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POLL what kind of class system do you want in WAR?
mjkittredge
Member Posts: 126
discuss
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The way these classes in the game are made, with the races having classes designed for specific roles (Tanker, DPS, Healer) but giving each class more specific play styles sounds a lot more interesting. Problem is the more difficult balancing that will be done. But I'll wait to see if Mythic did a good job with balancing.
Well, The options are somwhat restrictive...but i voted for Even.
Rock-Paper-Scissors has Problems...Problems where 50% of the players Plays "rock" and only 10% play "Paper"...so Rock just runs Wild. And when they do Run into Paper, Paper is called overpowered...nerfs ensue and the whole system is thrown out of "balance". What inevitibly ends up happening here is "rock always Killed Scissors, But then they also figgured out a way to kill paper too...so now everyone plays rock." Then the Devs See this and try either nerfing Rock or Buffing paper to make them more/less attractive...I guess what i'm trying to say here is rock-paper-scissors is hard to balance effectivly.
As for the Lore choice where you don't care about equality....well, I'm not exactly sure of what you mean(and i have No familiarity with warhammer lore). However, if my Guess is corect, then i'm to assume that this option supports the "Alpha class" idea. I realy hate Alpha classes in all games that have them. Having classes that are supperior to everyone else in a wide aspects of the game(such as PvP or RvR) is obviously imbalanced and just unfun to play against. I feel this argument applies to PvE as well.
I chose Even for the simple reason of balance and the requisite skill it promotes and rewards. In the other two options for balance you win and loose fights based simply on what class you are playing in comparison to what class your opponent is playing; however, in an everyone is Equal Class balance system you win fights based on who is the better player, who has the better tactics & teamwork, and to some extent who has the better gear. In equal Class balance systems i feel good about beating other people because it was a fair fight, but in rock-paper-scissors or alpha balance systems i feel less satisfied by the kill since i only beat him by virtue of playing a better class.
I should never always die. If archers keep killing me I should be able to take anti-archer skills.
I play warriors because I feel like range cowardly and I like swords, not because I want to get owned by papper.
If I can't determen wehter my character is Rock, Papper or Scissors then it's not my character. It's the Devs'.
I realy like the way this sounds.
Lets say all Classes Start out equal(with no specialization) so that in any given fight each person wins 50/50. Then add specialization choices to the classes that make them more effective at fighting in particular situations.
For Example, Lets say your a Tank and you want to build your charicter to Kill archers effectivly then you are able to do that threw training choices; however, by choosing that training to kill archers, you are passing up other training options that would increase your effectivness against Melee dps types, other tanks, and Healers. And By the Same specialization choices, a Ranged class can also Build thier charicter up to specificly kill tank types at the cost of not training to kill healers, melee dps, or other ranged types effectivly.
To be honest, This sounds like ALOT of fun...people building thier charicters to specificly combat other classes or spearding thier "speacialization" around to be slightly better then the base at killing everyone, but much less effective then somone who specialized all the way.
Great post, I agree. I also like your other post where you advocate specializing vs certain classes, for instance like making a mage slayer or archers bane. Now that would be fun, because everybody gets to CHOOSE with their specific character whether they want to be rock paper or scissors to ANY other class. You won't know when you see that black orc or that dwarven engineer what he's set up to do, unlike other games where once you see that guy in the robe with the staff or the guy in the plate with the giant axe, you Know, right then what you're up against. Customizing your character to beat certain other classes, Now THAT would be exciting pvp!
As for my third option on the poll, I meant that the classes be made more or less equivalent to the tabletop/literature representation of them (not that you only have a few hitpoints and some things die in a single hit, not that equivalent), and created without saying "Oh class x needs to be balanced vs class y and z for PVP". That each class would simply be made on it's own for it's own sake, and however that works out in pvp, so be it. Like EQ1 was for a while in the beginning, before they started balancing it. For instance, the direct damage spells did massive damage, because they were designed for use on NPC monsters who had many many more hit points that a player would. But when that same spell got cast on another player, it was quite overpowering. And this was because classes were developed without much if any consideration for PVP, only for how the dev teams vision for that class was (or so it seemed, IMHO).
