I had no idea I was doing anything wrong. In fact I had no idea what I was doint at all as I was (and still am) a noob. I was therefore banned due to a misunderstanding and had to dig for 48 hours to find out why.
well, you cant blame anybody for your own misinformation, right? why did you do something you didnt understand?
anyway. imagine it had been the other way, you know nothing about the game, and you see a shiny Rocket BPO for sale on scrow fro only 100k, and hey, its already researched. you know you can get scammed, so you look at everything you can, you look the info on the item, the stats, and yes, you are sure, it is a BPO. "buy"
great, 5 seconds later you feel worse than ever on your 20 days playing EVE. you have been scammed, but you are sure you did anything that was in your hand. in fact, the info on the item said "BPO" but now you have a BPC. how can CCP let this happen without doing anything to the scammer?
I am sure the definition of a scam would contain the word "deliberate" in it somewhere and I feel I have proven this was not deliberate. Foolish perhaps. Noobish without a doubt.
I am not blaming anyone for the misunderstanding. There is no doubt I got it wrong but I think I was treated rather harshly.
As for doing things I do not understand. Take a look at Rookie Help and see how many players are doing things they do not understand. Shall we have the GM's keep and eye on them all? They might make a mistake that irritates another player and should therefore be banned without explanation.
As I said earlier. Huge learning curve + draconian rules do not work well together.
BTW what do you mean by researched? I am a noob remember. I know you can research blueprints but I thought this just means that you can manufacture better things or improve output. I did not realise that you can make blueprints of the better things and sell the blueprints. I thought the issue above was whether the blueprint was Original or a Copy. I bought the original on the market for about 140,000 ISK. I thought selling two for 100,000 was a bargain and not a scam.
It would now be a good point for someone to tell me the difference in value between a BPO and a BPC as other than one is Original and the Other a Copy. My maths on the above indicate that the most I could have conned someone for was 40,000 per blueprint. Original cost me 140,000. Copy placed on Escrow for 100,000 = 40,000 difference.
So how come there is all this fuss? The blueprint for the missile that cost me 140,000 was an original therefore BPO. Is that correct?
The 15 copies I made were therefore BPC's. Is that correct?
What can you do with an original that you cannot do with a copy?
I still have 13 copies left as I only put 2 on escrow as I was unsure and didn't know what I was doing (careful noob). What are the market value of these? What else can I use them for? I was going to do time research and mineral research with some but there was nowhere available at that time.
Tell you what. If a GM can point out to me who (if anyone) was inconvenienced by this I will hand over all the ISK in my bank in the way of compensation to those harmed by my noobish ness. Its only about 8.9 million but it is all the cash I have in the bank.
That would make me feel better - of course I will double check the identity of the GM and the money will be passed to the GM they can forward it to the player so I do not have to know who it is.
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Originally posted by chriswsm I am sure the definition of a scam would contain the word "deliberate" in it somewhere and I feel I have proven this was not deliberate. Foolish perhaps. Noobish without a doubt. I am not blaming anyone for the misunderstanding. There is no doubt I got it wrong but I think I was treated rather harshly. As for doing things I do not understand. Take a look at Rookie Help and see how many players are doing things they do not understand. Shall we have the GM's keep and eye on them all? They might make a mistake that irritates another player and should therefore be banned without explanation. As I said earlier. Huge learning curve + draconian rules do not work well together.
BTW what do you mean by researched? I am a noob remember. I know you can research blueprints but I thought this just means that you can manufacture better things. I did not realise that you can make blueprints of the better things and sell the blueprints. I thought the issue above was whether the blueprint was Original or a Copy. I bought the original on the market for about 140,000 ISK. I thought selling two for 100,000 was a bargain and not a scam. It would now be a good point for someone to tell me the difference in value between a BPO and a BPC as other than one is Original and the Other a Copy. My maths on the above indicate that the most I could have conned someone for was 40,000 per blueprint. Original cost me 140,000. Copy placed on Escrow for 100,000 = 40,000 difference. So how come there is all this fuss? The blueprint for the missile that cost me 140,000 was an original therefore BPO. Is that correct? The 15 copies I made were therefore BPC's. Is that correct? I still have 13 copies left as I only put 2 on escrow as I was unsure and didn't know what I was doing (careful noob). What are the market value of these? What else can I use them for? I was going to do time research and mineral research with some but there was nowhere available at that time.
