judge. Nearly all of our activites as modern humans destroy land and habitat for animals. I at least know when I have killed one extra animal and have the stones to admit it in a society which frowns on acting human.
Comments
HUNT MY KIN I HUNT YOU!!!!!!!!!!
that is all no go talk about those homosexuals from nsync.. lol
As I said previously in this post, if you have been pacified by society to the point that you cannot even vaguely understand hunting, then there is no argument I could make to convince you that there is nothing wrong with what you saw in that video. However, you guys watched the video with absolutely no concept of what hunting dangerous game entails. I do not mean that condescendingly, merely as a statement of your lack of knowledge. Just the overwhelming number of posters making comments which are nothing more than supposition or even pure fallacy leads me to believe true ignorace has left you with your beliefs. I honestly find that just as sad as "killing for fun."
Hohbein, although you can assume that the lion shot in the beginning was killed, if you watch the other (longer) copies of the video, you will see that it is the same lion.
Also, to the person talking about the area being a field, that is just the way South Africa looks. Long grass, bushes, and lone trees that typically all look like the boabab tree.
ok now for my real opinion hunting in this day and age is not a sport unless you hunt with a bow and arrow. guns take the "sport" out of it.
although in actuallity theres no reason at all to hunt anymore. big game trophys are for people with "small ego" problems. the rate of which we kill of animals now just by growing into there habitats keeps them from getting back to a large population. so the whole population control issue is mute.
Oh, and Hohbein, as someone mentioned, if the video description is to believed that it is in South Africa, the only place a Lion would be getting hunted is on a private ranch. I am not going to try to explain the entire process since you don't care, but suffice to say a South African hunting ranch is much different than a ranch in Texas both in size and function. It is a business very closely monitored by the SA equivalent of Game Wardens / Forest Service.
Your comment speaks more of you than me.
By the way, this Fall, I'll go hunting. My game stands a chance of evasion. Your game gets slaughtered with a 100% chance of dying, then gets wrapped in plastic wrap for you to pick up at the grocery store. You're probably chomping some of it down right now while you sit at your keyboard and act all sanctimonious.
Hypocrite.
Your comment speaks more of you than me.
By the way, this Fall, I'll go hunting. My game stands a chance of evasion. Your game gets slaughtered with a 100% chance of dying, then gets wrapped in plastic wrap for you to pick up at the grocery store. You're probably chomping some of it down right now while you sit at your keyboard and act all sanctimonious.
Hypocrite.
....
Sorry, I don't kill defenseless creatures to get my rocks off. And no, I was actually eatting some fruit when I was writting that. And you too probably go to the store and chomp on some burgers too, so don't play this one sided game with me.
You make it sound like you hunt every day to survive. So please, hypocrite, stop being a flamming troll.
If you gave me a gun and some time to setup a little camp in a tree, of course I could kill something, who couldn't?
Long story short. When allowed to hunt the more dangerous game on the planet, there actually is a skill involved in it and the animals have a fighting chance. IMO trophy hunting should be done in this manner. My point previously has been that the argument "the animal has no chance" is false. Notice also that I was very picky about saying that at least the hunter in the video was doing it the "right way" IMO. On foot, without bait, and in a position easily seen by the lion. Anyone with a decent aim, good rifle, and good professional hunter can get in a Land Rover and drive up to an animal and shoot it, and that happens all the time. Lions are often hunted by bait with the hunter in a blind like duck hunters in a field. I do not agree with that type of hunting.
The reality is that I am nitpicking like many of you are saying, "with a bow and a knife." However, since I have actually hunted dangerous game, I know that using a bow and a knife would likely end up with you dead regardless of how good you were, unless you used the blind and bait method.
Lastly, I also hunt game in the US which is obviously not dangerous, however my family does not buy meat at the store for the year if we have a good hunting season. And for the record, unless you eat the meat in Africa, none of the meat from animals overseas can be imported into the US.
Your comment speaks more of you than me.
By the way, this Fall, I'll go hunting. My game stands a chance of evasion. Your game gets slaughtered with a 100% chance of dying, then gets wrapped in plastic wrap for you to pick up at the grocery store. You're probably chomping some of it down right now while you sit at your keyboard and act all sanctimonious.
Hypocrite.
You are an idiot, most of us are mad because the lion is not killed for food but killed for sport and I have nothing against hunting animals for food and certain animals at that. Personaly I think its disrespect to hunt a lion because its a predator not prey and hunting animals like deer,buffalo and other edible animals is ok as long as the animal is used for food. Canada is filled with lots of outdoor hunting but all game is food, and only can be hunted in season.
