Originally posted by Lightleaf Why do you guys keep thrashing the NGE? Sure, lots and lots of amazing and core features that made SWG what it -was- is gone, but, you have to look at the new features that make it into a new game that is quite enjoyable. I can understand your pain, but, whining is NOT going to do anything. Another reason would be that SOE does not like how you guys constantly trash their work and de-constructively criticize what you cannot create. A lot of you guys don't deserve a Pre-CU/NGE server.
Lossing 65% of your paying customers in less then 30 days *is* the issue.
Nothing is "new" in SWG other then the blind sheepish attitudes of so many of it's player base.
throwing rocks at girls used to be *fun*. Playing in mud puddles with "hot wheels" used to be *fun*. My father used to think slaming speed-balls was *fun*. Those three things are likely to bring more enjoyment from a consumer base then would be obtained from paying $15 a month for access to current SWG servers.
"Another reason...SOE does not like...you" OOh, I had to laugh at this one!
Anyone watch the South Park "Make Love Not Warcraft" episode? There's a LOT of interesting subtile similarities to the storyline and SWG, ala' Jedi, including a suspicious similarity of the Blizzard exec looking strikingly similarity to John Smedley.
And for the record, I would *not* play ANYTHING associated with SOE regardless of the title or affiliation so they can chalk up their round of consumer-fraud as a lose-lose. It's a win-win for me!
NGE crap and all the other MMOS are now in the same bucket. There is no way you can compare "enjoyable" experiences of NGE with the experience of the true MMO SWG.
Of course SOE has All Source code of pre cu SWG. All "serious" software Companies have source control. The problem is that they don't know how or don't want to set it up.
If they set it up all NGE fans will enjoy their empty servers more empty while we shall start the real MMO experience again.
The bottom line is they are locked into this current course of action. They will never again (more than likely never, I'd be more suprised if they did roll pre-cu than if they never did at this point) host pre-cu servers. From a business standpoint, they have written off pre-CU and its lost subs as a business loss and they are proceeding on with their perceived better product. They are business people and they are stupid. The game will go down running NGE and that's all there is to it. Even if they bough pre-CU back, how many people have moved on, and really how many owuld come back? They know that they'd get 250,000 tops, if that, and since they believe that they can somehow magically get all of WoW's 7 million subs, the 250k subs is not an option. They're idiots, morons, simpletons, I mean 250k subs is better than none, but that's where they are headed.
It's hard to let go, but SWG is gone. Just accept it, hell I need to also, but it's gone. The only pre-CU you'll ever see is whatever the ducks can make. There's a 99% chance you wont see pre-CU from SOE or LA.
Originally posted by kanezfan The bottom line is they are locked into this current course of action. They will never again (more than likely never, I'd be more suprised if they did roll pre-cu than if they never did at this point) host pre-cu servers. From a business standpoint, they have written off pre-CU and its lost subs as a business loss and they are proceeding on with their perceived better product. They are business people and they are stupid. The game will go down running NGE and that's all there is to it. Even if they bough pre-CU back, how many people have moved on, and really how many owuld come back? They know that they'd get 250,000 tops, if that, and since they believe that they can somehow magically get all of WoW's 7 million subs, the 250k subs is not an option. They're idiots, morons, simpletons, I mean 250k subs is better than none, but that's where they are headed.It's hard to let go, but SWG is gone. Just accept it, hell I need to also, but it's gone. The only pre-CU you'll ever see is whatever the ducks can make. There's a 99% chance you wont see pre-CU from SOE or LA.
But that's not necessarily true. Other games have proven classic servers work.
Sure, they won't get us ALL back, but they would definately make mad bank doing it.
Shayde - SWG (dead) Proud member of the Cabal.
It sounds great, so great in fact, I pitty those who canceled - Some deluded SWG fanboi who pities me. I don't like it when you say things. - A Vanguard fan who does too. 09f911029d74e35bd84156c5635688c0
Originally posted by Shayde Originally posted by kanezfan The bottom line is they are locked into this current course of action. They will never again (more than likely never, I'd be more suprised if they did roll pre-cu than if they never did at this point) host pre-cu servers. From a business standpoint, they have written off pre-CU and its lost subs as a business loss and they are proceeding on with their perceived better product. They are business people and they are stupid. The game will go down running NGE and that's all there is to it. Even if they bough pre-CU back, how many people have moved on, and really how many owuld come back? They know that they'd get 250,000 tops, if that, and since they believe that they can somehow magically get all of WoW's 7 million subs, the 250k subs is not an option. They're idiots, morons, simpletons, I mean 250k subs is better than none, but that's where they are headed.It's hard to let go, but SWG is gone. Just accept it, hell I need to also, but it's gone. The only pre-CU you'll ever see is whatever the ducks can make. There's a 99% chance you wont see pre-CU from SOE or LA.
But that's not necessarily true. Other games have proven classic servers work.
Sure, they won't get us ALL back, but they would definately make mad bank doing it.