Tell you what. If a GM can point out to me who (if anyone) was inconvenienced by this I will hand over all the ISK in my bank in the way of compensation to those harmed by my noobish ness. Its only about 8.9 million but it is all the cash I have in the bank. That would make me feel better - of course I will double check the identity of the GM and the money will be passed to the GM they can forward it to the player so I do not have to know who it is.
well, i think that this BPC bug was announced on the ingame news, which anybody should read. but anyway, as you should know, one of the principles of law is that not knowing the law does not eximit anybody from its consecuences. you may not know that practicing oral sex on a public area is a crime, but if a cop finds you on action you will get arrested. "hey, it was my first time... i just didnt know...i didnt harm anybody..." less you will get is a fine.
there were many dev posts on the forums about this subject, and the ingame news item. yet you still offered a BPC as a BPO on the scrow. what should a GM do?
I would also like to say that 100k is about the price for a BPO of a light flameburst missile, it is possible that a player might have reported the high price and complained about it (its possible ive seen it before). Is it possible that a player who didnt like you reported you for having high prices?
it is also possible when you checked the price on BPCs you accidently saw the price on BPOs and posted the price near them.
Originally posted by ssstupido well, i think that this BPC bug was announced on the ingame news, which anybody should read. but anyway, as you should know, one of the principles of law is that not knowing the law does not eximit anybody from its consecuences. you may not know that practicing oral sex on a public area is a crime, but if a cop finds you on action you will get arrested. "hey, it was my first time... i just didnt know...i didnt harm anybody..." less you will get is a fine. there were many dev posts on the forums about this subject, and the ingame news item. yet you still offered a BPC as a BPO on the scrow. what should a GM do?
As I mentioned above I did not know what a BPC and BPO was at the time I did that. If the ingame announcement mentioned BPC and BPO and I as a newbie did not know what those abbreviations meant then I am not going to understand the message. If however the message says BLUEPRINT ORIGINAL and BLUEPRINT COPY then I should of understood that as I did copy some blueprints. However blueprints seem to look the same in your hanger if they are copies or originals.
So if the report says BPC aand BPO then is CCP's is being unprofessional for expecting everyone to have memorised the game glossery. Professional documentation is abbreviation free. Its a basic rule of good business.
If they used the full explanation then I have to admit fault for not reading it properly. I just tried to check but I cannot access that part of the eve website while my account is banned.
To use your above example if the law says OSIP is against the law it is assumed that everyone automatically knows that it is an abbreviation of Oral Sex In Public. So who is to blame if someone does not know what that stands for (its not a great example as there is no ISK gain exploit for oral sex in public that I know of, then again I am a noob).
My biggest gripe about this is that I took 2 days and 2 emails to non obvious email addresses before I was even told what I was banned for. I feel that any ban at any time should carry additional details to explain the offence. I have never been banned or even received a warning in any other game therefore I have nothing to compare this experience to and I have played/beta tested 6 other MMORPGS in the last 8 years.
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Originally posted by zunstree I would also like to say that 100k is about the price for a BPO of a light flameburst missile, it is possible that a player might have reported the high price and complained about it (its possible ive seen it before). Is it possible that a player who didnt like you reported you for having high prices?
it is also possible when you checked the price on BPCs you accidently saw the price on BPOs and posted the price near them.
Damn! I was really stung when I paid 140,000 for one then
So what is a BPC of a light flameburst missile worth then? How much ISK is all this stress and trouble really worth?
And what is the functional difference between BPO and BPC? What can a BPO do that a BPC cannot do?
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I think they could have handled (ccp) the ban better, If somebody is penalized they should be instantly informed why, it should be part of the banning process. Good communication can make all the difference, being left to "stew" over such a minor thing is unfair.
As to the specific reason why the OP commited the offense, I sympathise with you for being punished for your lack of knowledge, it was a tough break, but in a way I hope it actually makes you feel better about CCP that they do take scamming seriously.
Originally posted by chriswsm Originally posted by zunstree I would also like to say that 100k is about the price for a BPO of a light flameburst missile, it is possible that a player might have reported the high price and complained about it (its possible ive seen it before). Is it possible that a player who didnt like you reported you for having high prices?
it is also possible when you checked the price on BPCs you accidently saw the price on BPOs and posted the price near them.
Damn! I was really stung when I paid 140,000 for one then
So what is a BPC of a light flameburst missile worth then? How much ISK is all this stress and trouble really worth?
And what is the functional difference between BPO and BPC? What can a BPO do that a BPC cannot do?
A BPO is used to make BPC's.
In making a BPC you can improve it by making it more efficient, or run quicker. So in one way they are better, but you cannot copy a BPC, so once you have used it (it will have a finite amount of production runs) it will be worthless.
A BPO on the other hand can be copied an infinate amount of times.
A BPO therefore costs more. You can buy BPO's on the market for mundane items, generic non-named things and some frigates and other t1 stuff in general I think.
