Originally posted by Athela Iskareot wrote: I do know that they cannot at all make classic servers now without alot of work and effort. I do not even think it is a wise business concept now.Even though so many people would re-sub in order to play that old game? How is that not a wise business decision? In the aspects of Dev team, animosity between so many things and people.. not to mention the press, cost factor of hardware and bandwidth not to mention bug fixing and just keeping it stable. I think OVERALL there is no way this is viable. I WANT IT TO BE, but I have been in the IT field now over 11 years as a Dir and Admin... this one is just to big and has so many strings attached I cannot even think of all them. Man, imagine working in a office with both teams... Oh man, that alone is just has postal all over it lol. The engine is over 6 years old, the game is not doing well and bottom line there is better stuff coming.Looking at Raph Koster's charts from AGC, Galaxies is fourth in subscriptions numbers after WOW and the EQs. I wouldn't have thought it could be doing that well, but if so, then it seems like a viable game. What is involved in updating the database and converting the game engine to a newer model? Do game companies typically upgrade at some point or do they all run with the original engine? This is a huge process, not only is it hard but your now seeing some of the problems in the NGE.. lag (process lag) is part of the problem now. Imagine the engine as the table of contents for a book. Pointing things in directions, with smoothness and quality. This engine is done. So many things are tied to parts of it. Ever wonder why a mark is still getting stuck in walls or trees after all these years? It is because of Data to mark ratios. As you come into a area, the server does not see you fast enough or know how to calculate where you are vs the mark fast enough due to process lag and internet lag combined. This alone is a core issue (hence why it has not been fixed). But this is a example of why this cant get overhauled. As far as how the game is doing... well that one after 10 months I let stand on it's own with the company president...but thats me. We all wish this went down different, but it didn't. Most people have the sense to know when somthing is not going well or is. I have to think some of the execs do as well. Some of us tried hard to stop this, we advised we were honest and we were serious. At least we tried in the end.You also mention new things that are better coming out. From SOE? Other companies? DC Comics Online I don't think has the same potential audience as Galaxies. Vanguard may draw alot. I'm not seeing anything else from SOE that will appeal to displaced SWG fans. What things do you see coming out, Isk, that have a potential to appeal to the hardcore Galaxies player?
Well, I mean coming in general, Star Trek MMO, Who knows how DC will look and more, I would hope that us Star Wars fans do get another SW MMO that works and is polished from the start, not what this has turned into.
But man I wish this went different. I really thought the game would have a greater game life if this did not happen obvioulsy.
______________________________ I usually picture the Career builder commercial with the room full of monkeys and upside down sales chart when thinking about the SOE/SWG decision making process..... SOE's John Blakely and Todd Fiala issued a warning: "Don't make our mistakes." Ref NGE Winner of the worst MMOS goes to.... the NGE and SWG..!!! http://www.mmorpg.com/showFeature.cfm?loadFeature=1034&bhcp=1
Originally posted by iskareot Originally posted by Shayde Originally posted by iskareot
I do know that they cannot at all make classic servers now without alot of work and effort. I do not even think it is a wise business concept now.
Please.. enlighten us. Idiots didn't backup the code?
No no by all means they have it... we all know this I mean really -- they have drive images, I know better.
But code is like writing your own lingp -- It is in certain context and made a certain way and sometimes different for each coder.
They are gone, 90% of the old team is just gone, crap Koster is gone..lol The only people that could fix or get stable the older images would be them, not only that the time and cost factor would just be hard to sell as a investment of time. It just would.
It's to old now, I mean think about it... do you spend the 1 year it takes now to get a engine going (NEW ONE) the way you need it then code the game for a year (as it takes now give or take) -- Or do you just start over using the info and ideas you had from before that worked?
Just as a business investment I think it is to late. I think that not only would it just cause issues, but man.. imagine what the player base would do? Abort the NGE in 10fold, making things even worse then what they are. I see it now as nothing but a dissaster.
At this point using common sense, the only real option I see is to start over, learn from the mistake of the NGE and stear 100000 miles from that type of game. Skill based, complex, diverse games can work they just need to know that first and go from there.
I tell ya, after having some dialog with Mr. Smedley and realizing how long it's been since beta 2-- I know this is done. It has no future in it's current state and people that play even say "DO YOU THINK WE LIKE THE NGE??" ---- I mean how sad is that? People play the NGE while knowing they hated what it is about and did?
I mean this community is so fucked up from this mess it's not even funny. We argue on how much or who hates the NGE more then each other..lol how wrong is that??
I have learned alot over this last 4.5 years from beta 2 until now, I learned that money and business marketing can ruin a game, I learned that people accept things because of franchise names and alot of HOPE. I learned that people will argue over failure and what level it is at even though failure is failure. I learned that no matter how bad or hard we want somthing as a playerbase we cannot beat the deep pockets of corporation.
