Boromir seems grumpy about Turbines, he doesn't say why however, he just hate them for using his death for wrong advertisements and fullfilling their hidden agendas, he say they are evil dooers capitalising on other misery...well, at least, this is what I understand from Boromir endless tirades.
I can already see Gondor falls because not enought peoples show to the raid to protect it! Or that too many didn't know how to play, or DC. We are quite far from the heroic actions of a halfling and a friend leaving the community to accomplish a miracle...quite far indeed. Instancing is a blessing in a well though game such as CoH, I dunno about DDO instancing, it could have been fine, but there is something missing...in CoH, despite been in instances 90% of your play time, it is fine and sweet. In DDO...instancing actually remove something, it is the way they are done...anyway, DDO is a freaking action game, no thanks for me. I stick to RPGs, when they become action games, I stop playing them...Black Isles prolly learn that in a hard way, I feel sorry for them, but they have all the tools they need to prosper.
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
It's funny how people will complain all day about MMO's being cookie-cutters, but as soon as someone offers something the slightest bit original then it is a train wreck.
DDO had some problems, yes, but that was mostly content and level driven (not enough of either). Style wise it was a fresh new design, and did a lot for the MMO genre.
Originally posted by blarney42 It's funny how people will complain all day about MMO's being cookie-cutters, but as soon as someone offers something the slightest bit original then it is a train wreck. DDO had some problems, yes, but that was mostly content and level driven (not enough of either). Style wise it was a fresh new design, and did a lot for the MMO genre.
Exactly what fresh new ideas did DDO contribute to the genre? I played it and all I saw was a generic, scaled down, incomplete version of every other MMO I have played. I didn't play it long, though.... I supposed I could have missed something.
Originally posted by nthnaoun Turbine shut down AC2 shortly after releasing a new expansion for it and then they made a Dungeons and Dragons game that was all instances, instead of an explorable world.
I agree... Instancing is BAD.. repeat after me... Instancing is BAD... ok? ok? nope, the devs didnt get it.
Originally posted by blarney42 It's funny how people will complain all day about MMO's being cookie-cutters, but as soon as someone offers something the slightest bit original then it is a train wreck. DDO had some problems, yes, but that was mostly content and level driven (not enough of either). Style wise it was a fresh new design, and did a lot for the MMO genre.
1st, Turbines bring cookie-cutter MMOs, they don't bring anything innovative (excepf for AC, but that is a long long time ago).
2nd, I was a rabid supporter of DDO, until I play it. I would even go saying "Die Heretics" to unbeliever, because it has the strong franchise I loooove sooo much. Now Turbines was able to make me dislike it, mostly because they advertise REAL D&D and put an action game that doesn't respect the rules on top of it, that is not real D&D. I mean, they would have a substandard game and substandard product and I would have been defending it and supporting it, I would have been loyal to the D&D franchise...to make me turn my back on the D&D franchise, they really did a game that is NOT D&D, I wonder if they even have an idea what D&D is...they seem like they learn fast from WotC, that isn't going to make them understand D&D. Using Gygax on the "voice room", well, wake-up call, they could have use his insight in the design room! No Gygax wasn't pefect, he would prolly have put 25 secrest doors inside a goblin lair, but at least he understand the D&D spirit and can transmit it, not as well as some newer folks, but still could have done a wonderfull job there...instead they use his voice...err...sure...if you want.
Turbines understand the shell, the body, the surrounding of D&D, they have no idea what the spirit, the soul, the inside of D&D is. They would never have even consider putting raiding inside D&D if they would have the slightest clues of the inner soul of D&D. This is like telling that you understand a super model, while in fact you are dead-focus on it body. Turbines make a NICE ACTION game with a D&D skin, however it is not a RPG and even less D&D. D&D is about bringing heroes to live...this is anathema to raiding. Heroic and raiding can't live in harmony, as the raiding logic have peoples been humble members of a bigger thing, while heroic has the individual as the central focus from where everything expand, including any association or guild. In D&D, a guild is determined by it members, in a raiding game, the members are determined by the guild. This is 2 opposite side of a spectrum...the fact they think about raiding that long is telling you how much they have no idea what D&D is. Can LotR survive raiding? Prolly, but it come clashing against what the books tell us, yet those are merely a few hours deep...unlike D&D which is far more incrusted into the players...but raiding will hurt LotR even if it doesn't kill it.
