Both games get the amount of accounts they do for so many diffrent reasons.
WoW got their playerbase because of the IP they where making the game from. And it's easy play style appeals to a much more broad base then any other MMO. The only thing WoW has to thank for keeping there playerbase and even expanding on it, is the friends people have made. You wouldnt belive the amount of people I hear say "I really dont like the game, I just wanna hangout and play with my friends".
Guild Wars is a totally diffrent story. They get there playerbase from the way they do pvp. It's almost like playing a FPS and alot of people who cant get into traditional types of MMO play love this. I also think that saying they have 2 million accounts is abit misleading. I still have an account with them, but I dont play the game at all and I havent for 8 months. Since you dont have to have to pay for the game, using this figure is like a MMO that you pay for counting every subscripton they have ever gotten. Even if a person doesnt play or pay for the game anymore.
A more interesting figure I wish you could get for MMO's tho? One that tells you how many people play they game for atleast 10 - 15 hours a week. Thats where I think the success of the game is. This shows how many people actually enjoy playing your game on a regular basis.
Originally posted by Anofalye can be remove as the "main reason". I am pretty sure there are more PvE servers in sheer numbers anyway.
In EQ, the main servers, PvE-centric, are more than 80% of the basic servers, thereby it can safely be said that PvE-server is 1 of the major reason why EQ was successfull, if not the main reason.
indeed, i don't think there is any question that is the main reason eq was successful. there was only what? 4 or 5 pvp servers at one time?
but not only that, how many pvp focused games have been successful vs pve focused? well for pvp theres shadowbane, UO, EVE,...uhhh i cant really think of any more.
i mean sure there are the Daoc's, wow's, and GW's of the world that are pvp and pve centric, but how much of that success is directly related to the pvp aspect of the games?
what we do know is pve games with little or no pvp have and are sucsessful....however pvp games with little or no pve have not been so lucky (except a few exceptions like EVE if you call that successful, speaking about mmorpg's only ofcource).
what i think is going to draw people to this game is that the PvP will be great because on launch there focusing on the PvP servers this game also has all around great game play and you dont have to grind all the time like in L2 and even lvl 60 grinding in WoW gets old
and guild wars damn i can play that for like 10 minutes before i get bored. they have so many people because its free to play. thats what all the sissy mmo players play because they cant commit to a good game that takes time
FFXi has forced grouping ,wich scares alot of players [fair arguement]but is a vastly superior game to WOW nonetheless.
EQ2 is also vastly superior to WOW however it is VERY apparent there is large amount of people who hate SOE,for alot of stupid reasons really.All these same people who hate SOE prolly own PS2's[hypocrites]
Both FFXI and SOE[kept RMT in there own game/servers]have taken a larger stance against RMT than WOW has.
Having a large number of accounts[alot are RMT]is nothing to brag about when its for all the wrong reasons.If you want to solo why even bother to buy an MMO account?PVP is a joke when top notch gear and ease of levelling is achieved through RMT'ing.
This game got big because timing was right and marketing was on the largest scale ever done by a game.This game does not have a large amount of accounts for any good reasons other than to say "WOW i can solo"and this argueably not a good reason either.Non policing and a don't care about anything attitude from blizzard goes along way.[ingame funeral]NO RESPECT!
It is very apparent[not even argueable] that there are alot of extremely lazy players out there,who will also go to any extreme to cheat[RMT]this game follows that pattern that used to ONLY be in ASIAN type free to play games.This is the first game to follow that pattern[north american] so alot of the players who i don't want anything to do with hit this game up.Oh did i mention the very high scale of kiddie trash talking that goes in this game?ya good job blizzard you control absolutely nothing that any MATURE player would want in there game.
If we can keep all the garbage type kiddie players in one large scale game "GREAT" keep them all there and let the other games flurish.Wow can brag about 100 million kiddie accounts while other games can brag about 2 million mature players,ya i pick the latter without a second thought.
SO far SIGIL has shown alot of maturity,to not be pushed around by RMT or MS,i hope this game delivers a great product,while not turning it into another WOW game.A game that is designed around soloing will not Have a good battle system and will not encourage players joining together.Mature players don't want to hear L33t talk or kiddies bragging about end game guilds,or bragging about how there the highest level or OWN PVP.This is all childish stuff that WOW can have.Maybe everytime a wow player wants to brag about there game try posting the RMT numbers alongside it??show everyone just how trashy WOW is.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
They are both simplistic, linear games. Slow paced with no risk, perfect for children. Kinda like gerber baby food, ya gotta eat mush before you can eat steak.
