Is there looting for warring guilds

havocthefirs

I just want to know if you can loot defeated foes, if not time to move on.

Cowinspace

Why should there be looting?

What use would other races find in differing armour?

For the good guys:
Chaos armour/weapons would be tainted with the powers of the chaos gods
Orc stuff is ugly, crude and probably smells. Goblin stuff is way too small.
Dark elf stuff wouldn't be worn by high elves, wouldn't fit dwarves, and humans wouldn't want to be called emo...(ok its not much of a reason)

For the bad guys:
Dwarf stuff wouldn't fit anyone else.
High elf stuff wouldn't fit Orcs, would be too clean/bright for either dark elves or chaos
Human stuff wouldn't fit Orcs, isn't tainted by the powers of chaos and isn't as good as what the Dark elves can make.

As for weapons, maybe. As long as better weapons were not super rare.

Unlike what 'hardcore pvp' gamers would have you believe, full looting DISCOURAGES real pvp. It ENCOURAGES ganking, and only ganking. And if there is full loot no-one but the 24/7 no lifers will use super rare, or even rare items as its not worth the risk.

Shaman64

*nods* Full looting is absolutly horrible, I think being able to loot items from the players is a good idea, but other races wouldn't have the need for the other races armor, and melting down metal and reforming it is difficult itself and would be pricier than molding a set of armor.

PTED

Maybe if you just looted some of the materials it would be better than looting the whole armor or weapon, as has been discussed above.

Or possibly sell the armor to wandering caravans, so long as the caravans are actually wandering and not in the same place...

bloodseeker

omg...full looting would aboloutly suck hard...

Volkmar

you CAN loot the enemy.

You just do not get items from his inventory but (random?) generated loot like if you would have killed a mob of appropriate rank.

Having full looting of corpses just add a whole lot of problems, without adding that much to the game as a whole.

franksalbe

Full looting only works if armor and weapon smith are able to take said loot and modify them for new use. Otherwise all you are doing is collecting useless crap.

Distortion0

First off, guilds don't war, nations do. It's like USA versus germany(along with brittian and russia of course), but definitely not Tennisie vrs. Pensylvania.

And second, yes you get items from enemies even if they are other players. No, the items do not come from their inventory and you probably can't steal the enemies armor and wear it as your own because it wouldn't fit you.

Azure77

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Originally posted by havocthefirs
I just want to know if you can loot defeated foes, if not time to move on.

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   You imagine how kinky a High Elf would look in goblin armor .. its like when I was 14 and I got my girlfriend to put on her girl scount uniform , super tight and showing everything.. This doesnt sound like a bad idea!

    I know lets just turn into a M rated title , where you cross-dress for war .. Put flowers in the human males hair , and have them dance around a bonfire .. in kinky goblin underwear...

Suitepee

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Originally posted by Cowinspace
Unlike what 'hardcore pvp' gamers would have you believe, full looting DISCOURAGES real pvp. It ENCOURAGES ganking, and only ganking. And if there is full loot no-one but the 24/7 no lifers will use super rare, or even rare items as its not worth the risk.

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That's your opinion. (as dead wrong as I think you are)

Ganking doesn't need any 'full loot' encouragement necessarily. WOW encourages ganking and it has no penalties whatsoever for PvP death. So do many other games where PvP doesn't include full loot.

If anything,having a level/gear/numbers divide is THE encouragement for 'ganking'. They just want some kind of divide so they can own people easier,and they don't necessarily want to be greeted with an equal response (they'll fight said equal response of course). If you remove level & gear from that,you only have a 'number divide' and then it's easy to bring up your own numbers to counter ganking.

Full loot encourages real PvP as much as it does 'ganking'. It has positives too,you know. If you're carrying decent stuff around you'd be smart enough to be in a GROUP/hiding from main PK hotspots at the time. (yes people wouldn't carry their Sunday best all the time granted,unless it was IMPORTANT. But it wouldn't stop them for trying to obtain said good gear.)

It gives purpose to 'staying alive',and not just "oh FFS now I have to warp back to town,no penalty oh well wheeeee". (like use it to warp back to town quicker,even!) Granted,'ganking' will be more rewarded but so will the anti-ganker response,don't you think? (ah,lovely ganker loot to return to people.  I'm a hero!)

And guess what; there'll be ganking in WAR too. And it doesn't have full loot either.

Just my thoughts.

Azure77

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Originally posted by Suitepee

Originally posted by Cowinspace
Unlike what 'hardcore pvp' gamers would have you believe, full looting DISCOURAGES real pvp. It ENCOURAGES ganking, and only ganking. And if there is full loot no-one but the 24/7 no lifers will use super rare, or even rare items as its not worth the risk.