{(RIP)} SWG
Long story short. When allowed to hunt the more dangerous game on the planet, there actually is a skill involved in it and the animals have a fighting chance. IMO trophy hunting should be done in this manner. My point previously has been that the argument "the animal has no chance" is false. Notice also that I was very picky about saying that at least the hunter in the video was doing it the "right way" IMO. On foot, without bait, and in a position easily seen by the lion. Anyone with a decent aim, good rifle, and good professional hunter can get in a Land Rover and drive up to an animal and shoot it, and that happens all the time. Lions are often hunted by bait with the hunter in a blind like duck hunters in a field. I do not agree with that type of hunting.
The reality is that I am nitpicking like many of you are saying, "with a bow and a knife." However, since I have actually hunted dangerous game, I know that using a bow and a knife would likely end up with you dead regardless of how good you were, unless you used the blind and bait method.
Lastly, I also hunt game in the US which is obviously not dangerous, however my family does not buy meat at the store for the year if we have a good hunting season. And for the record, unless you eat the meat in Africa, none of the meat from animals overseas can be imported into the US.
There is alot of skill involved in real war to so I guess thats why countries sparaticly go at it sorta like a hunting expedition? Just because it takes a little skill to track and kill a dangerous animal doesnt make it right imo and since there is so many people we must do all we can to leave the eco-system in tact. 1 hunter would never do damage but in a population of 6 billion+ where I assume over a few million hunt game world wide can devastate wildlife and is it really worth it for a trophy? The funny thing I would have actualy been happy to see the lion rip then all apart and get away scott free because they invaded his domain. Also I seen someone say the lion in OP's vid got away and I didnt see it get away it looked like he was hit with a final rifle shot and u could see his blurred body?
{(RIP)} SWG
Humanity really really pisses me off when it judges other creatures unfit to inhabbit the same areas, we try to alter nature for our own convenience, which in turn causes massive problems.
For instance, 'controlling' the numbers of animals actually completely disrupts the equillibrium of nature. If the lions were left to their own devices, their numbers would even out naturally when the population of lions met the supply of food. By killing them unnaturally, we introduce a false sense of equillibrium, which is why the animals continue to breed and continue to overpopulate certain areas. If we simply LEFT things alone for a few decades, there would never be a need to 'control' their numbers. Unfortunately we humans tend to be increadibly selfish, we like to make things 'convenient' for ourselves, more so than any other animal out there.
The world would certainly be a better place if it werent for us, that's for sure!
----------------------
Everything man does is natural.
Our weapon and armor is our brain. We make tools. Spears, swords, shields, guns, bombs.
We ARE the top predator. Not only do we eat meat, not only can we kill it, we can stop at any restaurant and have a big sizzling piece of any animal we want.
Lions going after Cape Buffalo isn't exactly "fair."
Nature isn't fair, nature is harsh and we are members of nature.
Just like the lion killing the buffalo, man kills the lion, because we are a better predator.
I'm just an animal like every other animal. They have claws and fangs and tough skin, I have a big head full of ideas, and 10 very nimble fingers that can craft tools and machines. Thats what nature gave me. It also gave me the ability to communicate very complex ideas, just like I'm able to communicate to you.
War is not trophy hunting. I was not trying to convince you that trophy hunting is morally right any more than I was saying war is morally right. You are assuming on the numbers, but the reality is that where regulated, the impact of trophy hunting is negligible compaired to urban sprawl and deforestation. As a side note, in 2000, over 45 billion animals (excluding fish which are expressed in tons harvested) were slaughtered for food globally.
As a second note, I stated I have never hunted lion, and primarily that is because there actually is evidence that lion prides are damaged at the loss of alpha males. Most other lions taken as trophies are actually bred in captivity and released in order to alleviate this problem. I am not a fan of hunting bred and released game from lion down to birds.
*Edit*
I don't feel like getting banned.
