Checking for a Pulse

ainokeii

So, uh... not to seem too demanding or anything, but... I'm beginning to wonder if I ever read anything about a game called Hero's Journey.

Some GM maybe wanna give us a brief confirmation that you're all indeed still alive? Seems like not a week goes by that I don't get to read something about the Hero Engine, but the last real tidbit on the game itself was in July. July, guys!

I know you're busy and all, and I respect that. It's not that I have a problem with a lack of updates in and of itself. I'm following Warhammer and I can't remember the last time they released something that wasn't a sliver of teaser trailer. It's more the drastic change in the (wonderful) routine you had going. I miss all those Q&As, and that huge description of the Wyr system. That was great stuff. If you're not ready to pick that back up again, do any of you even have an estimate on when you will?

Techleo

   Its hard not to appear demanding. I mean on one hand your the customer and the producers have to please there potenial customers. On the other hand you cant be slavering fools. Well in anycase I would like to know if regualr information releases are due any time soon? Not that im not totaly busy on CoH.

HJ-DEZORIN

I'm not an onsite GM, but I am a GM.  I can assure you, everyone is alive and well.

I've been busier than I have been in the past, so that's got to count for something.  I'm not responsible for releasing information, only onsite dictates that, so I cannot say for sure when or if anything will go over concerning HJ in the near future.  I honestly don't have that information.

The focus this year has really been HeroEngine, there's no denying that.  And I don't need to go into detail why that's a good thing (HE improves, HJ improves as a result).  My GUESS is that as the year comes to a close you will begin to see more HJ related news.  Simu is not composed of a huge group of individuals, so they can only place their focus on so many things at once.

Amathe

Color me worried.

I have been a big fan of this game, and still have my fingers crossed. But I am getting the distinct feeling that Simu is no longer focused on their game and is merely using a partially developed game as a demo of its engine. We may never see this title release, which sucks.

Even if that isn't true, you can't just hand someone a box of software and say "enjoy." You have to support it. I suspect that the slow down of reported progress on this game is attributable to employees being used to support the new license or to help the purchaser tailor it to their specific needs. In any event, other than the occasional "we're really busy, honset" posts, this game has gone dark.

There were rumors that the beta would begin late this year. We are only a few months from there and you can hear the crickets chirping. If ever we do see this game - a fact of which I am no longer confident - I don't see it happening until mid to late 2008. Drat.

HJ-Illuminat

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Originally posted by Amathe

Color me worried.
I have been a big fan of this game, and still have my fingers crossed. But I am getting the distinct feeling that Simu is no longer focused on their game and is merely using a partially developed game as a demo of its engine. We may never see this title release, which sucks.
Even if that isn't true, you can't just hand someone a box of software and say "enjoy." You have to support it. I suspect that the slow down of reported progress on this game is attributable to employees being used to support the new license or to help the purchaser tailor it to their specific needs. In any event, other than the occasional "we're really busy, honset" posts, this game has gone dark.

---

That would be true in a normal small company. Remember a good portion of the content being made for the game is handled by those who are not onsite. The engine is being entirely done by staff onsite, and is a seperate team from HJ devs. Those people have never been involved in the HJ development except in providing new toys to work with.

The problem with the lack of info probably stems from the fact that the PR person is also the lead creativity developer. She's in a huge creativity crunch time and probably doesn't have much time for anything else. Maybe with the extra Engine revenue they'll be able to hire more onsite staff to take some of the load off of her? /shrug

GM Illuminatis
World Builder
Hero's Journey

EliasThorne

Lets hope so.. It's nice to know that it hasn't been put on the back burner while staff support the newly licensed engine, but the timing certainly is suspicious.

PS: Love the "chirping crickets" line

HJ-Razu

Have faith faithful future HJers.  I love aliteration.

The GMs, both onsite and offsite, have been busy the past few months.  The offsite GMs, such as myself and the other GMs posting here, have many duties.

