"Since this is the Vanguard forum, would you mind explaining in some detail about the combat in Conan? I have to get back to work, thanks in advance for your reply."
Since you asked nicely
Age of conan's combat is not twich based. Some people might believe so, but it's not actually. It's semi realtime, as I understood. Twich based combat has no roll for hitting, here there are complex rules in the background. First a touch has to be made, so then a dodge or block(defence) roll can ba made. The touch is totally realtime, the dodge/block is automated and skill/stat based. This is as concrete as it gets. There are no rounds, different weapons have different speeds and ranges, and there is directional hitting. 6 zones upper/lower left and right, head, torso. Making one hit after the other differs in time, depending on the location. So you have to pay attention here, if you swing from left to right once, and you want the next swing to be the same, then it takes more time, then if you were to swing one on the left side, then one on the right side. It's realistic that way. So this has a direct effect on dps.
This is a meele combat quite difficult to master I presume, though I have yet to play it, one thing is clear, this is next gen melee combat.
The spells : every spell caster has spell components. You don't launch spells in succession, you compile your spell from different components so to speak. For you to more easily grasp it, it is like the bard song in V:SoH. Only it's done in real time everytime you start casting. Of course magic also corrupts the soul (we're still guessing about what that means, all we know for certain is you might get seriously injured). So if you want to pump too much of your bad voodoo magic onto the enemy, then it will backfire...
Collision detection : neat stuff, here is where melee tactics really comes into play. PCs will collide with eachother (except in heavily crowded cities) so you can box your enemy in, stand in the doorway, push, melee cover for archers ... lots of possibilities here.
Mounted combat. One quick example : you ride a horse, and hold your attack stance ready.. the faster your horse is riding on the moment of impact, the more damage it does on a successful hit.
Formation combat .. no need to explain this : the droup gets in formation, and that has certain advantages, combine that with collision detection and you have THE next gen combat!
Originally posted by random11 "Since this is the Vanguard forum, would you mind explaining in some detail about the combat in Conan? I have to get back to work, thanks in advance for your reply."
Since you asked nicely
Age of conan's combat is not twich based. Some people might believe so, but it's not actually. It's semi realtime, as I understood. Twich based combat has no roll for hitting, here there are complex rules in the background. First a touch has to be made, so then a dodge or block(defence) roll can ba made. The touch is totally realtime, the dodge/block is automated and skill/stat based. This is as concrete as it gets. There are no rounds, different weapons have different speeds and ranges, and there is directional hitting. 6 zones upper/lower left and right, head, torso. Making one hit after the other differs in time, depending on the location. So you have to pay attention here, if you swing from left to right once, and you want the next swing to be the same, then it takes more time, then if you were to swing one on the left side, then one on the right side. It's realistic that way. So this has a direct effect on dps.
This is a meele combat quite difficult to master I presume, though I have yet to play it, one thing is clear, this is next gen melee combat.
The spells : every spell caster has spell components. You don't launch spells in succession, you compile your spell from different components so to speak. For you to more easily grasp it, it is like the bard song in V:SoH. Only it's done in real time everytime you start casting. Of course magic also corrupts the soul (we're still guessing about what that means, all we know for certain is you might get seriously injured). So if you want to pump too much of your bad voodoo magic onto the enemy, then it will backfire...
Collision detection : neat stuff, here is where melee tactics really comes into play. PCs will collide with eachother (except in heavily crowded cities) so you can box your enemy in, stand in the doorway, push, melee cover for archers ... lots of possibilities here.
Mounted combat. One quick example : you ride a horse, and hold your attack stance ready.. the faster your horse is riding on the moment of impact, the more damage it does on a successful hit.
Formation combat .. no need to explain this : the droup gets in formation, and that has certain advantages, combine that with collision detection and you have THE next gen combat!
Mate. Pulling back a bow and letting go of the arrow sooner rather than later imo is not innovative combat. The combat unfortunately is like most other mmorpgs and seems very similar to EQ2 with the chains aspect. However the amount of spells/feats that each class has its disposal is plenty.
Originally posted by random11 "Since this is the Vanguard forum, would you mind explaining in some detail about the combat in Conan? I have to get back to work, thanks in advance for your reply."
