Originally posted by havocthefirs I'm not really sure when the demise of games began but I know its here, hopefully not for good. It used to be a few guys in a basement could churn out great games. Now giant corporations bang out repetitive garbage. Apparently thought, imagination and a drive to put out a quality game thats actually fun has been replaced with great grafix, scantily clad girls and kick ass sound.
I remember 10 years ago people were saying the exact same thing about the demise of the gaming industry, and using the games you're calling old classics as examples of the junk the corporate drones were pushing out. The more things change, the more they stay the same.
Originally posted by Jimmy_Scythe However, most games released today seem to be lacking the kind of inovative spark that lends many of the greatest games their sense of depth and replayability.
Yes, and most games released 5, 10, 15, or 20 years ago lacked that spark too. That's why the 'greatest games' get the title, they're better than the other stuff. Most games aren't in the running for greatest games.
The market is flooded with short, "one-shot" games and, soon, the bottom will drop out. Either the industry is going to have to make original, replayable games, or it's gonna bomb..... a lot....
What exactly is soon? I've heard the exact same sentiment for over 10 years, this isn't the first 'the game industry will bomb soon' prediction ever made.
Originally posted by Copeland I was 26 ten years ago. When i was 10 the Atari 2600 was the big thing. We played asteroids for hours and hours. Even Asteroids held more of a challenge than WoW.
Yeah and ten years ago I was 32. And I believe Atari 2600 was around back when I was 21 nine years earlier because my dad owned that. I remember coming in the house at 5 in the morning and my dad would be up playing pac-man...LOL. I agree we've come a long way since pac-man and astroids, but I just got into MMO's j a couple of years ago. So, I really don't know if the gaming industry is nearing demise particularly MMO's, or if they are in desparate need of a tune-up. I am looking to the release of GW: Nightfall. The quests and missions are suppose to be more puzzle and riddle oriented, which will make things a bit more interesting. And to me that's what a lot of video games especially MMO's lack, is variety in the way to play the games that are developed. The UPS or kill this guy or that types of quest are ok, but they get old if that's all there is.
There are much more gamers now than 10-20 years ago. More and more older gamers (or gamers that have been gaming since they were very young, but not really old yet) are complaining about the lack of good games and such. Well, this may come as a shock, so sit tight, as I am going to tell you why. Games are not getting worst, or having less depth, or less fun, or less challanging. What has changed more than anything else is you, the long time gamer. Things don't stay fresh forever. You don't get that "new" and "fresh" feeling back. You have been there and done that. It's not the games getting worst, it's you losing the sense of freshness.
I've resorted to playing Frogger hardcore again.. its got everything i need, challenge, excitement, adventure, immersive world full of danger..
It blows away WOW, EQ2 etc.
I agree with above poster. people get jaded over time, like Horror movies.. people who don;t watch them get grossed out, but after you've watch 1000 slasher flicks they are a joke and barely fase ya.
The games industry is not about to die, far from it. Older gamers like me and most of the people commenting here may think things have got worse because we've seen and done it all before. But there are plenty of young kids growing up now just discovering gaming, thinking the latest games are the most exciting thing. Give them 10 - 20 years and they will be saying exactly the same thing as we are, but there will always be a new generation discovering games for the first time.
The only reason TV has lost some of it's popularity is because computers/consoles are the latest form of entertainment. Same with radio when TV came out. Computers and consoles will decline in popularity when a new form of entertainment comes out as well, but probably not before.
Originally posted by Xzaro What has changed more than anything else is you, the long time gamer. Things don't stay fresh forever. You don't get that "new" and "fresh" feeling back. You have been there and done that. It's not the games getting worst, it's you losing the sense of freshness.
What I hear in this thread and every other thread like this are a lot of ambiguous statements that don't mean anything. Please define for me and everyone else reading this thread what in your mind makes a quality MMO and a for that fact video game in general. Define what you mean by depth, and challenge. What exactly do you want from a videa game/MMO? The reason I write this is because everyone has their opinion as to what makes up a quality game and I'd like for people to chime in and define what would curb the "demise" of the gaming industry.
Originally posted by havocthefirs Wow, playing frogger is pretty bad if you have to go back that far. I think I'll beat you by 1/2 a year and play joust.
I used to love joust. Joust and Gladiator were my 2 all time favorite arcade games.
