in my point of view, EVE skill system is... PERFECT! yes, perfect. why? mainly 4 reasons.
1.- No skillpoint (experience) limit. actually i think AO is the other only MMORPG without xp restrictions
2.- No skill restriction at all. since there arent classes or professions, you can learn any skill you want, and make all the combinations you wish, without any possible combination altering gameplay balance (some modules may be more powerful than others, but no skill or combination of skills is overpowered on itself)
3.- Veteran players have more skillpoints forever (unless they stop training) but on the best situation that only makes themselves about 10% more effective with any ship. on the worst scenario they can be even less effective than a specialized new player. in the long run, only thing that veteran players get is versatility, not effectivity. for me that is a perfect system. veterans must be respected and given an advantadge simply because they have been playing longer, but that advantage is not going to make them win fights. it only gives them more options. i would hate playing EQ2 for 2 years and find that my character skills are exactly the same of a 4 month player.
4.- No grinding.
ok, having said that, although i think the mechanics are perfect, i believe it should be tweaked and made a little bit faster. not only for new players as many want, but for everybody. something like adding 10 points to every attribute of characters. that would mean training about 30% faster which i think would be very good for the game.
I love the EVE skill system. it lets my toon improve even when I'm not playing and it lets me concentrate on other things when I AM playing.
I always laugh when people use SP as a measure on the quality of a persons toon. SP in and of themselves mean very little, it's WHAT YOU DO with those SP that matter. I have close to 3 million in SP but what does that tell you about my caracter? very little. now if I said I had mining5, mining upgrade 4, trade4, negotiations5, then that tells you a great deal about my toon and what he can do.
With the way the skill system is is truely unique ( or at least from what I have personally seen) CCP has found a system that lets the player concentrate on what they want to do in the game without really worring about what they need to get there as much as other games. You can save up the isk to get that dream ship you want, or its replacement lol. You can hunt rats and pirates for hours on end. You can mine and trade on the market for days on end. You can sit at the gate to your corps HQ and attack anyone who dares to defy you. You can get together with a bunch of your corpmates and either attack another fleet or pratice your tactics with each other. There are litierlly THOUSANDS of other possibilities open to ANYONE if they try hard enough.
Originally posted by Elnator Originally posted by Nicoli They orginally had that type of system and people shot roids for hours on end to raise thier skills, In the end it just comes down to the fact that the system is too exploitable to be effective
I honestly don't ever remember a time in beta when skills were use based. Maybe I'm mis-remembering... beta phase 2 was clonky.
They had though most of the beta and for a short while of eve going gold..
It got changed as it was found people could exploit it by siting in a 1.0 system with a mwd and energy turrets and orbit a roid with the mwd running and the guns active and going afk.. it was a fast and easy way of hitting lvl 5 not only in energy turrets and mwd but also a few other skills.
Originally posted by tennotsukai Originally posted by Elnator Originally posted by Nicoli They orginally had that type of system and people shot roids for hours on end to raise thier skills, In the end it just comes down to the fact that the system is too exploitable to be effective
I honestly don't ever remember a time in beta when skills were use based. Maybe I'm mis-remembering... beta phase 2 was clonky.
They had though most of the beta and for a short while of eve going gold..
It got changed as it was found people could exploit it by siting in a 1.0 system with a mwd and energy turrets and orbit a roid with the mwd running and the guns active and going afk.. it was a fast and easy way of hitting lvl 5 not only in energy turrets and mwd but also a few other skills.
I honestly don't remember so I'll just leave it at that.
Currently Playing: Dungeons and Dragons Online. Sig image Pending Still in: A couple Betas
Originally posted by tennotsukai Originally posted by Elnator Originally posted by Nicoli They orginally had that type of system and people shot roids for hours on end to raise thier skills, In the end it just comes down to the fact that the system is too exploitable to be effective
I honestly don't ever remember a time in beta when skills were use based. Maybe I'm mis-remembering... beta phase 2 was clonky.
They had though most of the beta and for a short while of eve going gold..
It got changed as it was found people could exploit it by siting in a 1.0 system with a mwd and energy turrets and orbit a roid with the mwd running and the guns active and going afk.. it was a fast and easy way of hitting lvl 5 not only in energy turrets and mwd but also a few other skills.
Yep. I am about 300 sps over the topline on mechanic V. IIRC you got mechanic up just by attaching modules to your ship. wish I could claim them back .
