Howdy, Stranger!
It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!
Quick Links
UO vs EQ
Zindaihas
Member UncommonPosts: 3,662
Ok folks, I apologize if this issue has been debated before, but if it has, I missed it, so I thought I would raise it myself (and if it hasn't, let the debate begin). The reason I bring it up is because when someone starts a thread like, "What's your favorite MMO of all-time?", these two ground breaking games consistently appear more often than all the others (at least that's the way it seems to me). So, I'm curious to hear from gamers, particularly those who have played both. Which game is the better of the two? If you want to break it down into different categories (graphics, community, etc.) that's fine, but what I'm really wondering is, overall, which game was the more fun to play.
From my perspective, EQ was the first and still the best MMORPG I ever played. I never played UO, but I hear similiar sentiments from those who started with that game. So I'm wondering is it's because it's the first that makes it the best, or is it because the devs of those games had something that others don't. I'd appreciate if you would qualify your response instead of simply saying one was better than the other. And if you happen to think both games sucked and something else is way better than either, feel free to say so as well. Just make sure you back it up with an argument.
Comments
There is no best of the two. They are the roots of the opposite extremes of MMORPG's.
UO is for the people who can handle the mindless repetitiveness of PVP (Explosion, Energy Bolt. Explosion, Energy Bolt. Poison, Explosion, Energy Bolt, etc.). The players that prefer open-pvp and full looting.
EQ is for the people who can handle the mindless repetiveness of raiding. The players that either despise PVP or prefer it in moderation. These are generally the folks that don't want to lose their gear -- and with good reason. Being force to raid for hours to get an item and then lose it in a 10 second gank is not fun.
The other KEY difference is skill-based characters (UO) and level-based characters (EQ).
PVP is much more balanced in the skill-based system, but this is at the cost of MUCH balancing. A relatively new character can stand up against a veteran. The issue here is that the hybrid/tank mage tends to be the ultimate PVPer.
In EQ, PVP is dependent on level and gear. A new player wouldn't stand a chance against a veteran. The level difference results in the inability to even hit the higher player in most cases. The power of your gear also influences PVP, which leads back to the need to raid for hours on end.
I am of course referring to old school UO -- pre-Trammel.
Today, those who argue for graphical quality over all (or almost all) would more than likely say EQ is the better MMORPG. EQ has aged much better than UO, with substantial graphic upgrades.
Also, EQ tends to be favored by the RPers, as look and character customization is a big issue with your average RPer.
I'm speaking from personal experience here. I've went through my times as a powergaming PK as well as my times as a Powergaming RPer (despised by those unwilling to look past powergaming). I don't claim anything I've said to be the opinion of the majority, simply my opinion.
The modern MMORPG is simply not worthy, of the acronym RPG. The straight grind and lack of atmosphere leave me with no choice. From this day forth, World of Warcraft, Everquest 2, and all the games like them shall be referred to as PIGCRAP. People In Guilds Constantly Raiding And Power-leveling
I agree eq was the best mmorpg that I ever played as well, as far as mindless raiding goes it isnt like your describing it in eq, it was alot of fun. Although I do not play any games with raiding anymore its a waste of my life unless its casual raiding, besides I dont care for gear atm im playing coh/cov to fix those things. But the game grew enormously and had alot to offer it was one game I never grew bored of.
The 1st gen MMO = UO
The 2nd gen MMO = WoW (used to be EQ)
The 3rd gen MMO = Not release yet, and I don't see it coming soon...I wish I will be surprised.
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
Came across this post from 2006 and thought I'd revive it.
Considering it's been 14 years since predicting this; what are your thoughts now?
What would we consider the 3rd gen and the 4th, 5th?
Total time played: 9125 Days, 21 Hours, 29 Minutes, 27 Seconds
Time played this level: 39 Days, 1 Hour, 24 Minutes, 5 Seconds
Back in 2001 when I got into EQ, I did look into UO and basically the isometric graphics were not my cup of tea. I had played too many single player games with the same (or similar) graphics and found I was often "blinded" by obstacles like walls. UO also had PvP which was something I avoid. I'm not putting my gameplay in the hands of strangers and hope for the best
What intrigued me about UO was the skill system: You use it, it improves. EQ's level up system was strange, at times. You still had to use the skills to level them up, but according to class specific guidelines, all skills in that class had a cap that improved with each level, whether you used them (or it) or not.