On the flip side, I did learn that even a president of that company may have the balls to admit, He messed up and seem to mean it.
I am to the point of just hoping to see this one go away and a new one fill it's place. This one is just to screwed up to make it.
Where did he says this? Can I get a link to something?
Originally posted by iskareot Originally posted by Shayde Originally posted by iskareot
I do know that they cannot at all make classic servers now without alot of work and effort. I do not even think it is a wise business concept now.
Please.. enlighten us. Idiots didn't backup the code?
No no by all means they have it... we all know this I mean really -- they have drive images, I know better.
But code is like writing your own lingp -- It is in certain context and made a certain way and sometimes different for each coder. Which is why any coder worth his/her salt documents their code. Most people will tell you don't go overboard with documentation - WHY?!
They are gone, 90% of the old team is just gone, crap Koster is gone..lol The only people that could fix or get stable the older images would be them, not only that the time and cost factor would just be hard to sell as a investment of time. It just would. Again, if the code were properly documented to begin with, it could be done. Even if they just released the server software as OS, totally unsupported.
It's to old now, I mean think about it... do you spend the 1 year it takes now to get a engine going (NEW ONE) the way you need it then code the game for a year (as it takes now give or take) -- Or do you just start over using the info and ideas you had from before that worked? Are you insinuating they actually have plans to do this? If so, this is intriguing.
Just as a business investment I think it is to late. I think that not only would it just cause issues, but man.. imagine what the player base would do? Abort the NGE in 10fold, making things even worse then what they are. I see it now as nothing but a dissaster. You know as well as anyone that it is already a disaster. If Smedley used this as an excuse to "explain" their current thought pattern to you, it's a poor one.
At this point using common sense, the only real option I see is to start over, learn from the mistake of the NGE and stear 100000 miles from that type of game. Skill based, complex, diverse games can work they just need to know that first and go from there.
I tell ya, after having some dialog with Mr. Smedley and realizing how long it's been since beta 2-- I know this is done. It has no future in it's current state and people that play even say "DO YOU THINK WE LIKE THE NGE??" ---- I mean how sad is that? People play the NGE while knowing they hated what it is about and did?
I mean this community is so fucked up from this mess it's not even funny. We argue on how much or who hates the NGE more then each other..lol how wrong is that??
I have learned alot over this last 4.5 years from beta 2 until now, I learned that money and business marketing can ruin a game, I learned that people accept things because of franchise names and alot of HOPE. I learned that people will argue over failure and what level it is at even though failure is failure. I learned that no matter how bad or hard we want somthing as a playerbase we cannot beat the deep pockets of corporation. It sounds like you are contradicting yourself above, just a little (highlighted in yellow). We had a lot to do with it. We, the disgruntled ex-playerbase of SWG, have successfully turned off a LOT of potential newcomers with our offhand "reviews", comments, and general bitterness. It is conceivable that the NGE could have been a success as they envisioned it. But their implementation ruined any chance of that. When you tell your customers that they are to be sacrificed for new customers, you will end up with neither. We've all thrown that idea around here long enough to know that.
On the flip side, I did learn that even a president of that company may have the balls to admit, He messed up and seem to mean it.
I am to the point of just hoping to see this one go away and a new one fill it's place. This one is just to screwed up to make it. You and I both, friend.
what do you guys think is going to happen to SWG..... new upgrades?? fixs? new engine? or kill off Star wars? well if its true history repeats itself it can onlymean 1 thing... revamp...thats SOE's only solution to every little problem there is.they devolve it to make it simpler and simpler... i would not be surprized if it ends up being a single cell liing organism... oh wait that game already exists and its better than SWG!!
Finally. Someone besides me that "Gets it". Additional comments to yours in blue.
Originally posted by iskareot Originally posted by Shayde Originally posted by iskareot I do know that they cannot at all make classic servers now without alot of work and effort. I do not even think it is a wise business concept now.
Please.. enlighten us. Idiots didn't backup the code?
No no by all means they have it... we all know this I mean really -- they have drive images, I know better.
But code is like writing your own lingp -- It is in certain context and made a certain way and sometimes different for each coder.
They are gone, 90% of the old team is just gone, crap Koster is gone..lol The only people that could fix or get stable the older images would be them, not only that the time and cost factor would just be hard to sell as a investment of time. It just would.
Exactamundo. Noone there understands the original code anymore. Everyone is gone. Helios and Blixtev are the only ones that immediately come to mind, and they came on relatively late in the process (CU). Make no mistake about it: IF classics where put out, things WOULD break. And often. And who would fix it?