Compare the storylines of Morrowind and Oblivion. I wont describe them. If you've played both games, you know. Morrowind's plot is far more complex and compelling. There are far more subtlties to Morrowind. It is a clearly superior game in most aspects, IMO, than Oblivion. What Oblivion has over Morrowind is better graphics and generally better voice acting. The rest of the game has been dumbed down, IMO.
That's *one* example of what I mean when I say games are growing less sophisticated.
I don't think I'm really looking forward to any forthcoming mmorpg, none look like they are going to blow you off your feet, gameplay wise or world-wise.
Originally posted by Tuor7 The difference in depth? Okay.Compare the storylines of Morrowind and Oblivion. I wont describe them. If you've played both games, you know. Morrowind's plot is far more complex and compelling. There are far more subtlties to Morrowind. It is a clearly superior game in most aspects, IMO, than Oblivion. What Oblivion has over Morrowind is better graphics and generally better voice acting. The rest of the game has been dumbed down, IMO. That's *one* example of what I mean when I say games are growing less sophisticated.
And yet I liked Oblivion far more than Morrowind, almost entirely because I found Morrowind's art direction extremely unattractive. I've been playing Elder Scrolls since Arena...and I find the Oblivion offering to be exceptional.
Quality is a highly subjective thing. You can talk until you're blue in the face about how one thing is better than the other...in the end, it is just your opinion.
My opinion, as I've stated here and in many other posts, is that the industry as a whole is improving. There are more products, there is more variance of product offering, and there is greater depth and subtlety available on the market today. Any individual title may succeed or fail at doing this, but the trend of the industry as a whole is growing by leaps and bounds.
I said nothing about quality. I spoke about DEPTH. And whether or not a game has more depth is NOT a subjective matter, unless the games have similar depth, which isn't true in this case. If you're going to argue against my point, then you should address what I said, not what you wanted me to have said.
I don't think the game industry is improving. I think it's is increasingly making games for the lowest common demoninator.
Originally posted by Tuor7 I said nothing about quality. I spoke about DEPTH. And whether or not a game has more depth is NOT a subjective matter, unless the games have similar depth, which isn't true in this case. If you're going to argue against my point, then you should address what I said, not what you wanted me to have said.I don't think the game industry is improving. I think it's is increasingly making games for the lowest common demoninator.
Measure of depth is subjective. If you feel it is objective, then provide a definition of depth.
But go ahead and substitute the word "Quality" in my post with "Depth", which would silence your retort about my not addressing your argument, and I hold the exact same opinion.
The problem with the industry is the huge influx of money into it. I guess game development has always been a business, but it was at the same time still and art form. Now its big business. Now companies focus on aspects of a game that will sell. Like graphics etc and concentrate totally on that, but a game is only as good as the sum of its part. Great games are games that come together and do everything right. I don't think that the industry will collapse but I do think it will continue going down hill until is does a philosophical 180 and games are developed like they use to be.
Originally posted by Tuor7 The difference in depth? Okay.
Compare the storylines of Morrowind and Oblivion. I wont describe them. If you've played both games, you know. Morrowind's plot is far more complex and compelling. There are far more subtlties to Morrowind. It is a clearly superior game in most aspects, IMO, than Oblivion. What Oblivion has over Morrowind is better graphics and generally better voice acting. The rest of the game has been dumbed down, IMO.
That's *one* example of what I mean when I say games are growing less sophisticated.
And yet I liked Oblivion far more than Morrowind, almost entirely because I found Morrowind's art direction extremely unattractive. I've been playing Elder Scrolls since Arena...and I find the Oblivion offering to be exceptional.
Quality is a highly subjective thing. You can talk until you're blue in the face about how one thing is better than the other...in the end, it is just your opinion.
My opinion, as I've stated here and in many other posts, is that the industry as a whole is improving. There are more products, there is more variance of product offering, and there is greater depth and subtlety available on the market today. Any individual title may succeed or fail at doing this, but the trend of the industry as a whole is growing by leaps and bounds.
The way I see it, it's consumers like you that bork the market. Pretty graphics and flashy animations are what sells to the less sophisticated generation (yours), unfortunately, they fail to attract the middle-aged male gamer (myself and my generation) because they know they can just feed you guys the same crap with less effort.