Again, DDO was NOT real D&D, it was an ACTION game. I don't know who was the clueless guy that think, eh let's take the king of RPGs, the most famous RPG setting, and make an action game with it while advertising it is REAL D&D. That is just completely dimwit and a nonsense! This guy should be shot. You can make an ACTION game in the D&D world if this is your desire, but you have to underline it, to advertise as such...not put some cheesy real D&D and expect to not be flame alive! I still think that with a franchise as strong as D&D, making a non-RPG game is a mistake however, yet I never hunt a game such as DragonShard, because they are honest and straightforward, I know I have no time to waste with their game and just wish them good. Burn the witches!
As to why LotR will fail and deserve to be laugh at, there are many reasons...but Boromir told me not to dwell too deep, their stance on Solo been lacking, "ask Boromir" was there cheesy answer...and the fact they enforce raiding (cookie cutter)...LOL...they even want to enforce raiding in DDO, that is just unbelievable, raiding in D&D, these guys are clueless and I wonder if they are gamers at all, I mean if for you someone playing CS is a gamer, maybe they are...lol, maybe! If they can talk with Boromir, so can we!
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
Exactly what fresh new ideas did DDO contribute to the genre? I played it and all I saw was a generic, scaled down, incomplete version of every other MMO I have played. I didn't play it long, though.... I supposed I could have missed something.
1. Interactive fighting system. It's not just click auto attack and occassionaly hitting a special attack button. You can move, dodge, block, etc. All adding to the combat system.
2. Great voice chat system. Works better than any other voice chat on any MMO I've played.
3. Great grouping system. Easy to find groups to do the quests you want, or make a group.
4. Great looting system. Everyone gets stuff (except for some high end raids), no ninja looting, no stupid group politics. An item in the chest for everyone.
5. Instancing. I actually liked the instanced quests. No ganking, no camping, etc. (of course, they did take this too far and did ALL instancing, which I didn't like. Would have been nice to have a little more open spaces, etc.)
6. Classes were all (well, almost all) useful. Rangers got the shaft. But pretty much every class had a use in a group. People *needed* wizards, rogues, tanks, and even bards.
Not saying I liked everything in the game... I dumped it after a few months. But it wasn't so much because what they had was bad, it was what they didn't have. The level cap was waaaaaay too low. If you expect people to stay at lvl 10 for a year, you need to at least have fresh new content coming out pretty quick. That they did not. Doing the same quests over and over and not even gaining levels from it is just lame, lame, lame. Also see #5 - some wide open spaces would have been nice.
Originally posted by blarney42 it wasn't so much because what they had was bad, it was what they didn't have.
I can agree with that. I guess I feel the about the same. But rather than be impressed with what they did have, I was blown away by what they didn't have. The lack of open explorable regions, mounts, crafting and player housing kind of keep me from noticing the in game voice chat. Most of the things you mentioned liking, i have seen in other games. There was just such a lack of meaningful content that I couldn't appreciate the things they did manage to get right.... of course I don't feel like that was much.
Originally posted by blarney42 Originally posted by Salvatoris
Exactly what fresh new ideas did DDO contribute to the genre? I played it and all I saw was a generic, scaled down, incomplete version of every other MMO I have played. I didn't play it long, though.... I supposed I could have missed something.
1. Interactive fighting system. It's not just click auto attack and occassionaly hitting a special attack button. You can move, dodge, block, etc. All adding to the combat system.
2. Great voice chat system. Works better than any other voice chat on any MMO I've played.
3. Great grouping system. Easy to find groups to do the quests you want, or make a group.
4. Great looting system. Everyone gets stuff (except for some high end raids), no ninja looting, no stupid group politics. An item in the chest for everyone.
5. Instancing. I actually liked the instanced quests. No ganking, no camping, etc. (of course, they did take this too far and did ALL instancing, which I didn't like. Would have been nice to have a little more open spaces, etc.)
6. Classes were all (well, almost all) useful. Rangers got the shaft. But pretty much every class had a use in a group. People *needed* wizards, rogues, tanks, and even bards.
Not saying I liked everything in the game... I dumped it after a few months. But it wasn't so much because what they had was bad, it was what they didn't have. The level cap was waaaaaay too low. If you expect people to stay at lvl 10 for a year, you need to at least have fresh new content coming out pretty quick. That they did not. Doing the same quests over and over and not even gaining levels from it is just lame, lame, lame. Also see #5 - some wide open spaces would have been nice.
Hmmmm....
Interactive fighting system made fights annoying, imo. If I want to play an Action game I'll play an Action game. When I log into an MMORPG I expect to be playing an RPG. My CHARACTER should handle most of the 'nitty gritty' of dodging/ducking/etc. I should just need to choose which skills to use in response to certain actions. I shouldn't have to do it myself. That said, yes... the combat system wasn't bad. But not overly innovative either.
Voice chat isn't any better than Ventrillo or TeamSpeak. Most large Guilds dump it and use Vent or TS in favor of it anyway. Nice for Pugs but not overly wondrous.
