There wont be any greifers and campers in DF. There wont be any "noobs", A new character can beat up a veteran. And if you kill a character in a spawn city, you will be forced to run for your life. And outside are all other runners waiting to kill... And with full loot you wont just throw yourself into every fight you can. And about to join a clan or not, if you want to be part of the race/clan wars of the game you need to. You cant fight a war alone... It will be fun to see the first weeks when DF is released and all greafers and campers, just standing and beginning to realize this is not SHADOWBANE or WoW. That alone is worth all this waiting.
There will be greifers, campers and noobs.
Griefers will always exist, they may have a rougher time if they 'hang near a starting city', but they'll find ways to grief.
Campers will find ways to camp you. Since there is a form of 'bindstone' it is possible to get camped. If you have a fixed location to respawn, you have the potential to be camped.
Noobs. Just because a new character can take down a vet character, doesn't mean a noob to the game will be able to. They have the potential to, but they are still new to the game, are fairly clueless of the rules, and are likely to get exploited by griefers because of this fact.
Now, overall I know what you are saying, and that basically is while the above 3 groups are possible, they will be a lot more difficult to play in commonly known fashion to MMOs. People evolve and adapt tho, noobs aren't noobs forever, but new players are always (hopefully) coming into the game.
It's because of full loot, unrestricted PVP that players have the ability and option to exact thier own justice. Which in turn cuts down on the amount of griefers and campers, and helps the noobs survive a bit longer to lvl up to 'not-so-noobish'.
Well, I know that it was an old interview.. But they specifically state that they are well aware of the faults of the SB System and are adjusting around that!
"Speaking about the losing side quitting the game because rebuilding is too hard, I think it is important to break the entire gameplay down into smaller steps. In Shadowbane you could build a city for months, only to have it burned down completely in a few hours. It is a cool sounding feature on paper, but in the end I think it is punishing the losing side way too much. I don't have any numbers to back it up, but I am pretty confident that every guild that had their city burned down, saw a good percentage of their players quitting the game in the following few days. Rebuilding after defeat was just too hard and tedious, and most players didn't want to go through with that again.
In Dark Age of Camelot they adopted the small steps philosophy. You can take over another guild's keep, and the losing side doesn't lose that much. Additionally, the losers can get the keep back fairly easily; it hasn't been burned down to the ground. I personally feel that the risks and rewards are too small, close to insignificant in Dark Age of Camelot, but still better than in Shadowbane.
I think a better balance lies somewhere between Shadowbane and Dark Age of Camelot. Let the conqueror take over the city and allow them to destroy a few assets if they so desire, but limit how much they can burn down. Basically you want them taking over instead of destroying. This way the losing guild has the chance to lick their wounds, regroup and try to take their city back through diplomacy, trade, or by force.
You keep most of the gameplay about building and taking over, instead of destruction, which ultimately chases players away from the game. The fun part in both Shadowbane and Dark Age of Camelot is the fighting anyway, so now there's always something to fight over.
It's still possible to burn down entire cities in Darkfall, but only a few buildings / structures every so often, giving the losing team the possibility of reclaiming what was theirs before it is forever gone. With this system we hope to increase the fun and excitement of waging war, and decrease the sense of a definitive Game Over."
"Can't... Sleep... The Carebears... Will get... Their way..."
Players are the ones who need to learn from Shadowbane.. If you are the type of player to quit because you lost all your good loot and you town was destroyed then dont play this game.
If you cant handle loss steer clear of Darkfall... This game is full pvp and full loot with the possibility of loosing everything you have worked for so if that scares you stay the fuck away..
Darkfall will have some carebears in the beginning, but they will soon face the hard brutal reality....and become battle garden PvPers.....and love it.....
And dont forget Darkfall need carebears to.
We maybe not like the sound of it but its still true.
Let's not escape the fact that DarkFall's PvP has been copied off Shadowbane. And, although I'm a SB fan, the developers treated the community like crap so long i've long since lost love for those guys. (Even if they quit Wolfpack after the game started to go down the drain) The current guys are alright tho. But I digress. the beauty of Darkfall is that they admit their mistakes. They thought they could do the whole game in FPS view, they've since admitted that might not work and they're testing it. Shadowbane PvP was, hands down, great because it was political. No other game has done it in quite that fashion. At least to me. -Syloc
The political game is what makes a pvp game work. WOW has no politics, and therefore sucks imo.