Originally posted by achellis what i think is going to draw people to this game is that the PvP will be great because on launch there focusing on the PvP servers this game also has all around great game play and you dont have to grind all the time like in L2 and even lvl 60 grinding in WoW gets old
and guild wars damn i can play that for like 10 minutes before i get bored. they have so many people because its free to play. thats what all the sissy mmo players play because they cant commit to a good game that takes time
HARDCORE GAMERS FOREVER
I (and I am sure many of the thousands who play GW hardcore style) take offence at your infantile slur. Like any mmo you can play casual or hardcore. I play GW 35 hours/week on average and have done since BETA approx 18 months; gaming hours totalling just under 2,500.
Vanguard is a WoW clone as the devs all admit to playing WoW hardcore style. Even if Vanguard could produce a pvp as good as GW I would still dispute your other opinions. I am sure some people will find this game enjoyable but as a hardcore game player I will avoid this (as well as WoW) for a large number of reasons that u can see on my other posts.
Originally posted by transitbus Lets see... WoW ease of use and great marketing plus massive word of mouth hyping over 2 years. Guild wars cheap cost model = many users. The popularity was not from PVP.
I agree, WoW's pvp was a joke on release, and many still laugh at it. While the battlegrounds are fun, it isn't really an immersive online experience... it isn't much different from playing against a CPU with the lack of player interaction.
Originally posted by drunkie14 Both games get the amount of accounts they do for so many diffrent reasons.WoW got their playerbase because of the IP they where making the game from. And it's easy play style appeals to a much more broad base then any other MMO. The only thing WoW has to thank for keeping there playerbase and even expanding on it, is the friends people have made. You wouldnt belive the amount of people I hear say "I really dont like the game, I just wanna hangout and play with my friends".Guild Wars is a totally diffrent story. They get there playerbase from the way they do pvp. It's almost like playing a FPS and alot of people who cant get into traditional types of MMO play love this. I also think that saying they have 2 million accounts is abit misleading. I still have an account with them, but I dont play the game at all and I havent for 8 months. Since you dont have to have to pay for the game, using this figure is like a MMO that you pay for counting every subscripton they have ever gotten. Even if a person doesnt play or pay for the game anymore.A more interesting figure I wish you could get for MMO's tho? One that tells you how many people play they game for atleast 10 - 15 hours a week. Thats where I think the success of the game is. This shows how many people actually enjoy playing your game on a regular basis.
I really enjoy Guild Wars and all I play is pve. After having played EQ1 for so long there was a let down after I hit level 20 in Guild Wars and I wondered if that was all but later I picked it up again to discover it's tremendous lateral progression depth and now I prefer it over vertical progression centric games. I don't miss the never ending level and gear grind. I'm free to instantly reroll secondary classes, char and class attributes. I'm free to take a hiatus and come back in a month and free to not have to grind levels and gear to catch up with friends and still be effective. Free to equiq any weapon or shield to my char. Free to solo effectively with any class with tweaking for the adventure. Not being locked into a build is tremondous freedom. Free to not venture out alone, recruit henchies and now heroes that I can control all the way down to spell selection, char and class attributes and positioning in the fight and even cast their spells manually.
On one account I can effectively have three controllable bots (heroes) for one price on one machine that runs one instance of the game, hows that for Freedom.
Originally posted by baphamet Originally posted by Anofalye can be remove as the "main reason". I am pretty sure there are more PvE servers in sheer numbers anyway.
In EQ, the main servers, PvE-centric, are more than 80% of the basic servers, thereby it can safely be said that PvE-server is 1 of the major reason why EQ was successfull, if not the main reason.
indeed, i don't think there is any question that is the main reason eq was successful. there was only what? 4 or 5 pvp servers at one time?
but not only that, how many pvp focused games have been successful vs pve focused? well for pvp theres shadowbane, UO, EVE,...uhhh i cant really think of any more.
i mean sure there are the Daoc's, wow's, and GW's of the world that are pvp and pve centric, but how much of that success is directly related to the pvp aspect of the games?
what we do know is pve games with little or no pvp have and are sucsessful....however pvp games with little or no pve have not been so lucky (except a few exceptions like EVE if you call that successful, speaking about mmorpg's only ofcource).