I think Billius hit it on the nose. Due to the fact I eat meat I have to decide under which conditions I kill it. Basically it boils down to whether or not I want to allow the animal a productive life or not. Generally speaking a farmed animal is highly harmful to its surroundings. THey produce concentrated pollutants and are sometimes conditionally inhibited. In anycase I can allow natrue to produce my meat and then procure some for my consumption without damaging a natural and balanced enviroment. Thru proper management forest land can produce massive amounts of safe and sustainable meat. Whereas a farm is far from enviromentally sustatinable. In anycase when you go to a butcher house and see how they ram a 10 inch pin into a bulls brain with a machine.. its far from painless. Ive yet to see a instant death. With a rifle and a little skill Ive yet to not drop one in one shot. Hunting IS NOT for the skillless. Nothing irks me more then a kid with bad aim.. hell i fear for my own life lol.
Actually, why not use a laser guided bomb? In all seriousness though, the reason you use a hunting rifle for hunting is, theoretically, so you can make one precise shot to instantly kill with minimal impact to the surrounding environment. But you see, that is where you fail to understand that there is a difference between hunting and massacring. A hunter uses the minimal force necessary to obtain the above results. There are many more effective means of killing animals at the greatest rate, however that is not the point of hunting. Efficiently taking a single animal is.
The intresting thing is when I hunt I can decide to let a animal go. When you buy beef or any farmed animal they generally take no account of the mother and child bond. Generally the young cow is called veal... which I dont eat veal bleh. Personally I persist upon Venision, elk, avians of various sorts, fish from the river and oceans. I do buy cattle though. If I buy beef I buy home grown beef. Which generally is free range. But I have my qualms with that. Freedom is paramount to me.
Does it not seem like a waste of life, to you? That lion had probably lived 15 gruelling years within the african plains, dodging starvation, fighting to stay alive... Every day had been a struggle.. All that effort for what? For some moron with a small penis complex to come along and shoot him dead in the name of 'fun'?
I'm far, far from a hippy. But I can show compassion, and more importantly respect for the other creatures that inhabbit this world with me. I wouldn't kill a spider, or even a fly, because I simply don't have the right to do so. Nobody has the right to kill any animal in the name of 'fun'.
You make a very good argument Hohbein. Wanting to kill just for sport is very questionable. Its one thing to hunt for consumption. To kill for the thrill to kill is very diffrent. When I kill a animal theres little or no animal response. I simply have the satisfaction I have procured a peice of meat which did not detract from the world condition. Whereas if I ate a farmed animal I would have. Hunting of predatory prey, especially among mammals is questionable at best. There the guardians and protectors of the woods. They keep the herbivores in balance. Mind you if the enviroment were to be artifically unbalanced by human action, like say putting a freeway thru a forest. It is often necessary to wait for the predators to die of lack of food from loss of habitat, or to cull there populations. You need to ask when development is to much and the enviorment cant sustain us and at what point and thru which means shall we control ourselves? These are questions our species has yet to overcome effectively.
You do though have the right to kill prey to consume and to protect. All animals have this right under most idealisms. To kill just to kill though in almost all idealism is simply murder.
daendor (sp?) sorry. anyways war is not trophy hunting?? what world do you live in??? its one big cock fight to say them or us are better. there is no way you can defend war saying its nothing else. sure in the process we may save some innocent people but thats it. when more civilians out number goverment all over the world i say let the people rise up change stuff and fight for themselves.
now onto hunting so the africans that actually hunted lions many years ago with spears and bows where wrong?? im sorry but if you need a gun to kill a deer, lion, or whatever you need to look in the mirror and see whats wrong with you first.
everybody needs to listen to ted nugent talk about hunting. it's a religious experience
Does it not seem like a waste of life, to you? That lion had probably lived 15 gruelling years within the african plains, dodging starvation, fighting to stay alive... Every day had been a struggle.. All that effort for what? For some moron with a small penis complex to come along and shoot him dead in the name of 'fun'?
I'm far, far from a hippy. But I can show compassion, and more importantly respect for the other creatures that inhabbit this world with me. I wouldn't kill a spider, or even a fly, because I simply don't have the right to do so. Nobody has the right to kill any animal in the name of 'fun'.
Like I have said three times now, you have exhibited that you are not willing to understand, therefore there still is nothing I could do to convince you. I said before that I did not mean that quote above as condescending, but yet you are condescending and derogatory to me. I am fully capable of compassion, but there is no way to 'prove' it to you. Essentially you are implying that I am subhuman by participating in trophy hunts. Yet, I am wondering how many selfish acts you participate in that result in similar deaths to creatures. Don't be so quick to judge. Nearly all of our activites as modern humans destroy land and habitat for animals. I at least know when I have killed one extra animal and have the stones to admit it in a society which frowns on acting human.