I'm not sure on that Vanguards pre-relase boards aren't worse than others. I was in CoH beta (that was mentioned). My gaming days started pencil & dice with Chainmail (pre-D&D), so usually the pencil & dice old farts crowd makes me smile. I *like* EVE. I played Eq1, and I liked its early days. I was a long time MUD player, back to the text pre-UO/EQ days. I should be a Vanboi?
Sad part is ... its the Vanguard pre-release community and the open and public responses from Vanguard staff to them (going all the way up to the top) that to me, is the largest incentive NOT to play the game. Indeed, my last post on the Vanguard (official) forums was to annouce I was no longer following the game after one of Brad's flame war defences of Vanguard on FoH's forums. I think "uber-guild flamewar must be taken seriously" perfectly sets the tone for the current community. And, its being set, by example, from the top. If thats the community, I want no part of it, even if I might have enjoyed some game features. I don't play MMOs for a couple of game features, I play them for the community. Silly of me I know. As an ex-MUD old fart, the rise of raiding and uber guilds is to me, a new and really odd thing. I tried it, and want no part of it. I want old style comraderie and character building, with roleplay and geeky numbers to watch. I don't see Vanguard as offering me anything atm.
I generally like CoX's community, and EVE's. Vanguard's community turns me off. Bigtime. So does Brad's way of advertising his game. FWIW. Its his game. Its the "uberguild flamewars are serious!" player's game. Its not my game, and if I try it ... the people for whom the game was made made it very clear that I am not welcome there. Not even a little bit. Sad, I really wanted to like it too.
Considering the state of the vanguard official forums, i dont have high hopes for a decent community from that game..in fact i think the vanguard community might just oust wow for the worst ever community in a game award..its definately heading the right way for that award...plus looking at the recent videos the game looks awful and very very brown...people have been saying that vanguard will require high spec computers to run it..for what,the graphics look terrible.
Originally posted by vesavius Warning, essentially this post is close to trolling. I say close, because, unlike a real troll, I dont say this because I desire anger, but on the contrary to vent off MY anger. I have really little will to go into detail, but I HAVE to say this, this one time. Then I will not say it again. I am neither a hateboi or a fanboi of any game - its only games and hobby and spare time fun. But I have never, ever seen such a dam hive of mmo-bigots and game-zealots than in the Vanguard forum (not here, the official one). Really. I don't know if there is a record to break for the most hardcorish player or what, or if Vanguard is a part of Mr Bush's War of Terror or what the <explicative>, that every <explicative> feature to make a game more accessible, like journal, like map, like any other <explicative> game standart for 10+ year is supposed to be turned back to computer stone age! Dammit, I played games when we had DOS, 640kb to juggle and 500 boot disks, when I wrote 50 handdrawn maps on chequered paper per game and wrote down any friggin comment, quest and hint down on pager! I was there! It were good that days but I dont want the heck to turn the wheel back until we go to 1980 text adventures, because they were the <explicative> most hardcore! I am just sick of 15 yo male teenage boasting, if you need to proof ya so hard go the heck to a fight club and dont bother us who want to make a fun and enjoying game. Thanks for your cooperation.
PS: Sorry, naturally YOU werent meant.
Of course you are a 'real troll'... Don't be absurd. There are other games that will offer you the game experience you are chasing (easy, spoon fed, casual etc), so what other reason have you to be posting like this about a game that obviously has a different philosophy? What have you to gain here except to troll? A rose by any other name..? Of course you are a 'real troll'... Don't be absurd. There are other games that will offer you the game experience you are chasing (easy, spoon fed, casual etc), so what other reason have you to be posting like this about a game that obviously has a different philosophy? What have you to gain here except to troll? A rose by any other name..? This is a win/ win situation for you eh? To make a stupid sweeping statement like 'everyone is a fan zealot' or whatever... If we defend ourselves, then we are 'fan zealots' right? and if we don't, you have free run of the boards to spew your hateboi (and yes, this is what your are, no matter what you claim) nonsense. Calm responses that make valid logical and emotional points to the hateboi are ignored because they don't fit in with your perspective, while the more extreme ones are offered up as representitive of the entire community... It's so tragic that people want to destroy a game this badly that hasnt even been released yet... Some people out there must really be scared eh? The VG fan has nowhere to go against this kind of popaganda. What company was it you worked for again? Honestly? This post is to vent your anger? Why are you so angry anyhow? What does it really matter? It sounds like you have the issue to me... Projection? Not everyone at the official boards are 'perfect' by a long shot, but If people sometimes react with passion then thats just because they actually care. Remember that feeling? To actually care about a game, rather then existing to destroy a game (directly or indirectly by slandering the vast majority of it's followers) you will probably never play? It's easy to attack people that care about something, because you know you will always get a reaction. Compared to other games communities, VG's is really ok. Anyone can go there themselves and see. Sure, you can pick out a few selected posts to prove your 'point' of the community being horrible I guess, and I would expect nothing else from the hateboi, but the people who want to play will still play, and those that don't still won't. The only time anything really kicks off is when generic_flamer_1846443 goes there to start a fight. Like you have done here. Who was the problem again? In your opinion?