But the actual fighting pvp, SUCKED in SB. It was terrible. 1v1, GvG, ZvZ.
Darkfall will have some carebears in the beginning, but they will soon face the hard brutal reality....and become battle garden PvPers.....and love it..... And dont forget Darkfall need carebears to. We maybe not like the sound of it but its still true.
i wanna b a battle garden pvper too - i think we all do (campaign against battle hardened begins here...)
I used to follow Darkfall's development....years ago. At least they haven't given up yet.
Ok, so on topic: I only played Shadowbane after it was free so I assume I missed it's glory days. I can't say I was very impressed with it.
Griefers/gankers I didn't really care about. I can shrug off that sort of thing. It was annoying at times but I expect to be killed in a PvP game so it didn't really bother me.
Exploits were a little depressing. I was exploiting pathing/terrain glitches within a couple of weeks after I started playing. You'd think they would have had most of that stuff fixed by the time I started. But if it's there I'll abuse it just because everyone else does.
I didn't like being forced to join a guild. I never like that. If I join a guild I want it to be because I have gotten to know some of the people and I like them. I don't like being put in a position where I have to just pick one and hope for the best.
The PvP fighting didn't seem very good to me. One on one it was basically just spam your biggest damage as fast as you can and in a few seconds one of you dies. It was too quick and simple. In groups...well I can't really say because I had some serious lag problems whenever there were too many people around.
But the biggest problem for me was the lack of PvE content. I mean I like PvP but I also like to have other things to do. In fact I like it when PvP just sort of spontaneously happens while PvEing. But the PvE content in shadowbane was just awfull. And there wasn't much of it to begin with. PvP is great but there needs to be a world for it to happen in, not just a blank expanse of empty land with a few camps of mentally retarded mobs scattered around here and there.
In Shadowbane I played a big ol' bull by the name of Alpha Omega. It was my third MMO and I was absolutely enthralled by the whole build a city, lose a city, tear a city down game play. I'd still be playing but the over all lack of content just drove me elsewhere. Yup, I've played on again and off again for awhile.
In the game I was a bit of a merc and figure I'll stick to that when I play other open PvP games. I go where the action is. If it was the RP guilds fighting the griefers. I helped the RP guilds. When the RP guild booted me out because I had to kill a guy who was griefing while saying he was a RPer. I quit the Blood Axe Clan and joined the Brotherthood. I was there when we razed, countless teams that wanted one thing and did another.
Then when the Brotherhood got too immature, I played turncoat with a small guild of old pals of mine and tried to start up trouble between BoD and the Undead Lords. LoL
It was fun. I miss the open atmosphere.
Been following Darkfall for awhile and over all, I like what I see. I just hope they realize how fun the open stuff is and how boring the carebear catering really is.
ALLLLLLLL MAAASSHHH! I miss Alpha. Nothing like having a +40 str rune maxed out on a barbarian minotaur with hardly any health. LoL
I kill other players because they're smarter than AI, sometimes.
I think it is a common misconception that people quit Shadowbane because of loss. People that quit a game because of a lost city are people that will quit after a matter of time no matter what the ultimate reason. The truth of it is that Shadowbane was structurally and logistically a poorly designed game. It went places no other game had done before. Many say that Darkfall is vapor and what have you but to that I say whatever. Darkfall is the only game that has taken the burden of carrying the torch of the dynamic world. I have faith in the DF staff because I have faith in the ideas they hold. They will make a great game because they know what a great game IS. And that game, the one with a truly dynamic world will attract and HOLD customers. Just watch. The last thing anyone from Aventurine should do at this stage is cut corners.
www.revolutiong.com Stand up and take part in the evolution of MMORPG's.
Comments
There will be greifers, campers and noobs.
Griefers will always exist, they may have a rougher time if they 'hang near a starting city', but they'll find ways to grief.
Campers will find ways to camp you. Since there is a form of 'bindstone' it is possible to get camped. If you have a fixed location to respawn, you have the potential to be camped.
Noobs. Just because a new character can take down a vet character, doesn't mean a noob to the game will be able to. They have the potential to, but they are still new to the game, are fairly clueless of the rules, and are likely to get exploited by griefers because of this fact.