It's to old now, I mean think about it... do you spend the 1 year it takes now to get a engine going (NEW ONE) the way you need it then code the game for a year (as it takes now give or take) -- Or do you just start over using the info and ideas you had from before that worked?
Absolutely correct. The ROI doesn't add up. 10,000 subs right now!!! is the usual battlecry. SOE won't so much as fart to get 10,000 subs in the grand scheme of things.
Just as a business investment I think it is to late. I think that not only would it just cause issues, but man.. imagine what the player base would do? Abort the NGE in 10fold, making things even worse then what they are. I see it now as nothing but a dissaster.
Not putting out classics is more of a business decision, than a logistical one in my eyes. Again, the ROI doesn't add up. Boiled down to its simplicity, the number of people that left the game because it was a buggy broken mess aren't very likely to RETURN to a broken buggy mess. Besides, SOE views the "vocal minority" as too big a business risk for the investment needed.
Further, classic SWG requires an inordinate time investment; just to get HARVESTERS going would take what would seem like an eternity....Think back and hard about the processes required just to make a harvester to get resources in the quantities needed to do factory runs for subcomponents...And that is if the resources spawn to MAKE the components requried if they are NAMED resources...
At this point using common sense, the only real option I see is to start over, learn from the mistake of the NGE and stear 100000 miles from that type of game. Skill based, complex, diverse games can work they just need to know that first and go from there.
The phrase you are looking for is: Visualization without execution is pointless. All the grand ideas in the world (which, SWG was full of them) are useless unless you can actually make it happen. Not halfassed. Not borked. Not bugged. But working.
I tell ya, after having some dialog with Mr. Smedley and realizing how long it's been since beta 2-- I know this is done. It has no future in it's current state and people that play even say "DO YOU THINK WE LIKE THE NGE??" ---- I mean how sad is that? People play the NGE while knowing they hated what it is about and did?
Smed ACTUALLY is a pretty stand up guy. But the NGE was out of SOE's hands. If you read between the lines from ALOT of people, it's coming very clear who instigated the whole thing. Lucas Arts. Now, I'll conceed: SOE may NOW be trying to pass the failure of the NGE onto Lucas Arts, or it may be individual people doing their best to distance themselves from it, but they have really started backing off "it was a collaborative effort" mantra they started with the first 9 months of the NGE. See Smeds blog for good incite on the working relationship with LA and the SW IP. He's thrown them under the bus big time. Which, in my eyes, is NOT a good idea. LA people won't forget all that is being said, and could come back to bite the person that said in the ass down the road during future partnership negotiations.
I mean this community is so fucked up from this mess it's not even funny. We argue on how much or who hates the NGE more then each other..lol how wrong is that??
HAHAHAHA! Yup.
I have learned alot over this last 4.5 years from beta 2 until now, I learned that money and business marketing can ruin a game,
SWG never was marketed correctly. It was just tossed out there. The virtual world aspect of it was lost on so many people. They also did a very piss poor job of explaining what the "balance" between professions was in SWG, in contrast to the "balance" between professions in your more typical MMO (rock paper scissor, or standard profession archetypes (healer, tank, nuker, etc)). SW:G originally tried to be all things to all people. It tried to hard to be the jack of all trades. It was the jack of all trades, but it was mostly busted to bupkis.
I learned that people accept things because of franchise names and alot of HOPE.
SWG was special, in my eyes. People desperately wanted it to succeed. There is not another MMO, game, whatever out there that has inspired the passion that SWG has, and continues to thru today.
I learned that people will argue over failure and what level it is at even though failure is failure. I learned that no matter how bad or hard we want somthing as a playerbase we cannot beat the deep pockets of corporation.
The psychological effect the rise and repeated fall SWG has had on people would be a fascinating study. How much did people learn (conditioned?) to cope with until they FINALLY said enough? How much did this acceptance of second best for so long make it's way into normal everyday life for those of us that put with a broken, failed game for so long?
On the flip side, I did learn that even a president of that company may have the balls to admit, He messed up and seem to mean it.
Smed has balls, I'll give him that. But, you know, he's not exactly poor from his Verant days, and I imagine he can have a job at SOE for as long as he wants. It will take shareholders stepping up and getting him out. BUT, he CAN sit back and watch it happen and collect the money, or he can do what he can do about it. Which, is what he's been doing the last year.
Do you really think the president of Vivendi/Blizzard would take time out to answer what I would imagine to be hundreds of emails a day?