I agree, i mean say they get 250k x $15, that's $3,750,000 per month x 12 months is $45,000,000 per year. Why are they overlooking this? Because they 'believe' they can achieve WoW-like numbers, $105,000,000 per month (holy shit!) x 12 is $1,260,000,000 (holy shit!!!!) That's a lot of money! Man, until I did the math I din't realize WoW pulls in over $1.25 billion a year in subs, damn! Of course that's before expenses, but they're still making crazy money. But either way, SWG doesn't have 100+ servers to run, they don't have a huge number of staff to pay, so even with the dire number of subs to SWG, they're probably still not in the red, although barely not probably.
$45 million a year is more than probably 90% of companies, regardless of what industry, makes in gross yearly revenue. Sadly it is what they could be making with this MMO, but they think they can make more and we suffer for it.
Originally posted by kanezfan The bottom line is they are locked into this current course of action. They will never again (more than likely never, I'd be more suprised if they did roll pre-cu than if they never did at this point) host pre-cu servers. From a business standpoint, they have written off pre-CU and its lost subs as a business loss and they are proceeding on with their perceived better product. They are business people and they are stupid. The game will go down running NGE and that's all there is to it. Even if they bough pre-CU back, how many people have moved on, and really how many owuld come back? They know that they'd get 250,000 tops, if that, and since they believe that they can somehow magically get all of WoW's 7 million subs, the 250k subs is not an option. They're idiots, morons, simpletons, I mean 250k subs is better than none, but that's where they are headed.
It's hard to let go, but SWG is gone. Just accept it, hell I need to also, but it's gone. The only pre-CU you'll ever see is whatever the ducks can make. There's a 99% chance you wont see pre-CU from SOE or LA.
But that's not necessarily true. Other games have proven classic servers work.
Sure, they won't get us ALL back, but they would definately make mad bank doing it.
I agree, i mean say they get 250k x $15, that's $3,750,000 per month x 12 months is $45,000,000 per year. Why are they overlooking this? Because they 'believe' they can achieve WoW-like numbers, $105,000,000 per month (holy shit!) x 12 is $1,260,000,000 (holy shit!!!!) That's a lot of money! Man, until I did the math I din't realize WoW pulls in over $1.25 billion a year in subs, damn! Of course that's before expenses, but they're still making crazy money. But either way, SWG doesn't have 100+ servers to run, they don't have a huge number of staff to pay, so even with the dire number of subs to SWG, they're probably still not in the red, although barely not probably.
$45 million a year is more than probably 90% of companies, regardless of what industry, makes in gross yearly revenue. Sadly it is what they could be making with this MMO, but they think they can make more and we suffer for it.
As long as there are people who are spiteful of the NGE (such as me), no SW MMO will ever gain the subs it should. Word of mouth is a powerful ally... or enemy.
There is a way that can come close to making things right, which would in turn create a peaceful introduction for any new SW MMO product. But these people can't think of the future, only the next financial quarter.
Originally posted by kanezfan Originally posted by Shayde Originally posted by kanezfan The bottom line is they are locked into this current course of action. They will never again (more than likely never, I'd be more suprised if they did roll pre-cu than if they never did at this point) host pre-cu servers. From a business standpoint, they have written off pre-CU and its lost subs as a business loss and they are proceeding on with their perceived better product. They are business people and they are stupid. The game will go down running NGE and that's all there is to it. Even if they bough pre-CU back, how many people have moved on, and really how many owuld come back? They know that they'd get 250,000 tops, if that, and since they believe that they can somehow magically get all of WoW's 7 million subs, the 250k subs is not an option. They're idiots, morons, simpletons, I mean 250k subs is better than none, but that's where they are headed.It's hard to let go, but SWG is gone. Just accept it, hell I need to also, but it's gone. The only pre-CU you'll ever see is whatever the ducks can make. There's a 99% chance you wont see pre-CU from SOE or LA.
But that's not necessarily true. Other games have proven classic servers work.
Sure, they won't get us ALL back, but they would definately make mad bank doing it.
I agree, i mean say they get 250k x $15, that's $3,750,000 per month x 12 months is $45,000,000 per year. Why are they overlooking this? Because they 'believe' they can achieve WoW-like numbers, $105,000,000 per month (holy shit!) x 12 is $1,260,000,000 (holy shit!!!!) That's a lot of money! Man, until I did the math I din't realize WoW pulls in over $1.25 billion a year in subs, damn! Of course that's before expenses, but they're still making crazy money. But either way, SWG doesn't have 100+ servers to run, they don't have a huge number of staff to pay, so even with the dire number of subs to SWG, they're probably still not in the red, although barely not probably.
$45 million a year is more than probably 90% of companies, regardless of what industry, makes in gross yearly revenue. Sadly it is what they could be making with this MMO, but they think they can make more and we suffer for it.
That, and every time some idiot dev talks about classic servers, they always say they have to have a dev staff, a maintenence staff, yadda yadda yadda. Fix more bugs... convert expansions... add content (why start NOW?) ALL we are demanding is a freaking server or two and that they keep them plugged in at this point.