So far I am liking what I am hearing I am getting more of a response to this poll than the last although I wanted to get some outside perspective in the last poll as well.
Alot of great points have been made both on the pro and con of the system. I am currently in the back boning of a similar system which I hope we will be able to take the great inspiration that we got from the genius of breaking away from the normal level grind and make a system that will be as well recieved as Eve Online's.
I do want to mention that a good point was made about Eve's system, to the fact that there are no classes you can basically learn and or do anything you choose to invest the time into this should also be considered as part of the system.
Again I want to show my admiration to the developers that came up with the new ground breaking system encompassed in Eve Online. It is a good reminder that the future lies well outside the boundries of comfort.
Keep up the Posting and keep your eyes open for Back-Water Productions on the gaming horizon.
The only reason people hate this skill system is because they want personal solo power without personal skills.
In other games you gain power by your CHARACTER being powerful.
In this game you gain power by YOU THE PERSON being powerful. You use RL skills to manage corporations and alliances. You use RL skills to be a fleet commander. You use RL skills for trading. You use RL skills to be a good manufacturer.
There is no in-game skill to buy low. You the person have to buy low.
There is no in-game skill to sell high. You the person have to sell high.
In-game skills affect taxes and fees, but the market aspect is totally RL skill based.
The most powerful Alliances in the game are not powerful because they have alot of skill points.
They are powerful because the people behind the characters are organized, motivated and ambitious.
If you have a QUALITY person behind the keyboard, the skillpoints are irrelevant.
If you took BoB, took away all their skillpoints and assets, and made them all create new characters, very quickly they would still become the meanest fish in their little pond. As the skill points rise, as the isk rises, the cream would once again rise to the top.
You have how many 3-year old feebs in Eve who sit there doing level 4 missions day after day with a head full of implants. That is not a powerful person.
A single BoB member with a 1 million SP character in a Frigate is a more powerful entity than the 35 million SP mission runner in the Raven.
So, the moral here is.
Skillpoints don't make you powerful. Yes they are necessary, but you can be powerful with very few of them, and you can be powerLESS with 30+ mil SP.
Well if your looking at implementing this system remember one crucial aspect. MAke sure the skills are horizontal not Vertical in improvement.
In example don't do:
Gunnery 1: +5% damage per level Gunnery 2: +5% damage per level Gunnery 3: +5% damage per level Gunnery 4: +5% damage per level Each skill requires the previous at a set level or the 2,3,4 require the first at say level 3 of 5
Do
Gunnery 1: +5% damage per level Gunnery 2: +5% bonus to range Gunnery 3: +5% bonus to Rate of Fire Gunnery 4: +5% bonus to Energy use(be it cap,mana,stamina)
The second method keeps the older players from just being stacked against a youger player in one thing. instead it gives a older player a broader range of advatages taht overall can be overcomed or matched.
Fizzle brings up a good point, How many of you think EVE would be better off if the didn't tell you how many SP you had. Exclude the issue of how would you buy a clone for this. Do you think people would have a better reception of the system if they didn't have a "you have 45million Sp I only have 2million, I can never catch up this game is gay" since they couldn't tell how many SP they had or a similiar system?
Originally posted by Nicoli Well if your looking at implementing this system remember one crucial aspect. MAke sure the skills are horizontal not Vertical in improvement.
In example don't do:
Gunnery 1: +5% damage per level Gunnery 2: +5% damage per level Gunnery 3: +5% damage per level Gunnery 4: +5% damage per level Each skill requires the previous at a set level or the 2,3,4 require the first at say level 3 of 5 Do
Gunnery 1: +5% damage per level Gunnery 2: +5% bonus to range Gunnery 3: +5% bonus to Rate of Fire Gunnery 4: +5% bonus to Energy use(be it cap,mana,stamina)
The second method keeps the older players from just being stacked against a youger player in one thing. instead it gives a older player a broader range of advatages taht overall can be overcomed or matched.
That's not what keeps older players from being stacked against younger ones.
What keeps that from happening is the fact that group-pvp is the norm.
Gangs need a variety of ships in all sizes, which means they need a variety of players with all different skills.
Frigates can be maxed with little SP. Cruisers need a little more. BC needs more. BS needs alot. Dreadnaught needs a lot.
So basically it's different roles in the fleet, depending on what your skills are.