I will conceed that to me, SOE is on a big time grassroots campaign, that it's all a big PR move: Taking their triple helpings of humble pie, reaching out, etc. It just seems so orchestrated. It's all too neat. Too many people are showing up at the same time saying the same thing (We fucked up, we wouldnt do it again, don't do what we do). And in my eyes, it's the wrong move. The best thing they can do is distance themselves away from the failure, not acknowledge it, and move FORWARD. It's not as if anything they do is going to CHANGE the fact that it happened. You know what Jack Nickolaus' response is if you ask him if he ever missed a putt? He'll tell you he NEVER missed a putt, because in his head, he believes that - that he made the right putt everytime, but things out of his control kept the ball from going in the hole. SOE needs to stand firm in their belief that the NGE was the right thing to do, regardless of what any of us armchair quarterbacks think.
I am to the point of just hoping to see this one go away and a new one fill it's place. This one is just to screwed up to make it.
Gonna be a while....
BioWare is making a fantasy diku hack and slash MMO (read: WoW clone), NOT KOTOR MMORPG or SWG2. Before you ask, I've got my sources, and no I am not giving them up. But you're looking at 3-4 years before it hits the shelves....
Tabula Rasa looks like NGE without the SWG (Same basic combat system - twitchy without being FPS, lack of social aspect, lack of crafting).
Stargate Worlds is stumbing badly.
Star Trek Online looks like it would bore me to tears
Spacetime Studios/NCSoft is MAKING an MMO, spacebased, but its 4 years away from release...IF it ever gets off the ground. Tabula Rasa very well could just about bankrupt NCSoft if it's not a hit, Richard Garriots millions be damned. They've sunk double the development investment cost into that game, since they scraped it near beta testing and started over.
You're looking at a low, horrible 3-5 years in MMO land.... Which sucks.
Originally posted by Gozzar Originally posted by Shayde I think THEIR idea of a big announcement and OUR idea of a big announcement is two different things.
But I think you're confusing my posts with someone else's. I said that I had an anonymous e-mail that said that there's a big announcement coming "soon". I didn't believe it since it really said nothing else, nor did it come from a known source.
Smed's been ignoring my e-mails. Isk got those.
you think smedly cares about your mails ? get real.. drop swg.
Dude.. read my flipping avitar quote or something.. I've been off SWG since the day the nge pushed.
Shayde - SWG (dead) Proud member of the Cabal.
It sounds great, so great in fact, I pitty those who canceled - Some deluded SWG fanboi who pities me. I don't like it when you say things. - A Vanguard fan who does too. 09f911029d74e35bd84156c5635688c0
That's just an excuse. If they set it up with old code and a couple maintenence guys they're fine. Smed's just adding all these bullshit excuses to make it seem like a herculean task. The code isn't written in KLINGON FFS.
They put the servers up with the WORKING code (they're trying to make it look broken, it worked fine to me). They let us play the damn game.
Either that, or release the damn code to the ducks. If the code is so damn tough, how are they re-engineering it so well? They didn't have to manually code every server restart, every resource spawn.. they just clicked a few buttons on the interface and made it so.
That's just a b.s. excuse. How many maintenence guys are still original coders of EQ? Of MxO? of ANY game for that matter. He's just throwing you a line of BS. Corporate doublespeak dipped in choclate to make it easier for you to swallow.
Shayde - SWG (dead) Proud member of the Cabal.
It sounds great, so great in fact, I pitty those who canceled - Some deluded SWG fanboi who pities me. I don't like it when you say things. - A Vanguard fan who does too. 09f911029d74e35bd84156c5635688c0
I think the real reasons they can't or won't do classic servers are not technical.
There is a big risk that the only players won't come back. I know I wouldn't. I don't want a new classic server. I want Radiant (and all other servers for that matter) reverted to November 14th, 2005. Nothing else would even get me to consider coming back.
I am just not going to regrind Jedi. And honestly, i don't SOE to stick with it. They lied to us. They tried to defraud us. I am not going to trust them with my gaming time.
I agree with the comments about the bleak MMO landscape. The only thing that is remotely appealing is Vanguard, and that is not an option because SOE is involved with it.
That's just an excuse. If they set it up with old code and a couple maintenence guys they're fine. Smed's just adding all these bullshit excuses to make it seem like a herculean task. The code isn't written in KLINGON FFS.
They put the servers up with the WORKING code (they're trying to make it look broken, it worked fine to me). They let us play the damn game.
Either that, or release the damn code to the ducks. If the code is so damn tough, how are they re-engineering it so well? They didn't have to manually code every server restart, every resource spawn.. they just clicked a few buttons on the interface and made it so.
That's just a b.s. excuse. How many maintenence guys are still original coders of EQ? Of MxO? of ANY game for that matter. He's just throwing you a line of BS. Corporate doublespeak dipped in choclate to make it easier for you to swallow.
I believe as many do the reason is simply licensing. Hell they have 3 test centers they could take one and make it pre-cu. After all TC had a different client.