Your exactly the type of person on the offical vanguard forums that turn many people away from this game..and its you who is sounding angry in your post and not the OP.
Originally posted by Roin I mean nothing personal against AnarchyArt, but have you read some of his post? He talks about Vanguard like it's the 2nd coming of Jesus, or a cure for Cancer.
It's one thing to like and enjoy a game, but when you treat it like a religion almost. There is a serious problem.
Show me one post where I talk about Vanguard in this way. I have had two immediate family members die of cancer and I assure you I take this subject seriously. I think what you meant to say is that YOU treat trolling like it's a religion and I won't just shut up and not call you out for what you are. Sorry for continuously spoiling your fun.
To the O.P., never has a game besides SWG had such a following of detractors and trolls, you being one of them. First you refuse to play this game because of corpse runs, then you say you will refuse to play it unless there is a free trial. Vanguard is going to have corpse runs and there won't be a free trial for the first year or so.
I apologize that the game isn't being made to your specific specifications but I hope you will try it anyway.I think you'll find that the added challenge adds a level of immersiveness and enjoyment.
Originally posted by Hechicera I'm not sure on that Vanguards pre-relase boards aren't worse than others. I was in CoH beta (that was mentioned). My gaming days started pencil & dice with Chainmail (pre-D&D), so usually the pencil & dice old farts crowd makes me smile. I *like* EVE. I played Eq1, and I liked its early days. I was a long time MUD player, back to the text pre-UO/EQ days. I should be a Vanboi?
Sad part is ... its the Vanguard pre-release community and the open and public responses from Vanguard staff to them (going all the way up to the top) that to me, is the largest incentive NOT to play the game. Indeed, my last post on the Vanguard (official) forums was to annouce I was no longer following the game after one of Brad's flame war defences of Vanguard on FoH's forums. I think "uber-guild flamewar must be taken seriously" perfectly sets the tone for the current community. And, its being set, by example, from the top. If thats the community, I want no part of it, even if I might have enjoyed some game features. I don't play MMOs for a couple of game features, I play them for the community. Silly of me I know. As an ex-MUD old fart, the rise of raiding and uber guilds is to me, a new and really odd thing. I tried it, and want no part of it. I want old style comraderie and character building, with roleplay and geeky numbers to watch. I don't see Vanguard as offering me anything atm.
I generally like CoX's community, and EVE's. Vanguard's community turns me off. Bigtime. So does Brad's way of advertising his game. FWIW. Its his game. Its the "uberguild flamewars are serious!" player's game. Its not my game, and if I try it ... the people for whom the game was made made it very clear that I am not welcome there. Not even a little bit. Sad, I really wanted to like it too.
Why is it that people automatically associate the uber guild community with the gameplay style of Vanguard?
Vanguard is thought to be a hardcore game, yes. It is hardcore in its general gameplay rather than its association towards raid end game play. WoW is very much pro-raid, do you call WoW a hardcore game in the same respect as Vanguard? No you don't. Vanguard is hardcore because it offers players a challenge rather than the humdrum existence of modern MMOs that are all about fast levelling, getting away with death and getting everything when you want it.
People confuse the two common forms of the word hardcore. Hardcore gaming, at one end, is a form of gameplay that promotes heavy playtimes and getting to the top and staying at the top. It associates it with the raid audience and members of the uberguilds. Vanguard has never been a raid game; Brad has actually stated that Vanguard will appeal to players that play for a few hours every weekday and as much as they can at weekends...a casual audience.
Hardcore gaming, at the other end, can mean that the game is promoted as being challenging, as I have said. Don't confuse tehse two as the same thing. Of course if people had read and understood the game then they wouldn't have this confused.