BPO's for T2 stuff are very rare drops I think or given as mission rewards sometimes, not completely sure, but they sell for an aweful lot of ISK.
I am a bit of a noob myself tbh.
edit: don't buy bpo's for mines, I saw a bpo on escrow for an anoconda or something, which was removed from the game ages before I started. Escrow is very useful, but open to abuse.
In that way EVE players can be quite ruthless in general. pvp is ruthless in comparison to other games in that it has real penalties, and basically certain scams are common place and allowed by CCP because I think it gives the game it's "wake up and smell the coffee" feel .
If you buy something make sure you know what you are buying, and if you give somebody money for a service or lottery type event, don't go nuts if you get shafted.
Damn! I was really stung when I paid 140,000 for one then
So what is a BPC of a light flameburst missile worth then? How much ISK is all this stress and trouble really worth? And what is the functional difference between BPO and BPC? What can a BPO do that a BPC cannot do?
Not sure on the value but I ccan tell you the difference
A BPO or Blueprint original is a blue print that you can use over and over.
A BPC or Blueprint Copy is a blue print that has a limited number of runs on it till it is "used up" so a ship BP with 3 runs would allow you to build 3 ships before you need a new BPC.
The problem with the Information Bug in escrow that you got caught up in was that people were selling BPCs saying that they were BPOs. the game normally has a column that tells you it is a BPC but the bug had the game telling you that they were BPO's even though they were not.
I agree that you more and likely got banned as a "We have to do it as a matter of to keep it fair overall" rather than the "He's a scammer, and dirty exploiter, and he must be punished"
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We all were ar some point, and I will say that Rookie help is not nessicarily the best place for help as people aren'[t allowed into it after x amount of time. The real help channel would be good or if you want convo me I'll help you out. Names on the right
If what the mod told me earlier today in an email is true my ban should expire in about 8 hours.
It is a great shame that this happened as it has led me to doubt the capabilities of the GM's to some extent (more for poor communication than anything else). It also cost me a weekends play and it will be many weeks possible a couple of months before I get another whole weekend free of work and other commitments. If they had banned me Monday - Wednesday I would not have been too bothered but ruining my weekend plans just plain sucks.
I will be back to mining and so on tomorrow (I hope) and the training I started should finish Wednesday morning so not all is lost. If all goes well I might even encourage my two colleagues to play EVE although both are now reluctant after reading all this and one needs to upgrade his PC anyway (ancient laptop). I am a stubborn sod and although tempted to close my account over this I will persist for a while (possibly years).
If my account is not reacitivated tomorrow (3 days after the ban as stated by the mod email) then I will be very upset and put my many years as a customer services manager to good use. I can write a letter of complaint that truely kicks arse. British Gas fear me after installing leaky radiators (£385 compensation after their original offer of £75) and Hutchinson 3G treat me like I own the company after overcharging me and breaking a promise they made (2 years half price line rental + £200 credit + top phone and bluetooth headset and car kit - they will be building a statue of me in their carpark next).
Lets hope it does not come to that (mainly because I would take hours writing that letter and would rather play than complain). Although I do feel they need to rethink their ban process and explain the reason for the ban in a message. Either via email or on the account details page. It already says the time and date of the ban. All they need is a freetext area and one line of detail to explain the ban.
Small change = huge difference to customer service.
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Yeah I can't argue on it should have the reason added to at least a E-mail. It would be nice to have it say why you were banned so that in your particular case you could hit up the forums and at least attempt to figure out what you specifically did to get the ban.
There was a recent bug were for a few hours, concord stopped responding. Everyone was told they would get a week ban if they exploited it. So of course, half our corp went anyway for a mass gank session, set long skills and took the ban - they reckoned it was worth it for the laugh.
I fail to see how killing a bunch of people in high sec, costing them their ship, cargo and possibly their pods (hopefully they weren't THAT assinine) is "good for a laugh".
People like that baffle me.
Sad... just really really sad.
Currently Playing: Dungeons and Dragons Online. Sig image Pending Still in: A couple Betas
Which was supposed to be a 3 day ban according to the mod email. Taking BST (British Summer time GMT+1) into account that would elapse @ 07:39:00 this morning.
It is now 08:02 BST
The Ban still stands. Perhaps the ban breaks when the server is reset. I will try again when I get home from work in about 12 hours.
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Originally posted by chriswsm Not looking good so far. My account page shows: Subscription Status: Banned01/09/2006 06:39:00 Which was supposed to be a 3 day ban according to the mod email. Taking BST (British Summer time GMT+1) into account that would elapse @ 07:39:00 this morning. It is now 08:02 BST The Ban still stands. Perhaps the ban breaks when the server is reset. I will try again when I get home from work in about 12 hours.