Common sense indicates that they cannot do a classic due to licensing. They could have engineered a launchpad that had you click Classic or TC and launched the client and they could have restored Pre-cu code to the server. Isk if you believe that it was impossible you are sort of being silly. I might believe they may not have a backup tape of the pre-cu data it being almost 2 years or more. I know my tape library is set to start recycling tapes after 2 years.
Originally posted by Shayde Originally posted by Gozzar Originally posted by Shayde I think THEIR idea of a big announcement and OUR idea of a big announcement is two different things.
But I think you're confusing my posts with someone else's. I said that I had an anonymous e-mail that said that there's a big announcement coming "soon". I didn't believe it since it really said nothing else, nor did it come from a known source.
Smed's been ignoring my e-mails. Isk got those.
you think smedly cares about your mails ? get real.. drop swg.
Dude.. read my flipping avitar quote or something.. I've been off SWG since the day the nge pushed.
Originally posted by haxxjoo Originally posted by Shayde And Isk...
That's just an excuse. If they set it up with old code and a couple maintenence guys they're fine. Smed's just adding all these bullshit excuses to make it seem like a herculean task. The code isn't written in KLINGON FFS.
They put the servers up with the WORKING code (they're trying to make it look broken, it worked fine to me). They let us play the damn game.
Either that, or release the damn code to the ducks. If the code is so damn tough, how are they re-engineering it so well? They didn't have to manually code every server restart, every resource spawn.. they just clicked a few buttons on the interface and made it so.
That's just a b.s. excuse. How many maintenence guys are still original coders of EQ? Of MxO? of ANY game for that matter. He's just throwing you a line of BS. Corporate doublespeak dipped in choclate to make it easier for you to swallow.
I believe as many do the reason is simply licensing. Hell they have 3 test centers they could take one and make it pre-cu. After all TC had a different client.
Common sense indicates that they cannot do a classic due to licensing. They could have engineered a launchpad that had you click Classic or TC and launched the client and they could have restored Pre-cu code to the server. Isk if you believe that it was impossible you are sort of being silly. I might believe they may not have a backup tape of the pre-cu data it being almost 2 years or more. I know my tape library is set to start recycling tapes after 2 years.
Then if it is a licensing issue they should flat out SAY SO. It would put the ball in LA's court really and the blame on their doorstep for not allowing a classic server.
A simple "We can only run one version of SWG due to the licensing agreement and we support the nge".
That's why I don't believe that is the truth. They'd have been HAPPY to defer that heat to LA in a second. They've already made stupid comments blaming LA for the mess before. If that were the case, they'd have done it already.
Shayde - SWG (dead) Proud member of the Cabal.
It sounds great, so great in fact, I pitty those who canceled - Some deluded SWG fanboi who pities me. I don't like it when you say things. - A Vanguard fan who does too. 09f911029d74e35bd84156c5635688c0
Comments
Well, I mean coming in general, Star Trek MMO, Who knows how DC will look and more, I would hope that us Star Wars fans do get another SW MMO that works and is polished from the start, not what this has turned into.
But man I wish this went different. I really thought the game would have a greater game life if this did not happen obvioulsy.
______________________________
I usually picture the Career builder commercial with the room full of monkeys and upside down sales chart when thinking about the SOE/SWG decision making process.....
SOE's John Blakely and Todd Fiala issued a warning: "Don't make our mistakes." Ref NGE
Winner of the worst MMOS goes to.... the NGE and SWG..!!! http://www.mmorpg.com/showFeature.cfm?loadFeature=1034&bhcp=1
No no by all means they have it... we all know this I mean really -- they have drive images, I know better.
But code is like writing your own lingp -- It is in certain context and made a certain way and sometimes different for each coder.
They are gone, 90% of the old team is just gone, crap Koster is gone..lol The only people that could fix or get stable the older images would be them, not only that the time and cost factor would just be hard to sell as a investment of time. It just would.
It's to old now, I mean think about it... do you spend the 1 year it takes now to get a engine going (NEW ONE) the way you need it then code the game for a year (as it takes now give or take) -- Or do you just start over using the info and ideas you had from before that worked?
Just as a business investment I think it is to late. I think that not only would it just cause issues, but man.. imagine what the player base would do? Abort the NGE in 10fold, making things even worse then what they are. I see it now as nothing but a dissaster.
At this point using common sense, the only real option I see is to start over, learn from the mistake of the NGE and stear 100000 miles from that type of game. Skill based, complex, diverse games can work they just need to know that first and go from there.
I tell ya, after having some dialog with Mr. Smedley and realizing how long it's been since beta 2-- I know this is done. It has no future in it's current state and people that play even say "DO YOU THINK WE LIKE THE NGE??" ---- I mean how sad is that? People play the NGE while knowing they hated what it is about and did?