**And please note that however I have used the term hardcore in previous posts that the gameplay is what I refer too. Don't go saying I want raid play because I certainly don't.**
I am about as far away from a raider as you can get; I am a roleplayer. I detest raiding. I have little time for the likes of FoH that run through game content as if it were a race. And I refer to another member saying that Brad was just trying to please FoH. He's not, but he does realise that a lot of people go to FoH's forums and that there are a lot of members there that are exactly the same as many here; they constantly voice their opiunions that Vanguard is going to be a poor game, and they will do whatever it takes to convince people, falsely if need be. I see a lot of that here.
That is why Brad came here. He wants to provide the truth about Vanguard...not the hatebois warped view.
But I am digressing. Please don't compare Vanguard with a game that is all done for the uber guilds.
Vanguard will feature travel sinks as opposed to insta travel. If you liked EQ1's early days then I can't see why you would be against that. This is not a pro-uber guild thing either. The rise of the uber guild, in EQ, was much more prevalent after PoP and serious insta travel.
Vanguard will feature 3 different spheres that will work together. The majority of encounters will require that parts of each sphere are used to accomplish the task. How is that favouring the uber guilds?
Vanguard's high end items will not only be gained from raiding but from crafting and diplomacy too. Many high end raided items will need to be augmented by crafters.
I believe Brad McQuaid is focused on providing quality content for roleplayers because of comments he has made in the past and his last focus at EQ being the conception and implementation of Firiona Vie server. Overall, it has been said time and again that the team want a wealth of alternate servers. (EDITED: didn't realise my previous comments would get so jumped upon so I changed them)
Vanguard is labeled as a group-centric and item-centrric game. Not a raid-centric game for the uber guilds. Read the FAQ. It will be challenging but it will favour the casual player rather than the raider. You can have both challenging and casual without making the game primarily end-game.
Personally I think you need to first understand the true make up of Vanguard before you make assumptions on its content. If you like early EQ, MUDS and pen and paper then you will like the style of Vanguard...it is most similar to early EQ.
Brad is more a roleplayer than a raider. I am sure he likes raiding but his last action on EQ was to implement Firiona Vie server - a roleplay environment. He left SOE when the focus became more on emphasis to the high end game than to the casual style. He has said before that his highest EQ character was a 47 ranger levelled on FV server (Thats from memory so forgive me if it's wrong...close enough I think though).
Okay, let's suppose you are right. Let's suppose uber raiders are the Inquisition in Vanguard...then will the Pope(Brad) hear the call for a Non-raiding server so we can free the holy ground of non-raiding and get the casuals a LOT happier?
Gimme my crusade...err non-raiding server!
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
This is the same Brad that refuses to even have a designated roleplaying server in Vanguard, despite their popularity in other games?
This is the same Brad who likes to tell people he is an honorary member of Fires of Heaven? What roleplaying guild does he tell people he belonged to?
This is the same Brad who has hired a significant number of Fires of Heaven members as Sigil employees? What members of roleplaying guilds has he hired? If he has he has never seen fit to share that.
Give me a break. There may have been a time - long, long, ago - where this was a fair characterization, but it is long since passed.
EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests
Originally posted by Amathe This is the same Brad that refuses to even have a designated roleplaying server in Vanguard, despite their popularity in other games?
Please link the article or interview where Bradley refused to have an RP server. Would be very interested to see this.
Originally posted by holifeet Why is it that people automatically associate the uber guild community with the gameplay style of Vanguard?
I didn't. I associate the uber guild community with the Vanguard community. It was agressively recruited by Brad. I base this opinion on his own posts and statements in them to that community. I feel fairly confident he was indeed recruiting them, and, moreover, it would appear he suceeded.
<snip a long discussion on your definition of "hardcore">
I'm sorry, I wasn't sure how that part applied to me or my post. I followed Vanguard quite a while. My impressions on its gameplay are based first on information I read directly from Vanguard staff on Vanguards official site, including but not limited to the FAQ. Secondly, its based on informal, private feedback from friends in beta. None of them are any of the public NDA breakers. And frankly, what I think of the non-raiding gameplay is moot. As I said, I don't play MMOs for this or that game feature. The community I associate with Vanguard, not its presumed gameplay features is what is making me very leery of purchase. <snip more about what the poster assumes Bard wants and his postings on FoH's boards>
But I am digressing. Please don't compare Vanguard with a game that is all done for the uber guilds.