Agree.... grouping system is nice but other games have good ones too... just not as used as grouping isn't forced in them.
Actually they stole that idea from other MMORPG's. Many have a very similar system of "looting".
Instancing: In some ways it was nice. Though it desperately needs a non-instanced world for players to explore and interact in.
Classes were AD&D standard classes with a few minonr tweaks here and there. It's not exactly rocket science to take a known working RPG format and plug it into a PC game.
The only truely 'innovative' thing that DDO ***RE Introduced*** to the genre:
Rogues that aren't just glorified fighters.
Currently Playing: Dungeons and Dragons Online. Sig image Pending Still in: A couple Betas
Asheron's Call, loved it. Played about three years total.
Asheron's Call 2. Played it for five weeks. Very, very hard to forgive them for that abortion.
Dungeons and Dragons Online. They invited me to beta test it. I tested it for two weeks. Thought the game was good enough, but it was not the type of gameplay that I liked.
It's not that i don't trust Turbine....its just Lord of the Rings is in a sence very special to a lot of people in terms of the world of Fantasy, I mean in my opinion Tolkien was a freakin genious when it came to vision, his minds eye was huge on this world, so we also want that to be present in this game, I'm excited about it and grateful that Turbine picked up the pieces when this project was dropped but none the less scared as all get out that it will get messed up!
Comments
Let's me ask Boromir...
Boromir seems grumpy about Turbines, he doesn't say why however, he just hate them for using his death for wrong advertisements and fullfilling their hidden agendas, he say they are evil dooers capitalising on other misery...well, at least, this is what I understand from Boromir endless tirades.
I can already see Gondor falls because not enought peoples show to the raid to protect it! Or that too many didn't know how to play, or DC. We are quite far from the heroic actions of a halfling and a friend leaving the community to accomplish a miracle...quite far indeed. Instancing is a blessing in a well though game such as CoH, I dunno about DDO instancing, it could have been fine, but there is something missing...in CoH, despite been in instances 90% of your play time, it is fine and sweet. In DDO...instancing actually remove something, it is the way they are done...anyway, DDO is a freaking action game, no thanks for me. I stick to RPGs, when they become action games, I stop playing them...Black Isles prolly learn that in a hard way, I feel sorry for them, but they have all the tools they need to prosper.
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
It's funny how people will complain all day about MMO's being cookie-cutters, but as soon as someone offers something the slightest bit original then it is a train wreck.
DDO had some problems, yes, but that was mostly content and level driven (not enough of either). Style wise it was a fresh new design, and did a lot for the MMO genre.
-----Zero Punctuation Eve Online Review-----
~~~~~Co-Founder of The Guards of Lorien~~~~~
1st, Turbines bring cookie-cutter MMOs, they don't bring anything innovative (excepf for AC, but that is a long long time ago).
2nd, I was a rabid supporter of DDO, until I play it. I would even go saying "Die Heretics" to unbeliever, because it has the strong franchise I loooove sooo much. Now Turbines was able to make me dislike it, mostly because they advertise REAL D&D and put an action game that doesn't respect the rules on top of it, that is not real D&D. I mean, they would have a substandard game and substandard product and I would have been defending it and supporting it, I would have been loyal to the D&D franchise...to make me turn my back on the D&D franchise, they really did a game that is NOT D&D, I wonder if they even have an idea what D&D is...they seem like they learn fast from WotC, that isn't going to make them understand D&D. Using Gygax on the "voice room", well, wake-up call, they could have use his insight in the design room! No Gygax wasn't pefect, he would prolly have put 25 secrest doors inside a goblin lair, but at least he understand the D&D spirit and can transmit it, not as well as some newer folks, but still could have done a wonderfull job there...instead they use his voice...err...sure...if you want.
Turbines understand the shell, the body, the surrounding of D&D, they have no idea what the spirit, the soul, the inside of D&D is. They would never have even consider putting raiding inside D&D if they would have the slightest clues of the inner soul of D&D. This is like telling that you understand a super model, while in fact you are dead-focus on it body. Turbines make a NICE ACTION game with a D&D skin, however it is not a RPG and even less D&D. D&D is about bringing heroes to live...this is anathema to raiding. Heroic and raiding can't live in harmony, as the raiding logic have peoples been humble members of a bigger thing, while heroic has the individual as the central focus from where everything expand, including any association or guild. In D&D, a guild is determined by it members, in a raiding game, the members are determined by the guild. This is 2 opposite side of a spectrum...the fact they think about raiding that long is telling you how much they have no idea what D&D is. Can LotR survive raiding? Prolly, but it come clashing against what the books tell us, yet those are merely a few hours deep...unlike D&D which is far more incrusted into the players...but raiding will hurt LotR even if it doesn't kill it.