Regarding my last post and your response, ianubisi: I have watched television shows from the 40s to the current century. Who says I have to live those years to see what they had on TV? You should seriously reconsider dropping out of elementary school.
I said it before, and I'll say it again, because apparently you have a thick skull, ianubisi: you buy the crap, they keep making the crap. It may not seem like crap to you becaue you have a linear perception of life, or in other words "your head is full of crap". You don't have the experience to know what is innovative or original; so stuff your opinion, it doesn't mean anything in this debate.
Originally posted by Plasuma!!! The way I see it, it's consumers like you that bork the market. Pretty graphics and flashy animations are what sells to the less sophisticated generation (yours), unfortunately, they fail to attract the middle-aged male gamer (myself and my generation) because they know they can just feed you guys the same crap with less effort.
I suppose that the fact that I'm older than you has no bearing on your opinion, no? Of course not.
Originally posted by Plasuma!!! Regarding my last post and your response, ianubisi: I have watched television shows from the 40s to the current century. Who says I have to live those years to see what they had on TV?
When you're prepared to comment about the impact on society based upon the advent of a particular form of entertainment, either you'd best have been there to have understood it directly or you had best be prepared with the doctoral thesis that has detailed it extensively.
Short of that, you're exercising your right to an opinion.
Originally posted by Plasuma!!!You should seriously reconsider dropping out of elementary school.
Yes, the personal attack is the last refuge of a person who knows he has lost his argument.
Originally posted by Plasuma!!!I said it before, and I'll say it again, because apparently you have a thick skull, ianubisi: you buy the crap, they keep making the crap. It may not seem like crap to you becaue you have a linear perception of life, or in other words "your head is full of crap". You don't have the experience to know what is innovative or original; so stuff your opinion, it doesn't mean anything in this debate.
I enjoy your analysis of my actions in life, which apparently you can see through your magical looking glass. Tell me, what games have I purchased such that you would be able to make such a judgement?
Originally posted by Plasuma!!! The way I see it, it's consumers like you that bork the market. Pretty graphics and flashy animations are what sells to the less sophisticated generation (yours), unfortunately, they fail to attract the middle-aged male gamer (myself and my generation) because they know they can just feed you guys the same crap with less effort.
I suppose that the fact that I'm older than you has no bearing on your opinion, no? Of course not.
Originally posted by Plasuma!!! Regarding my last post and your response, ianubisi: I have watched television shows from the 40s to the current century. Who says I have to live those years to see what they had on TV?
When you're prepared to comment about the impact on society based upon the advent of a particular form of entertainment, either you'd best have been there to have understood it directly or you had best be prepared with the doctoral thesis that has detailed it extensively.
Short of that, you're exercising your right to an opinion.
Originally posted by Plasuma!!!You should seriously reconsider dropping out of elementary school.
Yes, the personal attack is the last refuge of a person who knows he has lost his argument.
Originally posted by Plasuma!!!
I said it before, and I'll say it again, because apparently you have a thick skull, ianubisi: you buy the crap, they keep making the crap. It may not seem like crap to you becaue you have a linear perception of life, or in other words "your head is full of crap". You don't have the experience to know what is innovative or original; so stuff your opinion, it doesn't mean anything in this debate.
I enjoy your analysis of my actions in life, which apparently you can see through your magical looking glass. Tell me, what games have I purchased such that you would be able to make such a judgement?
You see this is why I want people to define what it is that they mean by DEPTH, IMMERSION, QUALITY, etc. I mean artwork and glitzy fx are a part of the over all quality. But then again so are good story telling and the mission and quest interactions, these are what draws one into the entire game. It's kind of like what attracts(-ed) you to your significant other. Usually, it the overall appearance (it this case the artwork) that attracts you, then as you get to know that person you begin to know them and as you begin to get immersed in their life you begin to see the depth of that person. Then can you truely assess the overall quality of that person (in this case game). This completely leaves it up to the person to judge for themselves what is meant by each of these qualities. So, please define depth, immersion, and quality (in your opinion). Anyway, enough of my rambling.
Ah the good ol days, when games were writen by gamers for other gamers. When each game came with a detailed intruction manual on how to get it to run on your machine, but almost no instruction on how to play it. Where you would sytematically punch every key on the keyboard until something happened. Back when you changed key mapping by hacking the code. Man, I miss those days, NOT!
