If taken into logical consideration everything that a person speaks throughout a conversation then a general opinion can be create through a process of putting the pieces of the puzzle together. Even if the person did not directly say something but the thought was inside of the person's mind then it doesn't matter if the words were spoken or not.
Originally posted by Stumpy26 How many hours of mining, ratting, and missioning go on in EVE compared to the actual PVP?
Ahmen and signed That's really the problem and blessing of a sandbox ffa pvp game. A lot of people talk about wanting to play a "sandbox" game that is filled with non-stop action, but if that's the case it wouldn't be a "sandbox" game. A sandbox game is an open ended game world, ffa pvp is just one part of that world. If you take away the mining, ratting, missioning and producing in EvE and just have the pvp aspect of it left, the game would turn into a massive space shooter that's fun for a few days, then become absolutely boring to play.
I don't think anyone is truly trying to be malicious, I think what most people are saying is that you have some really good ideas, the problem doesn't have anything to do with them, the problem will always lie with people. UO in its heyday, along with Shadowbane and Lineage2 had some nasty gankers, but it wasn't any kind of setup that kept most people protected. It was other people. In every one of those games you'd have a single ganker or a group of three or four and they'd run through a low level area killing lowbies, but almost every time this happened a bigger group would pop up and kill them, and usually wait around to make sure they didn't return. I think ffa works about as well as it ever will, its just human nature for some people to be a jerk, and the really stubborn gankers would take all the penalties in stride, they don't care that they suffer, they just wanna spoil the game for other people.
Originally posted by jackilojohn "sanI have read alot of threads debating the hardcore pvp vs the pve/pvp games that are the majority of the market right now. I want to explain one side of the story a bit more clearly to anyone that wants to know.
I believe we picked the wrong words to describe the type of "hardcore" pvp people like me are looking for. None of us want a constant gankfest. What we should have said is we want a pvp setting that allows for freedom. If we just wanted to run around killing people lower level than us we would do it in WoW, EQ2, or any other game really. Some people might make the arguement that we don't play those games because we can't take players items but why would someone want to take items from someone lower level?? It wouldn't make sense because they would be useless to a capped level player. Anyway, this is what we want to help explain it.
There are some basic ideas that need to be in place in a mmorpg like to fit the ideas of a ffa pvper. You need crafting to play a large role in the game. Crafting must be the primary way to gain items inside the world. Crafting must be detailed also so that items can vary greatly. That way no one has the same stuff. The people who make them should be able to even design the items in some way to fit their style. With the amount of money WoW generates it could code so much more detail into the game.
Secondly, you must have no instancing to make the entire setup work correctly. It would help if the entire world was seemless but it can be possible without it being seemless. Instancing takes away from the idea of a sandbox game completely.
Third there doesn't need to be a huge grind. Actually, the best set up wouldn't have any levels at all. The best way would to be to use skills. Example: If you wanted to learn how to control fire as a mage this would be a skill. It wouldn't take very long to level this skill completely to cap. I will say a couple of weeks. This skill would make you worth something in a pvp situation within a couple of weeks. Although, you will still be able to learn more skills. You could also add a sword master skill into the mix, or a bard skill or whatever you wanted. The point of this is to make it to where you can come into the game play a couple of weeks and be decent VS other player but still not quite as good as they are. You can cap out one good handie skill and be decent but not as good as you will be after you master your other 5 skills. Of course there would be spells/specials inside of each skill.
Fourth, you seriously need player housing. It needs to be well done so that housing doesn't get really crowded inside the game. You want it to appear as if the houses were put there by the developers. This just helps get you immersed into the game. Inside your house you should be able to get kickass stuff like furniture, art, rare artifacts to put inside of your house. You should be able to design it kind of like a the sims house generator. This just adds for more things to do inside the game. It also gives you a safe place to go and craft so that you don't have to worry about anything. You can store all your loot in there and it feels so much more real than putting it in a NPC bank.
5th, You must above all else have FFA PVP. Anyone who doesn't know what this means it means that anyone can be attact by anyone else at any time. You do not need waring factions or waring races placed in the game because trust me there will be war between groups created by the players. If you did put waring races or factions in the game it would undermind the idea of FFA Open pvp sandbox game style. There must be rules in place though to keep this game from becoming an unbearable gank fest all the time. First of all with a ffa pvp game there will be player item looting. Some people are very against this because they think of the items in wow when it's extremely hard to get good items but take UO for instance there was good items but it wasn't hard to get. So, losing your ideas sucked but it wasn't the end of the world. Another, way to help this is to make it where each player can only caring so much stuff that way when someone kills you they cannot take everything you have because they couldn't care it. The only way to do it is if they left everything they had on and took everything you had.