It'd take half the resources of MxO.. probably less, with easily 3 times MxO's subs.
AND if it turned out to be (gasp) PROFITABLE??? OH NOES!
Shayde - SWG (dead) Proud member of the Cabal.
It sounds great, so great in fact, I pitty those who canceled - Some deluded SWG fanboi who pities me. I don't like it when you say things. - A Vanguard fan who does too. 09f911029d74e35bd84156c5635688c0
anyone who has ever worked in IT will tell you this: back-up's stay backed up or at least code does only fools would bin so much code as the cost of keeping it on a HDD's is about $300 as a one off cost
Don't forget the fact that there are a good number of people that are very happy with SWG now the way it is, and these are the people that they are trying to develope the game for, not those who are disappointed. I don't like how SWG is now, but I know that if I don't like it then I'm not a part of the concern for SWG. Trust me they are making their money and will for years to come.
Face the fact, what you learned to love is no longer there and won't be because your opinion doesn't matter if you don't hold a subscription. Look towards other games, there are so many great potential games coming out, broaden your horizons a bit and you'll see.
Originally posted by kanezfan The bottom line is they are locked into this current course of action. They will never again (more than likely never, I'd be more suprised if they did roll pre-cu than if they never did at this point) host pre-cu servers. From a business standpoint, they have written off pre-CU and its lost subs as a business loss and they are proceeding on with their perceived better product. They are business people and they are stupid. The game will go down running NGE and that's all there is to it. Even if they bough pre-CU back, how many people have moved on, and really how many owuld come back? They know that they'd get 250,000 tops, if that, and since they believe that they can somehow magically get all of WoW's 7 million subs, the 250k subs is not an option. They're idiots, morons, simpletons, I mean 250k subs is better than none, but that's where they are headed.
It's hard to let go, but SWG is gone. Just accept it, hell I need to also, but it's gone. The only pre-CU you'll ever see is whatever the ducks can make. There's a 99% chance you wont see pre-CU from SOE or LA.
But that's not necessarily true. Other games have proven classic servers work.
Sure, they won't get us ALL back, but they would definately make mad bank doing it.
I agree, i mean say they get 250k x $15, that's $3,750,000 per month x 12 months is $45,000,000 per year. Why are they overlooking this? Because they 'believe' they can achieve WoW-like numbers, $105,000,000 per month (holy shit!) x 12 is $1,260,000,000 (holy shit!!!!) That's a lot of money! Man, until I did the math I din't realize WoW pulls in over $1.25 billion a year in subs, damn! Of course that's before expenses, but they're still making crazy money. But either way, SWG doesn't have 100+ servers to run, they don't have a huge number of staff to pay, so even with the dire number of subs to SWG, they're probably still not in the red, although barely not probably.
$45 million a year is more than probably 90% of companies, regardless of what industry, makes in gross yearly revenue. Sadly it is what they could be making with this MMO, but they think they can make more and we suffer for it.
Even so, wouldnt it make more sense to make the 45 mill a year while your chasing your fool's gold?
"The man who exchanges Liberty for Iconic classes is a fool deserving of neither." - Me and Ben Franklin
Originally posted by kanezfan Originally posted by Shayde Originally posted by kanezfan The bottom line is they are locked into this current course of action. They will never again (more than likely never, I'd be more suprised if they did roll pre-cu than if they never did at this point) host pre-cu servers. From a business standpoint, they have written off pre-CU and its lost subs as a business loss and they are proceeding on with their perceived better product. They are business people and they are stupid. The game will go down running NGE and that's all there is to it. Even if they bough pre-CU back, how many people have moved on, and really how many owuld come back? They know that they'd get 250,000 tops, if that, and since they believe that they can somehow magically get all of WoW's 7 million subs, the 250k subs is not an option. They're idiots, morons, simpletons, I mean 250k subs is better than none, but that's where they are headed.It's hard to let go, but SWG is gone. Just accept it, hell I need to also, but it's gone. The only pre-CU you'll ever see is whatever the ducks can make. There's a 99% chance you wont see pre-CU from SOE or LA.
But that's not necessarily true. Other games have proven classic servers work.
Sure, they won't get us ALL back, but they would definately make mad bank doing it.
I agree, i mean say they get 250k x $15, that's $3,750,000 per month x 12 months is $45,000,000 per year. Why are they overlooking this? Because they 'believe' they can achieve WoW-like numbers, $105,000,000 per month (holy shit!) x 12 is $1,260,000,000 (holy shit!!!!) That's a lot of money! Man, until I did the math I din't realize WoW pulls in over $1.25 billion a year in subs, damn! Of course that's before expenses, but they're still making crazy money. But either way, SWG doesn't have 100+ servers to run, they don't have a huge number of staff to pay, so even with the dire number of subs to SWG, they're probably still not in the red, although barely not probably.