As I said, I can't compare.
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.- FARGIN_WAR
Keep in mind that it's been a long time since I played it at all. So I may get some things a little wrong.
+++++++++
Skill system.
You could use any skill at any time.
When you did successfully, it went up a little.
You started at 15 in all skills (meaning a 15% chance to be successful using it) I think it was.
UO was very fast paced, so misses weren't aggravating, generally speaking.
Use it once, successfully, and it went up to 15.1. And so on, to a max of 100.
Skills went up faster early, slower as you got up in the skill. It didn't take long to get to 30 skill. Maybe a couple hours if you were playing intensely. I don't know for sure, most of us "just played" and time went by fast.
Max in a skill was 100 points.
You had a max total of all skill points combined. I think it was 500 points.
So you had to choose which ones to use.
You could build your character with 5 skills at 100, or 3 at 100 and the other 200 points divided between 3 or 4 skills, or however you wanted it.
That became a problem as players ended up with unwanted points in skills, so they added a system where you could mark each skill to go up, down, or lock it.
If you wanted to drop one skill for another, you changed their settings how you wanted it.
As you skilled up in the desired skills, and if you were at the Max of 700 total, it robbed points from skills set to go down.
So if you were dropping a skill, you still had it, it just went down as the other skills went up.
+++++++++++++++
Stats.
There were only 3. Strength, Constitution, and Intelligence.
Strength added to physical damage.
Constitution was HPs
Intelligence was you Mana Pool for magic casting.
You started at 15 points in each.
Each stat went up as you used a skill that corresponded to it. But much slower than Skills went up.
So your damage, HPs, and Mana Pool went up as you used skills associated with them.
They each had a max of 100 too.
I don't think there was a total max, as 300 served that well.
++++++++++++++
I'll continue in the next post....
Once upon a time....
Interesting point. Meridian actually had me so grabbed that I almost didn't try anything after that either
Wa min God! Se æx on min heafod is!
Gear and wearables.
Slots
You had slots for:
- Head (helmet, hats, bandana, a variety of non armor headwear for Mages or those who wanted the look.
- Neck, (gorget armor or necklaces). (I think earrings fit here too. I remember you had to replace an armor piece to wear magical earrings)
- Torso #1 (shirt)
- Torso #2 (worn over #1) (Armor)
- Torso #3 (over the others) (tunic, surcoat, or robe)
- Torso #4 (Sash over top of all)
- Arms (fit under Torsos #3 and 4 like the chest armor, but showed with a surcoat since they don't cover the arms) (Armor, shirt sleeves or bare arms showed if not covered)
- Hands (Armor or rings, not both)
- Waste (a kilt)
- Legs #1 (Pants, long or those medieval type that ended below the knee)
- Legs #2 (over top of #1) (armor)
Since you could dye clothing items a wide range of colors, and with the choices above, players could have Guild Uniforms, or set a "look" for themselves.
Armor and Weapons
There were no levels with huge Power Gaps, so there wasn't sets of gear designed for level groupings.
However, there was a range of improvements based on the Blacksmith's Skill.
AND there were 3 ways an item could improve.
Damage or armor, durability (items wore out, but could be repaired), and accuracy(/evasion?).
Basically, it was the basic item stats, plus 4 ranges of improvements.
Basic, +1 (damage or armor rating), +2, +3, and +4.
Although those numbers seem small, you could really feel the difference.
The top end weapons were call "Vanquishing", and they lived up to their name.
When a Blacksmith made an item, if I recall, there were chances that it could go up in any of those 3 ways, up to his Skill's ability.
So if his skill allows him to make a +4 item, it might turn out to be +3 instead.
So a sword made by a Grand Master Blacksmith (100 skill) might be +4 in each of the 3 ways of improvements, or +4, +3, and +1 in any combination. There was a randomness that was more likely to hit the high marks with higher skill.
Continued.....
Once upon a time....
Very open to players.
That didn't mean that some places were too dangerous for lower skilled characters.
Dungeons were more dangerous the deeper you went into them.
Some open sky areas were very dangerous.
I think this is like EQ. But there was a huge difference in the Power gaps.
With the above, players weren't separated by levels like modern games.
Guilds often had a wide range of members with various total skill point advancement.