For good or bad timed things like that only happens at the daily downtime. Sometime it's bad like in your case, other times it's good like if your paid subscription runs out you can still logon until downtime.
"Memories are meant to fade. They're designed that way for a reason."
Originally posted by Nicoli Yeah I can't argue on it should have the reason added to at least a E-mail. It would be nice to have it say why you were banned so that in your particular case you could hit up the forums and at least attempt to figure out what you specifically did to get the ban.
You always get a mail stating the reason when you are banned. If he did not recieve it then there are 2 options. 1. He put in the wrong email adress when registering the account. 2. The mail was sorted away as spam by whatever mail service he uses. Either case it's not something CCP's customer service can do much about
"Memories are meant to fade. They're designed that way for a reason."
Originally posted by Elnator Originally posted by ohdearyme
There was a recent bug were for a few hours, concord stopped responding. Everyone was told they would get a week ban if they exploited it. So of course, half our corp went anyway for a mass gank session, set long skills and took the ban - they reckoned it was worth it for the laugh.
I fail to see how killing a bunch of people in high sec, costing them their ship, cargo and possibly their pods (hopefully they weren't THAT assinine) is "good for a laugh".
People like that baffle me.
Sad... just really really sad.
Because its a game.
Do you get all upset when someone gets killed in counterstrike? Your attitude to this will change with more time in eve. It usually does, unless you never intend to leave 0.5+.
Originally posted by ohdearyme Originally posted by Elnator Originally posted by ohdearyme
There was a recent bug were for a few hours, concord stopped responding. Everyone was told they would get a week ban if they exploited it. So of course, half our corp went anyway for a mass gank session, set long skills and took the ban - they reckoned it was worth it for the laugh.
I fail to see how killing a bunch of people in high sec, costing them their ship, cargo and possibly their pods (hopefully they weren't THAT assinine) is "good for a laugh".
People like that baffle me.
Sad... just really really sad.
Because its a game.
Do you get all upset when someone gets killed in counterstrike? Your attitude to this will change with more time in eve. It usually does, unless you never intend to leave 0.5+.
Well, normally I would agree with you. However as it was a exploit, It wouldn't have been a "oh look stupid me I lost all my stuff because I AFK autopiloted in 0.0." But a "WTF they killed my Frieghter with a kestral in HIGH SEC and we're not EVEN FING WAR DECCED!" that would not be cool. And don't give me the high sec 0.0 crap I understand it and have been in 0.0 many times fighting and losing ships and not caring. Using a Exploit to get a few giggles out of shooting people was stupid. Now If you want to war dec a corp to kill them in High sec its fine with me, but High sec is not for atleast unannounced PVP (non-consentual Yes, Unannounced No). and there I agree with Elnator.
Just for further clarification about BPO's and BPC's
BPO's can be copied and used an unlimited amnount of times, they can also have mineral efficiency and production efficiency research done on them, to reduce the minerals used and the time to build accordingly.
They can also be used to make limited-run BPC's
BPC's retain all of the ME and PE of the BPO's they are created from, but no further research can be performed on them and they cannot be used to make other BPC's. I believe the upper limit on BPC's is 1500 runs.
Originally posted by Mcgreag You always get a mail stating the reason when you are banned. If he did not recieve it then there are 2 options. 1. He put in the wrong email adress when registering the account. 2. The mail was sorted away as spam by whatever mail service he uses. Either case it's not something CCP's customer service can do much about
Negative. I still have all my emails going back 15 days since my last cleanout. My Petition confirmation email was the only email received from EVE 24 hours either side of my ban which was actioned 01/09/06 06:39 GMT
This petition confirmation email confirms my address was correct and was received 01 September 2006 09:18
There are no emails from EVE for a week beforehand and afterwards there are two both from the moderator who assisted me by explaining the reason for my ban. These were received 03 September 2006 12:10 and 03 September 2006 13:53
No other emails were received from eve between 23/08/06 and present day.
I recommend that all ban notifications be placed on the users account page as well as emailed.
I am now back in the game and first chance I get all those bloody BPO's or BPC's (whatever) are going out the bloody airlock
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I can see both point of views, though, but this made me wonder why there is no tutorial or beginner ingo whatsoever about the manufacturing and researching procedures even if they can be attempted and used by beginners as in this case.
A more informative email would have been welcomed. Maybe it got lost in the internet plane of lost emails?
Who knows!