$45 million a year is more than probably 90% of companies, regardless of what industry, makes in gross yearly revenue. Sadly it is what they could be making with this MMO, but they think they can make more and we suffer for it.
The know they will never reach WoW like subscription numbers. That's why they admitted the NGE was a major mistake.
They do think they will be able to add some things back to the NGE and get back most of the players who quit because of it. Every publish (and now even in the bugfixes) they add back pre-NGE things in the hopes that one of them will trigger the vets returning. Every time it fails to do so they wonder why.
When the 'complete' collection flops, they will totally give up. They'll either give in on classic servers, or just let the game wither and die. Either way, there will be no more expansions or content added outside of bug fixes until they close the servers.
Originally posted by Lightleaf Why do you guys keep thrashing the NGE? Sure, lots and lots of amazing and core features that made SWG what it -was- is gone, but, you have to look at the new features that make it into a new game that is quite enjoyable. I can understand your pain, but, whining is NOT going to do anything. Another reason would be that SOE does not like how you guys constantly trash their work and de-constructively criticize what you cannot create. A lot of you guys don't deserve a Pre-CU/NGE server.
First of all, many of us disagree about it being an enjoyable game. For me, I don't think anyone can honestly consider it Star Wars game anymore. Player Jedi (that are no stronger than normal characters) as a starting class during a time when Jedi are all but extinct? To me, that alone makes the game a mockery of the movies.
But to answer your question, people have a number of reasons. Some noble, some petty. I will give you the primary reason I still post about the game.
1. IMHO, SOE as a company, or at least the current SWG team, is a not a trustyworth MMO developer. What I mean by that is that they have a proven track record of not protecting in game acheivments. The NGE obviously, undid years worth of work by crafters, creature handlers, player jedi, etc. MMOs are based on effort=reward mechanism. That's one of the principle advantages over single player games, you can achieve something a world filled with other players that may or may not have achieved that. Whether its as simple as attaining the top level in a standard profession, or as difficult as obtaining a full set of the most epic loot in some other game. If a MMO company isn't going to protect this investment by players, the game isnt' worth playing. SOE didn't just change the game to something we didn't like, they make our accomplishment worthless in the attempt to gain more casual players.
Some might argue that SOE learned their lesson about this from the NGE and this won't happen again. I respectfully disagree with that point of view. You just need to look at the new faction rank system. They are throwing away faction ranks people had earned under the old system in order to replace with their new system.
People that didn't experience the NGE, need to be WARNED about SOE's behavior. If they hear about it and choose to assume the risk that SOE will undo their accomplishments with little or no warning, then good for them. Its at least then an informed decision. I consider this to be a noble reason for "bashing" the NGE, if you want to call it that.
I'd like to point out that the original didn't follow the movies. (I.E: Darth Vader and The Emperor are alive)
I've played it almost since the beginning and I loved it, I stopped playing before the CU, so I can't judge that, but I will say a lot of the improvements to the system are nice, and seeing as how they don't give a damn a lot of you whiny bastards left the game, I don't imagine they care what you think anymore either. (If they even did in the first place.)
Originally posted by Lightleaf Why do you guys keep thrashing the NGE? Sure, lots and lots of amazing and core features that made SWG what it -was- is gone, but, you have to look at the new features that make it into a new game that is quite enjoyable. I can understand your pain, but, whining is NOT going to do anything. Another reason would be that SOE does not like how you guys constantly trash their work and de-constructively criticize what you cannot create. A lot of you guys don't deserve a Pre-CU/NGE server.
First of all, many of us disagree about it being an enjoyable game. For me, I don't think anyone can honestly consider it Star Wars game anymore. Player Jedi (that are no stronger than normal characters) as a starting class during a time when Jedi are all but extinct? To me, that alone makes the game a mockery of the movies.
But to answer your question, people have a number of reasons. Some noble, some petty. I will give you the primary reason I still post about the game.
1. IMHO, SOE as a company, or at least the current SWG team, is a not a trustyworth MMO developer. What I mean by that is that they have a proven track record of not protecting in game acheivments. The NGE obviously, undid years worth of work by crafters, creature handlers, player jedi, etc. MMOs are based on effort=reward mechanism. That's one of the principle advantages over single player games, you can achieve something a world filled with other players that may or may not have achieved that. Whether its as simple as attaining the top level in a standard profession, or as difficult as obtaining a full set of the most epic loot in some other game. If a MMO company isn't going to protect this investment by players, the game isnt' worth playing. SOE didn't just change the game to something we didn't like, they make our accomplishment worthless in the attempt to gain more casual players.
Some might argue that SOE learned their lesson about this from the NGE and this won't happen again. I respectfully disagree with that point of view. You just need to look at the new faction rank system. They are throwing away faction ranks people had earned under the old system in order to replace with their new system.
People that didn't experience the NGE, need to be WARNED about SOE's behavior. If they hear about it and choose to assume the risk that SOE will undo their accomplishments with little or no warning, then good for them. Its at least then an informed decision. I consider this to be a noble reason for "bashing" the NGE, if you want to call it that.