The current RT skill training system of EVE is one of the main reasons I play EVE, or any MMO at all. It allows me to develop my character, while still having a social life, since I have a girfriend, a child and an active circle of friends. A game like eg WoW, where you not only have to grind endless hours for levels, but where you have severe grouping problems with friends who are far level above you, is nothing I could play for a longer period of time. In that regard EVE is perfect for me.
Additionally, as some have said or hinted at, I think that the skill system helps in washing out a lot of the "instagratification" type people, who want nothing but the best weapon and best armor to show off properly in a short amount of time, an then move on. So overall, the EVE community is certainly among the better ones, and one reason is the skill training system.
The biggest problem that the skill system has imo, is the feeling to be overwhelmed that a lot of new people seem to have. "What should I train?", "What is worth to be trained?", "Where the **** do I start at all?", "OMG, I am soo poor, since the other have so many more SP than me!". That is where I think EVE (esp the Tutorial) needs to be improved a bit, to help people understand the system, and enable them to make sensible choices.
------------------------------------------------------ Originally posted by Mandolin
Designers need to move away from the old D&D level-based model which was never designed for player vs player combat in the first place.
Originally posted by Arcken I guess I dont dig it much because I feel like if I work harder at something, ie spend more time online, I should be rewarded for my effort. Who wants to work harder than everyone else around them if you are all getting the same thing in the end?
Power is money in eve. Whoever says there isn't a grind in eve are kidding themselves. I found myself doing missions over and over again so I could afford a battleship. On the op, I find myself torn between the two. I like the idea of progressing my character at myown pace. i.e. faster than everyone else because im impatient. But, I like the current skill system because im too lazy to grind. Being impatient and lazy isnt a good combination.
The biggest problem that the skill system has imo, is the feeling to be overwhelmed that a lot of new people seem to have. "What should I train?", "What is worth to be trained?", "Where the **** do I start at all?", "OMG, I am soo poor, since the other have so many more SP than me!". That is where I think EVE (esp the Tutorial) needs to be improved a bit, to help people understand the system, and enable them to make sensible choices.
I'd thought About this and do think that having "Templates" available for newer people to be able to select to list the skills to train (Note: NOT a CLASS, just a skill list). EVEmon does a good job at organizing skills but unless you know what you need it still is a nightmare. Something Ingame where you could click say a T1 Caldari Healing Template and it tells you to train Cruiser 4, Shield Emission III, Targeting III... etc; that way a new player could say I want to be a healer and fly caldari ships and get a list of skills that he needs, and some optional training that would make him better.
Perhaps it would be nice with the possible Skill que system that has been talked about by the devs they would be able to add such predefined skill lists. Though I would say they shouldn't go higher than cruiser, as by then you should have some friends in game or at least know where to go ask about what to train.
Originally posted by Nicoli I'd thought About this and do think that having "Templates" available for newer people to be able to select to list the skills to train (Note: NOT a CLASS, just a skill list). EVEmon does a good job at organizing skills but unless you know what you need it still is a nightmare. Something Ingame where you could click say a T1 Caldari Healing Template and it tells you to train Cruiser 4, Shield Emission III, Targeting III... etc; that way a new player could say I want to be a healer and fly caldari ships and get a list of skills that he needs, and some optional training that would make him better.Perhaps it would be nice with the possible Skill que system that has been talked about by the devs they would be able to add such predefined skill lists. Though I would say they shouldn't go higher than cruiser, as by then you should have some friends in game or at least know where to go ask about what to train.
Interesting ideas, but I thought more about a better explanation in the tutorial. Ready templates somehow go against the freeform development of EVE, imo. In the end, keep in mind that the older characters had to find their way through the jungle too with barely any help, except other players. I for my part simply looked at what item I wanted to be able to use, be it a weapon or a ship), and then I backtraced the skills I'd need for it. That way you gain a better understanding of how things relate to each other. What would have been a great help for me though is a better explanation of attributes and skills and what they do (influence), since even the current explanations (at character generation) fail to even remotely help you judging what might be helpful and what is better lft off for later. The tutorial needs to explain better the skill groups, how skills influence things, and generally help players to help themselves... not doing all the "work" for them, because that wouldn't really help people to really understand how things work - once they have this basic understanding, it's no problem to make sensible decisions.
