Poemaster just called me an idiot holy shiat. Can I ask you Poemaster how many MMORPG's have you played. I'm sure you could if you would like to name off a bunch of games and I would have no idea if you have played them or not. You didn't pay a damn bit of attention to what I said. I said that WoW dumbs down what mmorpg's could be. It is simplistic and cuts out so many indepth ideas that can be put in mmorpg's. I even gave credit to them making wow very good at what it is.
I didn't compare aspects of those games. I used those games to explain what mmorpg's could be and that is something that wow is not. I'm sorry if you can't grasp the concept of a game that is deeper than....kill npcs to get xp to level cap then kill more npcs to get loot to pvp. First of all I"d like to know where the role playing in WoW comes into effect?? Don't say quest because that isn't playing a role. That is something that is repeated by every player in the damn game over and over to gain xp and items/currency.
I didn't compare WoW to UO and SWG alone oh, no my friend. I compared it to every mmorpg I have ever played. Maybe I should list a few. I'll just look over to my right :P Anarchy Online, dark and light (beta), everquest 2, face of mankind (beta), Final fantasy XI, guild wars(beta) Guild wars (full game), the matrix online (beta), The Saga of Ryzom (beta), shadow bane, Star Wars Galaxies, Word of Warcraft. I myself did not ever played UO pre-trammel, but one of my good friends did and I have listened to the basis for UO and understood it very well. I am someone that looks at the possibilities in something. I see that an mmorpg could be so, so much more than grinding to max level then stupid pointless pvp. It doesn't even matter if WoW places some portion of the game under ffa pvp rules the game basis cannot support the full scope of the idea. Also, if they added player housing that can never be fully realised either. Yes, I have seen games get screwed up by the landscape being cluttered with player housing. This is an easy fix but it has to be decided from the beginning of the games developement to have it worked into the world seamlessly.
Now, as for your problems with pvp and guilds becoming to powerful and cutting parts of the game out for people. This again is something that has to be taken into the developers conscious thoughts from the beginning of the developement. People who hale WoW as being the ultimate in MMORPG's is basically the people who have held them back from being what they could be. The sandbox idea is the only way that I could seen any intelligent person becoming attached to a game. The concept that you can actually change dynamics within the game. You can be part of something that matters within the boundaries of the game.
"RAIDING groups of players working together to get what they want." as for this comment. It just made me laugh. This is logically the center of my arguement. The idea that the end game is nothing more than killing npc's for uba !33t 100t is retarded. (sorry if any mentally challenged persons are reading this. I meant no offense) People that play wow and enjoy that are blind to the fact that it's nothing more than a money trap that blizzard is reaping the rewards from. Why do you think they are raising the level cap to 70?? Yes, that's right to keep that grind machine going to make more money. Instead of creating a basis in the game that allows for social interaction on such a high level that you can actually form governments inside the game. Yes, I said it the possibilities can reach that far. Hell, you could even have elections. People don't seem to understand the idea of how far a MMORPG could go in theory. But yea, go on and call me an idiot it's ok. I know where I stand. You can go off and grind for your shit all you want. I wouldn't expect any less.
Originally posted by Suave Sadly, this topic has been beaten to death more than any other game on this site. Hence the lack of posts. Warcraft will die, and the beginning will be with WAR's release.
I seriously doubt it will become dead cuz of warhammer lol that's like saying hey stop playing that for a game that looks exactly the same.
I agree with the OP on almost all points ....except the need for open PvP . I don't think that would enhance the game any, if anything it causes more harm than good for many players. Back in the days of UO there was a more mature playerbase ...but open PvP in a game like WoW? It would be madness.
Everything else though, yes -- very good points.
I essentially quit playing WoW because you can 'beat' this game in about 3 months of casual play. Level cap & all the best gear (of course I quit a while ago, when the 'best gear' was MC). This was while holding down a full time job and taking night classes, dedicating a few hours an evening and part of the weekends to playing it. After that, there's just nothing to do. Battlegrounds were interesting when first put in but got old quickly. You've already farmed the same raid zones for months. You've done every instance a million times. There's no items you want, your faction grinding is done - so yeah. You've won. Move on. I have never understood what keeps so many people in WoW, if not for its simplicity, its dumbed-down-ness and appeal to the "non-gamer" gamers - by which I mean those who got into the genre with WoW, and not its more complex predecessors ( and successors.)
Gaming? That's not gaming! That's just people sat 'round in costumes drinking...
Nynniva it is good that you agree with me on most points but to take ffa pvp out of the picture it kind of makes the rest of it useless. Without that realism you can't have alot of those other things because doing them would become pointless. I agree with you though in a game like wow open pvp would be dangerously stupid. I am big on balance. With an open pvp system that I would make it where there would be so many punishments for people that just randomly killed other players that not many people would want to do it. I would actually have a jail system and if someone killed X amount of people they get placed in jail for a certain amount of time. All of that would have to be tested and worked with to get the correct settings down but you can see that open pvp can be controlled.