I'd like to point out that the original didn't follow the movies. (I.E: Darth Vader and The Emperor are alive)
I've played it almost since the beginning and I loved it, I stopped playing before the CU, so I can't judge that, but I will say a lot of the improvements to the system are nice, and seeing as how they don't give a damn a lot of you whiny bastards left the game, I don't imagine they care what you think anymore either. (If they even did in the first place.)
/reported for flamebaiting
*hands aunti an uber stun baton to deal with Lightleaf*
I think that they will never do something like a switchback to Pre-NGE, cuz Sony will explain this as bowing down to the community, and this is something they will never do, exactly the same thing thats costing them their necks atm. Also i quite doubt that this will do any good at all, since their reputation has been damaged beyond repair. Many players feel betrayed and refrain from going anywhere near a Sony game. From my POV, very understandable.
Still I think "if" they'd do that, they will attract a considerable amount of attention, including mine.
Originally posted by kanezfan The bottom line is they are locked into this current course of action. They will never again (more than likely never, I'd be more suprised if they did roll pre-cu than if they never did at this point) host pre-cu servers. From a business standpoint, they have written off pre-CU and its lost subs as a business loss and they are proceeding on with their perceived better product. They are business people and they are stupid. The game will go down running NGE and that's all there is to it. Even if they bough pre-CU back, how many people have moved on, and really how many owuld come back? They know that they'd get 250,000 tops, if that, and since they believe that they can somehow magically get all of WoW's 7 million subs, the 250k subs is not an option. They're idiots, morons, simpletons, I mean 250k subs is better than none, but that's where they are headed. It's hard to let go, but SWG is gone. Just accept it, hell I need to also, but it's gone. The only pre-CU you'll ever see is whatever the ducks can make. There's a 99% chance you wont see pre-CU from SOE or LA.
But that's not necessarily true. Other games have proven classic servers work.
Sure, they won't get us ALL back, but they would definately make mad bank doing it.
/agree
I don't understand the reasoning behind refusing to open classic servers. It's like cutting off your nose to spite your face. And I believe, as is being discussed in a separate thread, that re-introducing Pre-CU features into the NGE will not restore the feel of the original game. I also believe that continuing to try turn the NGE into a pseudo Pre-CU will become increasingly problematic. Too many layers of code.
I don't understand the reasoning behind refusing to open classic servers. It's like cutting off your nose to spite your face.
Really, it can only be because they don't believe they'll make money doing it, for multiple reasons.
First, they don't have anybody who knows how to code Classic, so they'd have to hire them or train them, which costs money.
Second, it would require ongoing maintenance of two separate code bases, which costs money.
Third, it would admit just how flawed the original NGE decision was, and cost somebody their job -- primarily the people who actually make the decision to go or no-go on Classic servers.
Fourth, they didn't have subscription numbers that gave them acceptable ROI (Return On Investment) with the CU game, so they don't believe they will if they open Classic, either.
Personally, I think ever since NGE they've been in low-maintenance mode ... get whatever they can get done with the people they have, keep whatever subscribers they can and milk them for the last possible dimes, but spend as little as humanly possible beyond that. That seems to be reflected in every aspect of the game. It's either going to grow to "acceptable" subscriber numbers by tweaking and tuning the NGE with pseudo-CU features, or they're going to sunset the whole thing, but spending a lot of new money is probably out of the question.
I don't understand the reasoning behind refusing to open classic servers. It's like cutting off your nose to spite your face.
Really, it can only be because they don't believe they'll make money doing it, for multiple reasons.
First, they don't have anybody who knows how to code Classic, so they'd have to hire them or train them, which costs money.
Second, it would require ongoing maintenance of two separate code bases, which costs money.
Third, it would admit just how flawed the original NGE decision was, and cost somebody their job -- primarily the people who actually make the decision to go or no-go on Classic servers.
Fourth, they didn't have subscription numbers that gave them acceptable ROI (Return On Investment) with the CU game, so they don't believe they will if they open Classic, either.
I agree, if you are speaking only in the context of SWG. I believe their decisions have far reaching consequences.
Comments
Lossing 65% of your paying customers in less then 30 days *is* the issue.
Nothing is "new" in SWG other then the blind sheepish attitudes of so many of it's player base.
throwing rocks at girls used to be *fun*. Playing in mud puddles with "hot wheels" used to be *fun*. My father used to think slaming speed-balls was *fun*. Those three things are likely to bring more enjoyment from a consumer base then would be obtained from paying $15 a month for access to current SWG servers.
"Another reason...SOE does not like...you" OOh, I had to laugh at this one!
Anyone watch the South Park "Make Love Not Warcraft" episode? There's a LOT of interesting subtile similarities to the storyline and SWG, ala' Jedi, including a suspicious similarity of the Blizzard exec looking strikingly similarity to John Smedley.