Now to cut back on the constant ganking in games like this there must be some laws put in place. Here is how it would work. You would actually have a jail and if "player x" killed a certain number of lower level players depending over course how much higher level "player x" was after he killed a certain number of lowbees his charactor gets put in jail for a certain amount of time. If he logs out to wait out his prison sentance then when he logs back in it will still be there. The time would have to be paid off inside the game. Also, there should be levels to this so that people don't abuse it by knowing exactly when they are going over their limit. If someone kills just a couple of people he should get penalties like he can't go inside of any city gates without the guard killing him. And these guards are unstoppable they will kill anyone with one hit no matter what. Also, you could make it impossible for a criminal to buy items from vendors there are all kinds of ways to punish gankers. AND YES GANKERS SHOULD BE PUNISHED BECAUSE NO ONE LIKES THEM AND THEY RUIN THE GAME.
Now, if someone attacks you then you have every right to kill that person without punishment. Another, thing that I thought would be nice is if there was a bounty hunter system. If someone was a criminal then they can be saw on the criminal list and be hunted down and killed without the bounty hunter getting any punishment for it.
If there are two guilds that decide to go to war with each other then those players can openly attack each other all they want to without being punished. That is how war goes.
Another thing I have always wanted to see in a sandbox type game(we call it a sandbox type game because you can make anything you want to out of it" I wish you could bury items in treasure chest. This of course would have to only last for awhile because it would cause server lag. This is just a small little something I threw in.
Now, for the reason we would like to have a game like this.
With this type of game it's completely open ended. The war isn't staged and the pvp can actually mean something to the players that are doing it. Your guild can take over ground or lose ground. Your guild can own a mine just because they have the power to keep it for their crafters that need to mine it. With this type of game there will end up being some politics come into play. Guilds and city creators will start making people to fit king and knight type rolls all on there own. In a game like this anything goes and that is what is so great about it. You can think up all kinds of things to do on your own with your guild or just a group of friends. Also, having the thought that someone might kill you at anytime and take your stuff is just a much more realistic and intense game play style. I have played many many mmorpg's and there isn't one like this on the market or I'd be playing it right now. I have played wow, eq2, and all the other everquest clones they all become boring to me within a month. Everything is pointless in these types of games but people keep playing them even if they don't think they are that much fun. They keep playing them to get new loot and better gear. I just don't get it. Here is the sad truth as long as millions of people keep playing those types of games. I'll never get the type of game I want and if I do get it it won't be of the same quality as WoW because it will end up being a small team of devs trying to make it. I hope this has helped clear any questions up about the ffa pvp idea. I don't want someone flaming me or anything but I would appreciate any questions that I might be able to answer.
You almost described exactly what UO originally was...before it got destroyed and twisted...
Originally posted by jackilojohn If taken into logical consideration everything that a person speaks throughout a conversation then a general opinion can be create through a process of putting the pieces of the puzzle together. Even if the person did not directly say something but the thought was inside of the person's mind then it doesn't matter if the words were spoken or not.
Originally posted by Mithras I don't think anyone is truly trying to be malicious, I think what most people are saying is that you have some really good ideas, the problem doesn't have anything to do with them, the problem will always lie with people.
Yes, this is really what I was trying to say. Perhaps I didn't say it well. Posting at work will do that to you.
Of course, since the OP can apparently read my mind, he should be able to tell what I mean without me typing it well.
Comments
That's really the problem and blessing of a sandbox ffa pvp game. A lot of people talk about wanting to play a "sandbox" game that is filled with non-stop action, but if that's the case it wouldn't be a "sandbox" game. A sandbox game is an open ended game world, ffa pvp is just one part of that world. If you take away the mining, ratting, missioning and producing in EvE and just have the pvp aspect of it left, the game would turn into a massive space shooter that's fun for a few days, then become absolutely boring to play.
I don't think anyone is truly trying to be malicious, I think what most people are saying is that you have some really good ideas, the problem doesn't have anything to do with them, the problem will always lie with people.
UO in its heyday, along with Shadowbane and Lineage2 had some nasty gankers, but it wasn't any kind of setup that kept most people protected. It was other people.
In every one of those games you'd have a single ganker or a group of three or four and they'd run through a low level area killing lowbies, but almost every time this happened a bigger group would pop up and kill them, and usually wait around to make sure they didn't return.
I think ffa works about as well as it ever will, its just human nature for some people to be a jerk, and the really stubborn gankers would take all the penalties in stride, they don't care that they suffer, they just wanna spoil the game for other people.
You almost described exactly what UO originally was...before it got destroyed and twisted...
Congratulations OP, you pretty much described how Eve works.
Skill based.
Crafting.
No instances.
Housing (Your hangar)
FFA PVP (with consequences for attacking ppl in "civilized" space)
As far as ganking, yeah there's ganking. It's really unavoidable if you want to give the game maximum freedom.
Of course it sucks to get ganked, but I rather be ganked than lose the freedom of FFA PVP.
Anyway, if you're smart you can avoid being ganked, but most players are lazy, they rather whine than take steps to avoid being ganked.
And yes, UO was like that too.
Pre-trammel UO was alot like Eve, it was PVP MMORPG done right before they turned it into gay carebear crap to make the almighty buck.
C
Yes, this is really what I was trying to say. Perhaps I didn't say it well. Posting at work will do that to you.
Of course, since the OP can apparently read my mind, he should be able to tell what I mean without me typing it well.
C