On the money. Pve by far is the money maker and are the majority of players.
Originally posted by achellis what i think is going to draw people to this game is that the PvP will be great because on launch there focusing on the PvP servers this game also has all around great game play and you dont have to grind all the time like in L2 and even lvl 60 grinding in WoW gets old
and guild wars damn i can play that for like 10 minutes before i get bored. they have so many people because its free to play. thats what all the sissy mmo players play because they cant commit to a good game that takes time
HARDCORE GAMERS FOREVER
Wrong, Vanguard is primarily a PVE game with one PvP server on launch at least that's what's been published. Guild Wars is a great game but if you are a vertical progression (exp & well gear) player you'll just find disappointment in Guild Wars unless you adapt to the lateral progression which is it's strength and btw that makes it very well suited for PVP. It's may well be the king of PVP online RPG's. I played EQ1 for 6 years with many accounts. Experienced mature players know you're speaking unintelligently about what what you don't know.
I really enjoy Guild Wars and all I play is pve. After having played EQ1 for so long there was a let down after I hit level 20 in Guild Wars and I wondered if that was all but later I picked it up again to discover it's tremendous lateral progression depth and now I prefer it over vertical progression centric games. I don't miss the never ending level and gear grind. I'm free to instantly reroll secondary classes, char and class attributes. I'm free to take a hiatus and come back in a month and free to not have to grind levels and gear to catch up with friends and still be effective. Free to equiq any weapon or shield to my char. Free to solo effectively with any class with tweaking for the adventure. Not being locked into a build is tremondous freedom. Free to not venture out alone, recruit henchies and now heroes that I can control all the way down to spell selection, char and class attributes and positioning in the fight and even cast their spells manually.
On one account I can effectively have three controllable bots (heroes) for one price on one machine that runs one instance of the game, hows that for Freedom.
Spiritglow
I agree with you entirely.
Particularly as playing up to level 20 is good fun but the real game starts from there. The content is incredibly big and because the emphasis is no longer on grinding up levels (the game has greater subtley than WoW), from the point of ascending is where the PvE is at. In fact you could, on Factions, make level 20 within 24 hours, and so GW is not a typical mmo model (which EQ is, WoW is, and Vanguard is looking to be i.e. an Asian grindfest clone aka Lineagewhich incidently was reported as having a GDP the size of Russia at one point! so a lot like WoW).
However as this thread is looking at the two different customer bases it would appear that a lot more people would prefer to pay to grind than play a more cerebal game for free...funny old world huh!
I really enjoy Guild Wars and all I play is pve. After having played EQ1 for so long there was a let down after I hit level 20 in Guild Wars and I wondered if that was all but later I picked it up again to discover it's tremendous lateral progression depth and now I prefer it over vertical progression centric games. I don't miss the never ending level and gear grind. I'm free to instantly reroll secondary classes, char and class attributes. I'm free to take a hiatus and come back in a month and free to not have to grind levels and gear to catch up with friends and still be effective. Free to equiq any weapon or shield to my char. Free to solo effectively with any class with tweaking for the adventure. Not being locked into a build is tremondous freedom. Free to not venture out alone, recruit henchies and now heroes that I can control all the way down to spell selection, char and class attributes and positioning in the fight and even cast their spells manually.
On one account I can effectively have three controllable bots (heroes) for one price on one machine that runs one instance of the game, hows that for Freedom.
Spiritglow
I agree with you entirely.
Particularly as playing up to level 20 is good fun but the real game starts from there. The content is incredibly big and because the emphasis is no longer on grinding up levels (the game has greater subtley than WoW), from the point of ascending is where the PvE is at. In fact you could, on Factions, make level 20 within 24 hours, and so GW is not a typical mmo model (which EQ is, WoW is, and Vanguard is looking to be i.e. an Asian grindfest clone aka Lineagewhich incidently was reported as having a GDP the size of Russia at one point! so a lot like WoW).
