Questions about the stealth suit... and radar detection

DX_Intruder

Couple of times my friend and I tried the stealth suits, but some things confuse me.

1a.) First question... If a player is moving, and an aircraft flies over them, they are detected on the enemy radar right?

1b.) But if the player is standing still, they aren't detected at all?

2.) If true, is that principle the same for ground vehicles, where if you stand still you don't get detected?  Because sometimes I'll be wearing agile armor or rexo, hear a tank or ATV coming, and hide behind a tree and sit still, then the vehicle keeps driving along the road away from me, then it stops, turns around, and instantly aims at me and kills me.

3.) Can ground vehicles detect cloakers?  Another time I was a cloaker, hiding behind a rock by a tower.  I did not have the satellite dish 'detected' icon on me.  A tank drove across a bridge toward the tower, then drove off the road to the rock I was hiding behind and shot me as if he knew where I was the whole time. (I was only sitting there for about 20 seconds and hadn't shot at anyone yet or done anything yet)

4.) Another time me and a friend had an idea to take a base (a hackable linked base, but it was empty.. so, people weren't fighting over this base, there werent tons of vehicles around, etc).  I was a rexo with heavy assault and a REK, and my friend was a cloaker with adv medical.  We went in a base and stayed somewhat close but far away from each other to reduce the chance of them seeing my friend the cloaker.  So when I was leaving a room, he was just entering it for example.  A TR came out of nowhere in front of me (as if waiting for me) and mowed me down with the minigun, and my friend was far back behind me.  The TR did not turn on Darklight when he killed me and the few seconds after he killed me (I could still see his name in the dead camera view).  I was also talking to my friend on TS, and when the TR popped out I told him to stay far back and sit still so the TR would leave and he would revive me (that was the plan from the beginning).  My friend said the TR didn't turn on Darklight the whole time, and he didn't have the detected icon either (I never did either, there were no motion sensors or aircrafts flying over the empty base), but RIGHT after he killed me, the TR ran directly over to the wall where my friend was ducking still and killed him.  How is this possible?  How can you detect cloakers without Darklight, besides seeing them run or shoot? (because he was just sitting still the whole time)  We went back to the same base about 10 minutes later and the SAME THING happened.  Pops out of nowhere, kills me, runs across the room straight over to my friend whos sitting still invisible and kills him without Darklight.  Did this guy use wallhack and some graphical exploit that makes cloakers opaque or is there something I don't know?

Some clarifications would be great

Tinybina

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Originally posted by DX_Intruder

Couple of times my friend and I tried the stealth suits, but some things confuse me.
1a.) First question... If a player is moving, and an aircraft flies over them, they are detected on the enemy radar right?
Only skeeters and variations of skeeters (wasp) have radar (not sure about that flying BFR, never EVER got in one).   And if your moving yes they will detect you on their radar.. Used to be baack in the day they have to be moving at a certain speed.. But the devs changed that.. Blah...


1b.) But if the player is standing still, they aren't detected at all?Yes


2.) If true, is that principle the same for ground vehicles, where if you stand still you don't get detected?  Because sometimes I'll be wearing agile armor or rexo, hear a tank or ATV coming, and hide behind a tree and sit still, then the vehicle keeps driving along the road away from me, then it stops, turns around, and instantly aims at me and kills me.No ground vehicles have radar.  Either you were detected by some ememys radar (Motion sensor, Skeeter, SOI linked to a Radar Facility) and it lit you up to them, or someone either the driver or the shooter saw you while they were in 3rd person. Make sure you listen for the detected by radar sound (that annoying arse sound you know the one) and/or see if that detected by radar icon appears on our screen..But also remember alot of people use 3rd person view, and when in a vehicle it can be zoomed out to a farther distance then a normal soldier to see around trees and such... Soldiers used to be alble to zoom it out far but the devs nerfed that....