And for the record, I would *not* play ANYTHING associated with SOE regardless of the title or affiliation so they can chalk up their round of consumer-fraud as a lose-lose. It's a win-win for me!
NGE crap and all the other MMOS are now in the same bucket. There is no way you can compare "enjoyable" experiences of NGE with the experience of the true MMO SWG.
Of course SOE has All Source code of pre cu SWG. All "serious" software Companies have source control. The problem is that they don't know how or don't want to set it up.
If they set it up all NGE fans will enjoy their empty servers more empty while we shall start the real MMO experience again.
The bottom line is they are locked into this current course of action. They will never again (more than likely never, I'd be more suprised if they did roll pre-cu than if they never did at this point) host pre-cu servers. From a business standpoint, they have written off pre-CU and its lost subs as a business loss and they are proceeding on with their perceived better product. They are business people and they are stupid. The game will go down running NGE and that's all there is to it. Even if they bough pre-CU back, how many people have moved on, and really how many owuld come back? They know that they'd get 250,000 tops, if that, and since they believe that they can somehow magically get all of WoW's 7 million subs, the 250k subs is not an option. They're idiots, morons, simpletons, I mean 250k subs is better than none, but that's where they are headed.
It's hard to let go, but SWG is gone. Just accept it, hell I need to also, but it's gone. The only pre-CU you'll ever see is whatever the ducks can make. There's a 99% chance you wont see pre-CU from SOE or LA.
Sure, they won't get us ALL back, but they would definately make mad bank doing it.
Shayde - SWG (dead)
Proud member of the Cabal.
It sounds great, so great in fact, I pitty those who canceled
I don't like it when you say things. - A Vanguard fan who does too.
09f911029d74e35bd84156c5635688c0
Sure, they won't get us ALL back, but they would definately make mad bank doing it.
I agree, i mean say they get 250k x $15, that's $3,750,000 per month x 12 months is $45,000,000 per year. Why are they overlooking this? Because they 'believe' they can achieve WoW-like numbers, $105,000,000 per month (holy shit!) x 12 is $1,260,000,000 (holy shit!!!!) That's a lot of money! Man, until I did the math I din't realize WoW pulls in over $1.25 billion a year in subs, damn! Of course that's before expenses, but they're still making crazy money. But either way, SWG doesn't have 100+ servers to run, they don't have a huge number of staff to pay, so even with the dire number of subs to SWG, they're probably still not in the red, although barely not probably.
$45 million a year is more than probably 90% of companies, regardless of what industry, makes in gross yearly revenue. Sadly it is what they could be making with this MMO, but they think they can make more and we suffer for it.
Sure, they won't get us ALL back, but they would definately make mad bank doing it.
I agree, i mean say they get 250k x $15, that's $3,750,000 per month x 12 months is $45,000,000 per year. Why are they overlooking this? Because they 'believe' they can achieve WoW-like numbers, $105,000,000 per month (holy shit!) x 12 is $1,260,000,000 (holy shit!!!!) That's a lot of money! Man, until I did the math I din't realize WoW pulls in over $1.25 billion a year in subs, damn! Of course that's before expenses, but they're still making crazy money. But either way, SWG doesn't have 100+ servers to run, they don't have a huge number of staff to pay, so even with the dire number of subs to SWG, they're probably still not in the red, although barely not probably.
$45 million a year is more than probably 90% of companies, regardless of what industry, makes in gross yearly revenue. Sadly it is what they could be making with this MMO, but they think they can make more and we suffer for it.
As long as there are people who are spiteful of the NGE (such as me), no SW MMO will ever gain the subs it should. Word of mouth is a powerful ally... or enemy.
There is a way that can come close to making things right, which would in turn create a peaceful introduction for any new SW MMO product. But these people can't think of the future, only the next financial quarter.
Sure, they won't get us ALL back, but they would definately make mad bank doing it.
I agree, i mean say they get 250k x $15, that's $3,750,000 per month x 12 months is $45,000,000 per year. Why are they overlooking this? Because they 'believe' they can achieve WoW-like numbers, $105,000,000 per month (holy shit!) x 12 is $1,260,000,000 (holy shit!!!!) That's a lot of money! Man, until I did the math I din't realize WoW pulls in over $1.25 billion a year in subs, damn! Of course that's before expenses, but they're still making crazy money. But either way, SWG doesn't have 100+ servers to run, they don't have a huge number of staff to pay, so even with the dire number of subs to SWG, they're probably still not in the red, although barely not probably.
$45 million a year is more than probably 90% of companies, regardless of what industry, makes in gross yearly revenue. Sadly it is what they could be making with this MMO, but they think they can make more and we suffer for it.
That, and every time some idiot dev talks about classic servers, they always say they have to have a dev staff, a maintenence staff, yadda yadda yadda. Fix more bugs... convert expansions... add content (why start NOW?) ALL we are demanding is a freaking server or two and that they keep them plugged in at this point.
It'd take half the resources of MxO.. probably less, with easily 3 times MxO's subs.