However as this thread is looking at the two different customer bases it would appear that a lot more people would prefer to pay to grind than play a more cerebal game for free...funny old world huh!
Yep the game really begins at level 20 but many level and gear grinders will miss it because the progress at that time becomes lateral and they're still looking for level and gear grinding.
Guild Wars is still pay to play but it's a different pay model. Guild Wars pay model is more moderate then paying for the game and expansions and still on the hook for monthly payments to play.
I don't want to start a flame fest between customers of different play and pay models after all there are some online RPG's that are free to play like Anarchy Online. It's just that I've moved to being more of a lateral progression player then the vertical for levels and gear. I consider myself lucky that Guild Wars pay model just happens to be less and if one uses bots then it's way less than traditional online RPG's.
Having said all that I have to say I'll give Vanguard a chance but I'll not pay monthly for the pleasure of a level and gear grindfest anymore if that's what it truely is. For those who want to I say have at it.
Originally posted by havocthefirs They are both simplistic, linear games. Slow paced with no risk, perfect for children. Kinda like gerber baby food, ya gotta eat mush before you can eat steak.
I can't speak for WoW because I haven't played it (too cartoony for my taste) but I have played Guild Wars and you're mistaken about Guild Wars. There is risk in Guild Wars just not the kind you prefer. It's really not a choice between eating baby food or steak. That's just you attempting to defend your play choice and of course you want to be right. Play what you prefer we don't mind or rather many of us don't mind.
Originally posted by havocthefirs They are both simplistic, linear games. Slow paced with no risk, perfect for children. Kinda like gerber baby food, ya gotta eat mush before you can eat steak.
I can't speak for WoW because I haven't played it (too cartoony for my taste) but I have played Guild Wars and you're mistaken about Guild Wars. There is risk in Guild Wars just not the kind you prefer. It's really not a choice between eating baby food or steak. That's just you attempting to defend your play choice and of course you want to be right. Play what you prefer we don't mind or rather many of us don't mind.
Spiritglow
Well I've played them both and the only risk I could see was death from boredom.
Originally posted by havocthefirs Originally posted by spiritglow Originally posted by havocthefirs They are both simplistic, linear games. Slow paced with no risk, perfect for children. Kinda like gerber baby food, ya gotta eat mush before you can eat steak.
I can't speak for WoW because I haven't played it (too cartoony for my taste) but I have played Guild Wars and you're mistaken about Guild Wars. There is risk in Guild Wars just not the kind you prefer. It's really not a choice between eating baby food or steak. That's just you attempting to defend your play choice and of course you want to be right. Play what you prefer we don't mind or rather many of us don't mind.
Spiritglow Well I've played them both and the only risk I could see was death from boredom. Goodluck in your gaming ventures.
You forget that warcraft is building on a serie of 3 games before wow. Warcraft 1-3 (and then 2 more expansions) Which is probably the worlds best strategy game. And has ALOT of players.
I'd say very much of the old warcraft community started to play wow cause of the story line.
Starwars Galaxies, An Empier Diveded, That's what it says on my box anyway.
Comments
Both games get the amount of accounts they do for so many diffrent reasons.
WoW got their playerbase because of the IP they where making the game from. And it's easy play style appeals to a much more broad base then any other MMO. The only thing WoW has to thank for keeping there playerbase and even expanding on it, is the friends people have made. You wouldnt belive the amount of people I hear say "I really dont like the game, I just wanna hangout and play with my friends".
Guild Wars is a totally diffrent story. They get there playerbase from the way they do pvp. It's almost like playing a FPS and alot of people who cant get into traditional types of MMO play love this. I also think that saying they have 2 million accounts is abit misleading. I still have an account with them, but I dont play the game at all and I havent for 8 months. Since you dont have to have to pay for the game, using this figure is like a MMO that you pay for counting every subscripton they have ever gotten. Even if a person doesnt play or pay for the game anymore.