Originally posted by Copeland The problem is this... Back in the day games were made by gamers. They were open and took a bit of brains to play. They maintained some good subscriber numbers and a few corporations thought they could make a buck there too. Corporations know that in order to make money you have to make things for stupid people. The majority of people in this world have an eigth grade reading level and can barely divide a fraction. Knowing this they make games like WoW and Guildwars which pretty much play themselves as long as a macro or a monkey is smart enough to press a button at the right time. There's only a few games today that require thought to avoid serious pain. The future holds more of the same in large part. WoW has set the bar and soon games like LOTR and Vanguard will follow its lead. Luckily for old gamers there are companies like CCP. I don't know if they'll ever make the game that satisfies large numbers of players but they are out there igoring the cookie cutter mold of today and doing their own thing regardless of meager profits. It's only a matter of time until some mom and pop company put out the game you're waiting for. Trust me. If theres a customer theres a company waiting to sell you something. Rememer you're not alone in your disdane. Someone who feels just like you is probably in design school as we type.
we can only hope.
could we please get correspondent writers and moderators, on the eve forum at mmorpg.com, who are well-versed on eve-online and aren't just passersby pushing buttons? pretty please?
Comments
Well, the GBT style is way under thinked and under developped compare to what it used to be.
Any GBT fan can hardly come with a positive conclusion.
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
I remember 10 years ago people were saying the exact same thing about the demise of the gaming industry, and using the games you're calling old classics as examples of the junk the corporate drones were pushing out. The more things change, the more they stay the same.
Yes, and most games released 5, 10, 15, or 20 years ago lacked that spark too. That's why the 'greatest games' get the title, they're better than the other stuff. Most games aren't in the running for greatest games.
What exactly is soon? I've heard the exact same sentiment for over 10 years, this isn't the first 'the game industry will bomb soon' prediction ever made.
I've resorted to playing Frogger hardcore again.. its got everything i need, challenge, excitement, adventure, immersive world full of danger..
It blows away WOW, EQ2 etc.
I agree with above poster. people get jaded over time, like Horror movies.. people who don;t watch them get grossed out, but after you've watch 1000 slasher flicks they are a joke and barely fase ya.
i completely disagree.
the market is flooded with shitty mmo's like auto assault...
i sure wish the game industry would produce more high quality mmo's..
because wow was really fun for a while, it'd sure be nice if a game of it's caliber came out ever 6 months so you could switch if you got bored.
so here i am, 2 years after it's release, bored of it and waiting for a new mmo....
--people who believe in abstinence are unsurprisingly also some of the ugliest most sexually undesired people in the world.--
Blizz took 5 years to make their MMO with a ginourmous budget.
Im sure good MMos could/can/are being made with some creativity and lower graphics but everyones going to still compare it to the big budget games.
MMO is the hardest game to make. They churn out easy copies to rake in a few dollars from us sucker addicts.
The games industry is not about to die, far from it. Older gamers like me and most of the people commenting here may think things have got worse because we've seen and done it all before. But there are plenty of young kids growing up now just discovering gaming, thinking the latest games are the most exciting thing. Give them 10 - 20 years and they will be saying exactly the same thing as we are, but there will always be a new generation discovering games for the first time.
The only reason TV has lost some of it's popularity is because computers/consoles are the latest form of entertainment. Same with radio when TV came out. Computers and consoles will decline in popularity when a new form of entertainment comes out as well, but probably not before.
QFT
I used to love joust. Joust and Gladiator were my 2 all time favorite arcade games.
Make a difference!
The difference in depth? Okay.
Compare the storylines of Morrowind and Oblivion. I wont describe them. If you've played both games, you know. Morrowind's plot is far more complex and compelling. There are far more subtlties to Morrowind. It is a clearly superior game in most aspects, IMO, than Oblivion. What Oblivion has over Morrowind is better graphics and generally better voice acting. The rest of the game has been dumbed down, IMO.
That's *one* example of what I mean when I say games are growing less sophisticated.
And yet I liked Oblivion far more than Morrowind, almost entirely because I found Morrowind's art direction extremely unattractive. I've been playing Elder Scrolls since Arena...and I find the Oblivion offering to be exceptional.