Offsite GM Duties (not all apply to all GMs):
1. Design Areas, Quest areas
2. Write Quest Material
3. Design Wyr and history behind it
4. Script the various systems**
5. Train new offsite GMs
6. Manage their team of GMs
7. Attend meetings
8. Maintain real life jobs
9. College classes
10. Support families, if applicable
11. Do all this work for free

Onsite Staff duties:
1. Promote HJ and the HeroEngine at Tradeshows (ADC, E3, etc)
2. Script the various systems**
3. Hire new Offsite GMs from a list of applicants
4. Attend meetings
5. Promote HeroEngine to prospective licensees (different from Tradeshow display)
6. Initial designs for the various systems to be scripted for HJ.
7. Perfect HeroEngine (for both the benefit of HJ and licensees such as Bioware)
8. The same staff also maintains critical big fixes for the IFE games (GS4, DR, MO, CS, AoH)
9. Press releases to promote HJ and/or HeroEngine

**This is a multi-step process which can take a week or two before a GM even writes one line of code. It really is a long process. We don't get an assignment and start scripting it 5 minutes later.

Offsite HJ GMs currently are working for free. Our only benefit is free access to the IFE games (GS4, DR, MO, CS, AoH). Therefore most GMs have real life jobs in addition to any family responsibilities. We are only required to put in an average of 15 or so hours a week. I've been an HJ GM for a year as of the week of Halloween. I have spent the last 11 months scripting HJ systems in my free time. And I am still learning all the neat things the HJ scripting language can do. Its that versatile. Just to give you a perspective on how the aforementioned offsite GM list relates to me, I do numbers 4-11.

HJ is not on the back burner. It is very much alive. The reason you don't see alot of media information about HJ is the fact that, as GM Illuminatus said, the same person who writes all the press releases you see here on mmorpg.com also works on some of the history and world design aspects for HJ. Steph has alot on her plate in her position at Simutronics. As do we all. New information can only come from Onsite staff. Offsite GMs cannot, by signed contract, release any information not previously released nor approved by the Onsite staff of Simutronics.

We are not about "Finish the game and get it out to the public ASAP!!!!". We are about a finished product worthy of the term MMORPG and worthy of the attention of our current and future customer base. We will not release HJ into Beta until we are sure we have everything ready for widescale testing. We will not open HJ to the public until we are sure we've fixed every bug we can find, designed every system necessary, and perfected the Wyr and Combat systems to meet our expectations of balance, realism, system integrity (no bugs), and lack of player ability to circumvent our limitations (not possible to cheat it).

Rome wasn't built in a day, and neither will HJ. We are a small company with maybe a 1/10 of the resources of Blizzard and Sony Online Entertainment. We will release new information when we have it, and we will open Beta when the time is right. All we ask is time so we can make a game worthy of your attention and appreciation. We have a reputation in the online community, and we mean to surpass it with the release of Hero's Journey. For the GMs, its all about the customer's enjoyment. If we didn't enjoy working on this game, we certainly would not be doing it for free.

fansede

OMG the GMs are slaves!

Simultronics has sweat shops of GMs...

Just kiddin. Its simply amazing that there are such committed devs out there that will work on a game for free. Hopefully your passions will translate into a fantastic gaming experience.

Adreal

Simultronics has sweat shops of GMs...

the truth is out! devs strike - progress halted on HJ.  Melissa was really worked to death but now they're trying to cover it up in a conspiracy.

*threatens to spread mass propaganda until the hj flock is appeased with video releases of qwi stoneborn*

EliasThorne

...Rome wasn't built in a day... ...when the time is right...

---

By any chance have you been watching Yes Minister?

Amathe

---

Originally posted by HJ-Razu
Onsite Staff duties:

1. Promote HJ and the HeroEngine at Tradeshows (ADC, E3, etc)
2. Script the various systems**
3. Hire new Offsite GMs from a list of applicants
4. Attend meetings
5. Promote HeroEngine to prospective licensees (different from Tradeshow display)
6. Initial designs for the various systems to be scripted for HJ.
7. Perfect HeroEngine (for both the benefit of HJ and licensees such as Bioware)
8. The same staff also maintains critical big fixes for the IFE games (GS4, DR, MO, CS, AoH)
9. Press releases to promote HJ and/or HeroEngine

---

Look, I love this game. And I am accustomed to waiting long periods of time for a game to get released. But anyone looking at this title has to see that the main focus is now on selling and supporting HeroEngine. A lot of the responsibility for working on the actual game is getting pushed to free offsite workers.  This is not good! Not only does it raise quality issues, but there is a reason companies like SOE won't use unpaid player "guides" anymore. It's because they discovered there is no such thing as a free worker and eventually one or more of those "free" workers is going to file a lawsuit. That will be a mess.

