OK, they MAY have admitted it, but that's a little debatable. Admitting something and refusing to fix it can be worse than refusing to admit it in the first place. They're still refusing to FIX their mistake. Actions speak louder than words and until they FIX their mistake, it's all just corporate PR and BS.
SWG Tempest: Cardo Dycen RIP Eve: Cardoh Dycen I support random drug testing for all SOE employees
Originally posted by JediGeek OK, they MAY have admitted it, but that's a little debatable. Admitting something and refusing to fix it can be worse than refusing to admit it in the first place. They're still refusing to FIX their mistake. Actions speak louder than words and until they FIX their mistake, it's all just corporate PR and BS.
Have you seen Fight Club? Well, good movie, great book... that said, the story about Auto Makers avoiding recalls unless the number they would pay out in damages exceeds the number it would cost them to fix the problem... well, that was VERY true, and still is in some cases. If you go to the DoT website there's a link buried in there where you can review reported issues the manufacturers know about, but don't do recalls on. These days, automakers also weigh the Marketing & Spin costs, plus the amount to fix the negative press for major issues, but it's still all about the math...
The math is obvious in this case, and if there's even a remote chance that LA & they would consider a rollback, then it's still on the table for someone in the foodchain...
I'll start my own SWG... with Black Jack... and Hookers!!!
I think its very telling that they only admit that how they introduced the NGE was a problem not WHAT they did , It's ok to murder someone as long as you do it nicely .
Originally posted by MX13 Originally posted by JediGeek OK, they MAY have admitted it, but that's a little debatable. Admitting something and refusing to fix it can be worse than refusing to admit it in the first place. They're still refusing to FIX their mistake. Actions speak louder than words and until they FIX their mistake, it's all just corporate PR and BS.
Have you seen Fight Club? Well, good movie, great book... that said, the story about Auto Makers avoiding recalls unless the number they would pay out in damages exceeds the number it would cost them to fix the problem... well, that was VERY true, and still is in some cases. If you go to the DoT website there's a link buried in there where you can review reported issues the manufacturers know about, but don't do recalls on. These days, automakers also weigh the Marketing & Spin costs, plus the amount to fix the negative press for major issues, but it's still all about the math...
The math is obvious in this case, and if there's even a remote chance that LA & they would consider a rollback, then it's still on the table for someone in the foodchain...
Well, this is how air traffic industry operates.
So, next time you sit into an airplane, realize, that each known defect in an aircraft has been verified by accountants. And the probability of damages caused by that defect is smaller than cost of fixing it.
Simply put: $2 mil * prob_death < cost_of_repair * num_airplanes
I think they calculate damages at $2 mil per person. So there you have it. Your safety depends on an extremly simple formula.
This goes for all engineering. There are some defects which cannot be completely removed. As such, their potential cost is evaluated and factored into cost of operation. This is, not surprisingly, how insurance companies operate.
Originally posted by MX13 Originally posted by Spathotan Admiting it dosent mean they will "take back" that mistake. The mistake they are refering to is the delivery of the NGE, not the actual NGE. I think SoE will eventually go back on their word and open classic servers, but they wont get rid of the NGE.
I have to disagree... they repeatedly talk about "the audience you have" & "not making major changes after it's live"... that clearly says the NGE itself was a mistake...
I agree, they'll keep it, but I think you're dead on about Classic Servers... that's about 150 mil annually sitting out there... and they are WAY too greedy to not go after it someway...
That's incredibly optimistic on how many people would come back for Classic Servers. I, for one, wouldn't ... not if Smedley's band of merry morons are still running them (into the ground).
SOE wants my money, they can sell pre-CU server code as a new CD ... that I'd buy, and put in the hands of people competent to mod it. But my monthly fees paying Smed's salary? Can't see it. Fairly sure tens of thoussands of people feel the same way.
Originally posted by Manasseh Originally posted by maxanto Honesty in its finest! Enjoy that read... I sure did!
This article helps to show how retarded, stubborn and bull-headed $oE really is.