AND if it turned out to be (gasp) PROFITABLE??? OH NOES!
Shayde - SWG (dead)
Proud member of the Cabal.
It sounds great, so great in fact, I pitty those who canceled
I don't like it when you say things. - A Vanguard fan who does too.
09f911029d74e35bd84156c5635688c0
you might be right but i doubt it
anyone who has ever worked in IT will tell you this: back-up's stay backed up or at least code does only fools would bin so much code as the cost of keeping it on a HDD's is about $300 as a one off cost
but then again we are talking about SOE...
Tin Foil hats dont work.. its all a conspiracy
Don't forget the fact that there are a good number of people that are very happy with SWG now the way it is, and these are the people that they are trying to develope the game for, not those who are disappointed. I don't like how SWG is now, but I know that if I don't like it then I'm not a part of the concern for SWG. Trust me they are making their money and will for years to come.
Face the fact, what you learned to love is no longer there and won't be because your opinion doesn't matter if you don't hold a subscription. Look towards other games, there are so many great potential games coming out, broaden your horizons a bit and you'll see.
Sure, they won't get us ALL back, but they would definately make mad bank doing it.
I agree, i mean say they get 250k x $15, that's $3,750,000 per month x 12 months is $45,000,000 per year. Why are they overlooking this? Because they 'believe' they can achieve WoW-like numbers, $105,000,000 per month (holy shit!) x 12 is $1,260,000,000 (holy shit!!!!) That's a lot of money! Man, until I did the math I din't realize WoW pulls in over $1.25 billion a year in subs, damn! Of course that's before expenses, but they're still making crazy money. But either way, SWG doesn't have 100+ servers to run, they don't have a huge number of staff to pay, so even with the dire number of subs to SWG, they're probably still not in the red, although barely not probably.
$45 million a year is more than probably 90% of companies, regardless of what industry, makes in gross yearly revenue. Sadly it is what they could be making with this MMO, but they think they can make more and we suffer for it.
Even so, wouldnt it make more sense to make the 45 mill a year while your chasing your fool's gold?
"The man who exchanges Liberty for Iconic classes is a fool deserving of neither." - Me and Ben Franklin
Sure, they won't get us ALL back, but they would definately make mad bank doing it.
I agree, i mean say they get 250k x $15, that's $3,750,000 per month x 12 months is $45,000,000 per year. Why are they overlooking this? Because they 'believe' they can achieve WoW-like numbers, $105,000,000 per month (holy shit!) x 12 is $1,260,000,000 (holy shit!!!!) That's a lot of money! Man, until I did the math I din't realize WoW pulls in over $1.25 billion a year in subs, damn! Of course that's before expenses, but they're still making crazy money. But either way, SWG doesn't have 100+ servers to run, they don't have a huge number of staff to pay, so even with the dire number of subs to SWG, they're probably still not in the red, although barely not probably.
$45 million a year is more than probably 90% of companies, regardless of what industry, makes in gross yearly revenue. Sadly it is what they could be making with this MMO, but they think they can make more and we suffer for it.
The know they will never reach WoW like subscription numbers. That's why they admitted the NGE was a major mistake.
They do think they will be able to add some things back to the NGE and get back most of the players who quit because of it. Every publish (and now even in the bugfixes) they add back pre-NGE things in the hopes that one of them will trigger the vets returning. Every time it fails to do so they wonder why.
When the 'complete' collection flops, they will totally give up. They'll either give in on classic servers, or just let the game wither and die. Either way, there will be no more expansions or content added outside of bug fixes until they close the servers.
First of all, many of us disagree about it being an enjoyable game. For me, I don't think anyone can honestly consider it Star Wars game anymore. Player Jedi (that are no stronger than normal characters) as a starting class during a time when Jedi are all but extinct? To me, that alone makes the game a mockery of the movies.
But to answer your question, people have a number of reasons. Some noble, some petty. I will give you the primary reason I still post about the game.
1. IMHO, SOE as a company, or at least the current SWG team, is a not a trustyworth MMO developer. What I mean by that is that they have a proven track record of not protecting in game acheivments. The NGE obviously, undid years worth of work by crafters, creature handlers, player jedi, etc. MMOs are based on effort=reward mechanism. That's one of the principle advantages over single player games, you can achieve something a world filled with other players that may or may not have achieved that. Whether its as simple as attaining the top level in a standard profession, or as difficult as obtaining a full set of the most epic loot in some other game. If a MMO company isn't going to protect this investment by players, the game isnt' worth playing. SOE didn't just change the game to something we didn't like, they make our accomplishment worthless in the attempt to gain more casual players.
Some might argue that SOE learned their lesson about this from the NGE and this won't happen again. I respectfully disagree with that point of view. You just need to look at the new faction rank system. They are throwing away faction ranks people had earned under the old system in order to replace with their new system.