I mean this community is so fucked up from this mess it's not even funny. We argue on how much or who hates the NGE more then each other..lol how wrong is that??
I have learned alot over this last 4.5 years from beta 2 until now, I learned that money and business marketing can ruin a game, I learned that people accept things because of franchise names and alot of HOPE. I learned that people will argue over failure and what level it is at even though failure is failure. I learned that no matter how bad or hard we want somthing as a playerbase we cannot beat the deep pockets of corporation.
On the flip side, I did learn that even a president of that company may have the balls to admit, He messed up and seem to mean it.
I am to the point of just hoping to see this one go away and a new one fill it's place. This one is just to screwed up to make it.
Where did he says this? Can I get a link to something?
No no by all means they have it... we all know this I mean really -- they have drive images, I know better.
But code is like writing your own lingp -- It is in certain context and made a certain way and sometimes different for each coder. Which is why any coder worth his/her salt documents their code. Most people will tell you don't go overboard with documentation - WHY?!
They are gone, 90% of the old team is just gone, crap Koster is gone..lol The only people that could fix or get stable the older images would be them, not only that the time and cost factor would just be hard to sell as a investment of time. It just would. Again, if the code were properly documented to begin with, it could be done. Even if they just released the server software as OS, totally unsupported.
It's to old now, I mean think about it... do you spend the 1 year it takes now to get a engine going (NEW ONE) the way you need it then code the game for a year (as it takes now give or take) -- Or do you just start over using the info and ideas you had from before that worked? Are you insinuating they actually have plans to do this? If so, this is intriguing.
Just as a business investment I think it is to late. I think that not only would it just cause issues, but man.. imagine what the player base would do? Abort the NGE in 10fold, making things even worse then what they are. I see it now as nothing but a dissaster. You know as well as anyone that it is already a disaster. If Smedley used this as an excuse to "explain" their current thought pattern to you, it's a poor one.
At this point using common sense, the only real option I see is to start over, learn from the mistake of the NGE and stear 100000 miles from that type of game. Skill based, complex, diverse games can work they just need to know that first and go from there.
I tell ya, after having some dialog with Mr. Smedley and realizing how long it's been since beta 2-- I know this is done. It has no future in it's current state and people that play even say "DO YOU THINK WE LIKE THE NGE??" ---- I mean how sad is that? People play the NGE while knowing they hated what it is about and did?
I mean this community is so fucked up from this mess it's not even funny. We argue on how much or who hates the NGE more then each other..lol how wrong is that??
I have learned alot over this last 4.5 years from beta 2 until now, I learned that money and business marketing can ruin a game, I learned that people accept things because of franchise names and alot of HOPE. I learned that people will argue over failure and what level it is at even though failure is failure. I learned that no matter how bad or hard we want somthing as a playerbase we cannot beat the deep pockets of corporation. It sounds like you are contradicting yourself above, just a little (highlighted in yellow). We had a lot to do with it. We, the disgruntled ex-playerbase of SWG, have successfully turned off a LOT of potential newcomers with our offhand "reviews", comments, and general bitterness. It is conceivable that the NGE could have been a success as they envisioned it. But their implementation ruined any chance of that. When you tell your customers that they are to be sacrificed for new customers, you will end up with neither. We've all thrown that idea around here long enough to know that.
On the flip side, I did learn that even a president of that company may have the balls to admit, He messed up and seem to mean it.
I am to the point of just hoping to see this one go away and a new one fill it's place. This one is just to screwed up to make it. You and I both, friend.
There's a sucker born every minute. - P.T. Barnum
well if its true history repeats itself it can onlymean 1 thing... revamp...thats SOE's only solution to every little problem there is.they devolve it to make it simpler and simpler...
i would not be surprized if it ends up being a single cell liing organism... oh wait that game already exists and its better than SWG!!
No no by all means they have it... we all know this I mean really -- they have drive images, I know better.
But code is like writing your own lingp -- It is in certain context and made a certain way and sometimes different for each coder.
They are gone, 90% of the old team is just gone, crap Koster is gone..lol The only people that could fix or get stable the older images would be them, not only that the time and cost factor would just be hard to sell as a investment of time. It just would.
Exactamundo. Noone there understands the original code anymore. Everyone is gone. Helios and Blixtev are the only ones that immediately come to mind, and they came on relatively late in the process (CU). Make no mistake about it: IF classics where put out, things WOULD break. And often. And who would fix it?
It's to old now, I mean think about it... do you spend the 1 year it takes now to get a engine going (NEW ONE) the way you need it then code the game for a year (as it takes now give or take) -- Or do you just start over using the info and ideas you had from before that worked?
Absolutely correct. The ROI doesn't add up. 10,000 subs right now!!! is the usual battlecry. SOE won't so much as fart to get 10,000 subs in the grand scheme of things.