You single clicked something, anything, to "look" at it.
A description popped up in text.
You double clicked an item to "use" it.
If it was out of range (basically hitting the ground), you got a text message saying "you are out of range". Or you might hit something else.
You double clicked a tool to use it.
Blacksmith hammers, sewing kits, etc.
This included things like doors or chests.
UO had interesting things in the world, I think EQ like from what I've read.
Players would click or double click on items to see if there was anything unusual about them. They often were obviously different, sometime they "just looked a little different."
The end? lol There's so much about the worldly aspects that I'm leaving out.
Writing books in-game, as an example. Chess boards, as another.
Pouring wine from a bottle into a glass, drinking it, and doing that 5 times before the bottle was empty, as another example.
Building furniture and placing it in the world, as another.
I think that'll do for now.
Once upon a time....
For me, I had a background on online games from deep discussions with my D&D friends, years before computer gaming was feasible. I mean Pong era.
We loved D&D, but realized that that system wouldn't work for a whole world full of players. Too much division of ability in levels.
UO was exactly the way we envisioned an online, massively populated world would have to be.
But of course others didn't see it that way and producers built D&D into their games.
Once upon a time....
Strategies.
UO didn't have special attacks like modern games.
It was very fast combat action, so strategies were important. Timing was everything, sometimes.
Potions. Heals, Cures (had to cure poisons before you could heal), Invisibility, were used a lot.
There were potions that boosted your Stats, and the associated points (HP.s Damage, Mana).
There were rings, necklaces, and earrings that boosted you stats too. They had charges that wore off as you wore them, 1 point per second. So you didn't want to wear them longer than needed.
When in trouble, and trying to run vs. a spell casting MOB, sometimes a player would use teleport to "jump" away, then hit "Hide". If done right, you'd be hidden. If not, you might take a dirt nap.
Teleporting to ledges was an easy way to avoid physical attacks.
The typical tag teaming, training, etc.
There wasn't near as many options like modern games. But the fast pace meant you had to really stay on your toes. It was, perhaps, more exciting because of that.
Also, in UO, there was Blocking. You didn't want to get surrounded and outclassed by MOBs. This wasn't a real problem as most MOBs were slow. But still, don't sleep at the wheel.
Once upon a time....
EQ was a 3rd person view, fully 3D world, that was primary a hack/slash PvE MMO, that paved the way for a future of 3D world MMO's, and is noted for spawning the Juggernaut WoW.
As for better, while that will always be a matter of personal taste, I would say as far as influence goes, given that almost all modern MMO's feel more akin to EQ then UO, that should give us an answer to that question.
Proud MMORPG.com member since March 2004! Make PvE GREAT Again!
Wa min God! Se æx on min heafod is!
UO was my first, and it was amazing not just because of that. The first time you set out into the woods to hunt and chop wood or whatever the tension was unforgiving, as a red name, who is such for murdering too many innocents, could pop out at any moment to kill you and take all your stuff. It happened to me a few times lol.
So I joined an RP guild called Defenders of Justice (DOJ), it was RP and an anti-pk guild which meant we hunted down red names. Not only that, but there were Orc guilds who wore all orc armor and orc masks and roleplayed orcs, we were at war with them and would have really cool fights. They would strictly wear only orc armor, which wasn't that good, just to stay in character. They even hung out in the orc areas in game. The whole thing was just an amazing experience. I have memories from EQ, but nothing like that.
Once upon a time....
Yub (yes in Orc), they even had their own language. Fun group. They extended onto my shard after they got established.
I joined a RP guild that was anti-PK too. We defended Rat Valley (later Orc Valley) and the spawn there against PKers and looters.
Once upon a time....
But do you remember the Blade and Barbasol events?
Blade was your typical boasting "going to kill you all" type. Barbasol was an extreme RPer who just wanted to visit all the Shrines, a true monk type character.
And after a fairly long while, it was discovered they were the same poster when he slipped up and posted under the wrong name. (possibly intentionally, as a stunt, just for fun)
"Barbasol" is a shaving cream, to go along with "Blade."
Fun stuff, even before the game released.
Once upon a time....
We used to dress in peasant (nub) clothes with deadly poisoned katanas and walk along the road outside the starter area to bait pk'ers, when chunks of their health would start to go bye bye they would freak out and hurry and portal out before they died, if they were lucky lol. Good times.