Now, overall I know what you are saying, and that basically is while the above 3 groups are possible, they will be a lot more difficult to play in commonly known fashion to MMOs. People evolve and adapt tho, noobs aren't noobs forever, but new players are always (hopefully) coming into the game.
It's because of full loot, unrestricted PVP that players have the ability and option to exact thier own justice. Which in turn cuts down on the amount of griefers and campers, and helps the noobs survive a bit longer to lvl up to 'not-so-noobish'.
Niccoli
Yup.
Atleast you understod my point. I must only add this
And with the noob thing I also mean if you have an alt character....you can kick ass.
The campers I mean there is no static spawn. And if they take my town..I cant spawn there anymore.
And most important as you said, everyone need to adapt and owecome to be a good greifer or camper DF.
Its not like change from SWG to WoW.
Well, I know that it was an old interview.. But they specifically state that they are well aware of the faults of the SB System and are adjusting around that!
"Can't... Sleep... The Carebears... Will get... Their way..."
Players are the ones who need to learn from Shadowbane.. If you are the type of player to quit because you lost all your good loot and you town was destroyed then dont play this game.
If you cant handle loss steer clear of Darkfall... This game is full pvp and full loot with the possibility of loosing everything you have worked for so if that scares you stay the fuck away..
Darkfall doesnt need Carebares
WOW does..
Afraid of Loss ?
Blizzard Needs You!
Darkfall will have some carebears in the beginning, but they will soon face the hard brutal reality....and become battle garden PvPers.....and love it.....
And dont forget Darkfall need carebears to.
We maybe not like the sound of it but its still true.
The political game is what makes a pvp game work. WOW has no politics, and therefore sucks imo.
But the actual fighting pvp, SUCKED in SB. It was terrible. 1v1, GvG, ZvZ.
Darkfall looks very promising on this area.
i wanna b a battle garden pvper too - i think we all do
(campaign against battle hardened begins here...)
I used to follow Darkfall's development....years ago. At least they haven't given up yet.
Ok, so on topic: I only played Shadowbane after it was free so I assume I missed it's glory days. I can't say I was very impressed with it.
Griefers/gankers I didn't really care about. I can shrug off that sort of thing. It was annoying at times but I expect to be killed in a PvP game so it didn't really bother me.
Exploits were a little depressing. I was exploiting pathing/terrain glitches within a couple of weeks after I started playing. You'd think they would have had most of that stuff fixed by the time I started. But if it's there I'll abuse it just because everyone else does.
I didn't like being forced to join a guild. I never like that. If I join a guild I want it to be because I have gotten to know some of the people and I like them. I don't like being put in a position where I have to just pick one and hope for the best.
The PvP fighting didn't seem very good to me. One on one it was basically just spam your biggest damage as fast as you can and in a few seconds one of you dies. It was too quick and simple. In groups...well I can't really say because I had some serious lag problems whenever there were too many people around.
But the biggest problem for me was the lack of PvE content. I mean I like PvP but I also like to have other things to do. In fact I like it when PvP just sort of spontaneously happens while PvEing. But the PvE content in shadowbane was just awfull. And there wasn't much of it to begin with. PvP is great but there needs to be a world for it to happen in, not just a blank expanse of empty land with a few camps of mentally retarded mobs scattered around here and there.
In the game I was a bit of a merc and figure I'll stick to that when I play other open PvP games. I go where the action is. If it was the RP guilds fighting the griefers. I helped the RP guilds. When the RP guild booted me out because I had to kill a guy who was griefing while saying he was a RPer. I quit the Blood Axe Clan and joined the Brotherthood. I was there when we razed, countless teams that wanted one thing and did another.
Then when the Brotherhood got too immature, I played turncoat with a small guild of old pals of mine and tried to start up trouble between BoD and the Undead Lords. LoL
It was fun. I miss the open atmosphere.
Been following Darkfall for awhile and over all, I like what I see. I just hope they realize how fun the open stuff is and how boring the carebear catering really is.
ALLLLLLLL MAAASSHHH! I miss Alpha. Nothing like having a +40 str rune maxed out on a barbarian minotaur with hardly any health. LoL
I kill other players because they're smarter than AI, sometimes.
www.revolutiong.com
Stand up and take part in the evolution of MMORPG's.