Just as a business investment I think it is to late. I think that not only would it just cause issues, but man.. imagine what the player base would do? Abort the NGE in 10fold, making things even worse then what they are. I see it now as nothing but a dissaster.
Not putting out classics is more of a business decision, than a logistical one in my eyes. Again, the ROI doesn't add up. Boiled down to its simplicity, the number of people that left the game because it was a buggy broken mess aren't very likely to RETURN to a broken buggy mess. Besides, SOE views the "vocal minority" as too big a business risk for the investment needed.
Further, classic SWG requires an inordinate time investment; just to get HARVESTERS going would take what would seem like an eternity....Think back and hard about the processes required just to make a harvester to get resources in the quantities needed to do factory runs for subcomponents...And that is if the resources spawn to MAKE the components requried if they are NAMED resources...
At this point using common sense, the only real option I see is to start over, learn from the mistake of the NGE and stear 100000 miles from that type of game. Skill based, complex, diverse games can work they just need to know that first and go from there.
The phrase you are looking for is: Visualization without execution is pointless. All the grand ideas in the world (which, SWG was full of them) are useless unless you can actually make it happen. Not halfassed. Not borked. Not bugged. But working.
I tell ya, after having some dialog with Mr. Smedley and realizing how long it's been since beta 2-- I know this is done. It has no future in it's current state and people that play even say "DO YOU THINK WE LIKE THE NGE??" ---- I mean how sad is that? People play the NGE while knowing they hated what it is about and did?
Smed ACTUALLY is a pretty stand up guy. But the NGE was out of SOE's hands. If you read between the lines from ALOT of people, it's coming very clear who instigated the whole thing. Lucas Arts. Now, I'll conceed: SOE may NOW be trying to pass the failure of the NGE onto Lucas Arts, or it may be individual people doing their best to distance themselves from it, but they have really started backing off "it was a collaborative effort" mantra they started with the first 9 months of the NGE. See Smeds blog for good incite on the working relationship with LA and the SW IP. He's thrown them under the bus big time. Which, in my eyes, is NOT a good idea. LA people won't forget all that is being said, and could come back to bite the person that said in the ass down the road during future partnership negotiations.
I mean this community is so fucked up from this mess it's not even funny. We argue on how much or who hates the NGE more then each other..lol how wrong is that??
HAHAHAHA! Yup.
I have learned alot over this last 4.5 years from beta 2 until now, I learned that money and business marketing can ruin a game,
SWG never was marketed correctly. It was just tossed out there. The virtual world aspect of it was lost on so many people. They also did a very piss poor job of explaining what the "balance" between professions was in SWG, in contrast to the "balance" between professions in your more typical MMO (rock paper scissor, or standard profession archetypes (healer, tank, nuker, etc)). SW:G originally tried to be all things to all people. It tried to hard to be the jack of all trades. It was the jack of all trades, but it was mostly busted to bupkis.
I learned that people accept things because of franchise names and alot of HOPE.
SWG was special, in my eyes. People desperately wanted it to succeed. There is not another MMO, game, whatever out there that has inspired the passion that SWG has, and continues to thru today.
I learned that people will argue over failure and what level it is at even though failure is failure. I learned that no matter how bad or hard we want somthing as a playerbase we cannot beat the deep pockets of corporation.
The psychological effect the rise and repeated fall SWG has had on people would be a fascinating study. How much did people learn (conditioned?) to cope with until they FINALLY said enough? How much did this acceptance of second best for so long make it's way into normal everyday life for those of us that put with a broken, failed game for so long?
On the flip side, I did learn that even a president of that company may have the balls to admit, He messed up and seem to mean it.
Smed has balls, I'll give him that. But, you know, he's not exactly poor from his Verant days, and I imagine he can have a job at SOE for as long as he wants. It will take shareholders stepping up and getting him out. BUT, he CAN sit back and watch it happen and collect the money, or he can do what he can do about it. Which, is what he's been doing the last year.
Do you really think the president of Vivendi/Blizzard would take time out to answer what I would imagine to be hundreds of emails a day?
I will conceed that to me, SOE is on a big time grassroots campaign, that it's all a big PR move: Taking their triple helpings of humble pie, reaching out, etc. It just seems so orchestrated. It's all too neat. Too many people are showing up at the same time saying the same thing (We fucked up, we wouldnt do it again, don't do what we do). And in my eyes, it's the wrong move. The best thing they can do is distance themselves away from the failure, not acknowledge it, and move FORWARD. It's not as if anything they do is going to CHANGE the fact that it happened. You know what Jack Nickolaus' response is if you ask him if he ever missed a putt? He'll tell you he NEVER missed a putt, because in his head, he believes that - that he made the right putt everytime, but things out of his control kept the ball from going in the hole. SOE needs to stand firm in their belief that the NGE was the right thing to do, regardless of what any of us armchair quarterbacks think.