------------------------------------------------------ Originally posted by Mandolin
Designers need to move away from the old D&D level-based model which was never designed for player vs player combat in the first place.
Originally posted by Nicoli Originally posted by Azirophos
The biggest problem that the skill system has imo, is the feeling to be overwhelmed that a lot of new people seem to have. "What should I train?", "What is worth to be trained?", "Where the **** do I start at all?", "OMG, I am soo poor, since the other have so many more SP than me!". That is where I think EVE (esp the Tutorial) needs to be improved a bit, to help people understand the system, and enable them to make sensible choices.
I'd thought About this and do think that having "Templates" available for newer people to be able to select to list the skills to train (Note: NOT a CLASS, just a skill list). EVEmon does a good job at organizing skills but unless you know what you need it still is a nightmare. Something Ingame where you could click say a T1 Caldari Healing Template and it tells you to train Cruiser 4, Shield Emission III, Targeting III... etc; that way a new player could say I want to be a healer and fly caldari ships and get a list of skills that he needs, and some optional training that would make him better.
Perhaps it would be nice with the possible Skill que system that has been talked about by the devs they would be able to add such predefined skill lists. Though I would say they shouldn't go higher than cruiser, as by then you should have some friends in game or at least know where to go ask about what to train.
Right click show info, required skills...read skill descriptions...it is there if you look for it .
And then their are the player made tools like evemon as well. Persnally I liked the fact that over 2 years ago I logged on created character and then had to work it out myself
Originally posted by Kari_Awn I work 40+ hours a week. EVE's skill system is perfect for me. I can have my skills training on one that takes a couple of days or more if I know I'm not going to be playing for an extended period of time. I love it!
Kari Awn speaks truth.
When playing any other game I spend the week wishing I could get a couple hours to level. In Eve I spend the week leveling so that on the weekend I can play.
Originally posted by Siamko So far I am liking what I am hearing I am getting more of a response to this poll than the last although I wanted to get some outside perspective in the last poll as well.
Alot of great points have been made both on the pro and con of the system. I am currently in the back boning of a similar system which I hope we will be able to take the great inspiration that we got from the genius of breaking away from the normal level grind and make a system that will be as well recieved as Eve Online's. I do want to mention that a good point was made about Eve's system, to the fact that there are no classes you can basically learn and or do anything you choose to invest the time into this should also be considered as part of the system. Again I want to show my admiration to the developers that came up with the new ground breaking system encompassed in Eve Online. It is a good reminder that the future lies well outside the boundries of comfort. Keep up the Posting and keep your eyes open for Back-Water Productions on the gaming horizon.
Well if this is true and you really are a developer of some sort welcome to eve...sort off!!!
I would like to say tho its not just the skill system that amkes eve great its also the way the community is managed by ccp as in not managed. We are allowed to do pretty much what we want and as a consiquence communities have formed and rivalries too.
I do want to define my apearance here on this forum and the true meaning to the madness. I am not a developer that is affiliated with Eve Online. However I am a developer helping to back bone a fantasy genre mmo that I hope to have into alpha production soon.
The skill system that we have developed was inspired by the out of the box thinking that is shown in the Eve skill system. The freedom of choice given to the players was the paramount point that we liked also the offline character "training" was the second paramount point. Thinking out side of the box normally pushes people to a place that they arent comfortable with at first but in Eve's case it is a good place to be.
I personally am very interested in what the mass gamer population thinks of the gaming aspects. you can't make everyone happy but as this poll has shown it is possible to cut out that nitch and get a good player base. Our system like I said was inspired by Eve but doesnt function exactly the same way.......
I will let you guys in on more details later but keep the posts coming it is great to get constructive idea's.
and remember keep your eye on the horizon for Back-Water Productions
I love it. I've played alot of the other Fantasy MMO's out there before I came to EVE and enjoyed them a lot, but I hated paying for a month and not playing every day. I'd feel like I was wasting money if I played something else and I hated it.
In EVE I have 3 accounts, I haven't logged on for an extended period of time in the last week and I still love it. It's a game I can ignore for a few days without quitting outright, so I've stuck with it. I get this way with all games, I get tired of it and play something else for a week then go back. In EVE I'm still advancing, in every other game I'd have canceled by now.
The system is why I sitll play Eve after (4 years now?)