Since you asked nicely
Age of conan's combat is not twich based. Some people might believe so, but it's not actually. It's semi realtime, as I understood. Twich based combat has no roll for hitting, here there are complex rules in the background. First a touch has to be made, so then a dodge or block(defence) roll can ba made. The touch is totally realtime, the dodge/block is automated and skill/stat based. This is as concrete as it gets. There are no rounds, different weapons have different speeds and ranges, and there is directional hitting. 6 zones upper/lower left and right, head, torso. Making one hit after the other differs in time, depending on the location. So you have to pay attention here, if you swing from left to right once, and you want the next swing to be the same, then it takes more time, then if you were to swing one on the left side, then one on the right side. It's realistic that way. So this has a direct effect on dps.
This is a meele combat quite difficult to master I presume, though I have yet to play it, one thing is clear, this is next gen melee combat.
The spells : every spell caster has spell components. You don't launch spells in succession, you compile your spell from different components so to speak. For you to more easily grasp it, it is like the bard song in V:SoH. Only it's done in real time everytime you start casting. Of course magic also corrupts the soul (we're still guessing about what that means, all we know for certain is you might get seriously injured). So if you want to pump too much of your bad voodoo magic onto the enemy, then it will backfire...
Collision detection : neat stuff, here is where melee tactics really comes into play. PCs will collide with eachother (except in heavily crowded cities) so you can box your enemy in, stand in the doorway, push, melee cover for archers ... lots of possibilities here.
Mounted combat. One quick example : you ride a horse, and hold your attack stance ready.. the faster your horse is riding on the moment of impact, the more damage it does on a successful hit.
Formation combat .. no need to explain this : the droup gets in formation, and that has certain advantages, combine that with collision detection and you have THE next gen combat!
Very kewl! I guess I'll be playing Age of Conan too. PVP sounds like it will be quite the broohaha.
Originally posted by clinteast Mate. Pulling back a bow and letting go of the arrow sooner rather than later imo is not innovative combat. The combat unfortunately is like most other mmorpgs and seems very similar to EQ2 with the chains aspect. However the amount of spells/feats that each class has its disposal is plenty.
Totally entitled to your opinion, and I respect it. However, in my opinion it is innovative, and there is so much more to Vanguard combat that is not only innovative, but just freaking rad. I urge you to look into it. The combat in Vanguard, while similar in many aspects to previous MMORPG's, has more innovation than any game in current release. I would expect nothing less from the makers of the best MMORPG ever.
I know all about V:SoH, I don't call it next gen, cause it's not. What it is : a good game for veterans of eq like games. It is not a bad thing what I am saying, don't understand it that way. It won't draw huge crowds, but those playing it will most probably be satisfied, I have no doubt.
Hate to argue, but I think in ideas and methods AoC has most innovations... these guys shocked and awed me .. I was seriously looking into V:SoH when I started reading about AoC. And now I'm convinced, AoC will be the easy to learn, hard to master in it's true sense, not like wow. This either won't be such a great success as wow, tbh.
Sadly, though I hate to admit, WoW was the best MMORPG of all time, it's not for me, I personally hate it, but can't deny it's success. And if you want critical acclaim, then there is EVE, the most mature and complex MMO out there ...
I believe next Gen combat should have nothing much to do with the type of sword you use and everything to do with how you train your character for combat. I feel that the players should be able to design or think up what kind of armor and weapons they might like to have made for them and work with a crafter to figure out what type of weapons and amour are going to be effective their own unique fighting style.
The amour and the weapons they create can be able to do certain types of damage and offer certain types of protection, but I do not believe they should be the main focus of how or who would win the battle, I feel that should be decided on who has developed their characters combat abilities better and who has not. I think there should be over 400 different type of combat abilities to be learned, but you can not learn them all, and for each of the 400 different types there should be levels, take one combat style, to master that particular style you have to complete all 3 levels of it, however instead of mastering that particular style do only one or two levels of it and then pick out another combat style and try combining it together to develop your own combat ability that no one else will have. Everyone will have different combat abilities and styles, and the options for having different styles of combat are virtually unlimited.