A more interesting figure I wish you could get for MMO's tho? One that tells you how many people play they game for atleast 10 - 15 hours a week. Thats where I think the success of the game is. This shows how many people actually enjoy playing your game on a regular basis.
indeed, i don't think there is any question that is the main reason eq was successful. there was only what? 4 or 5 pvp servers at one time?
but not only that, how many pvp focused games have been successful vs pve focused? well for pvp theres shadowbane, UO, EVE,...uhhh i cant really think of any more.
i mean sure there are the Daoc's, wow's, and GW's of the world that are pvp and pve centric, but how much of that success is directly related to the pvp aspect of the games?
what we do know is pve games with little or no pvp have and are sucsessful....however pvp games with little or no pve have not been so lucky (except a few exceptions like EVE if you call that successful, speaking about mmorpg's only ofcource).
this game also has all around great game play and you dont have to grind all the time like in L2 and even lvl 60 grinding in WoW gets old
and guild wars damn i can play that for like 10 minutes before i get bored. they have so many people because its free to play. thats what all the sissy mmo players play because they cant commit to a good game that takes time
HARDCORE GAMERS
FOREVER
FFXi has forced grouping ,wich scares alot of players [fair arguement]but is a vastly superior game to WOW nonetheless.
EQ2 is also vastly superior to WOW however it is VERY apparent there is large amount of people who hate SOE,for alot of stupid reasons really.All these same people who hate SOE prolly own PS2's[hypocrites]
Both FFXI and SOE[kept RMT in there own game/servers]have taken a larger stance against RMT than WOW has.
Having a large number of accounts[alot are RMT]is nothing to brag about when its for all the wrong reasons.If you want to solo why even bother to buy an MMO account?PVP is a joke when top notch gear and ease of levelling is achieved through RMT'ing.
This game got big because timing was right and marketing was on the largest scale ever done by a game.This game does not have a large amount of accounts for any good reasons other than to say "WOW i can solo"and this argueably not a good reason either.Non policing and a don't care about anything attitude from blizzard goes along way.[ingame funeral]NO RESPECT!
It is very apparent[not even argueable] that there are alot of extremely lazy players out there,who will also go to any extreme to cheat[RMT]this game follows that pattern that used to ONLY be in ASIAN type free to play games.This is the first game to follow that pattern[north american] so alot of the players who i don't want anything to do with hit this game up.Oh did i mention the very high scale of kiddie trash talking that goes in this game?ya good job blizzard you control absolutely nothing that any MATURE player would want in there game.
If we can keep all the garbage type kiddie players in one large scale game "GREAT" keep them all there and let the other games flurish.Wow can brag about 100 million kiddie accounts while other games can brag about 2 million mature players,ya i pick the latter without a second thought.
SO far SIGIL has shown alot of maturity,to not be pushed around by RMT or MS,i hope this game delivers a great product,while not turning it into another WOW game.A game that is designed around soloing will not Have a good battle system and will not encourage players joining together.Mature players don't want to hear L33t talk or kiddies bragging about end game guilds,or bragging about how there the highest level or OWN PVP.This is all childish stuff that WOW can have.Maybe everytime a wow player wants to brag about there game try posting the RMT numbers alongside it??show everyone just how trashy WOW is.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
I (and I am sure many of the thousands who play GW hardcore style) take offence at your infantile slur. Like any mmo you can play casual or hardcore. I play GW 35 hours/week on average and have done since BETA approx 18 months; gaming hours totalling just under 2,500.
Vanguard is a WoW clone as the devs all admit to playing WoW hardcore style. Even if Vanguard could produce a pvp as good as GW I would still dispute your other opinions. I am sure some people will find this game enjoyable but as a hardcore game player I will avoid this (as well as WoW) for a large number of reasons that u can see on my other posts.
While the battlegrounds are fun, it isn't really an immersive online
experience... it isn't much different from playing against a CPU with
the lack of player interaction.
On one account I can effectively have three controllable bots (heroes) for one price on one machine that runs one instance of the game, hows that for Freedom.
Spiritglow
indeed, i don't think there is any question that is the main reason eq was successful. there was only what? 4 or 5 pvp servers at one time?
but not only that, how many pvp focused games have been successful vs pve focused? well for pvp theres shadowbane, UO, EVE,...uhhh i cant really think of any more.
i mean sure there are the Daoc's, wow's, and GW's of the world that are pvp and pve centric, but how much of that success is directly related to the pvp aspect of the games?
what we do know is pve games with little or no pvp have and are sucsessful....however pvp games with little or no pve have not been so lucky (except a few exceptions like EVE if you call that successful, speaking about mmorpg's only ofcource).