Although I should have nearly 30-40mil SP's by now but Ther were times where I forgot to switch skills, and there wre also 6months where I never logged in. I'm kicking myself now, but I'm also ok with it because I dont think I'd like paying over 10mil for a Clone per death.
The fact is : you have ti earn isk to buy you skill books and ships and module. But there are many many ways to earn isk, especially if you play with a nice corp/alliance.
From a casual point a view, it nice not be forced to be hardcore playing just to be at the same level as your friends & guildmates. In other mmos (except CoH thanks to the sidekick system), young players are just excluded from the high end game. And you feel quite frustrated to pay the same fee as other hardcore players, but still suck in the game. In EvE I don't feel that frustration.
Spending online RL time just to get a new gameplay improvement, is just a waist of time imo. EvE made it offline, so when I'm online I'm focused -with my RL skills- to make more & fast isk
Originally posted by Azirophos The biggest problem that the skill system has imo, is the feeling to be overwhelmed that a lot of new people seem to have. "What should I train?", "What is worth to be trained?", "Where the **** do I start at all?", "OMG, I am soo poor, since the other have so many more SP than me!". That is where I think EVE (esp the Tutorial) needs to be improved a bit, to help people understand the system, and enable them to make sensible choices.
DDO has a similar issue with skills/feats [which for now, can't be respec'd]. Luckily it doesn't take that long to re-roll if you make a mistake.
Comments
in my point of view, EVE skill system is... PERFECT! yes, perfect. why? mainly 4 reasons.
1.- No skillpoint (experience) limit. actually i think AO is the other only MMORPG without xp restrictions
2.- No skill restriction at all. since there arent classes or professions, you can learn any skill you want, and make all the combinations you wish, without any possible combination altering gameplay balance (some modules may be more powerful than others, but no skill or combination of skills is overpowered on itself)
3.- Veteran players have more skillpoints forever (unless they stop training) but on the best situation that only makes themselves about 10% more effective with any ship. on the worst scenario they can be even less effective than a specialized new player. in the long run, only thing that veteran players get is versatility, not effectivity. for me that is a perfect system. veterans must be respected and given an advantadge simply because they have been playing longer, but that advantage is not going to make them win fights. it only gives them more options. i would hate playing EQ2 for 2 years and find that my character skills are exactly the same of a 4 month player.
4.- No grinding.
ok, having said that, although i think the mechanics are perfect, i believe it should be tweaked and made a little bit faster. not only for new players as many want, but for everybody. something like adding 10 points to every attribute of characters. that would mean training about 30% faster which i think would be very good for the game.
I love the EVE skill system. it lets my toon improve even when I'm not playing and it lets me concentrate on other things when I AM playing.
I always laugh when people use SP as a measure on the quality of a persons toon. SP in and of themselves mean very little, it's WHAT YOU DO with those SP that matter. I have close to 3 million in SP but what does that tell you about my caracter? very little. now if I said I had mining5, mining upgrade 4, trade4, negotiations5, then that tells you a great deal about my toon and what he can do.
With the way the skill system is is truely unique ( or at least from what I have personally seen) CCP has found a system that lets the player concentrate on what they want to do in the game without really worring about what they need to get there as much as other games. You can save up the isk to get that dream ship you want, or its replacement lol. You can hunt rats and pirates for hours on end. You can mine and trade on the market for days on end. You can sit at the gate to your corps HQ and attack anyone who dares to defy you. You can get together with a bunch of your corpmates and either attack another fleet or pratice your tactics with each other. There are litierlly THOUSANDS of other possibilities open to ANYONE if they try hard enough.
They had though most of the beta and for a short while of eve going gold..
It got changed as it was found people could exploit it by siting in a 1.0 system with a mwd and energy turrets and orbit a roid with the mwd running and the guns active and going afk.. it was a fast and easy way of hitting lvl 5 not only in energy turrets and mwd but also a few other skills.
They had though most of the beta and for a short while of eve going gold..
It got changed as it was found people could exploit it by siting in a 1.0 system with a mwd and energy turrets and orbit a roid with the mwd running and the guns active and going afk.. it was a fast and easy way of hitting lvl 5 not only in energy turrets and mwd but also a few other skills.
I honestly don't remember so I'll just leave it at that.
Currently Playing: Dungeons and Dragons Online.
Sig image Pending
Still in: A couple Betas
They had though most of the beta and for a short while of eve going gold..