Originally posted by jackilojohn Yea, I guess 7 million people couldn't be wrong right??? How many millions of albums have rascal flats sold? How many did the boy bands of the late 90's early 00's sell?? I guess they were the best to lol. Listen just because alot of people do something doens't mean it's good. The original Ultima Online was better in theory better than WoW can ever be. They just didn't balance it correctly and eventually had to alter it into what it is now which sucks. Not to mention it's so many years behind in graphical power. It sucks that all the new games that come out try to be like wow hoping they can get alot of players to. Wow is just plain boring for me. You just grind and grind and grind that is basically the whole game. I don't get the point in that. I don't see the fun in that. I suppose ignorance is bliss though.
Ok first off i like rascal flatts, they are my favorite group. Other then that im not directly replying to your qoute but just to the topic in general. I like the idea of a more open ended game with more involved crafting, a player run economy, stronger pvp, and player housing and cities. Pretty much i think SWG had the right ideas in these points, and i myself like SWG, but something was missing. PEOPLE! Im not gonna pay money to solo. I want a living breathing game world, that is something WoW has. It may not have all the features i like, but its full of people and that really is the heart and soul of a mmorpg. The players. Without players, your game sucks. So 7 million people make the game more fun then SWG, becuase i was always alone in that game. Grouping was hard and guilds seemed to be for the higher lvls. In WoW you can jump into a guild easy and make lots of freinds. So thats why i like the game.
Comments
I didn't compare aspects of those games. I used those games to explain what mmorpg's could be and that is something that wow is not. I'm sorry if you can't grasp the concept of a game that is deeper than....kill npcs to get xp to level cap then kill more npcs to get loot to pvp. First of all I"d like to know where the role playing in WoW comes into effect?? Don't say quest because that isn't playing a role. That is something that is repeated by every player in the damn game over and over to gain xp and items/currency.
I didn't compare WoW to UO and SWG alone oh, no my friend. I compared it to every mmorpg I have ever played. Maybe I should list a few. I'll just look over to my right :P Anarchy Online, dark and light (beta), everquest 2, face of mankind (beta), Final fantasy XI, guild wars(beta) Guild wars (full game), the matrix online (beta), The Saga of Ryzom (beta), shadow bane, Star Wars Galaxies, Word of Warcraft. I myself did not ever played UO pre-trammel, but one of my good friends did and I have listened to the basis for UO and understood it very well. I am someone that looks at the possibilities in something. I see that an mmorpg could be so, so much more than grinding to max level then stupid pointless pvp. It doesn't even matter if WoW places some portion of the game under ffa pvp rules the game basis cannot support the full scope of the idea. Also, if they added player housing that can never be fully realised either. Yes, I have seen games get screwed up by the landscape being cluttered with player housing. This is an easy fix but it has to be decided from the beginning of the games developement to have it worked into the world seamlessly.
Now, as for your problems with pvp and guilds becoming to powerful and cutting parts of the game out for people. This again is something that has to be taken into the developers conscious thoughts from the beginning of the developement. People who hale WoW as being the ultimate in MMORPG's is basically the people who have held them back from being what they could be. The sandbox idea is the only way that I could seen any intelligent person becoming attached to a game. The concept that you can actually change dynamics within the game. You can be part of something that matters within the boundaries of the game.
"RAIDING groups of players working together to get what they want." as for this comment. It just made me laugh. This is logically the center of my arguement. The idea that the end game is nothing more than killing npc's for uba !33t 100t is retarded. (sorry if any mentally challenged persons are reading this. I meant no offense) People that play wow and enjoy that are blind to the fact that it's nothing more than a money trap that blizzard is reaping the rewards from. Why do you think they are raising the level cap to 70?? Yes, that's right to keep that grind machine going to make more money. Instead of creating a basis in the game that allows for social interaction on such a high level that you can actually form governments inside the game. Yes, I said it the possibilities can reach that far. Hell, you could even have elections. People don't seem to understand the idea of how far a MMORPG could go in theory. But yea, go on and call me an idiot it's ok. I know where I stand. You can go off and grind for your shit all you want. I wouldn't expect any less.
I agree with the OP on almost all points ....except the need for open PvP . I don't think that would enhance the game any, if anything it causes more harm than good for many players. Back in the days of UO there was a more mature playerbase ...but open PvP in a game like WoW? It would be madness.
Everything else though, yes -- very good points.
I essentially quit playing WoW because you can 'beat' this game in about 3 months of casual play. Level cap & all the best gear (of course I quit a while ago, when the 'best gear' was MC). This was while holding down a full time job and taking night classes, dedicating a few hours an evening and part of the weekends to playing it. After that, there's just nothing to do. Battlegrounds were interesting when first put in but got old quickly. You've already farmed the same raid zones for months. You've done every instance a million times. There's no items you want, your faction grinding is done - so yeah. You've won. Move on. I have never understood what keeps so many people in WoW, if not for its simplicity, its dumbed-down-ness and appeal to the "non-gamer" gamers - by which I mean those who got into the genre with WoW, and not its more complex predecessors ( and successors.)
Gaming? That's not gaming!
That's just people sat 'round in costumes drinking...