"If you give a man a fish, you feed him for a day, if you teach him how to fish, you feed him for a lifetime"
Glad to hear that you are back in the game again. I guess that the ban was automatically lifted at downtime? Anyway, I wish you luck in the game. If you have any problems/questions (including ones about those bloody BPO/Cs and research manufacturing) I recommend that you stop by in the REAL help channel. You'll find it listed under the "Channels and Mailing Lists" interface on the Neocom, or just click the "Help" button and then "Join Channel" (yah, I guess that one is easier :P) A lot of very knowledgeable people (including myself) and some GMs/Volunteers hang out there and will give you a hand.
As for better tutorials, I heard they are on the way and will be part of the Kali release. Eventually (maybe very soon) they will get completely integrated into the UI in a "Follow My Instructions" or a Tool Tip and Wiki form.
So far so good (although still no response from my petition after 4.5 days). I would love to get a GM's opinion on all this.
I would also love to know if the warning message that people have mentioned stated "copied blueprints" or just said BPO and BPC as the use of such abbreviations would exonerate me completely (at least in my own mind). You cant expect a noob to know what BPO and BPC mean and there is no tutorial that mentions BPO and BPC. I have been unable to find the warning noted anywhere within the EVE website.
In short I did something wrong and was banned by default for doing so as the nature of this crime is that you are GUILTY and innocence is not a factor taken into consideration. However I feel that I was persecuted for being a noob and communication of the blueprint thingy was inadequate due to the likely use of unexplained abbreviations in a written warning.
Comparative Example: (better than the oral sex one someone mentioned above)
Imagine you enter a country for the first time. In this country it is illegal to buy fruit on a Tuesday. The only sign that warns you of this states "please note that if you BFOAT you may go to prison" You may not understand this and in a confusing new country may not think to ask about every abbreviation you see on a warning sign.
If the sign said "please note that if you buy fruit on a Tuesday you may go to prison" you might just leave buying those grapes until Wednesday morning.
Tomorrow I should finish all the training required to get my mining barge operational. Woo
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Comments
well, you cant blame anybody for your own misinformation, right? why did you do something you didnt understand?
anyway. imagine it had been the other way, you know nothing about the game, and you see a shiny Rocket BPO for sale on scrow fro only 100k, and hey, its already researched. you know you can get scammed, so you look at everything you can, you look the info on the item, the stats, and yes, you are sure, it is a BPO. "buy"
great, 5 seconds later you feel worse than ever on your 20 days playing EVE. you have been scammed, but you are sure you did anything that was in your hand. in fact, the info on the item said "BPO" but now you have a BPC. how can CCP let this happen without doing anything to the scammer?
I am sure the definition of a scam would contain the word "deliberate" in it somewhere and I feel I have proven this was not deliberate. Foolish perhaps. Noobish without a doubt.
I am not blaming anyone for the misunderstanding. There is no doubt I got it wrong but I think I was treated rather harshly.
As for doing things I do not understand. Take a look at Rookie Help and see how many players are doing things they do not understand. Shall we have the GM's keep and eye on them all? They might make a mistake that irritates another player and should therefore be banned without explanation.
As I said earlier. Huge learning curve + draconian rules do not work well together.
BTW what do you mean by researched? I am a noob remember. I know you can research blueprints but I thought this just means that you can manufacture better things or improve output. I did not realise that you can make blueprints of the better things and sell the blueprints. I thought the issue above was whether the blueprint was Original or a Copy. I bought the original on the market for about 140,000 ISK. I thought selling two for 100,000 was a bargain and not a scam.
It would now be a good point for someone to tell me the difference in value between a BPO and a BPC as other than one is Original and the Other a Copy. My maths on the above indicate that the most I could have conned someone for was 40,000 per blueprint. Original cost me 140,000. Copy placed on Escrow for 100,000 = 40,000 difference.
So how come there is all this fuss? The blueprint for the missile that cost me 140,000 was an original therefore BPO. Is that correct?
The 15 copies I made were therefore BPC's. Is that correct?
What can you do with an original that you cannot do with a copy?
I still have 13 copies left as I only put 2 on escrow as I was unsure and didn't know what I was doing (careful noob). What are the market value of these? What else can I use them for? I was going to do time research and mineral research with some but there was nowhere available at that time.
Tell you what. If a GM can point out to me who (if anyone) was inconvenienced by this I will hand over all the ISK in my bank in the way of compensation to those harmed by my noobish ness. Its only about 8.9 million but it is all the cash I have in the bank.
That would make me feel better - of course I will double check the identity of the GM and the money will be passed to the GM they can forward it to the player so I do not have to know who it is.
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well, i think that this BPC bug was announced on the ingame news, which anybody should read. but anyway, as you should know, one of the principles of law is that not knowing the law does not eximit anybody from its consecuences. you may not know that practicing oral sex on a public area is a crime, but if a cop finds you on action you will get arrested. "hey, it was my first time... i just didnt know...i didnt harm anybody..." less you will get is a fine.
there were many dev posts on the forums about this subject, and the ingame news item. yet you still offered a BPC as a BPO on the scrow. what should a GM do?