Again, DDO was NOT real D&D, it was an ACTION game. I don't know who was the clueless guy that think, eh let's take the king of RPGs, the most famous RPG setting, and make an action game with it while advertising it is REAL D&D. That is just completely dimwit and a nonsense! This guy should be shot. You can make an ACTION game in the D&D world if this is your desire, but you have to underline it, to advertise as such...not put some cheesy real D&D and expect to not be flame alive! I still think that with a franchise as strong as D&D, making a non-RPG game is a mistake however, yet I never hunt a game such as DragonShard, because they are honest and straightforward, I know I have no time to waste with their game and just wish them good. Burn the witches!
As to why LotR will fail and deserve to be laugh at, there are many reasons...but Boromir told me not to dwell too deep, their stance on Solo been lacking, "ask Boromir" was there cheesy answer...and the fact they enforce raiding (cookie cutter)...LOL...they even want to enforce raiding in DDO, that is just unbelievable, raiding in D&D, these guys are clueless and I wonder if they are gamers at all, I mean if for you someone playing CS is a gamer, maybe they are...lol, maybe! If they can talk with Boromir, so can we!
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
1. Interactive fighting system. It's not just click auto attack and occassionaly hitting a special attack button. You can move, dodge, block, etc. All adding to the combat system.
2. Great voice chat system. Works better than any other voice chat on any MMO I've played.
3. Great grouping system. Easy to find groups to do the quests you want, or make a group.
4. Great looting system. Everyone gets stuff (except for some high end raids), no ninja looting, no stupid group politics. An item in the chest for everyone.
5. Instancing. I actually liked the instanced quests. No ganking, no camping, etc. (of course, they did take this too far and did ALL instancing, which I didn't like. Would have been nice to have a little more open spaces, etc.)
6. Classes were all (well, almost all) useful. Rangers got the shaft. But pretty much every class had a use in a group. People *needed* wizards, rogues, tanks, and even bards.
Not saying I liked everything in the game... I dumped it after a few months. But it wasn't so much because what they had was bad, it was what they didn't have. The level cap was waaaaaay too low. If you expect people to stay at lvl 10 for a year, you need to at least have fresh new content coming out pretty quick. That they did not. Doing the same quests over and over and not even gaining levels from it is just lame, lame, lame. Also see #5 - some wide open spaces would have been nice.
-----Zero Punctuation Eve Online Review-----
1. Interactive fighting system. It's not just click auto attack and occassionaly hitting a special attack button. You can move, dodge, block, etc. All adding to the combat system.
2. Great voice chat system. Works better than any other voice chat on any MMO I've played.
3. Great grouping system. Easy to find groups to do the quests you want, or make a group.
4. Great looting system. Everyone gets stuff (except for some high end raids), no ninja looting, no stupid group politics. An item in the chest for everyone.
5. Instancing. I actually liked the instanced quests. No ganking, no camping, etc. (of course, they did take this too far and did ALL instancing, which I didn't like. Would have been nice to have a little more open spaces, etc.)
6. Classes were all (well, almost all) useful. Rangers got the shaft. But pretty much every class had a use in a group. People *needed* wizards, rogues, tanks, and even bards.
Not saying I liked everything in the game... I dumped it after a few months. But it wasn't so much because what they had was bad, it was what they didn't have. The level cap was waaaaaay too low. If you expect people to stay at lvl 10 for a year, you need to at least have fresh new content coming out pretty quick. That they did not. Doing the same quests over and over and not even gaining levels from it is just lame, lame, lame. Also see #5 - some wide open spaces would have been nice.
Hmmmm....
The only truely 'innovative' thing that DDO ***RE Introduced*** to the genre:
Rogues that aren't just glorified fighters.
Currently Playing: Dungeons and Dragons Online.
Sig image Pending
Still in: A couple Betas
Andy
Turbine....
Asheron's Call, loved it. Played about three years total.
Asheron's Call 2. Played it for five weeks. Very, very hard to forgive them for that abortion.
Dungeons and Dragons Online. They invited me to beta test it. I tested it for two weeks. Thought the game was good enough, but it was not the type of gameplay that I liked.
Lord of the Rings Online. No comment.
~ Ancient Membership ~
It's not that i don't trust Turbine....its just Lord of the Rings is in a sence very special to a lot of people in terms of the world of Fantasy, I mean in my opinion Tolkien was a freakin genious when it came to vision, his minds eye was huge on this world, so we also want that to be present in this game, I'm excited about it and grateful that Turbine picked up the pieces when this project was dropped but none the less scared as all get out that it will get messed up!