The solider next to you will be your ally but he may also be a far better warrior then you are because of how he trained his character, but then again you may be a far better strategist and healer, or whatever, the options are limitless. I also would like to have armies, I feel players should be able to join together and develop their own armies, and they should be able to attack or invade other areas and fight their armies, there should be large scale battles of at least 300 to 600 on each side, and their can be uneven numbers as well, so if one side has fewer warriors then the other, they will have to use strategy and cunning or maybe their warriors are better trained in order to carry the day over the other side. With virtually almost and unlimited amount of different combat style amongst all the warriors doing battle in large scale battles I would imagine that the out comes of the battle could be anything even if one side is outnumber compared to the other side, and it would make for some real spectacular battles.
As well when one armies invades the others territory, it is not just one battle, there are a number of battles, you are battling your way towards the enemies main kingdom, and the enemy is trying to halt your advance and push you back. All of these things will work hand in hand with crafters, traders, mercenaries, smugglers, and etc... In new areas that have been conquered new towns will be set up and developed, and those towns will need a steady line of trade. Anyways there is just so much more that can be done in Moms, that are not being done, and there is no imagination going on in this industry anymore. Bring it on down now.
Damn byotch dat aint no friggn moon fool, dat be a friggn space station byotch.
Publishers don't want innovative, they want proven recipies.
As for what you wrote, look up darkfall, it's the closest thing to what you are saying. I however like a class system, so I'll stick with AoC, but I will give V:SoH a fair chance, no worries.
Darkfall has a lot of tripple A ideas (and there you can literally push).... wonder if they can do it ...
EVE is skill based, fully skil based. Most complex economy out there, most complex game, niche, but the best. And economy and politics play HUUGE role....
I brought it on, it's been done/it's being done, but understand, that most ppl are ... well how to put it simply ? ... to stupid for a game like that... I could have said : they don't want that much depth, they want fun .. both are factors.
And when everybody expects good gfx and top-line engine and whatnot, well that takes a lot of money, money to be earned with subs... so comlex is riskier by the minute...
Heck there is far more money is simple easy going game play, look at WOW, complex game play can be fun, but the player who like complex game play are the minority, the simple fact is that there is a far larger population of casual gamers who just want to spend an hour or less a night playing a game and thats it. MMO industry is not in the business to make games for people to play so that people will enjoy playing game, they are in the business to make a huge crap load of money and that is all. Bring it on down now.
Damn byotch dat aint no friggn moon fool, dat be a friggn space station byotch.
When I think of next gen, I think real time combat first. Instead we have devs who keep rehashing the same old stuff. What we want is a skill based system, not so much twitch intensive, which it seems like AoC delivers. AA talks about how the ranger can control the velocity at which he shoots; I have not seen any vids that display this BUT I have seen this in AoC. Truth is this game play feature can be seen in games like Zelda OoT. We have devs that keep stealing from the wrong games, lol.
After all the world building, the game has to be FUN and I am sorry, Vanguards combat engine does not look FUN, it looks like EQ but with elements from FFXI in it (NO not eq2, eq2 stole FFXI skill chain system, took out the skill and made it retard accessible)
So to AA comments, Vanguard does not display the graphic capability or the precise combat physics we as gamers expect from a next gen game. Now, by me saying this I understand that mmo games are based on mud design concepts and I fully understand that MAYBE the tech is not there right now to make these games but AoC is trying. Bottom line, we have games like AoC, Gods and Heroes and Tabula Rasa that are going to try and break new ground, those are next gen mmos.
Next week ill be enjoying PSU which delivers the kind of fun fast paced combat that I so very much crave. Who knows, if Sega can do a half decent job with content, I wont even come back here lol.
Originally posted by random11 5 Years ago this would have been decently interesting game... But I think calling it next gen now, is a mistake. This game introduces nothing that hasn't been done before. The basic concept and base ruleset are so EQish. I have no problem with the game itself (won't play it more than 1 month though), but this is not next gen. AoC or Darkfall, now they are truly next gen, not this.
QFT....
....
Whatever that means...
Of all that is written, I love only what a person has written with his own blood. -Nietzsche
Originally posted by random11 5 Years ago this would have been decently interesting game... But I think calling it next gen now, is a mistake. This game introduces nothing that hasn't been done before. The basic concept and base ruleset are so EQish. I have no problem with the game itself (won't play it more than 1 month though), but this is not next gen. AoC or Darkfall, now they are truly next gen, not this.