"But you know, part of my reason for presenting this and talking about it is I want to educate - I want people to learn what we've learned in that process".Yes.. tell us your ways oh wise one. Your a seasoned pro at pissing off your customers. By the way.. part of learning from your mistakes is not making the same mistake over and over, and going back and fixing the mistake...if it can be fixed.
"There was some really positive stuff, and the game now is as solid as it's ever been, our people have done a great job"What are you smoking?As solid as its ever been? Really positive stuff? Thats why you have less then half of your former subscribers since the NGE came out?
"we got the bug count down to about half of what it's been in the past six months." This is something to brag about? What decent mmorpg doesnt have half its bug count down after being on the market for over 3 years? Now how about giving crafters and entertainers a friggin purpose. Or maybe giving me back my teras kasi abilty or creature handeling abilty... you ass.
Fiala said there was "perceived to be a timing opportunity" related to "product placement and product marketing" of Star Wars Galaxies, and reiterated the importance of listening to "the market you have" when making decisions about a game already in production.Again... learning from a mistake... means fixing it. $oE has showed that they havent learned a damn thing. SoE... fix it! Get rid of this stupid NGE! Or give access to a pre-cu server. You could at least double your subscribers.
Does it matter? We all knew the truth to begin with. And they tried so hard to fool us all and hide the truth that they cannot possible ever ever EVER deserve any credits for "admiting" their mistakes.
The only reason they ever would admit was if they truly were cornered or if they HAD to do it by any economical means.
$OE lies list http://www.rlmmo.com/viewtopic.php?t=424&start=0 " And I don't want to hear anything about "I don't believe in vampires" because *I* don't believe in vampires, but I believe in my own two eyes, and what *I* saw is ******* vampires! "
Originally posted by KzinKiller Originally posted by MX13 Originally posted by Spathotan Admiting it dosent mean they will "take back" that mistake. The mistake they are refering to is the delivery of the NGE, not the actual NGE. I think SoE will eventually go back on their word and open classic servers, but they wont get rid of the NGE.
I have to disagree... they repeatedly talk about "the audience you have" & "not making major changes after it's live"... that clearly says the NGE itself was a mistake...
I agree, they'll keep it, but I think you're dead on about Classic Servers... that's about 150 mil annually sitting out there... and they are WAY too greedy to not go after it someway...
That's incredibly optimistic on how many people would come back for Classic Servers. I, for one, wouldn't ... not if Smedley's band of merry morons are still running them (into the ground).
SOE wants my money, they can sell pre-CU server code as a new CD ... that I'd buy, and put in the hands of people competent to mod it. But my monthly fees paying Smed's salary? Can't see it. Fairly sure tens of thoussands of people feel the same way.
Agreed. I'm not going to touch a SoE game again. It's too late, my friends have moved on (and so have I) and even if they hadn't I'd have serious problems going back to a SoE game because I don't believe that they mean what they say about staying with the community they have. If they see another imagined chance to double their possible playerbase by selling out their current one they'll take it in a heart beat. They'd jsut try to 'spin' it better a second time around.
There was some really positive stuff, and the game now is as solid as it's ever been, our people have done a great job – we got the bug count down to about half of what it's been in the past six months."
Oh YIII I feel for doing some math! SOE style!
SWG pre-NGE statistics:
- Game content: 100%
- Number of bugs: 50
- Bug frequency: 50%
SWG post-NGE statistics:
- Game content: 50%
- Number of bugs 25
- Bug frequency: 50%
--------------------------------
Oh yes, it's gotten MUCH better now! By cutting off half of all the content you gotta remove the bugs aswell right? Indeed a smart move.
$OE lies list http://www.rlmmo.com/viewtopic.php?t=424&start=0 " And I don't want to hear anything about "I don't believe in vampires" because *I* don't believe in vampires, but I believe in my own two eyes, and what *I* saw is ******* vampires! "
"But you know, part of my reason for presenting this and talking about it is I want to educate - I want people to learn what we've learned in that process. We took a big risk, and we learned. There was some really positive stuff, and the game now is as solid as it's ever been, our people have done a great job – we got the bug count down to about half of what it's been in the past six months. But what I would have done differently was be more sensitive to the target audience. The audience you launch with is the one you've got."