It got changed as it was found people could exploit it by siting in a 1.0 system with a mwd and energy turrets and orbit a roid with the mwd running and the guns active and going afk.. it was a fast and easy way of hitting lvl 5 not only in energy turrets and mwd but also a few other skills.
Yep. I am about 300 sps over the topline on mechanic V. IIRC you got mechanic up just by attaching modules to your ship. wish I could claim them back
So far I am liking what I am hearing I am getting more of a response to this poll than the last although I wanted to get some outside perspective in the last poll as well.
Alot of great points have been made both on the pro and con of the system. I am currently in the back boning of a similar system which I hope we will be able to take the great inspiration that we got from the genius of breaking away from the normal level grind and make a system that will be as well recieved as Eve Online's.
I do want to mention that a good point was made about Eve's system, to the fact that there are no classes you can basically learn and or do anything you choose to invest the time into this should also be considered as part of the system.
Again I want to show my admiration to the developers that came up with the new ground breaking system encompassed in Eve Online. It is a good reminder that the future lies well outside the boundries of comfort.
Keep up the Posting and keep your eyes open for Back-Water Productions on the gaming horizon.
The only reason people hate this skill system is because they want personal solo power without personal skills.
In other games you gain power by your CHARACTER being powerful.
In this game you gain power by YOU THE PERSON being powerful. You use RL skills to manage corporations and alliances. You use RL skills to be a fleet commander. You use RL skills for trading. You use RL skills to be a good manufacturer.
There is no in-game skill to buy low. You the person have to buy low.
There is no in-game skill to sell high. You the person have to sell high.
In-game skills affect taxes and fees, but the market aspect is totally RL skill based.
The most powerful Alliances in the game are not powerful because they have alot of skill points.
They are powerful because the people behind the characters are organized, motivated and ambitious.
If you have a QUALITY person behind the keyboard, the skillpoints are irrelevant.
If you took BoB, took away all their skillpoints and assets, and made them all create new characters, very quickly they would still become the meanest fish in their little pond. As the skill points rise, as the isk rises, the cream would once again rise to the top.
You have how many 3-year old feebs in Eve who sit there doing level 4 missions day after day with a head full of implants. That is not a powerful person.
A single BoB member with a 1 million SP character in a Frigate is a more powerful entity than the 35 million SP mission runner in the Raven.
So, the moral here is.
Skillpoints don't make you powerful. Yes they are necessary, but you can be powerful with very few of them, and you can be powerLESS with 30+ mil SP.
In example don't do:
Gunnery 2: +5% damage per level
Gunnery 3: +5% damage per level
Gunnery 4: +5% damage per level
Each skill requires the previous at a set level or the 2,3,4 require the first at say level 3 of 5
Gunnery 2: +5% bonus to range
Gunnery 3: +5% bonus to Rate of Fire
Gunnery 4: +5% bonus to Energy use(be it cap,mana,stamina)
What keeps that from happening is the fact that group-pvp is the norm.
Gangs need a variety of ships in all sizes, which means they need a variety of players with all different skills.
Frigates can be maxed with little SP. Cruisers need a little more. BC needs more. BS needs alot. Dreadnaught needs a lot.
So basically it's different roles in the fleet, depending on what your skills are.
If you're new, congratulations you get to tackle.
The current RT skill training system of EVE is one of the main reasons I play EVE, or any MMO at all. It allows me to develop my character, while still having a social life, since I have a girfriend, a child and an active circle of friends. A game like eg WoW, where you not only have to grind endless hours for levels, but where you have severe grouping problems with friends who are far level above you, is nothing I could play for a longer period of time. In that regard EVE is perfect for me.
Additionally, as some have said or hinted at, I think that the skill system helps in washing out a lot of the "instagratification" type people, who want nothing but the best weapon and best armor to show off properly in a short amount of time, an then move on. So overall, the EVE community is certainly among the better ones, and one reason is the skill training system.
The biggest problem that the skill system has imo, is the feeling to be overwhelmed that a lot of new people seem to have. "What should I train?", "What is worth to be trained?", "Where the **** do I start at all?", "OMG, I am soo poor, since the other have so many more SP than me!". That is where I think EVE (esp the Tutorial) needs to be improved a bit, to help people understand the system, and enable them to make sensible choices.
------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Mandolin
Designers need to move away from the old D&D level-based model which was never designed for player vs player combat in the first place.