Quality is a highly subjective thing. You can talk until you're blue in the face about how one thing is better than the other...in the end, it is just your opinion.
My opinion, as I've stated here and in many other posts, is that the industry as a whole is improving. There are more products, there is more variance of product offering, and there is greater depth and subtlety available on the market today. Any individual title may succeed or fail at doing this, but the trend of the industry as a whole is growing by leaps and bounds.
I said nothing about quality. I spoke about DEPTH. And whether or not a game has more depth is NOT a subjective matter, unless the games have similar depth, which isn't true in this case. If you're going to argue against my point, then you should address what I said, not what you wanted me to have said.
I don't think the game industry is improving. I think it's is increasingly making games for the lowest common demoninator.
Measure of depth is subjective. If you feel it is objective, then provide a definition of depth.
But go ahead and substitute the word "Quality" in my post with "Depth", which would silence your retort about my not addressing your argument, and I hold the exact same opinion.
There is always a few few good games coming out.
The only real question is: Is there more crap out now then there was before? Answer: probably.
And yet I liked Oblivion far more than Morrowind, almost entirely because I found Morrowind's art direction extremely unattractive. I've been playing Elder Scrolls since Arena...and I find the Oblivion offering to be exceptional.
Quality is a highly subjective thing. You can talk until you're blue in the face about how one thing is better than the other...in the end, it is just your opinion.
My opinion, as I've stated here and in many other posts, is that the industry as a whole is improving. There are more products, there is more variance of product offering, and there is greater depth and subtlety available on the market today. Any individual title may succeed or fail at doing this, but the trend of the industry as a whole is growing by leaps and bounds.
The way I see it, it's consumers like you that bork the market. Pretty graphics and flashy animations are what sells to the less sophisticated generation (yours), unfortunately, they fail to attract the middle-aged male gamer (myself and my generation) because they know they can just feed you guys the same crap with less effort.
Regarding my last post and your response, ianubisi: I have watched television shows from the 40s to the current century. Who says I have to live those years to see what they had on TV? You should seriously reconsider dropping out of elementary school.
I said it before, and I'll say it again, because apparently you have a thick skull, ianubisi: you buy the crap, they keep making the crap. It may not seem like crap to you becaue you have a linear perception of life, or in other words "your head is full of crap". You don't have the experience to know what is innovative or original; so stuff your opinion, it doesn't mean anything in this debate.
I suppose that the fact that I'm older than you has no bearing on your opinion, no? Of course not.
When you're prepared to comment about the impact on society based upon the advent of a particular form of entertainment, either you'd best have been there to have understood it directly or you had best be prepared with the doctoral thesis that has detailed it extensively.
Short of that, you're exercising your right to an opinion.
Yes, the personal attack is the last refuge of a person who knows he has lost his argument.
I enjoy your analysis of my actions in life, which apparently you can see through your magical looking glass. Tell me, what games have I purchased such that you would be able to make such a judgement?
I suppose that the fact that I'm older than you has no bearing on your opinion, no? Of course not.
When you're prepared to comment about the impact on society based upon the advent of a particular form of entertainment, either you'd best have been there to have understood it directly or you had best be prepared with the doctoral thesis that has detailed it extensively.
Short of that, you're exercising your right to an opinion.
Yes, the personal attack is the last refuge of a person who knows he has lost his argument.
I enjoy your analysis of my actions in life, which apparently you can see through your magical looking glass. Tell me, what games have I purchased such that you would be able to make such a judgement?
You see this is why I want people to define what it is that they mean by DEPTH, IMMERSION, QUALITY, etc. I mean artwork and glitzy fx are a part of the over all quality. But then again so are good story telling and the mission and quest interactions, these are what draws one into the entire game. It's kind of like what attracts(-ed) you to your significant other. Usually, it the overall appearance (it this case the artwork) that attracts you, then as you get to know that person you begin to know them and as you begin to get immersed in their life you begin to see the depth of that person. Then can you truely assess the overall quality of that person (in this case game). This completely leaves it up to the person to judge for themselves what is meant by each of these qualities. So, please define depth, immersion, and quality (in your opinion). Anyway, enough of my rambling.
could we please get correspondent writers and moderators, on the eve forum at mmorpg.com, who are well-versed on eve-online and aren't just passersby pushing buttons? pretty please?