Ahh, here you are correct and relevant to my post. Yes, I am saying that is the consumer that Vanguard was originally designed for. Yes, and they hard "hardcore". And I have no problem with them finally having a game designed for them. I do have a problem with thier agressively turning on other members of the Vanguard community who are percieved as less "hardcore" anytime any fan or tester asked if any game element could be made less tedious. Not all uberguilders live in a basement and play 24x7. Many are gainfully employed adults. I see the part-time during the week play and all weekend player as "core gamer", yet offering a game that will crush the balls of mere mortals as quite nicely fitting thier desires. Vanguard will feature travel sinks as opposed to insta travel. If you liked EQ1's early days then I can't see why you would be against that. This is not a pro-uber guild thing either. The rise of the uber guild, in EQ, was much more prevalent after PoP and serious insta travel.
Horrid concept. Back in '81 or '82 I could roll the dice to see if anything "interesting" happened on the long arduous journey to the new adventuring area. If it was boring, I certainly didn't make my D&D group come back the next five sessions while I described to them in excruciating detail the scenery they were passing to give them a sense of "vastness". Nope, roll the dice, 10 seconds, and a spiel on how long and vast the journey was and we were done. I trusted my fellow gamers to have thier imaginations fill that in. Not only does Vanguard not trust me to imagine, it wants to make durn sure I worked hard for thier imaginaition too!
And I put the initial rise of the uberguild with Hate & Fear. I was there. Heh, I got off that bus in Kunark though. <snip more descriptions of Vanguards presumed gameplay and Brad's presumed gameplay habits> relevance? Vanguard is labeled as a group-centric and item-centrric game. Not a raid-centric game for the uber guilds. Read the FAQ. It will be challenging but it will favour the casual player rather than the raider. You can have both challenging and casual without making the game primarily end-game.
Personally I think you need to first understand the true make up of Vanguard before you make assumptions on its content. If you like early EQ, MUDS and pen and paper then you will like the style of Vanguard...it is most similar to early EQ.
I think I am adequately informed, and I've said that I have read the FAQ, on more than one occasion even, thank you though. Some design decisions make me cringe (one described above) others *do* sound interesting. But, I will leave you with this thought:
In an MMO, a large part of the "content" in the community. Vanguard is in no way like EQ early days in this respect. Since that is my primary purchase motivator, speaking only for myself, it alone is enough to make me concerned about my personal satisfaction potential with a purchase of Vanguard.
Or put it this way, a pub can serve the best beer in the world, but if its filled with wankers that hate you and want to beat you up since they heard you drank lite beer one day ... you might not want to go in there eh? Even if the bar owner comes out at the last moment and says they do stock a full range of beers ... its not going to be pretty if you go in there now is it?
Tell me you are joking? This is the same Brad that refuses to even have a designated roleplaying server in Vanguard, despite their popularity in other games?
who said there isn't going to be a designated roleplaying server in vanguard? i think that you were misinformed about that and i also know that brad was one of if not the first mmo developer to implement a roleplaying server in a mmorpg, Firiona Vie ring a bell?
There will definitely be PvE servers with alternate rule sets, although at launch the only alternate ruleset server will be our PvP server. Some future sets might be perceived as more 'RP' than others, but because people have different definitions of what 'RP' means, we will likely label these server types with more specific names. Again, at this point, we are only comitting to one alternate rule set server at launch, and it will be a PvP server -- RP servers and other types of alternate rule-set servers will come after the game is launched.
I see your post, but it's in Brad speak. He doesn't say there will be a roleplay server. He says there will be "alternative ruleset servers." That's not the same thing. He says some will be more "roleplay friendly" than others. That's not the same thing.
You show me where he has ever said there will be a designated roleplay server.
EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests
Originally posted by Amathe I see your post, but it's in Brad speak. He doesn't say there will be a roleplay server. He says there will be "alternative ruleset servers." That's not the same thing. He says some will be more "roleplay friendly" than others. That's not the same thing. You show me where he has ever said there will be a designated roleplay server.
lol dude, i just did. "RP servers and other types of alternate rule-set servers will come after the game is launched."
what exactly is it that you want him to say? I'm sorry but this comes off as nothing but nitpicking. there will be roleplaying servers that are dedicated to roleplayers at some point, what more do you want?
you want details right? well so do i...i want details about the pvp servers as well but apparently they haven't released any information about them yet.
so should i assume since they haven't released information that it will not exist? how about you show me where he has ever said there will not be a designated roleplay server?
Originally posted by baphamet what exactly is it that you want him to say? I'm sorry but this comes off as nothing but nitpicking. there will be roleplaying servers that are dedicated to roleplayers at some point, what more do you want?