I am to the point of just hoping to see this one go away and a new one fill it's place. This one is just to screwed up to make it.
Gonna be a while....
BioWare is making a fantasy diku hack and slash MMO (read: WoW clone), NOT KOTOR MMORPG or SWG2. Before you ask, I've got my sources, and no I am not giving them up. But you're looking at 3-4 years before it hits the shelves....
Tabula Rasa looks like NGE without the SWG (Same basic combat system - twitchy without being FPS, lack of social aspect, lack of crafting).
Stargate Worlds is stumbing badly.
Star Trek Online looks like it would bore me to tears
Spacetime Studios/NCSoft is MAKING an MMO, spacebased, but its 4 years away from release...IF it ever gets off the ground. Tabula Rasa very well could just about bankrupt NCSoft if it's not a hit, Richard Garriots millions be damned. They've sunk double the development investment cost into that game, since they scraped it near beta testing and started over.
You're looking at a low, horrible 3-5 years in MMO land....
Which sucks.
Dude.. read my flipping avitar quote or something.. I've been off SWG since the day the nge pushed.
Shayde - SWG (dead)
Proud member of the Cabal.
It sounds great, so great in fact, I pitty those who canceled
I don't like it when you say things. - A Vanguard fan who does too.
09f911029d74e35bd84156c5635688c0
That's just an excuse. If they set it up with old code and a couple maintenence guys they're fine. Smed's just adding all these bullshit excuses to make it seem like a herculean task. The code isn't written in KLINGON FFS.
They put the servers up with the WORKING code (they're trying to make it look broken, it worked fine to me). They let us play the damn game.
Either that, or release the damn code to the ducks. If the code is so damn tough, how are they re-engineering it so well? They didn't have to manually code every server restart, every resource spawn.. they just clicked a few buttons on the interface and made it so.
That's just a b.s. excuse. How many maintenence guys are still original coders of EQ? Of MxO? of ANY game for that matter. He's just throwing you a line of BS. Corporate doublespeak dipped in choclate to make it easier for you to swallow.
Shayde - SWG (dead)
Proud member of the Cabal.
It sounds great, so great in fact, I pitty those who canceled
I don't like it when you say things. - A Vanguard fan who does too.
09f911029d74e35bd84156c5635688c0
I think the real reasons they can't or won't do classic servers are not technical.
There is a big risk that the only players won't come back. I know I wouldn't. I don't want a new classic server. I want Radiant (and all other servers for that matter) reverted to November 14th, 2005. Nothing else would even get me to consider coming back.
I am just not going to regrind Jedi. And honestly, i don't SOE to stick with it. They lied to us. They tried to defraud us. I am not going to trust them with my gaming time.
I agree with the comments about the bleak MMO landscape. The only thing that is remotely appealing is Vanguard, and that is not an option because SOE is involved with it.
I believe as many do the reason is simply licensing. Hell they have 3 test centers they could take one and make it pre-cu. After all TC had a different client.
Common sense indicates that they cannot do a classic due to licensing. They could have engineered a launchpad that had you click Classic or TC and launched the client and they could have restored Pre-cu code to the server. Isk if you believe that it was impossible you are sort of being silly. I might believe they may not have a backup tape of the pre-cu data it being almost 2 years or more. I know my tape library is set to start recycling tapes after 2 years.
Dude.. read my flipping avitar quote or something.. I've been off SWG since the day the nge pushed.
I believe as many do the reason is simply licensing. Hell they have 3 test centers they could take one and make it pre-cu. After all TC had a different client.
Common sense indicates that they cannot do a classic due to licensing. They could have engineered a launchpad that had you click Classic or TC and launched the client and they could have restored Pre-cu code to the server. Isk if you believe that it was impossible you are sort of being silly. I might believe they may not have a backup tape of the pre-cu data it being almost 2 years or more. I know my tape library is set to start recycling tapes after 2 years.
Then if it is a licensing issue they should flat out SAY SO. It would put the ball in LA's court really and the blame on their doorstep for not allowing a classic server.
A simple "We can only run one version of SWG due to the licensing agreement and we support the nge".
That's why I don't believe that is the truth. They'd have been HAPPY to defer that heat to LA in a second. They've already made stupid comments blaming LA for the mess before. If that were the case, they'd have done it already.
Shayde - SWG (dead)
Proud member of the Cabal.
It sounds great, so great in fact, I pitty those who canceled
I don't like it when you say things. - A Vanguard fan who does too.
09f911029d74e35bd84156c5635688c0