People that didn't experience the NGE, need to be WARNED about SOE's behavior. If they hear about it and choose to assume the risk that SOE will undo their accomplishments with little or no warning, then good for them. Its at least then an informed decision. I consider this to be a noble reason for "bashing" the NGE, if you want to call it that.
I'd like to point out that the original didn't follow the movies. (I.E: Darth Vader and The Emperor are alive)
I've played it almost since the beginning and I loved it, I stopped playing before the CU, so I can't judge that, but I will say a lot of the improvements to the system are nice, and seeing as how they don't give a damn a lot of you whiny bastards left the game, I don't imagine they care what you think anymore either. (If they even did in the first place.)
/reported for flamebaiting
First of all, many of us disagree about it being an enjoyable game. For me, I don't think anyone can honestly consider it Star Wars game anymore. Player Jedi (that are no stronger than normal characters) as a starting class during a time when Jedi are all but extinct? To me, that alone makes the game a mockery of the movies.
But to answer your question, people have a number of reasons. Some noble, some petty. I will give you the primary reason I still post about the game.
1. IMHO, SOE as a company, or at least the current SWG team, is a not a trustyworth MMO developer. What I mean by that is that they have a proven track record of not protecting in game acheivments. The NGE obviously, undid years worth of work by crafters, creature handlers, player jedi, etc. MMOs are based on effort=reward mechanism. That's one of the principle advantages over single player games, you can achieve something a world filled with other players that may or may not have achieved that. Whether its as simple as attaining the top level in a standard profession, or as difficult as obtaining a full set of the most epic loot in some other game. If a MMO company isn't going to protect this investment by players, the game isnt' worth playing. SOE didn't just change the game to something we didn't like, they make our accomplishment worthless in the attempt to gain more casual players.
Some might argue that SOE learned their lesson about this from the NGE and this won't happen again. I respectfully disagree with that point of view. You just need to look at the new faction rank system. They are throwing away faction ranks people had earned under the old system in order to replace with their new system.
People that didn't experience the NGE, need to be WARNED about SOE's behavior. If they hear about it and choose to assume the risk that SOE will undo their accomplishments with little or no warning, then good for them. Its at least then an informed decision. I consider this to be a noble reason for "bashing" the NGE, if you want to call it that.
I'd like to point out that the original didn't follow the movies. (I.E: Darth Vader and The Emperor are alive)
I've played it almost since the beginning and I loved it, I stopped playing before the CU, so I can't judge that, but I will say a lot of the improvements to the system are nice, and seeing as how they don't give a damn a lot of you whiny bastards left the game, I don't imagine they care what you think anymore either. (If they even did in the first place.)
/reported for flamebaiting
*hands aunti an uber stun baton to deal with Lightleaf*
Still I think "if" they'd do that, they will attract a considerable amount of attention, including mine.
Sure, they won't get us ALL back, but they would definately make mad bank doing it.
/agree
I don't understand the reasoning behind refusing to open classic servers. It's like cutting off your nose to spite your face. And I believe, as is being discussed in a separate thread, that re-introducing Pre-CU features into the NGE will not restore the feel of the original game. I also believe that continuing to try turn the NGE into a pseudo Pre-CU will become increasingly problematic. Too many layers of code.
Aunti
/agree
I don't understand the reasoning behind refusing to open classic servers. It's like cutting off your nose to spite your face.
Really, it can only be because they don't believe they'll make money doing it, for multiple reasons.
First, they don't have anybody who knows how to code Classic, so they'd have to hire them or train them, which costs money.
Second, it would require ongoing maintenance of two separate code bases, which costs money.
Third, it would admit just how flawed the original NGE decision was, and cost somebody their job -- primarily the people who actually make the decision to go or no-go on Classic servers.
Fourth, they didn't have subscription numbers that gave them acceptable ROI (Return On Investment) with the CU game, so they don't believe they will if they open Classic, either.
Personally, I think ever since NGE they've been in low-maintenance mode ... get whatever they can get done with the people they have, keep whatever subscribers they can and milk them for the last possible dimes, but spend as little as humanly possible beyond that. That seems to be reflected in every aspect of the game. It's either going to grow to "acceptable" subscriber numbers by tweaking and tuning the NGE with pseudo-CU features, or they're going to sunset the whole thing, but spending a lot of new money is probably out of the question.
/agree
I don't understand the reasoning behind refusing to open classic servers. It's like cutting off your nose to spite your face.
Really, it can only be because they don't believe they'll make money doing it, for multiple reasons.
First, they don't have anybody who knows how to code Classic, so they'd have to hire them or train them, which costs money.
Second, it would require ongoing maintenance of two separate code bases, which costs money.
Third, it would admit just how flawed the original NGE decision was, and cost somebody their job -- primarily the people who actually make the decision to go or no-go on Classic servers.
Fourth, they didn't have subscription numbers that gave them acceptable ROI (Return On Investment) with the CU game, so they don't believe they will if they open Classic, either.
I agree, if you are speaking only in the context of SWG. I believe their decisions have far reaching consequences.
Aunti