My point is simply this (and I don't think it is all that important a point, yay or nay, in the overall scheme of things). The claim was made that Brad is primarily a roleplayer. I dispute that. But if you believe that is true, why no RP servers at launch? As to what will come later, I suspect you and I may have different levels of confidence in what will come later. We can agree to disagree on that?
EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests
My point is simply this (and I don't think it is all that important a point, yay or nay, in the overall scheme of things). The claim was made that Brad is primarily a roleplayer. I dispute that. But if you believe that is true, why no RP servers at launch? As to what will come later, I suspect you and I may have different levels of confidence in what will come later. We can agree to disagree on that?
well I'm not really agreeing or disagreeing on what to expect will happen, I'm just going by what he said...if you don't have confidence in it and think he wont come through with a RP server i have no beef with that.
i also am not going to comment on if brad is primarily a rp'er or a raider, i don't know the guy personally and i think he or someone that knows him could only answer that.
but again i have read multiple posts where brad explains that the last thing he ever did when he was with soe was implement the FV roleplaying server in eq1 back in the day.
and to my knowledge it is one of if not the first RP server ever implemented in a mmorpg, so going off that information that tells me he is interested in the idea.
and to answer your question as to why no RP server at launch....im not sure that it is totally ruled out but i do know that brad does not want to commit to any alternate ruleset servers at launch except at least one pvp server.
his reasoning is that they have no clue how many people will actually be playing the game at launch at this point so he cant commit to anything but the one pvp server.
again just going by what i read not what i believe to be true or what will happen, and if you need links i can try to dig them up for you just let me know.
Originally posted by Elikal Warning, essentially this post is close to trolling. I say close, because, unlike a real troll, I dont say this because I desire anger, but on the contrary to vent off MY anger. I have really little will to go into detail, but I HAVE to say this, this one time. Then I will not say it again. I am neither a hateboi or a fanboi of any game - its only games and hobby and spare time fun. But I have never, ever seen such a dam hive of mmo-bigots and game-zealots than in the Vanguard forum (not here, the official one). Really. I don't know if there is a record to break for the most hardcorish player or what, or if Vanguard is a part of Mr Bush's War of Terror or what the <explicative>, that every <explicative> feature to make a game more accessible, like journal, like map, like any other <explicative> game standart for 10+ year is supposed to be turned back to computer stone age!
In my opinion this game seems to have some very vocal extremists on both sides of the fence to my experience however out of the 100k + people the extremists both for and against Vanguard are the minority
I think the notoriety of the devs and co-publishers of this game have alot to do with why there are so many extremists in comparison to other games there are many more people who have very strong opinions about both the Dev teem and the co-publisher of this game.
so while a good many extremists for old school/ hard core/ core / whatever other extreme you can think of and can possibly be percieved in the FAQ's ten to congregate and post often on the official forums
there tends to be an equal number of extremists on the opposite side congregating on this and other un-affiliated sites.
this is not in my opinion representative of a the entirety of any of the communities involved just the very vocal extremists which are in fact the minority.
I think it is a matter of what background someone comes from, that influences his/her expectations. Well, like some others, I too come from a D&D pen and paper era. I played those pen and paper games for many years and they belong to my best memories. What made those days great were three things.
1. First and foremost, the community, you played with your friends, usually the same SMALL group of close friends. I like to have a small circle, with whom I do all my (and their) adventures. Thats why I dont like a game concept that demands to be part in a bige uber guild to get anything done. It just does not support my desire to play with that small but close circle of friends. I dont want to be an anonymous part of a guild army.
2. I was involved in a story, thats was role playing is about for me, I play a role and a part of a story. Like a theatre drama, the story unfolds and my friends and me are part of it. Everything else is arbitrary.
3. I love the adventure, the fighting, the solving of quests and we all come out as the heroes of the day. I dont need overly long travels merely to be forced to see their great world again and again. It may be cool at first, but I assure you it will loose the thrill if you walk 1 hour++ through the same steppes again and again because there is no teleport and no map.
Simply said: I want the game focus on the fun, and I want my time to be spent with fun not with too much tiresome, boring things.
I really have no hate towards either Vanguard devs nor Vanguards fans. Those zealous fan... they are like children, who do not know whats good and sophisiticated. You go to McDonalds because you never have eaten a good menu. Really, if you had experienced good olde pen and paper days, good stories and good, small companies, you would not value hollow things like uber guilds and power gaming so much. You really should try to grow up to a more sophisiticated way to enjoy yourself with others than UBER gaming.