I would also like to say that 100k is about the price for a BPO of a light flameburst missile, it is possible that a player might have reported the high price and complained about it (its possible ive seen it before). Is it possible that a player who didnt like you reported you for having high prices?
it is also possible when you checked the price on BPCs you accidently saw the price on BPOs and posted the price near them.
As I mentioned above I did not know what a BPC and BPO was at the time I did that. If the ingame announcement mentioned BPC and BPO and I as a newbie did not know what those abbreviations meant then I am not going to understand the message. If however the message says BLUEPRINT ORIGINAL and BLUEPRINT COPY then I should of understood that as I did copy some blueprints. However blueprints seem to look the same in your hanger if they are copies or originals.
So if the report says BPC aand BPO then is CCP's is being unprofessional for expecting everyone to have memorised the game glossery. Professional documentation is abbreviation free. Its a basic rule of good business.
If they used the full explanation then I have to admit fault for not reading it properly. I just tried to check but I cannot access that part of the eve website while my account is banned.
To use your above example if the law says OSIP is against the law it is assumed that everyone automatically knows that it is an abbreviation of Oral Sex In Public. So who is to blame if someone does not know what that stands for (its not a great example as there is no ISK gain exploit for oral sex in public that I know of, then again I am a noob).
My biggest gripe about this is that I took 2 days and 2 emails to non obvious email addresses before I was even told what I was banned for. I feel that any ban at any time should carry additional details to explain the offence. I have never been banned or even received a warning in any other game therefore I have nothing to compare this experience to and I have played/beta tested 6 other MMORPGS in the last 8 years.
I used to visit this site a lot however in recent years it has become the home of negative forum posts, illogical opinions and tantrums so I visit less often.
Played or Beta'd: UO / DAOC / Horizons / EQ2 / DDO / EVE / Archlord / PirateKingsOnline / Tabula Rasa / LOTRO / AOC / Champions / Darkfall / Mortal Online / DCUO / Rift / STO / SWTOR / TSW
Damn! I was really stung when I paid 140,000 for one then
So what is a BPC of a light flameburst missile worth then? How much ISK is all this stress and trouble really worth?
And what is the functional difference between BPO and BPC? What can a BPO do that a BPC cannot do?
I used to visit this site a lot however in recent years it has become the home of negative forum posts, illogical opinions and tantrums so I visit less often.
Played or Beta'd: UO / DAOC / Horizons / EQ2 / DDO / EVE / Archlord / PirateKingsOnline / Tabula Rasa / LOTRO / AOC / Champions / Darkfall / Mortal Online / DCUO / Rift / STO / SWTOR / TSW
I think they could have handled (ccp) the ban better, If somebody is penalized they should be instantly informed why, it should be part of the banning process. Good communication can make all the difference, being left to "stew" over such a minor thing is unfair.
As to the specific reason why the OP commited the offense, I sympathise with you for being punished for your lack of knowledge, it was a tough break, but in a way I hope it actually makes you feel better about CCP that they do take scamming seriously.
I hope it doesn't put you off of the game m8.
Damn! I was really stung when I paid 140,000 for one then
So what is a BPC of a light flameburst missile worth then? How much ISK is all this stress and trouble really worth?
And what is the functional difference between BPO and BPC? What can a BPO do that a BPC cannot do?
A BPO is used to make BPC's.
In making a BPC you can improve it by making it more efficient, or run quicker. So in one way they are better, but you cannot copy a BPC, so once you have used it (it will have a finite amount of production runs) it will be worthless.
A BPO on the other hand can be copied an infinate amount of times.
A BPO therefore costs more. You can buy BPO's on the market for mundane items, generic non-named things and some frigates and other t1 stuff in general I think.
BPO's for T2 stuff are very rare drops I think or given as mission rewards sometimes, not completely sure, but they sell for an aweful lot of ISK.
I am a bit of a noob myself tbh.
edit: don't buy bpo's for mines, I saw a bpo on escrow for an anoconda or something, which was removed from the game ages before I started. Escrow is very useful, but open to abuse.
In that way EVE players can be quite ruthless in general. pvp is ruthless in comparison to other games in that it has real penalties, and basically certain scams are common place and allowed by CCP because I think it gives the game it's "wake up and smell the coffee" feel
.
If you buy something make sure you know what you are buying, and if you give somebody money for a service or lottery type event, don't go nuts if you get shafted.
A BPO or Blueprint original is a blue print that you can use over and over.