3.) Can ground vehicles detect cloakers?  Another time I was a cloaker, hiding behind a rock by a tower.  I did not have the satellite dish 'detected' icon on me.  A tank drove across a bridge toward the tower, then drove off the road to the rock I was hiding behind and shot me as if he knew where I was the whole time. (I was only sitting there for about 20 seconds and hadn't shot at anyone yet or done anything yet)
People can use Dark light(almost any implant) in vehicles without any penalty.. (something alot of players have tried to have changed since the game has been out).  Basicly alot of drivers and or Gunners have it on all the time, or flick it since it will never drain endurance. Basicly just remember that the people in tanks probably were/are cloakers too.. There going to think just like you would and look for Cloakers. Most likely they saw you moving around in 3rd person view and came looking for ya, or they flicked Darklight and saw ya.


4.) Another time me and a friend had an idea to take a base (a hackable linked base, but it was empty.. so, people weren't fighting over this base, there werent tons of vehicles around, etc).  I was a rexo with heavy assault and a REK, and my friend was a cloaker with adv medical.  We went in a base and stayed somewhat close but far away from each other to reduce the chance of them seeing my friend the cloaker.  So when I was leaving a room, he was just entering it for example.  A TR came out of nowhere in front of me (as if waiting for me) and mowed me down with the minigun, and my friend was far back behind me.  The TR did not turn on Darklight when he killed me and the few seconds after he killed me (I could still see his name in the dead camera view).  I was also talking to my friend on TS, and when the TR popped out I told him to stay far back and sit still so the TR would leave and he would revive me (that was the plan from the beginning).  My friend said the TR didn't turn on Darklight the whole time, and he didn't have the detected icon either (I never did either, there were no motion sensors or aircrafts flying over the empty base), but RIGHT after he killed me, the TR ran directly over to the wall where my friend was ducking still and killed him.  How is this possible?  How can you detect cloakers without Darklight, besides seeing them run or shoot? (because he was just sitting still the whole time)  We went back to the same base about 10 minutes later and the SAME THING happened.  Pops out of nowhere, kills me, runs across the room straight over to my friend whos sitting still invisible and kills him without Darklight.  Did this guy use wallhack and some graphical exploit that makes cloakers opaque or is there something I don't know?
Its possible, in the past people have used certain drivers because they make Cloaker's visible or easier to see.. Others have used hacks that ignore the cloaking ablity.. its a online game and people will always find ways around the system.

But I have never used hacks and I have been accused time and time agian of cheating many times on cases like this. More then likely is that this base was connected to a Radar facility (base) and he picked you and your friend up there.. Remember even if you stop moving people can sorta tell where you last were, expecially if they have played for a while.  Another thing that alot of people use when they play is 3rd person. Cloakers are alot easier to see in 3rd person, remember as a cloaker your not completely invisible your just cloaked. So he probably was hiding in a tube or behind a wall using 3rd person to see the room.. He took you out first because you pose the biggest threat (armor) and saw where your buddy went to stand still. And then took him out. 

Alot of times to piss people off I would leave the room and then come back (there still standing still) and I would walk right up to them and blow them away and watch the "you hack tellsl, Im reporting you come in" ROFL.
Or sometimes I would just walk over and start /emoting infront of the cloaker (playing with them) have my gun out and wait util they try to run or shoot and them blow them away.. Either way I was'nt hacking just watching my screen and paying close attention.

As you get better and better with expierence you will start to see what I mean. Alot of people think cloakers are invisible, there not. And when you know what your looking for there rather easy to detect without darklight or radar. Expecially if your run around in 3rd person view alot like most good players do.


If you and your friend like like to do BlackOps (attack Nme bases,tubes, gens) I would suggest you get atleast 2 implants first and have Audio amp(personal radar) and sensor shield(radar resistence).. That way you can see who is in the base within a certain distance and also avoid detection...

There are alot of extremly skilled players out there that have been playing for a long long time. Most with br25 characters.
 

Here are some tips to help you out though:

1. Remember though, choose your bases carefully the least resistence the better, expecially when your newer to the game and not as skilled (yet)

2. If you can, take out the Radar facility first (depending on pressense and the size of your infilltration squad)

3. go slow (someone is probably waiting for you) some of the time someone very very good. ***check for boomers at each door***

4. Quiet is key radar is not the only way to detect. If I(the defender) hear some mines blowing up, a spit going off, a explosion, chances are there is a NME near so it might wanna go look for him or wait for him to try to hit a key area.