What's up with people from other games ?! Is that a new trend ? Bashing a game that you obviously have no interest in ?
EDIT : not really aimed at teh OP since he,s gonna try, but the others in the thread.
i can never really call any game next gen, what games are , are liken to a slow evolution each one building on the last, with improvements most of the time on the next game coming, and as there is evolving there is also survival of the fittest, this is also part of the evolution of games , as if a game is survivng and thriving, then ideas will come from that game for the next in line, if a game does awful it will be forgotten and dropped with no ideas taken from it for the newer games. And with evolution, and survival of the fittest, comes in genocide, this is a good game that was cancelled, even though it could haved thrived and been very very good with limitless potential, an example of game genocide is EARTH AND BEYOND. It was doing very well then set to its black sunset.
well thats my view. Vanguard is part of the slow evolution of the fantasy genus family line.
Hey, if you REALLY want to be NextGen, how about, I dunno, releasing on time? Or actually giving out an actual date. Now that is something really different!
Wow, which releases BC on 11/28, at least according to all known retail sources, has yet to be announced officially by Bliizzard as, in fact, 11/28. Go figure.
Vanguard has a nebulous release date. This is not a slam, its a fact. Your release has been nebulous for 2+ years. Every year, you say sometime this year. And then, over halfway through the year, you postpone again.
And your web site says nada about when the game will actually be released. IE, when it will actually, in fact, be playable.
I remember going nuts about Wow during its beta, thinking come on man, just release the damn thing. Give us a date, something. Then stress beta came and went and still, nada. Finally, they said OK, Thanksgiving, 2004, we are a go. And all the beta testers said man no way, this game is YEARS away from public consumption. Us nonbeta testers (hint hint hint) all said well it looked good in stress, in looked good in open, so WTF mates? Then we figured the beta testers, w/ their level 60's, really didn't want anyone else playin in their sandbox (to the point that they howled endlessly when Blizzard wiped all characters).
My biggest gripes with Vanguard (and incidentally, I quit WoW because I was weary of it. I tried Auto Assault, won't go into that game, then I tried EQ2 PvP, oh God, that was horrible. Now I am back to playing Wow):
#1 No release date other than this quarter, next year. Rinse repeat. I am not even sure what this does for you. Maybe you figure ok, Wow will release BC in 11/2006. If we wait another 6 months, we grab all the Wow players weary of BC, the ones who are done w/ end game content. Certainly we don't want to compete head to head w/ Wow when they release BC. While thats a smart business decision, a smarter one would have been to trump BC and release this summer. But now a lot of former Wow players, who see no release date from you or any other viable MMORPG (Age of Conan postponed too, hell the only one to actually release was Archlord and that game is total crap) are gonna go back to Wow. Maybe they play Vanguard, maybe they don't.
#2 Your web site is terrible. No updates pertaining to the game. Endless interviews w/ Devs (joy to the world, if I read another interview I am gonna puke). How about updates on the actual game, not to some guy who worships gnomes or thinks Orcs are truly the master race? How about updating race and class information. How about daily updates on the web site letting us know where you are, so we can track when the game will be released, and actually look forward to it? Whatever you are gonna say about Wow, their web site kicks butt and is updated at least once a day during Mon-Fri. Yes, a lot of it is frivelous stuff, but it gets updated every day.
#3 By all accounts, Vanguard is EQ3. I don't know any better because your web site gives very little info. Everything I have seen points to an EQ-like environment. Last time I checked, Wow kicked EQ/EQ2's butt. Maybe if you actually had viable "this is what we are offering" rather than portraying your ideas of what you think an MMORPG should have - again talking about the web site. None of it seems real, it all seems like ideas. Are you forgetting people have to play this game? That you actually have to release it, so people can play it? Or do you think your customer base is a bunch of people whose job is solely to track the game via your web site year after year after year?