Translation
"We didn't make any money, in fact we lost customers. The angry customers haven't shut up and gone away and our poor number of current customers confirms this. So since we're going to be selling SWG: Complete soon we need to do some PR stunts like this, it costs little and it increases forecasts for box sales. So we admit to being insensitive, that's why SWG subs have plummeted. However that'll be all changing come christmass!"
Not what I'd call honesty nor an admission of being crap (in my opinion).
Anything I've posted here is not fact and is just my opinion nor is it meant to flame/offend nor harrass anyone or any company. Actually this is just all fantasy made up in my head, forum mods please take note, thankyou.
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience"
By removing the entire game, you can automaticly remove every single bug! It's fast, it's easy!
$OE lies list http://www.rlmmo.com/viewtopic.php?t=424&start=0 " And I don't want to hear anything about "I don't believe in vampires" because *I* don't believe in vampires, but I believe in my own two eyes, and what *I* saw is ******* vampires! "
Originally posted by Agricola1 "But you know, part of my reason for presenting this and talking about it is I want to educate - I want people to learn what we've learned in that process. We took a big risk, and we learned. There was some really positive stuff, and the game now is as solid as it's ever been, our people have done a great job – we got the bug count down to about half of what it's been in the past six months. But what I would have done differently was be more sensitive to the target audience. The audience you launch with is the one you've got."
Translation "We didn't make any money, in fact we lost customers. The angry customers haven't shut up and gone away and our poor number of current customers confirms this. So since we're going to be selling SWG: Complete soon we need to do some PR stunts like this, it costs little and it increases forecasts for box sales. So we admit to being insensitive, that's why SWG subs have plummeted. However that'll be all changing come christmass!"
Not what I'd call honesty nor an admission of being crap (in my opinion). Anything I've posted here is not fact and is just my opinion nor is it meant to flame/offend nor harrass anyone or any company. Actually this is just all fantasy made up in my head, forum mods please take note, thankyou.
lol, nicely put. The old customers still haven't moved on, even the people who cancelled years ago still talk about the mistakes, really says something. This game really became a big part in peoples gaming lives, so when something happend like the NGE, people started defending the pre-cu so passionatly, SOE finally pays attention... maybe
"But what I would have done differently was be more sensitive to the target audience. The audience you launch with is the one you've got."
OMG, 3 years and they finaly get it.
"you're making the game for your audience, not for yourself."
WTF 2 sentences that make some freaking sense from SOE. Again why did it take 3 years.
"Fiala said the team wasn't focused on their task list right away"
uhm....can I get a no shit here.
"Finally, when the product is on shelves, it's important to accurately solicit player feedback, and take it seriously."
wow he is on a roll, what caused this great epiphany.
"a big risk" that represented a push for a new market of customers, but that it "did not intersect fully with the market that we had."
I think losing half your player base and the very angy forums proved this already.
So He is saying, Meh we screwed over the people that were already playing in order to target a different group of players, and uh...hehe hehe hehe....uhhh..hehe hehe uhhh we messed up Bevis.
Originally posted by DuraheLL There was some really positive stuff, and the game now is as solid as it's ever been, our people have done a great job – we got the bug count down to about half of what it's been in the past six months." Oh YIII I feel for doing some math! SOE style! SWG pre-NGE statistics: - Game content: 100% - Number of bugs: 50 - Bug frequency: 50% SWG post-NGE statistics: - Game content: 50% - Number of bugs 25 - Bug frequency: 50% -------------------------------- Oh yes, it's gotten MUCH better now! By cutting off half of all the content you gotta remove the bugs aswell right? Indeed a smart move.
There are not anymore enough players to figure out the number of the bugs, so it is very possible to be the same, but nobody figured out
Comments
SWG Tempest: Cardo Dycen RIP
Eve: Cardoh Dycen
I support random drug testing for all SOE employees
Have you seen Fight Club? Well, good movie, great book... that said, the story about Auto Makers avoiding recalls unless the number they would pay out in damages exceeds the number it would cost them to fix the problem... well, that was VERY true, and still is in some cases. If you go to the DoT website there's a link buried in there where you can review reported issues the manufacturers know about, but don't do recalls on. These days, automakers also weigh the Marketing & Spin costs, plus the amount to fix the negative press for major issues, but it's still all about the math...