A BPC or Blueprint Copy is a blue print that has a limited number of runs on it till it is "used up" so a ship BP with 3 runs would allow you to build 3 ships before you need a new BPC.
The problem with the Information Bug in escrow that you got caught up in was that people were selling BPCs saying that they were BPOs. the game normally has a column that tells you it is a BPC but the bug had the game telling you that they were BPO's even though they were not.
I agree that you more and likely got banned as a "We have to do it as a matter of to keep it fair overall" rather than the "He's a scammer, and dirty exploiter, and he must be punished"
janjanson / Nicoli
Ah Right'o Thanks for that.
If you are a noob - I am noober
I used to visit this site a lot however in recent years it has become the home of negative forum posts, illogical opinions and tantrums so I visit less often.
Played or Beta'd: UO / DAOC / Horizons / EQ2 / DDO / EVE / Archlord / PirateKingsOnline / Tabula Rasa / LOTRO / AOC / Champions / Darkfall / Mortal Online / DCUO / Rift / STO / SWTOR / TSW
Thanks Nicoli I will bear that in mind.
If what the mod told me earlier today in an email is true my ban should expire in about 8 hours.
It is a great shame that this happened as it has led me to doubt the capabilities of the GM's to some extent (more for poor communication than anything else). It also cost me a weekends play and it will be many weeks possible a couple of months before I get another whole weekend free of work and other commitments. If they had banned me Monday - Wednesday I would not have been too bothered but ruining my weekend plans just plain sucks.
I will be back to mining and so on tomorrow (I hope) and the training I started should finish Wednesday morning so not all is lost. If all goes well I might even encourage my two colleagues to play EVE although both are now reluctant after reading all this and one needs to upgrade his PC anyway (ancient laptop). I am a stubborn sod and although tempted to close my account over this I will persist for a while (possibly years).
If my account is not reacitivated tomorrow (3 days after the ban as stated by the mod email) then I will be very upset and put my many years as a customer services manager to good use. I can write a letter of complaint that truely kicks arse. British Gas fear me after installing leaky radiators (£385 compensation after their original offer of £75) and Hutchinson 3G treat me like I own the company after overcharging me and breaking a promise they made (2 years half price line rental + £200 credit + top phone and bluetooth headset and car kit - they will be building a statue of me in their carpark next).
Lets hope it does not come to that (mainly because I would take hours writing that letter and would rather play than complain). Although I do feel they need to rethink their ban process and explain the reason for the ban in a message. Either via email or on the account details page. It already says the time and date of the ban. All they need is a freetext area and one line of detail to explain the ban.
Small change = huge difference to customer service.
I used to visit this site a lot however in recent years it has become the home of negative forum posts, illogical opinions and tantrums so I visit less often.
Played or Beta'd: UO / DAOC / Horizons / EQ2 / DDO / EVE / Archlord / PirateKingsOnline / Tabula Rasa / LOTRO / AOC / Champions / Darkfall / Mortal Online / DCUO / Rift / STO / SWTOR / TSW
People like that baffle me.
Sad... just really really sad.
Currently Playing: Dungeons and Dragons Online.
Sig image Pending
Still in: A couple Betas
Not looking good so far. My account page shows:
01/09/2006 06:39:00
Which was supposed to be a 3 day ban according to the mod email. Taking BST (British Summer time GMT+1) into account that would elapse @ 07:39:00 this morning.
It is now 08:02 BST
The Ban still stands. Perhaps the ban breaks when the server is reset. I will try again when I get home from work in about 12 hours.
I used to visit this site a lot however in recent years it has become the home of negative forum posts, illogical opinions and tantrums so I visit less often.
Played or Beta'd: UO / DAOC / Horizons / EQ2 / DDO / EVE / Archlord / PirateKingsOnline / Tabula Rasa / LOTRO / AOC / Champions / Darkfall / Mortal Online / DCUO / Rift / STO / SWTOR / TSW
"Memories are meant to fade. They're designed that way for a reason."
"Memories are meant to fade. They're designed that way for a reason."
People like that baffle me.
Sad... just really really sad.
Because its a game.
Do you get all upset when someone gets killed in counterstrike? Your attitude to this will change with more time in eve. It usually does, unless you never intend to leave 0.5+.
People like that baffle me.
Sad... just really really sad.
Because its a game.
Do you get all upset when someone gets killed in counterstrike? Your attitude to this will change with more time in eve. It usually does, unless you never intend to leave 0.5+.