Im not the grahmar police by any stretch of the imagination....but wow...just wow.
But to the subject at hand, "What kind of class system do you want in war?"
I enjoyed daoc's approach to pvp. Well organized groups were always more successful than individuals. However it did feel a bit boring being in the typical "SPEC" group where everyone had ONE and mainly only ONE function. For instance my sorcerer was main Crowd Control and Wizards were the brunt of the DPS.
It felt good playing the specific roll for the betterment of the group BUT it was bothersome having so little movement and being unable to contribute to the group in more varied and interesting ways.
And then theres the complete opposite of that style of pvp in WoW. Everyone can kill pretty well, everyone has Crowd Control, everyone can contribute to the group or just go for straight DPS. This style of gameplay makes for extremely selfish players that refuse to play for the benefit of the group. Whens the last time you saw a elemental shamman Heal??
There going to seriously have come up with a very unique pvp system. I voted for the LORE. If they can keep to lore but still keep all classes viable and played then PERFECT. The last thing I would want to see is certain classes not being played because they stayed true to lore, but the class was ultimately GIMP compared to its other Caster/Melee counterparts
unsurpassed. I crushed every peasant revolt that rose up against me!"
Most impressive of all, I was the MASTER of that greatest test of
strategic aptitude: ROCK-PAPER-SCISSORS!"
am going to count down from three, then you must choose a weapon that
will overcome the weapon I choose."
The player can win, lose or tie. If the player wins, he/she gets one of the Halloween Collectors
items. If there's a tie, nothing happens. If the king wins, he kills
the player (who is quickly resurrected). What he says, depends on the
outcome:
King Wins: "I'm afraid I'm just too smart for you. You've lost and so you must die. Justice is cruel, ha ha ha!"
Player Wins:"I have lost? How can that be? DID YOU CHEAT ME? No, I suppose not. Here is your reward."
A Tie:"A tie? Ha ha ha ha ha. Great minds think alike, do they not?"
Oh yes by far Rock, Paper, Scissors. Only a true genius excels at that mindbogglingly strategic game.
[color=#ff6233] Im not the grahmar police by any stretch of the imagination....but wow...just wow.
But to the subject at hand, "What kind of class system do you want in war?"
I enjoyed daoc's approach to pvp. Well organized groups were always more successful than individuals. However it did feel a bit boring being in the typical "SPEC" group where everyone had ONE and mainly only ONE function. For instance my sorcerer was main Crowd Control and Wizards were the brunt of the DPS.
It felt good playing the specific roll for the betterment of the group BUT it was bothersome having so little movement and being unable to contribute to the group in more varied and interesting ways.
And then theres the complete opposite of that style of pvp in WoW. Everyone can kill pretty well, everyone has Crowd Control, everyone can contribute to the group or just go for straight DPS. This style of gameplay makes for extremely selfish players that refuse to play for the benefit of the group. Whens the last time you saw a elemental shamman Heal??
I enjoyed daoc's approach to pvp. Well organized groups were always more successful than individuals. However it did feel a bit boring being in the typical "SPEC" group where everyone had ONE and mainly only ONE function. For instance my sorcerer was main Crowd Control and Wizards were the brunt of the DPS.
It felt good playing the specific roll for the betterment of the group BUT it was bothersome having so little movement and being unable to contribute to the group in more varied and interesting ways.
And then theres the complete opposite of that style of pvp in WoW. Everyone can kill pretty well, everyone has Crowd Control, everyone can contribute to the group or just go for straight DPS. This style of gameplay makes for extremely selfish players that refuse to play for the benefit of the group. Whens the last time you saw a elemental shamman Heal??
There going to seriously have come up with a very unique pvp system. I voted for the LORE. If they can keep to lore but still keep all classes viable and played then PERFECT. The last thing I would want to see is certain classes not being played because they stayed true to lore, but the class was ultimately GIMP compared to its other Caster/Melee counterparts
I think I screwed up my poll with that last question. What I meant with the third choice, was that the Devs would look at the tabletop game, the literature (such as the guidebooks from Games Workshop) and make the character classes as close to those as possible while still making an mmorpg game and all the necessary tweaks that would mean (such as numerous HPs instead of 1 to 5 hits or whatever it was). And that they'd make the classes the best representation of what they were in GWs Warhammer, without saying "Oh we need to have x class have this skill to beat class y or it's unbalanced ect". Just make the characters based on what they are to begin with and let PVP work itself out.