That's your opinion. (as dead wrong as I think you are)

Ganking doesn't need any 'full loot' encouragement necessarily. WOW encourages ganking and it has no penalties whatsoever for PvP death. So do many other games where PvP doesn't include full loot.

If anything,having a level/gear/numbers divide is THE encouragement for 'ganking'. They just want some kind of divide so they can own people easier,and they don't necessarily want to be greeted with an equal response (they'll fight said equal response of course). If you remove level & gear from that,you only have a 'number divide' and then it's easy to bring up your own numbers to counter ganking.

Full loot encourages real PvP as much as it does 'ganking'. It has positives too,you know. If you're carrying decent stuff around you'd be smart enough to be in a GROUP/hiding from main PK hotspots at the time. (yes people wouldn't carry their Sunday best all the time granted,unless it was IMPORTANT. But it wouldn't stop them for trying to obtain said good gear.)

It gives purpose to 'staying alive',and not just "oh FFS now I have to warp back to town,no penalty oh well wheeeee". (like use it to warp back to town quicker,even!) Granted,'ganking' will be more rewarded but so will the anti-ganker response,don't you think? (ah,lovely ganker loot to return to people.  I'm a hero!)

And guess what; there'll be ganking in WAR too. And it doesn't have full loot either.

Just my thoughts.

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    The problem is that games that rely on Full Loot drops from PVP , also have bland and unoriginal armor. They work on the premis that armor and weapons are very common and very easy to get to. This leads away from the developers and art department working on a nice armor pieces .. instead mass producing a single armor design with muplite textures. And making weapons common to all races and classes , reguardless of size or shape.

      Games such as Shadowbane who have mostly Full Loot and XP for killing a player , lead to things such as farming low lvls for xp and gear drops. Since as one Shadowbane guild put it , it was much easier to wipe out 10 lvl 20s , and get loot than kill mobs of the same lvl or higher than the player.

      Full Loot kills off the lower lvl players , because they are prey and drops now , making it so that the game is unplayable to even advance in.

    1999 to 2002 , was peak of this concept and it happily died as Shadowbane showed massive turn over and massive problems with being a niche market.

     EQ2 PVP allows some loot to drop , which works better than full loot , because you gain something for the kill. But the dead player loses not enough to disswaid him from continuing to pvp and lvling up.

Suitepee

Not that I mean to draw the topic away from WAR,but:

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Originally posted by Azure77

    The problem is that games that rely on Full Loot drops from PVP , also have bland and unoriginal armor. They work on the premis that armor and weapons are very common and very easy to get to. This leads away from the developers and art department working on a nice armor pieces .. instead mass producing a single armor design with muplite textures. And making weapons common to all races and classes , reguardless of size or shape.
Tis true,but many games suffer 'everyone looks the same' syndrome,PvP or not. I can't count how many times I would see people in the same epics in WOW,or the same armor in any other game. It's not necessarily a case that the art developers slack off in said games,its because the game leads you to Armor level 1-11 > then armor level 11-21 > then armor level 21-31 per class,and everyone will wear these armors; the only exceptions being the same armor with stat bonuses,and perhaps one or two 'rare' armors in-between that most likely are the same armor but in a different shade/colour. Granted,maybe near end-game you'll branch out towards more armor routes, but you'll still stuck following the same armor path for your class,without much diversity allowed. Mage epic armor 1 > mage epic armor 2 > mage epic armor 3. Weapons are sometimes the same as well.
      Games such as Shadowbane who have mostly Full Loot and XP for killing a player , lead to things such as farming low lvls for xp and gear drops. Since as one Shadowbane guild put it , it was much easier to wipe out 10 lvl 20s , and get loot than kill mobs of the same lvl or higher than the player.
 Full Loot kills off the lower lvl players , because they are prey and drops now , making it so that the game is unplayable to even advance in.
Thus explaining my point; the level/gear divide encourages 'ganking' when full PvP is allowed. How's a level 20 gonna defend from a level 75,fully-geared (gear played its part in Shadowbane too,but not as much)? However during my short time with SB (when it went f2p) I was a ranger,and I could track people,so on the few occasions I encountered high-level players I was prepared for them. Granted one time the two 7x's were toying with me,but I had the last laugh as I escaped to the safety border. Doesn't mean the low-levels cannot run away/prepare with a good track group or otherwise,but the level advantage is there,no matter how quickly levels can be gained in SB,and it will be used to 'gank' people. Although since everyone had Sprint,you had a chance of escaping the 'slower' classes. 
Besides,SB didn't drop on death equipped gear and smart players knew not to carry around much stuff on their outings. A bit of smarts can overcome 'gankers'. Wasn't quite 'full loot' as such therefore. But a lot of 'real PvP' sure occurred in the form of the guild wars that SB had,has and may continue to have (although it seems a fair few established SB guilds,and maybe otherwise have their eyes on Darkfall,and I could suggest that when Darkfall is released SB will have a hard time coping if all these guilds leave) for some time.
    1999 to 2002 , was peak of this concept and it happily died as Shadowbane showed massive turn over and massive problems with being a niche market.
Shadowbane had other problems too; many bugs, crashes, click to move wasn't good for all, class imbalance, dominating guilds on servers, etc. Ask some SB vets. It wasn't all boiled down to the full PvP,but granted that would have kept some people away,even though levels in SB were dead easy to get,providing you could get a group. Since the removal of global channel,getting groups I found was harder than ever before and this is probably what has lead me away from SB F2P; not the full PvP. What's point of playing if no-one is talking/grouping? But granted it had its moments between 1999-2002 I'd imagine.
     EQ2 PVP allows some loot to drop , which works better than full loot , because you gain something for the kill. But the dead player loses not enough to disswaid him from continuing to pvp and lvling up.
Cannot comment on EQ2 because I never played it. Maybe 'semi-loot' would appease some players,but I'd need to know what system they used; do they only allow SOME inventory items to drop,or does it stretch to EQUIPPED items? And if so,do the chances of items dropping vary,and if so can they be varied by the player with skills,etc? Can some items be 'soulbound' against theft?