===================== Note to the MMORPG staff: I really dont want to drag this most honorable and good site down. Naturally my explicative words were all quotes. *wink* But I didnt know the word "explicative" yet, so thanks I learned something. I try to behave. Its difficult sometimes, and I think some learn only if they get a verbal tackle. We all grow by combat, tho.
People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert
Originally posted by Recidivist Gee, I like the community of mmo-bigots and game-zealots on the official vanguard forum.That probably says something profound about me, but I cannot figure out what it is.
you want to talk about mmo-bigots? look no further than all the people generalizing vanguard players because of a few trolls on a forum with over 100k registered users.
since there is a vocal minority of trolls over on the OVF surly that must mean the entire community is like that *rolls eyes*
Deleted because I am starting to feel myself becoming far too argumentative and confrontational that I'll stall my place in this discussion and turn to just answering questions from newcomers to the game.
Originally posted by holifeet Brad is more a roleplayer than a raider.
Tell me you are joking? This is the same Brad that refuses to even have a designated roleplaying server in Vanguard, despite their popularity in other games? This is the same Brad who likes to tell people he is an honorary member of Fires of Heaven? What roleplaying guild does he tell people he belonged to? This is the same Brad who has hired a significant number of Fires of Heaven members as Sigil employees? What members of roleplaying guilds has he hired? If he has he has never seen fit to share that. Give me a break. There may have been a time - long, long, ago - where this was a fair characterization, but it is long since passed.
Yes, I wish I hadn't said that. I knew, afterward, that I was wrong to make a generalisation about Brad like that. He has made comments on his love of roleplay servers in the past, at the OVF, and it is just my belief that he is a roleplay fan.
It is just fitting that the Vanguard haters will pounce on one line of text to make a major point though. Brad McQuaid is an honourary member of Fires of Heaven but I don't think he is the only dev to be so. It is not necessarily so that he follows every single one of their principles, he may just feel proud that they chose to honour him in such a way.
The fact that Sigil hire Fires of Heaven members does not suggest anything other than the fact that they are suited for the job they are undertaking. I mean do you think he hired them as a thanks? He has put together the team he thinks can make the best MMO, if they are the best then good for him.
Just forget I said that. And I apologise to Brad, should he read this, for assuming his gameplay preferences.
Comments
I'm not sure on that Vanguards pre-relase boards aren't worse than others. I was in CoH beta (that was mentioned). My gaming days started pencil & dice with Chainmail (pre-D&D), so usually the pencil & dice old farts crowd makes me smile. I *like* EVE. I played Eq1, and I liked its early days. I was a long time MUD player, back to the text pre-UO/EQ days. I should be a Vanboi?
Sad part is ... its the Vanguard pre-release community and the open and public responses from Vanguard staff to them (going all the way up to the top) that to me, is the largest incentive NOT to play the game. Indeed, my last post on the Vanguard (official) forums was to annouce I was no longer following the game after one of Brad's flame war defences of Vanguard on FoH's forums. I think "uber-guild flamewar must be taken seriously" perfectly sets the tone for the current community. And, its being set, by example, from the top. If thats the community, I want no part of it, even if I might have enjoyed some game features. I don't play MMOs for a couple of game features, I play them for the community. Silly of me I know.
I generally like CoX's community, and EVE's. Vanguard's community turns me off. Bigtime. So does Brad's way of advertising his game. FWIW. Its his game. Its the "uberguild flamewars are serious!" player's game. Its not my game, and if I try it ... the people for whom the game was made made it very clear that I am not welcome there. Not even a little bit. Sad, I really wanted to like it too.
All i have to say.
eqnext.wikia.com
Show me one post where I talk about Vanguard in this way. I have had two immediate family members die of cancer and I assure you I take this subject seriously. I think what you meant to say is that YOU treat trolling like it's a religion and I won't just shut up and not call you out for what you are. Sorry for continuously spoiling your fun.
To the O.P., never has a game besides SWG had such a following of detractors and trolls, you being one of them. First you refuse to play this game because of corpse runs, then you say you will refuse to play it unless there is a free trial. Vanguard is going to have corpse runs and there won't be a free trial for the first year or so.
I apologize that the game isn't being made to your specific specifications but I hope you will try it anyway.I think you'll find that the added challenge adds a level of immersiveness and enjoyment.
Vanguard is thought to be a hardcore game, yes. It is hardcore in its general gameplay rather than its association towards raid end game play. WoW is very much pro-raid, do you call WoW a hardcore game in the same respect as Vanguard? No you don't. Vanguard is hardcore because it offers players a challenge rather than the humdrum existence of modern MMOs that are all about fast levelling, getting away with death and getting everything when you want it.