I agree with this poster, sticking close to lore BUT still having all classes viable is the best way to go. It's also a huge challenge as any game developer can tell you. I'm sorry i wasn't more clear with the poll options.
Which FF Character Are You?
I think that class skill and sub classing is the way to go.
This would allow players to round out their character a bit without effecting too much the balance.
For example, a tank can be either offensive (2 hand weapon) or defensive (1 hand and a shield); but then can sub class in magic (and have a fire bolt) or healing (and have first aid to heal up after a fight).
Clearly the class skill would need to be balanced between "realms" and probably works best as rock, paper, scissors (this encourages grouping I always feel); however the sub-class will give players the feel that their character is unique rather than cookie cutter. Since the subclassing will be pretty low grade (a wizard bolt could hit for 1000 hit point where a fighter subclassing in magic might have a bolt for 200) then there would not be a particular need to balance up too much.
What is going to be interesting to see is how much WAR is going to follow DAoC realm skills (points). While it does provide the player with pretty much limitless character development, obviously these high Realm rank players end up pretty powerful; and again this really screws with the realm balance PvP stuff.
I vote for my version of classes system!
Please read the post "My ideal classes/combat system"
the Rock, Paper, Scissor class has its good points and the bad, just like the others. in truth you cant make every class balanced it has been tried and never works. an example.. how do to "balance" a mage type char 's aoe spell damage vs a warriors single swing of his weapon. we all know when mmo's says they try to balance the game more, we know something is getting nerfed. in my opinion it is easyer and more fun to have classes more like the Rock, Paper, Scissors system.
Define Balance.
Are we saying that in grouped combat your class is balanced
or that 1v1 your class is balanced?
Do you think its possible to have all classes balanced with different abilities?
Paper Rock Scissors is a myth.
being a pvp oriented game the classes must be balanced, but at the same time the classes should be relevant to the lore as well.
IMO PvP is never COMPLETELY balanced.
If there arent visible class advantages for you or against you, is the fight even numbered.....and what about environmental advantges? For instance, melee classes in WoW take great advantage of physical structures in BGS where there agressor may be more dependant on Line of site. Hunters do incredibly well in wide open pvp. But if a warrior corners a mage in a small confined area, wheres the mage blinking too?
Catch my drift?
I like the idea of Realms being balanced AS A WHOLE. While this is great with group v group confrontations, 1v1 are decided before you even fight. The latter consequence was definitely undesriable.
This was exemplified in DAOC. My sorcerer was great in a group, but pit against some other casters (1v1) from other realms and I just didnt stand a chance.
The ultimate goal would to balance classes in a group vs group setting while retaining survivability for solo/1v1 pvp. Basically the best of both worlds. I have yet to see a company do it. But Im definitely up for being surprised for the better.
I vote for making the classes based on the warhammer world that already exists. yes there are classes that are better than all others, but it looks like they haven't added them to the player choices (IE SLAYER)
I count him braver who overcomes his desires than him who conquers his enemies; for the hardest victory is over self.
--Aristotle
logangregor you make a good point, and it is frustrating sometimes when its 1 on 1 fights and you classes you run into is the one you cant even kill if you tried. an example in WoW, a warrior almost always looses to classes that can heal. it was me a dwarf war, vs a human pally. it was a long fight, the best i could do when i was low life, was to hamstring and run and bandage myself. everytime he was low he could use his bubble or LoH, etc... id like it if classes where balanced where any class on a 1 vs 1 didnt already know who would win just because his class.
in DDO, what i like about that is you could be 9 levels of fighter, and 1 level pally, so you could use divine wands/scrolls to heal your self.
I vote for making the classes based on the warhammer world that already exists. yes there are classes that are better than all others, but it looks like they haven't added them to the player choices (IE SLAYER)
SLIME FOR THE SLIME THRONE, PUSS FOR THE PUSS LORD!
I'm already a devoted follower of Grandpa Nurgle.