Those are blackOps rules that I go by.   Also remember to try to think like your NME.
    

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DX_Intruder

Thanks a lot for the info and advice... Ton of helpful info...

Probably won't be cloaking anymore though.  The fact that players can use implants while in vehicles creates a big imbalance I think...

Couple more questions though, about ground vehicles.. are you 100% sure ground vehicles have no radar at all?  The time I was in agile armor/rexo (forget which), and the tank drove by me and then stopped.. and turned around and shot me.... There were noooo other enemy elements present, no aircrafts or motion sensors, and I never heard that annoying detected sound, or got the satellite dish detected icon...  So he had to have seen me in 3rd person zoomed out mode?  Ugh... I just find that weird... shouldn't he be watching the road for mines or enemies ahead of him?

Blah I'm just really not a fan of being able to go into 3rd person mode in an FPS game..... -especially- when you have the handicap of being in a tank....

Oh, and one more question, does the personal radar implant, also detect cloakers?  or just infantry?

Tinybina

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Originally posted by DX_Intruder

Thanks a lot for the info and advice... Ton of helpful info...
Probably won't be cloaking anymore though.  The fact that players can use implants while in vehicles creates a big imbalance I think...
Yeah I feel ya year.. add that with the fact that they can zoom way out in 3rd person view and it just sucks.. But I have arugued with the devs since 03 about that one.





Couple more questions though, about ground vehicles.. are you 100% sure ground vehicles have no radar at all?  The time I was in agile armor/rexo (forget which), and the tank drove by me and then stopped.. and turned around and shot me.... There were noooo other enemy elements present, no aircrafts or motion sensors, and I never heard that annoying detected sound, or got the satellite dish detected icon...  So he had to have seen me in 3rd person zoomed out mode?  Ugh... I just find that weird... shouldn't he be watching the road for mines or enemies ahead of him?
Yup im pretty sure he or his gunner saw you in 3rd person.. If it was a heavy tank perhaps his gunner said something (over TS) about seeing you and asked the driver to go back.. Dunno.. Not saying people cant/dont cheat in PS because when I played they sure as hell did (I posted here about it) but this PS team has taken steps agianst it, and only a few probably still do it.

Blah I'm just really not a fan of being able to go into 3rd person mode in an FPS game..... -especially- when you have the handicap of being in a tank....
Yup, thing I did some of the times (expecially in low lvl new toons I would make) was carry a jammer or 3 with me.. that way if they saw me they would have to exit the tank if they wanted to kill me (or try to run me over) hell atleast mowing (tank running you over) is not as bad as it used to be back in the day, cause it was 30 times as bad as it is now.

Oh, and one more question, does the personal radar implant, also detect cloakers?  or just infantry?
Yup, unless ofcourse if they have sensor shield.

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DX_Intruder

Thanks again man, have helped a lot

Tinybina

Np have fun

Mrbloodworth

using 3ed persion has nothing to do with it, if you are seen, you will blip for a time to all friendlies radars.

grinreaper

Dosent flipping on DL force you into 1st person now...I dont use it, but my roommate does, thought he mentioned somthing about it?

I used to farm noobs with an inf suit....but those days are gone. Even the fodder these days knows how to deal with Inf now...inf is now more a means to an end...either actually sneaking in somewhere, or useing it to drop CE somwhere unexpected.

404k

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Originally posted by DX_Intruder

Couple of times my friend and I tried the stealth suits, but some things confuse me.
1a.) First question... If a player is moving, and an aircraft flies over them, they are detected on the enemy radar right?Only if the aircraft is a Mosquito.  Wasps, Libs, Reavers, etc. have no radar.  This is assuming you're talking about someone in an Infiltration suit.  Any other armor type puts you on radar if the aircraft points in your direction.  Running while in an Infiltration suit while in the radar range of a Mosquito without sensor shield not only puts you on radar, it puts your name in red over your head, and if the Mosquito driver has Advanced Targetting, displays your health bar as well.

1b.) But if the player is standing still, they aren't detected at all?
If you are standing still you will only be detected if you are in an interlink facility's SOI (or the SOI of an enemy facility linked to an Interlink facility) and you are within the active range of a Spitfire turret (the spit will start firing at you).  Sensor shield would hide you from the spitfire.