    The problem is that games that rely on Full Loot drops from PVP , also have bland and unoriginal armor. They work on the premis that armor and weapons are very common and very easy to get to. This leads away from the developers and art department working on a nice armor pieces .. instead mass producing a single armor design with muplite textures. And making weapons common to all races and classes , reguardless of size or shape.

Tis true,but many games suffer 'everyone looks the same' syndrome,PvP or not. I can't count how many times I would see people in the same epics in WOW,or the same armor in any other game. It's not necessarily a case that the art developers slack off in said games,its because the game leads you to Armor level 1-11 > then armor level 11-21 > then armor level 21-31,and everyone will wear these armors; the only exceptions being the same armor with stat bonuses,and perhaps one or two 'rare' armors in-between that most likely are the same armor but in a different shade/colour. Granted,maybe near end-game you'll branch out towards more armor routes, but you'll still stuck following the same armor path for your class,without much diversity allowed. Mage armor 1 > mage armor 2 > mage armor 3. Weapons are sometimes the same as well.

      Games such as Shadowbane who have mostly Full Loot and XP for killing a player , lead to things such as farming low lvls for xp and gear drops. Since as one Shadowbane guild put it , it was much easier to wipe out 10 lvl 20s , and get loot than kill mobs of the same lvl or higher than the player.

 Full Loot kills off the lower lvl players , because they are prey and drops now , making it so that the game is unplayable to even advance in.

Thus explaining my point; the level/gear divide encourages 'ganking' when full PvP is allowed. How's a level 20 gonna defend from a level 75,fully-geared (gear played its part in Shadowbane too,but not as much) & (most likely) guilded level 75? However during my short time with SB (when it went f2p) I was a ranger,and I could track people,so on the few occasions I encountered high-level players I was prepared for them. Granted one time the two 7x's were toying with me,but I had the last laugh as I escaped to the safety border. Doesn't mean the low-levels cannot run away/prepare with a good track group or otherwise,but the level advantage is there,no matter how quickly levels can be gained in SB,and it will be used to 'gank' people. Although since everyone had Sprint,you had a chance of escaping the 'slower' classes. 

Besides,SB didn't drop on death equipped gear and smart players knew not to carry around much stuff on theuir outings. A bit of smarts can overcome 'gankers'. Wasn't quite 'full loot' as such therefore. But a lot of 'real PvP' sure occurred in the form of the guild wars that SB had,has and may continue to have (although it seems a fair few established SB guilds,and maybe otherwise have their eyes on Darkfall,and I could suggest that when Darkfall is released SB will have a hard time coping if all these guilds leave) for some time.

    1999 to 2002 , was peak of this concept and it happily died as Shadowbane showed massive turn over and massive problems with being a niche market.

Shadowbane had other problems too; many bugs, crashes, click to move wasn't good for all, class imbalance, dominating guilds on servers, etc. Ask some SB vets. It wasn't all boiled down to the full PvP,but granted that would have kept some people away,even though levels in SB were dead easy to get,providing you could get a group. Since the removal of global channel,getting groups I found was harder than ever before and this is probably what has lead me away from SB F2P; not the full PvP. What's point of playing if no-one is talking/grouping? But granted it had its moments between 1999-2002 I'd imagine.