Perhaps it would be nice with the possible Skill que system that has been talked about by the devs they would be able to add such predefined skill lists. Though I would say they shouldn't go higher than cruiser, as by then you should have some friends in game or at least know where to go ask about what to train.
Interesting ideas, but I thought more about a better explanation in the tutorial. Ready templates somehow go against the freeform development of EVE, imo. In the end, keep in mind that the older characters had to find their way through the jungle too with barely any help, except other players. I for my part simply looked at what item I wanted to be able to use, be it a weapon or a ship), and then I backtraced the skills I'd need for it. That way you gain a better understanding of how things relate to each other. What would have been a great help for me though is a better explanation of attributes and skills and what they do (influence), since even the current explanations (at character generation) fail to even remotely help you judging what might be helpful and what is better lft off for later. The tutorial needs to explain better the skill groups, how skills influence things, and generally help players to help themselves... not doing all the "work" for them, because that wouldn't really help people to really understand how things work - once they have this basic understanding, it's no problem to make sensible decisions.
------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Mandolin
Designers need to move away from the old D&D level-based model which was never designed for player vs player combat in the first place.
Perhaps it would be nice with the possible Skill que system that has been talked about by the devs they would be able to add such predefined skill lists. Though I would say they shouldn't go higher than cruiser, as by then you should have some friends in game or at least know where to go ask about what to train.
Right click show info, required skills...read skill descriptions...it is there if you look for it
And then their are the player made tools like evemon as well. Persnally I liked the fact that over 2 years ago I logged on created character and then had to work it out myself
When playing any other game I spend the week wishing I could get a couple hours to level.
In Eve I spend the week leveling so that on the weekend I can play.
Well if this is true and you really are a developer of some sort welcome to eve...sort off!!!
I would like to say tho its not just the skill system that amkes eve great its also the way the community is managed by ccp as in not managed. We are allowed to do pretty much what we want and as a consiquence communities have formed and rivalries too.
I do want to define my apearance here on this forum and the true meaning to the madness. I am not a developer that is affiliated with Eve Online. However I am a developer helping to back bone a fantasy genre mmo that I hope to have into alpha production soon.
The skill system that we have developed was inspired by the out of the box thinking that is shown in the Eve skill system. The freedom of choice given to the players was the paramount point that we liked also the offline character "training" was the second paramount point. Thinking out side of the box normally pushes people to a place that they arent comfortable with at first but in Eve's case it is a good place to be.
I personally am very interested in what the mass gamer population thinks of the gaming aspects. you can't make everyone happy but as this poll has shown it is possible to cut out that nitch and get a good player base. Our system like I said was inspired by Eve but doesnt function exactly the same way.......
I will let you guys in on more details later but keep the posts coming it is great to get constructive idea's.
and remember keep your eye on the horizon for Back-Water Productions
Crypto
I love it. I've played alot of the other Fantasy MMO's out there before I came to EVE and enjoyed them a lot, but I hated paying for a month and not playing every day. I'd feel like I was wasting money if I played something else and I hated it.
In EVE I have 3 accounts, I haven't logged on for an extended period of time in the last week and I still love it. It's a game I can ignore for a few days without quitting outright, so I've stuck with it. I get this way with all games, I get tired of it and play something else for a week then go back. In EVE I'm still advancing, in every other game I'd have canceled by now.
The system is why I sitll play Eve after (4 years now?)
Although I should have nearly 30-40mil SP's by now but Ther were times where I forgot to switch skills, and there wre also 6months where I never logged in. I'm kicking myself now, but I'm also ok with it because I dont think I'd like paying over 10mil for a Clone per death.
It focuses on making you look forward to logging on to try something new.
Rather then dread logging on to "punch in" to the grind.
Win.
The fact is : you have ti earn isk to buy you skill books and ships and module. But there are many many ways to earn isk, especially if you play with a nice corp/alliance.
From a casual point a view, it nice not be forced to be hardcore playing just to be at the same level as your friends & guildmates. In other mmos (except CoH thanks to the sidekick system), young players are just excluded from the high end game. And you feel quite frustrated to pay the same fee as other hardcore players, but still suck in the game. In EvE I don't feel that frustration.
Spending online RL time just to get a new gameplay improvement, is just a waist of time imo. EvE made it offline, so when I'm online I'm focused -with my RL skills- to make more & fast isk