2.) If true, is that principle the same for ground vehicles, where if you stand still you don't get detected?  Because sometimes I'll be wearing agile armor or rexo, hear a tank or ATV coming, and hide behind a tree and sit still, then the vehicle keeps driving along the road away from me, then it stops, turns around, and instantly aims at me and kills me.
Only infiltration suits remove you from radar (infil suits can be 'voided' under certain circumstances).  If a vehicle occupant looks in your general direction, you will appear on his radar screen regardless of your movement status in anything other than an Infiltration suit.

3.) Can ground vehicles detect cloakers?  Another time I was a cloaker, hiding behind a rock by a tower.  I did not have the satellite dish 'detected' icon on me.  A tank drove across a bridge toward the tower, then drove off the road to the rock I was hiding behind and shot me as if he knew where I was the whole time. (I was only sitting there for about 20 seconds and hadn't shot at anyone yet or done anything yet)
Occupants of ground vehicles can use darklight just like an infantry.  Sometimes the graphics engine glitches and renders cloakers as being 'decloaked' even though they had previously activated the suit.

4.) Another time me and a friend had an idea to take a base (a hackable linked base, but it was empty.. so, people weren't fighting over this base, there werent tons of vehicles around, etc).  I was a rexo with heavy assault and a REK, and my friend was a cloaker with adv medical.  We went in a base and stayed somewhat close but far away from each other to reduce the chance of them seeing my friend the cloaker.  So when I was leaving a room, he was just entering it for example.  A TR came out of nowhere in front of me (as if waiting for me) and mowed me down with the minigun, and my friend was far back behind me.  The TR did not turn on Darklight when he killed me and the few seconds after he killed me (I could still see his name in the dead camera view).  I was also talking to my friend on TS, and when the TR popped out I told him to stay far back and sit still so the TR would leave and he would revive me (that was the plan from the beginning).  My friend said the TR didn't turn on Darklight the whole time, and he didn't have the detected icon either (I never did either, there were no motion sensors or aircrafts flying over the empty base), but RIGHT after he killed me, the TR ran directly over to the wall where my friend was ducking still and killed him.  How is this possible?  How can you detect cloakers without Darklight, besides seeing them run or shoot? (because he was just sitting still the whole time)  We went back to the same base about 10 minutes later and the SAME THING happened.  Pops out of nowhere, kills me, runs across the room straight over to my friend whos sitting still invisible and kills him without Darklight.  Did this guy use wallhack and some graphical exploit that makes cloakers opaque or is there something I don't know?
Be careful in the SOI of facilities linked to Interlink facilities, as they put you on radar and don't display the little radar dish icon on your screen.  If you are moving, even crouch walking, he can see your blip on radar unless you are using the sensor shield implant.  He might have been using an audio amplifier implant which would have also put you and your friend on radar.  Again, an active sensor shield implant would have avoided this.

Some clarifications would be great

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EDIT: Activating darklight puts you into 1st person view mode.

jimmyman99

Good post.
I would only like to add that from my own experience, cloakers live a very short life... I found it very hard to sneak into the base. I actualy had more luck getting inside a base that is under heavy attack, that way enemy soldiers are distracted and often they are fresh from the spawn  unable to use dark light for a few minutes. I would just sprint by them (sensor shield is a must so i dont show up on the radar) and then try to hide somewhere. Often theyd chase me, but without DL it would be hard to find me cuddled behind a crate. Still, 80-90% of time i die. But when I do get through and blow the gen or better yet, place a router telepad in the gen room - boy am i happy with the result! Suddenly, the gen room is being filled with friendlies taking it down.
Sometimes, when the gen room is being guarded well, I would just rush into spawn room placing a boomer on the fly and blowing up terms and if lucky enough spawn tubes. Or just place a telepad in strategic places. Or hack equip term in spawn, pull AntiInfantry max and spread chaos through infantry soldiers.

In general, life of a cloaker pays off in strategy then tactics. U wont kill a lot but your actions may result in quick base capture that could of taken much longer to capture. And time is crucial in PS.