People confuse the two common forms of the word hardcore. Hardcore gaming, at one end, is a form of gameplay that promotes heavy playtimes and getting to the top and staying at the top. It associates it with the raid audience and members of the uberguilds. Vanguard has never been a raid game; Brad has actually stated that Vanguard will appeal to players that play for a few hours every weekday and as much as they can at weekends...a casual audience.
Hardcore gaming, at the other end, can mean that the game is promoted as being challenging, as I have said. Don't confuse tehse two as the same thing. Of course if people had read and understood the game then they wouldn't have this confused.
**And please note that however I have used the term hardcore in previous posts that the gameplay is what I refer too. Don't go saying I want raid play because I certainly don't.**
I am about as far away from a raider as you can get; I am a roleplayer. I detest raiding. I have little time for the likes of FoH that run through game content as if it were a race. And I refer to another member saying that Brad was just trying to please FoH. He's not, but he does realise that a lot of people go to FoH's forums and that there are a lot of members there that are exactly the same as many here; they constantly voice their opiunions that Vanguard is going to be a poor game, and they will do whatever it takes to convince people, falsely if need be. I see a lot of that here.
That is why Brad came here. He wants to provide the truth about Vanguard...not the hatebois warped view.
But I am digressing. Please don't compare Vanguard with a game that is all done for the uber guilds.
Vanguard will feature travel sinks as opposed to insta travel. If you liked EQ1's early days then I can't see why you would be against that. This is not a pro-uber guild thing either. The rise of the uber guild, in EQ, was much more prevalent after PoP and serious insta travel.
Vanguard will feature 3 different spheres that will work together. The majority of encounters will require that parts of each sphere are used to accomplish the task. How is that favouring the uber guilds?
Vanguard's high end items will not only be gained from raiding but from crafting and diplomacy too. Many high end raided items will need to be augmented by crafters.
I believe Brad McQuaid is focused on providing quality content for roleplayers because of comments he has made in the past and his last focus at EQ being the conception and implementation of Firiona Vie server. Overall, it has been said time and again that the team want a wealth of alternate servers. (EDITED: didn't realise my previous comments would get so jumped upon so I changed them)
Vanguard is labeled as a group-centric and item-centrric game. Not a raid-centric game for the uber guilds. Read the FAQ. It will be challenging but it will favour the casual player rather than the raider. You can have both challenging and casual without making the game primarily end-game.
Personally I think you need to first understand the true make up of Vanguard before you make assumptions on its content. If you like early EQ, MUDS and pen and paper then you will like the style of Vanguard...it is most similar to early EQ.
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Okay, let's suppose you are right. Let's suppose uber raiders are the Inquisition in Vanguard...then will the Pope(Brad) hear the call for a Non-raiding server so we can free the holy ground of non-raiding and get the casuals a LOT happier?
Gimme my crusade...err non-raiding server!
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests
Please link the article or interview where Bradley refused to have an RP server. Would be very interested to see this.
who said there isn't going to be a designated roleplaying server in vanguard? i think that you were misinformed about that and i also know that brad was one of if not the first mmo developer to implement a roleplaying server in a mmorpg, Firiona Vie ring a bell?
http://vanguardsoh.com/faq.php?eid=15&faqid=15&ptext=Alternate+Rule+set+Servers
I see your post, but it's in Brad speak. He doesn't say there will be a roleplay server. He says there will be "alternative ruleset servers." That's not the same thing. He says some will be more "roleplay friendly" than others. That's not the same thing.
You show me where he has ever said there will be a designated roleplay server.
EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests
"RP servers and other types of alternate rule-set servers will come after the game is launched. "
i think RP=role playing, not standing up for this game i think it looks horrible, but he DID say there would be a RP server
lol dude, i just did. "RP servers and other types of alternate rule-set servers will come after the game is launched."
what exactly is it that you want him to say? I'm sorry but this comes off as nothing but nitpicking. there will be roleplaying servers that are dedicated to roleplayers at some point, what more do you want?
you want details right? well so do i...i want details about the pvp servers as well but apparently they haven't released any information about them yet.
so should i assume since they haven't released information that it will not exist? how about you show me where he has ever said there will not be a designated roleplay server?
To the OP:
Please keep the language to a minimum. Your post was edited in order to prevent oyur account from receiving a warning.
And to everyone, as said before, please remain on topic.
EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests
well I'm not really agreeing or disagreeing on what to expect will happen, I'm just going by what he said...if you don't have confidence in it and think he wont come through with a RP server i have no beef with that.
i also am not going to comment on if brad is primarily a rp'er or a raider, i don't know the guy personally and i think he or someone that knows him could only answer that.
but again i have read multiple posts where brad explains that the last thing he ever did when he was with soe was implement the FV roleplaying server in eq1 back in the day.
and to my knowledge it is one of if not the first RP server ever implemented in a mmorpg, so going off that information that tells me he is interested in the idea.
and to answer your question as to why no RP server at launch....im not sure that it is totally ruled out but i do know that brad does not want to commit to any alternate ruleset servers at launch except at least one pvp server.
his reasoning is that they have no clue how many people will actually be playing the game at launch at this point so he cant commit to anything but the one pvp server.
again just going by what i read not what i believe to be true or what will happen, and if you need links i can try to dig them up for you just let me know.
In my opinion this game seems to have some very vocal extremists on both sides of the fence to my experience however out of the 100k + people the extremists both for and against Vanguard are the minority
I think the notoriety of the devs and co-publishers of this game have alot to do with why there are so many extremists in comparison to other games there are many more people who have very strong opinions about both the Dev teem and the co-publisher of this game.
so while a good many extremists for old school/ hard core/ core / whatever other extreme you can think of and can possibly be percieved in the FAQ's ten to congregate and post often on the official forums
there tends to be an equal number of extremists on the opposite side congregating on this and other un-affiliated sites.
this is not in my opinion representative of a the entirety of any of the communities involved just the very vocal extremists which are in fact the minority.
thats my opinion anyway.
~Aruvia~
That probably says something profound about me, but I cannot figure out what it is.
*waves at Hechicera*
I think it is a matter of what background someone comes from, that influences his/her expectations. Well, like some others, I too come from a D&D pen and paper era. I played those pen and paper games for many years and they belong to my best memories. What made those days great were three things.
1. First and foremost, the community, you played with your friends, usually the same SMALL group of close friends. I like to have a small circle, with whom I do all my (and their) adventures. Thats why I dont like a game concept that demands to be part in a bige uber guild to get anything done. It just does not support my desire to play with that small but close circle of friends. I dont want to be an anonymous part of a guild army.
2. I was involved in a story, thats was role playing is about for me, I play a role and a part of a story. Like a theatre drama, the story unfolds and my friends and me are part of it. Everything else is arbitrary.
3. I love the adventure, the fighting, the solving of quests and we all come out as the heroes of the day. I dont need overly long travels merely to be forced to see their great world again and again. It may be cool at first, but I assure you it will loose the thrill if you walk 1 hour++ through the same steppes again and again because there is no teleport and no map.
Simply said: I want the game focus on the fun, and I want my time to be spent with fun not with too much tiresome, boring things.
I really have no hate towards either Vanguard devs nor Vanguards fans. Those zealous fan... they are like children, who do not know whats good and sophisiticated. You go to McDonalds because you never have eaten a good menu. Really, if you had experienced good olde pen and paper days, good stories and good, small companies, you would not value hollow things like uber guilds and power gaming so much. You really should try to grow up to a more sophisiticated way to enjoy yourself with others than UBER gaming.
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Note to the MMORPG staff: I really dont want to drag this most honorable and good site down. Naturally my explicative words were all quotes. *wink* But I didnt know the word "explicative" yet, so thanks I learned something. I try to behave. Its difficult sometimes, and I think some learn only if they get a verbal tackle. We all grow by combat, tho.
People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert
you want to talk about mmo-bigots? look no further than all the people generalizing vanguard players because of a few trolls on a forum with over 100k registered users.
since there is a vocal minority of trolls over on the OVF surly that must mean the entire community is like that *rolls eyes*
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Yes, I wish I hadn't said that. I knew, afterward, that I was wrong to make a generalisation about Brad like that. He has made comments on his love of roleplay servers in the past, at the OVF, and it is just my belief that he is a roleplay fan.
It is just fitting that the Vanguard haters will pounce on one line of text to make a major point though. Brad McQuaid is an honourary member of Fires of Heaven but I don't think he is the only dev to be so. It is not necessarily so that he follows every single one of their principles, he may just feel proud that they chose to honour him in such a way.
The fact that Sigil hire Fires of Heaven members does not suggest anything other than the fact that they are suited for the job they are undertaking. I mean do you think he hired them as a thanks? He has put together the team he thinks can make the best MMO, if they are the best then good for him.
Just forget I said that. And I apologise to Brad, should he read this, for assuming his gameplay preferences.
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