Well, normally I would agree with you. However as it was a exploit, It wouldn't have been a "oh look stupid me I lost all my stuff because I AFK autopiloted in 0.0." But a "WTF they killed my Frieghter with a kestral in HIGH SEC and we're not EVEN FING WAR DECCED!" that would not be cool. And don't give me the high sec 0.0 crap I understand it and have been in 0.0 many times fighting and losing ships and not caring. Using a Exploit to get a few giggles out of shooting people was stupid. Now If you want to war dec a corp to kill them in High sec its fine with me, but High sec is not for atleast unannounced PVP (non-consentual Yes, Unannounced No). and there I agree with Elnator.
BPO's can be copied and used an unlimited amnount of times, they can also have mineral efficiency and production efficiency research done on them, to reduce the minerals used and the time to build accordingly.
They can also be used to make limited-run BPC's
BPC's retain all of the ME and PE of the BPO's they are created from, but no further research can be performed on them and they cannot be used to make other BPC's. I believe the upper limit on BPC's is 1500 runs.
Negative. I still have all my emails going back 15 days since my last cleanout. My Petition confirmation email was the only email received from EVE 24 hours either side of my ban which was actioned 01/09/06 06:39 GMT
This petition confirmation email confirms my address was correct and was received 01 September 2006 09:18
There are no emails from EVE for a week beforehand and afterwards there are two both from the moderator who assisted me by explaining the reason for my ban. These were received 03 September 2006 12:10 and 03 September 2006 13:53
No other emails were received from eve between 23/08/06 and present day.
I recommend that all ban notifications be placed on the users account page as well as emailed.
I am now back in the game and first chance I get all those bloody BPO's or BPC's (whatever) are going out the bloody airlock
I used to visit this site a lot however in recent years it has become the home of negative forum posts, illogical opinions and tantrums so I visit less often.
Played or Beta'd: UO / DAOC / Horizons / EQ2 / DDO / EVE / Archlord / PirateKingsOnline / Tabula Rasa / LOTRO / AOC / Champions / Darkfall / Mortal Online / DCUO / Rift / STO / SWTOR / TSW
an unpleasant situation to say the least.
I can see both point of views, though, but this made me wonder why there is no tutorial or beginner ingo whatsoever about the manufacturing and researching procedures even if they can be attempted and used by beginners as in this case.
A more informative email would have been welcomed. Maybe it got lost in the internet plane of lost emails?
Who knows!
"If you give a man a fish, you feed him for a day, if you teach him how to fish, you feed him for a lifetime"
Glad to hear that you are back in the game again. I guess that the ban was automatically lifted at downtime? Anyway, I wish you luck in the game. If you have any problems/questions (including ones about those bloody BPO/Cs and research manufacturing) I recommend that you stop by in the REAL help channel. You'll find it listed under the "Channels and Mailing Lists" interface on the Neocom, or just click the "Help" button and then "Join Channel" (yah, I guess that one is easier :P) A lot of very knowledgeable people (including myself) and some GMs/Volunteers hang out there and will give you a hand.
As for better tutorials, I heard they are on the way and will be part of the Kali release. Eventually (maybe very soon) they will get completely integrated into the UI in a "Follow My Instructions" or a Tool Tip and Wiki form.
Again, good luck!
Thanks all
So far so good (although still no response from my petition after 4.5 days). I would love to get a GM's opinion on all this.
I would also love to know if the warning message that people have mentioned stated "copied blueprints" or just said BPO and BPC as the use of such abbreviations would exonerate me completely (at least in my own mind). You cant expect a noob to know what BPO and BPC mean and there is no tutorial that mentions BPO and BPC. I have been unable to find the warning noted anywhere within the EVE website.
In short I did something wrong and was banned by default for doing so as the nature of this crime is that you are GUILTY and innocence is not a factor taken into consideration. However I feel that I was persecuted for being a noob and communication of the blueprint thingy was inadequate due to the likely use of unexplained abbreviations in a written warning.
Comparative Example: (better than the oral sex one someone mentioned above)
Imagine you enter a country for the first time. In this country it is illegal to buy fruit on a Tuesday. The only sign that warns you of this states "please note that if you BFOAT you may go to prison" You may not understand this and in a confusing new country may not think to ask about every abbreviation you see on a warning sign.
If the sign said "please note that if you buy fruit on a Tuesday you may go to prison" you might just leave buying those grapes until Wednesday morning.
Tomorrow I should finish all the training required to get my mining barge operational. Woo
I used to visit this site a lot however in recent years it has become the home of negative forum posts, illogical opinions and tantrums so I visit less often.
Played or Beta'd: UO / DAOC / Horizons / EQ2 / DDO / EVE / Archlord / PirateKingsOnline / Tabula Rasa / LOTRO / AOC / Champions / Darkfall / Mortal Online / DCUO / Rift / STO / SWTOR / TSW