The math is obvious in this case, and if there's even a remote chance that LA & they would consider a rollback, then it's still on the table for someone in the foodchain...
I'll start my own SWG... with Black Jack... and Hookers!!!
In fact, forget the SWG!!!!
Have you seen Fight Club? Well, good movie, great book... that said, the story about Auto Makers avoiding recalls unless the number they would pay out in damages exceeds the number it would cost them to fix the problem... well, that was VERY true, and still is in some cases. If you go to the DoT website there's a link buried in there where you can review reported issues the manufacturers know about, but don't do recalls on. These days, automakers also weigh the Marketing & Spin costs, plus the amount to fix the negative press for major issues, but it's still all about the math...
The math is obvious in this case, and if there's even a remote chance that LA & they would consider a rollback, then it's still on the table for someone in the foodchain...
Well, this is how air traffic industry operates.
So, next time you sit into an airplane, realize, that each known defect in an aircraft has been verified by accountants. And the probability of damages caused by that defect is smaller than cost of fixing it.
Simply put: $2 mil * prob_death < cost_of_repair * num_airplanes
I think they calculate damages at $2 mil per person. So there you have it. Your safety depends on an extremly simple formula.
This goes for all engineering. There are some defects which cannot be completely removed. As such, their potential cost is evaluated and factored into cost of operation. This is, not surprisingly, how insurance companies operate.
The cost of business at its finest.
I have to disagree... they repeatedly talk about "the audience you have" & "not making major changes after it's live"... that clearly says the NGE itself was a mistake...
I agree, they'll keep it, but I think you're dead on about Classic Servers... that's about 150 mil annually sitting out there... and they are WAY too greedy to not go after it someway...
That's incredibly optimistic on how many people would come back for Classic Servers. I, for one, wouldn't ... not if Smedley's band of merry morons are still running them (into the ground).
SOE wants my money, they can sell pre-CU server code as a new CD ... that I'd buy, and put in the hands of people competent to mod it. But my monthly fees paying Smed's salary? Can't see it. Fairly sure tens of thoussands of people feel the same way.
This article helps to show how retarded, stubborn and bull-headed $oE really is.
"But you know, part of my reason for presenting this and talking about it is I want to educate - I want people to learn what we've learned in that process". Yes.. tell us your ways oh wise one. Your a seasoned pro at pissing off your customers. By the way.. part of learning from your mistakes is not making the same mistake over and over, and going back and fixing the mistake...if it can be fixed.
"There was some really positive stuff, and the game now is as solid as it's ever been, our people have done a great job" What are you smoking? As solid as its ever been? Really positive stuff? Thats why you have less then half of your former subscribers since the NGE came out?
"we got the bug count down to about half of what it's been in the past six months." This is something to brag about? What decent mmorpg doesnt have half its bug count down after being on the market for over 3 years? Now how about giving crafters and entertainers a friggin purpose. Or maybe giving me back my teras kasi abilty or creature handeling abilty... you ass.
Fiala said there was "perceived to be a timing opportunity" related to "product placement and product marketing" of Star Wars Galaxies, and reiterated the importance of listening to "the market you have" when making decisions about a game already in production. Again... learning from a mistake... means fixing it. $oE has showed that they havent learned a damn thing. SoE... fix it! Get rid of this stupid NGE! Or give access to a pre-cu server. You could at least double your subscribers.
I feel a little bit better now.
double how abou triple its subscribers
Does it matter? We all knew the truth to begin with. And they tried so hard to fool us all and hide the truth that they cannot possible ever ever EVER deserve any credits for "admiting" their mistakes.
The only reason they ever would admit was if they truly were cornered or if they HAD to do it by any economical means.
$OE lies list
http://www.rlmmo.com/viewtopic.php?t=424&start=0
"
And I don't want to hear anything about "I don't believe in vampires" because *I* don't believe in vampires, but I believe in my own two eyes, and what *I* saw is ******* vampires! "
I have to disagree... they repeatedly talk about "the audience you have" & "not making major changes after it's live"... that clearly says the NGE itself was a mistake...