On the money. Pve by far is the money maker and are the majority of players.
Spiritglow
Spiritgow
I dont think ppl plays Vanguard for its PVP.
Oh wait, I know they dont.
Starwars Galaxies, An Empier Diveded, That's what it says on my box anyway.
On one account I can effectively have three controllable bots (heroes) for one price on one machine that runs one instance of the game, hows that for Freedom.
Spiritglow
I agree with you entirely.
Particularly as playing up to level 20 is good fun but the real game starts from there. The content is incredibly big and because the emphasis is no longer on grinding up levels (the game has greater subtley than WoW), from the point of ascending is where the PvE is at. In fact you could, on Factions, make level 20 within 24 hours, and so GW is not a typical mmo model (which EQ is, WoW is, and Vanguard is looking to be i.e. an Asian grindfest clone aka Lineage which incidently was reported as having a GDP the size of Russia at one point! so a lot like WoW).
However as this thread is looking at the two different customer bases it would appear that a lot more people would prefer to pay to grind than play a more cerebal game for free...funny old world huh!
Originally posted by spiritglow
I really enjoy Guild Wars and all I play is pve. After
having played EQ1 for so long there was a let down after I hit level 20 in
Guild Wars and I wondered if that was all but later I picked it up again to
discover it's tremendous lateral progression depth and now I prefer it over
vertical progression centric games. I don't miss the never ending level and
gear grind. I'm free to instantly reroll secondary classes, char and class
attributes. I'm free to take a hiatus and come back in a month and free to not
have to grind levels and gear to catch up with friends and still be effective.
Free to equiq any weapon or shield to my char. Free to solo effectively with any
class with tweaking for the adventure. Not being locked into a build is
tremondous freedom. Free to not venture out alone, recruit henchies and now
heroes that I can control all the way down to spell selection, char and class
attributes and positioning in the fight and even cast their spells manually.
On one account I can effectively have three controllable bots (heroes) for one
price on one machine that runs one instance of the game, hows that for Freedom.
Spiritglow
I agree with you entirely.
Particularly as playing up to level 20 is good fun but the real game starts
from there. The content is incredibly big and because the emphasis is no longer
on grinding up levels (the game has greater subtley than WoW),
from the point of ascending is where the PvE is at. In fact you could, on Factions,
make level 20 within 24 hours, and so GW is not a typical mmo
model (which EQ is, WoW is, and Vanguard
is looking to be i.e. an Asian grindfest clone aka Lineage which
incidently was reported as having a GDP the size of Russia at one point! so
a lot like WoW).
However as this thread is looking at the two different customer bases it
would appear that a lot more people would prefer to pay to grind than play a
more cerebal game for free...funny old world huh!
Yep the game really begins at level 20 but many level and gear grinders will miss it because the progress at that time becomes lateral and they're still looking for level and gear grinding.
Guild Wars is still pay to play but it's a different pay model. Guild Wars pay model is more moderate then paying for the game and expansions and still on the hook for monthly payments to play.
I don't want to start a flame fest between customers of different play and pay models after all there are some online RPG's that are free to play like Anarchy Online. It's just that I've moved to being more of a lateral progression player then the vertical for levels and gear. I consider myself lucky that Guild Wars pay model just happens to be less and if one uses bots then it's way less than traditional online RPG's.
Having said all that I have to say I'll give Vanguard a chance but I'll not pay monthly for the pleasure of a level and gear grindfest anymore if that's what it truely is. For those who want to I say have at it.
SpiritglowSpiritglow
Spiritglow
Well I've played them both and the only risk I could see was death from boredom.
Spiritglow
Well I've played them both and the only risk I could see was death from boredom.
Goodluck in your gaming ventures.
Spiritglow
Yeah I played the Vanguard Beta,
Not very impressed, couldnt get into the game due to its likeness to everquest (A great game way back when but id rather not pay to play EQ 1.5)
Hope their pvp makes some ways to recompense
You forget that warcraft is building on a serie of 3 games before wow. Warcraft 1-3 (and then 2 more expansions) Which is probably the worlds best strategy game. And has ALOT of players.
I'd say very much of the old warcraft community started to play wow cause of the story line.
Starwars Galaxies, An Empier Diveded, That's what it says on my box anyway.