     EQ2 PVP allows some loot to drop , which works better than full loot , because you gain something for the kill. But the dead player loses not enough to disswaid him from continuing to pvp and lvling up.

Cannot comment on EQ2 because I never played it. Maybe 'semi-loot' would appease some players,but I'd need to know what system they used; do they only allow SOME inventory items to drop,or does it stretch to EQUIPPED items? And if so,do the chances of items dropping vary,and if so can they be varied by the player with skills,etc? Can some items be 'soulbound' against theft?

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Have to mention something about WAR here. Erm...go WAR!

Azure77

  Let me put it to this way , I played and was temp banned from Eq PVP early on. You could empty all your money and carry a crafting item (like a root or a stone) then when you died you would drop the root or stone always.

    Now the people we killed (my brothers I got 3 of them and 1 roommate) would drop nice swords , and armor , dont know if it was from normal loot or was thier stuff. We were doing so much "quick strikes" within our lvl but in noobie zones (we would zone in and kill the guards then process to kill everyone in our range and anyone dumb enough to fight us.)

    Well someone complained we were camping the area (never a spawn point) , but for about 3 days on Euro pvp server we killed maybe 30 people , got 100x the coins (even if you had no coin you would still give coins on death.) They reset the NPCs so you couldnt go into newbie areas just towns , and I think finally sewers were offlimits too.

    Anyhow we didnt log in for a few days and poped in the middle of the newbie . instant ban for 3 days .. was the end of the month so we just retired and moved on.

Xanrn

and the point of that rambling rubbish story, was?

Pantastic

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Originally posted by Suitepee
Full loot encourages real PvP as much as it does 'ganking'.

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And an example game where this happens is? It certainly doesn't seem to work in UO or EVE.

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It has positives too,you know.

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For people who like to gank people and take their stuff, sure.

Pantastic

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Originally posted by Azure77
Let me put it to this way , I played and was temp banned from Eq PVP early on. You could empty all your money and carry a crafting item (like a root or a stone) then when you died you would drop the root or stone always.
Now the people we killed (my brothers I got 3 of them and 1 roommate) would drop nice swords , and armor , dont know if it was from normal loot or was thier stuff.

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This perfectly highlights what I mean; people who want full loot get their frun from taking other people's stuff. All of the blather about needing risk for PVP to be fun is just nonsense; they really just want the chance to ruin someone else's day by taking stuff. Maybe there are a few people who really enjoy the risk, but most of them are like this guy - if they can turn of the 'lose stuff' rule for themself, they'll do it in a heartbeat.

I wonder many of these 'ohh, the risk makes it more fun' types would be willing to put their money where their mouthis. Press for game to include a 'lose stuff' flag instead, where if you have it set then people can loot you. Would you walk around with the flag set so that you could enjoy the additional risk, or is all of that 'risk' talk just a cover for wanting to gank other people and take their stuff?

Cowinspace

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Originally posted by Azure77

  Let me put it to this way , I played and was temp banned from Eq PVP early on. You could empty all your money and carry a crafting item (like a root or a stone) then when you died you would drop the root or stone always.
    Now the people we killed (my brothers I got 3 of them and 1 roommate) would drop nice swords , and armor , dont know if it was from normal loot or was thier stuff. We were doing so much "quick strikes" within our lvl but in noobie zones (we would zone in and kill the guards then process to kill everyone in our range and anyone dumb enough to fight us.)
    Well someone complained we were camping the area (never a spawn point) , but for about 3 days on Euro pvp server we killed maybe 30 people , got 100x the coins (even if you had no coin you would still give coins on death.) They reset the NPCs so you couldnt go into newbie areas just towns , and I think finally sewers were offlimits too.
    Anyhow we didnt log in for a few days and poped in the middle of the newbie . instant ban for 3 days .. was the end of the month so we just retired and moved on.

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This is why full loot (or loot of anykind is bad for PvP) the griefers/gankers (sorry 'hardcore pvper') exploit the system so they lose nothing, whilst ganking others. These gimps NEVER take on a fair fight, EVER.

I like the previous posters idea, give a 'full loot' flag. Then watch as absolutly no-one turns it on. The gankers and griefers (sorry keep forgetting you call yourselves 'hardcore PvPer', which is pretty retarded anyway. What do you do? PvP butt naked?) anyway, they won't turn the flags on first. They would bitch and whine and moan about their precious risk/reward but they would NEVER lead the way because they don't want their own character to be lootable, just the other folks.