I agree, they'll keep it, but I think you're dead on about Classic Servers... that's about 150 mil annually sitting out there... and they are WAY too greedy to not go after it someway...
That's incredibly optimistic on how many people would come back for Classic Servers. I, for one, wouldn't ... not if Smedley's band of merry morons are still running them (into the ground).
SOE wants my money, they can sell pre-CU server code as a new CD ... that I'd buy, and put in the hands of people competent to mod it. But my monthly fees paying Smed's salary? Can't see it. Fairly sure tens of thoussands of people feel the same way.
Agreed. I'm not going to touch a SoE game again. It's too late, my friends have moved on (and so have I) and even if they hadn't I'd have serious problems going back to a SoE game because I don't believe that they mean what they say about staying with the community they have. If they see another imagined chance to double their possible playerbase by selling out their current one they'll take it in a heart beat. They'd jsut try to 'spin' it better a second time around.
There was some really positive stuff, and the game now is as solid as it's ever been, our people have done a great job – we got the bug count down to about half of what it's been in the past six months."
Oh YIII I feel for doing some math! SOE style!
SWG pre-NGE statistics:
- Game content: 100%
- Number of bugs: 50
- Bug frequency: 50%
SWG post-NGE statistics:
- Game content: 50%
- Number of bugs 25
- Bug frequency: 50%
--------------------------------
Oh yes, it's gotten MUCH better now! By cutting off half of all the content you gotta remove the bugs aswell right? Indeed a smart move.
$OE lies list
http://www.rlmmo.com/viewtopic.php?t=424&start=0
"
And I don't want to hear anything about "I don't believe in vampires" because *I* don't believe in vampires, but I believe in my own two eyes, and what *I* saw is ******* vampires! "
"But you know, part of my reason for presenting this and talking about it is I want to educate - I want people to learn what we've learned in that process. We took a big risk, and we learned. There was some really positive stuff, and the game now is as solid as it's ever been, our people have done a great job – we got the bug count down to about half of what it's been in the past six months. But what I would have done differently was be more sensitive to the target audience. The audience you launch with is the one you've got."
Translation
"We didn't make any money, in fact we lost customers. The angry customers haven't shut up and gone away and our poor number of current customers confirms this. So since we're going to be selling SWG: Complete soon we need to do some PR stunts like this, it costs little and it increases forecasts for box sales. So we admit to being insensitive, that's why SWG subs have plummeted. However that'll be all changing come christmass!"
Not what I'd call honesty nor an admission of being crap (in my opinion).
Anything I've posted here is not fact and is just my opinion nor is it meant to flame/offend nor harrass anyone or any company. Actually this is just all fantasy made up in my head, forum mods please take note, thankyou.
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience"
CS Lewis
HINT of the day:
"Did you know?"
By removing the entire game, you can automaticly remove every single bug! It's fast, it's easy!
$OE lies list
http://www.rlmmo.com/viewtopic.php?t=424&start=0
"
And I don't want to hear anything about "I don't believe in vampires" because *I* don't believe in vampires, but I believe in my own two eyes, and what *I* saw is ******* vampires! "
Which FF Character Are You?
"But what I would have done differently was be more sensitive to the target audience. The audience you launch with is the one you've got."
OMG, 3 years and they finaly get it.
"you're making the game for your audience, not for yourself."
WTF 2 sentences that make some freaking sense from SOE. Again why did it take 3 years.
"Fiala said the team wasn't focused on their task list right away"
uhm....can I get a no shit here.
"Finally, when the product is on shelves, it's important to accurately solicit player feedback, and take it seriously."
wow he is on a roll, what caused this great epiphany.
"a big risk" that represented a push for a new market of customers, but that it "did not intersect fully with the market that we had."
I think losing half your player base and the very angy forums proved this already.
So He is saying, Meh we screwed over the people that were already playing in order to target a different group of players, and uh...hehe hehe hehe....uhhh..hehe hehe uhhh we messed up Bevis.
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