I support the policy of "no wine before it's time". Nobody likes to see games released before they are ready, because 9 out of 10 times they fail if you do. Dark and Light, for example, take a bow.

But at the same time, these games have a shelf life. Graphics get dated. Other systems get dated. Competition increases. If you wait too long the market will pass you by.

Also, there is a TON of stuff that has to get done in the third or fourth quarter of a game's manufacture. If you're not on a timetable, sometimes games get crushed in that period. How many titles have we seen that got cancelled right as they were supposedly nearing beta? They just flat out underestimated the cost and time and ran out of gas after slowpoking for 4-5 years.

I honestly don't want to bash Simu because I think they are a great company that makes great games. But in my opinion there is some serious, and I mean SERIOUS, mismanagement of this title at the moment which is putting the game in jeapordy.

HJ-Razu

---

Originally posted by Amathe

Originally posted by HJ-Razu
Onsite Staff duties:

1. Promote HJ and the HeroEngine at Tradeshows (ADC, E3, etc)
2. Script the various systems**
3. Hire new Offsite GMs from a list of applicants
4. Attend meetings
5. Promote HeroEngine to prospective licensees (different from Tradeshow display)
6. Initial designs for the various systems to be scripted for HJ.
7. Perfect HeroEngine (for both the benefit of HJ and licensees such as Bioware)
8. The same staff also maintains critical big fixes for the IFE games (GS4, DR, MO, CS, AoH)
9. Press releases to promote HJ and/or HeroEngine

Look, I love this game. And I am accustomed to waiting long periods of time for a game to get released. But anyone looking at this title has to see that the main focus is now on selling and supporting HeroEngine. A lot of the responsibility for working on the actual game is getting pushed to free offsite workers.  This is not good! Not only does it raise quality issues, but there is a reason companies like SOE won't use unpaid player "guides" anymore. It's because they discovered there is no such thing as a free worker and eventually one or more of those "free" workers is going to file a lawsuit. That will be a mess.

I support the policy of "no wine before it's time". Nobody likes to see games released before they are ready, because 9 out of 10 times they fail if you do. Dark and Light, for example, take a bow.

But at the same time, these games have a shelf life. Graphics get dated. Other systems get dated. Competition increases. If you wait too long the market will pass you by.

Also, there is a TON of stuff that has to get done in the third or fourth quarter of a game's manufacture. If you're not on a timetable, sometimes games get crushed in that period. How many titles have we seen that got cancelled right as they were supposedly nearing beta? They just flat out underestimated the cost and time and ran out of gas after slowpoking for 4-5 years.

I honestly don't want to bash Simu because I think they are a great company that makes great games. But in my opinion there is some serious, and I mean SERIOUS, mismanagement of this title at the moment which is putting the game in jeapordy.

---

Simutronics pays its offisite contractors.  Its just the pay comes from the revenue generated by that game.  Since HJ is not making any revenue at this point, we aren't being paid.  Once it is making revenue we will be paid based on a payment schedule that is not public information.

Everyone who plays a Simutronics game knows that their offite GMs do not get paid much.  Said GMs also have to do their own taxes as none is taken out.  Simutronics, despite not paying  their GMs, is hiring people and training them and they are staying on to work.  Because we want to do this, not for the money, but for the people.  No one becomes a Simutronics GM for the money.  It doesn't pay that much.

Also, I never said all onsite staff was working on HeroEngine.  I said the list did not apply to all, only some of the list applied to any one staff member.

And improving HeroEngine directly improves and speeds up development time for Hero's Journey.