#4 Next gen? Next gen what? Graphics? You better get off that horse in a hurry. The graphics are ok, but just ok. Big doesn't mean better. I heard EQ2 graphics were good. When I played it, I thought something was wrong w/ my video card. They are terrible. The fight mechanics suck, the mobs are lame, how your char moves and jumps is terrible (like mountain climbing, what a great idea, my character stands straight up and moves in a linear fashion up a wall. Neat!) And don't get me started on EQ2 horses (no wonder they did the flying carpets, rather than fix the horrible horse graphics.
#5 More on #4, since Vanguard Devs came from EQ, well, how about it? Whats fixed? Whats new? Whats Next Gen? How about more info, not just nebulous, ambigiuous reports.
#6 PvP. Wow, its not in the game. Great. And thats not like EQ2 how, exactly? So it will be in there ... wait, don't tell me, as an afterthought, just like in EQ2! Fabulous! You just eliminated how much of a potential fan base? Lets run the numbers. Nope, forget it, let me just say its high. We all want to role play and explore and only fight the mobs, not each other.
Now, this sounds like a slam, and it is. I have been to Vanguard's web site every day for ... I dunno. Over a year. I tracked it before that for a long time. I never got in any beta, despite numerous attempts. I have seen every video, and looked at a ton of screenshots. I wanted to play it, I sort of still do, but I am not seeing any real attempt to launch it. I am tired of grandstanding, no updates, and endless Dev interviews w/ people who seems like prima donna game geeks who have no idea what its like to actually run a game, but certainly can come to work and pretend to be a gnome.
Swell. See you in The Burning Crusade, and maybe Vanguard if it ever shows up in stores.
Originally posted by blazeroth Swell. See you in The Burning Crusade, and maybe Vanguard if it ever shows up in stores.
Vanguard will be released when it's ready. I understand being impatient, I am impatient, but would you rather they shipped it half done? I doubt that.
Also, this game is not going to be like WoW. WoW is an EQ clone that you can solo to max level. Nothing wrong with that, just nothing very special either. Another thing, if you had a gaming rig that was good, you would think EQ2's graphics are great. Need a couple gigs of ram and then it plays like a dream.
Originally posted by anarchyart Vanguard will be released when it's ready. I understand being impatient, I am impatient, but would you rather they shipped it half done? I doubt that. Also, this game is not going to be like WoW. WoW is an EQ clone that you can solo to max level. Nothing wrong with that, just nothing very special either. Another thing, if you had a gaming rig that was good, you would think EQ2's graphics are great. Need a couple gigs of ram and then it plays like a dream.
Are you telling me that after 3+ years of development, its still only half done? I find that hard to believe. And for certain aspects of the game, if the game is truly that immense as advertised, what does half done mean? Let's say they add some stuff post-release that could have been in the original one (hmm, well that isn't Next Gen, all MMORPGs do that), so what, really? If it improves replay value great. My alts will have a good time (unless they limit alts like EQ2 does).
But come on, that old horse has been beaten to death. We will release it when its ready. EVERYONE says that, and thinks it will buy them another quarter. And OK - lets say it does need X amount of work. Why not publish more on that subject? Why the secrecy? And I say this about a game that has been in development, and had numerous release dates published and postponed. Frankly, it was old the first time they said it.
Wow is an EQ clone. Are you serious? EQ? And EQ is a clone of what? Don't tell me EQ didn't rip off elements of Diablo, who ripped off from other RPGs. Everyone borrows or copies, why not? Take what is good, don't repeat what is bad, learn from your mistakes. And regardless of how much was copied, Wow is still a much better, way more dynamic, game than EQ could ever have hoped to grow up to be.
And EQ2 graphics, are you for real? Dude, everything, from water effects or lack thereof (OK, lets get nit picky. No splashes, no waves. Even City of Heroes has better water dynamics). Trees, ground - most of it looks the same in all the original EQ2 zones. The city buildings are just endless rows in endless zones that no one goes to (once I figured out where everything was, I stayed in Graystone in Qeynos. No point to going anywhere else). It was all dark and frankly, tired and very small. The mobs, from movement to design, are extremely generic and very boring. And the animations are terrible, from your char to the mobs (fighting, emote, everything).
Frankly, Wow was slammed for having cartoonish graphics. Once I went to Auto Assault, then EQ2, then back to Wow, I was pretty much blown away by Wow's graphics after having my expectations reduced so much.