Ultima Online definitely was a complete virtual world. What I mean by that is that there was no order or guide telling you what you had to do or when to do it. You simply logged on and started doing whatever interest you the most. This is a game, unlike what newer "MMORPG"'s claim to have, where the world was a truly living place. Most games these days are just well designed games that you log in and do some tasks and come back tomorrow to do the same thing.
Everquest has so much charm too. I recently just started playing Project 1999 just because I never got the chance to play EQ back in the day. I was so consumed by UO and WoW that I didn't really look back. Going into EQ now though, I can feel the nostalgia for the old genre wash through me. It makes me want so badly the way MMORPG's used to be.
The reason why I 'resurrected' this thread, though, was because it has been 14 years since the last person posted on what the 3rd generation of MMORPG's would look like and I was curious what it ended up being as well as other games that pushed the genre forward.
The 1st Gen I would give it to both Ultima Online and to Everquest just because they were both extremely successful games that gave fuel to the new genre of MMORPG.
The 2nd Gen. Could be World of Warcraft on it's own just because after that, every game tried so hard to follow suit, but could never capture the charm and magic that Blizzard had in it's MMORPG.
So that leads us to the 3rd Gen. It would have to be the next game that help push the genre forward. To me, that game could possibly be Age of Conan. Even though it didn't really boom like WoW. To me it was the first massive MMORPG that took the combat a step forward and lead the way to 'Action Combat' that seems to be popular today. Plus the starting area's story was very well crafted, Tortage.
Then there's the 4th Gen. What was the next game that push the industry forward even further? I feel like at this point it would have to be a title that push F2P, or B2P like GW2 or BDO. What about Elder Scrolls for bringing the game onto all consoles?
Here's the list so far. Let me know what you think or if you'd change something:
1st Generation MMORPG = UO & EQ
2nd Generation MMORPG = World of Warcraft
3rd Generation MMORPG = Age of Conan
4th Generation MMORPG = Guild Wars 2? Black Desert Online? Elder Scrolls Online?
5th Generation MMORPG = Probably Camelot Unchained, Crowfall, New World?
Total time played: 9125 Days, 21 Hours, 29 Minutes, 27 Seconds
Time played this level: 39 Days, 1 Hour, 24 Minutes, 5 Seconds
1st Gen: UO - Really the only MMORPG (2D) of it's time and was earth shattering for those who played MUDs before.
2nd Gen: EQ, DAOC - This is where we saw 3D introduced to MMORPGs. EQ was obviously first and the most popular, DAOC came out afterwards as an answer to those who hated aspects of EQ. Both of these games were brutal to the players though from a death perspective/grind etc.
3rd Gen: EQ2, WoW, Eve Online - Both EQ2 and WoW were released the same month and they changed MMORPGs forever. They were basically the answer to all the pain that players went through with Gen 2 games. No more harsh death penalties, no more brutal grind etc. Actually EQ2 brought some of the old EQ1 crap into it which is partly why WoW destroyed it. WoW would continue to dominate for a long time.
4th Gen: Here is where innovation starts to die, we see many WoW clones and companies stop exploring new ways to play a MMORPG. Let's call it the crap generation filled with many crap MMORPGs that were focused more on getting your money than building a fun game. This is where all the F2P, P2W scams etc come in.
5th Gen: I believe this Gen will represent the next scam in MMORPGs, and that's the Go Fund Me games.. Star Citizen, Camelot Unchained. Basically here is where we see huge wastes of money as we find out what happens when there isn't a publisher to pressure the game devs to get the game out. Star Citizen was the poster child of this, but recent announcements by Camelot Unchained make it the bigger crook.
UO was the pinnacle of first gen, as many were around before UO.
EQ and others brought 3D into the genre.
Wow & EQ 2 made quests number one.
Action combat comes next, but I'm not sure who to blame award for that.
I haven't seen any "genre defining" features since then, unless one counts monetization schemes.
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.- FARGIN_WAR
Also the OP has been gone since January of 2019 he may never get to read this.
I met a guy from Catskills once who told me that used archers. Naked archers. They offered nothing for reward if killed and looted.
They'd hide around the crossroads where PKers went, and all of a sudden a whole bunch of arrows would bring down some and send the rest fleeing back to momma. lol
Once upon a time....