HJ-Navarre

Thanks to the Simu staff for responding. Even though we haven't had many official updates lately, it helps to see posts from GMs, even if it is only about their mundane daily RL routine. It reassures the community that all is going well and gives us all warm fuzzies.

Adela

You people better start paying more attention to your potential customers, regardless of waht you have going on right now and regardless of how may hats each of you wear.  If Steph doesn't ahve the time, she better find someone who does.

 

You guys are getting pretty close to restablishing yourselves as secretive and customer service challenged, much like the old days.  I'm looking forward to HJ, but I'm also looking forward to several other titiles.  I'm not going to remain interested in what appears to be a product in very early stage of production, with very little being released about it, except excuses why no one has any time or information.

Make the time.  I'm starting to think that there is no information to release, and that would mean that we are looking at a long time before the game goes gold.  If that's true, just tell us.  it would be better that way then to have us sit around and be frustrated by the lack of information.

_Shadowmage

Wow - you need to get a less stressful hobby than waiting for games to be released or information released.

There are plenty of games that dont release info at this stage of development. If they spent all their time releasing info, and doing demos for tradeshows then I would worry that no actual work on the game was happening.

Ryowulf

I would guess the game would go into closed beta around Jan and maybe
open beta in May-June to go told in like Aug-Nov. If they don't go into
closed beta by say March, I would assume a 2008 release.

Billius8

Huh?  I don't understand the point of any of these posts.

EliasThorne

An odd thing just happened over in the vanguard forum - a comment one of my topics came back with "But he posts and actually responds and discusses far more than any other dev" referring to Brad, I has about to respond with something along the lines of... HJ have great devs who always keep us posted... then realised I could no longer say that 

I'm sure that nothing has really changed, but at that moment I realised that one of the major draws for HJ was gone

Techleo

    First time Ive been back in 2 weeks, hello hello all! Hehe I see its still quite as a tomb in here. I suppose there really working there arses off with the game engine. Well in anycase I dont expect them to really show up much more until they have something substantial to report. Ill be back in a month or two. For now Im off to CoH. Cheers and hope I hear some more when Im back

HJ-Navarre

We still have quite an active HJ community forum at Hero's Hall, despite receiving little PR from Simutronics, and we even have a number of HJ Staff posting regularly. Unfortunately, though, most HJ topics have already been thoroughly discussed and discussed again. (see: Equine necro-flagellation)

Kane

Litte PR. Thats a nice way of saying they aren't telling is a damn thing. Since this thread was started, we STILL haven't had a good update.

Techleo

    I dont know if they really have a reason to post as much anymore. If the game is under development and they know it can sale once its in a testable stage they mite see it as unneeded to advertise more. Consider the fact there a established game company and they just sold a game engine. That fact alone seperates them from start up companies who have to release as soon as possible just to make a return.

Valendros

All I know is THEY'RE pissing of their gaming audience. It's not an issue of their silence. It's an issue of their consistantly horrible timetables. I've posted what I thought their timeframe was going to be a few times, and I'm sticking by it. Simu has proven time and time again that they know jack about providing logical and realiistic time estimates. They shouldn't say anything and just let the internet buzz about what they might be or might not be doing until they're 6 months from release (EG. in beta).

I would most certainly rather them take the time they need instead of rushing an unfinished product out the door because of their timetable. It's much better to have a 99% finished game put out than a 60% finished game put out with a 'promice' of future updates. But it's to the point where it's either tell us an unrealistically high time table then surprise us when it's done (See "the Scotty timetable"... and Cpt Kirk always called him a miricle worker), or don't tell us a damn thing until it's shipping.

EliasThorne

Well, I can't let it go a full week without a post here

Is anything going on out there, even Hero's Hall is quiet!

Kavaed

They website seems to be dead for me, i haven't been keeping up to date but i really hope nothings happened since im looking forward to it since i hear its going to reward roleplaying.

Fugnudz

Checking for a pulse...

"Nurse, get in here, we have a flatline.  Quick, hook up the anti-virus software and see if we can get any signs of life."

"Doctor-"

"It's okay, nurse, disconnect everything.  I'll make the phone call to the fanbase."