There are aspects of EQ2 that are great. For example, sharing stuff w/ alts on the same faction/server. That rocks. Crafting, while a bit time intensive, yes it does make more sense than Wow's grind out 100 worhtless hammers and gain this many levels. I will never endorse crafting in Wow.
But overall, Wow is a great game. I walked away from it for 4 months. I was hoping to be playing Vanguard in December. Then I heard January. Now I hear March. After years of hearing the same thing, frankly, I am fed up.
Wow is an EQ clone. Are you serious? EQ? And EQ is a clone of what? Don't tell me EQ didn't rip off elements of Diablo, who ripped off from other RPGs. Everyone borrows or copies, why not? Take what is good, don't repeat what is bad, learn from your mistakes. And regardless of how much was copied, Wow is still a much better, way more dynamic, game than EQ could ever have hoped to grow up to be.
Dynamic as in 'we'll hold your hand until 60 and then let you raid for the rest of your days' dynamic? And dear lord, I would hope WoW improved upon EQ as they only released five years apart. That's like saying Super Mario 64 is a much better, way more dynamic title than Super Mario Bros 3.
Comments
Since you asked nicely
Age of conan's combat is not twich based. Some people might believe so, but it's not actually. It's semi realtime, as I understood. Twich based combat has no roll for hitting, here there are complex rules in the background. First a touch has to be made, so then a dodge or block(defence) roll can ba made. The touch is totally realtime, the dodge/block is automated and skill/stat based. This is as concrete as it gets. There are no rounds, different weapons have different speeds and ranges, and there is directional hitting. 6 zones upper/lower left and right, head, torso. Making one hit after the other differs in time, depending on the location. So you have to pay attention here, if you swing from left to right once, and you want the next swing to be the same, then it takes more time, then if you were to swing one on the left side, then one on the right side. It's realistic that way. So this has a direct effect on dps.
This is a meele combat quite difficult to master I presume, though I have yet to play it, one thing is clear, this is next gen melee combat.
The spells : every spell caster has spell components. You don't launch spells in succession, you compile your spell from different components so to speak. For you to more easily grasp it, it is like the bard song in V:SoH. Only it's done in real time everytime you start casting. Of course magic also corrupts the soul (we're still guessing about what that means, all we know for certain is you might get seriously injured). So if you want to pump too much of your bad voodoo magic onto the enemy, then it will backfire...
Collision detection : neat stuff, here is where melee tactics really comes into play. PCs will collide with eachother (except in heavily crowded cities) so you can box your enemy in, stand in the doorway, push, melee cover for archers ... lots of possibilities here.
Mounted combat. One quick example : you ride a horse, and hold your attack stance ready.. the faster your horse is riding on the moment of impact, the more damage it does on a successful hit.
Formation combat .. no need to explain this : the droup gets in formation, and that has certain advantages, combine that with collision detection and you have THE next gen combat!
Hate to argue, but I think in ideas and methods AoC has most innovations... these guys shocked and awed me .. I was seriously looking into V:SoH when I started reading about AoC. And now I'm convinced, AoC will be the easy to learn, hard to master in it's true sense, not like wow. This either won't be such a great success as wow, tbh.
Sadly, though I hate to admit, WoW was the best MMORPG of all time, it's not for me, I personally hate it, but can't deny it's success. And if you want critical acclaim, then there is EVE, the most mature and complex MMO out there ...
I believe next Gen combat should have nothing much to do with the type of sword you use and everything to do with how you train your character for combat. I feel that the players should be able to design or think up what kind of armor and weapons they might like to have made for them and work with a crafter to figure out what type of weapons and amour are going to be effective their own unique fighting style.
The amour and the weapons they create can be able to do certain types of damage and offer certain types of protection, but I do not believe they should be the main focus of how or who would win the battle, I feel that should be decided on who has developed their characters combat abilities better and who has not. I think there should be over 400 different type of combat abilities to be learned, but you can not learn them all, and for each of the 400 different types there should be levels, take one combat style, to master that particular style you have to complete all 3 levels of it, however instead of mastering that particular style do only one or two levels of it and then pick out another combat style and try combining it together to develop your own combat ability that no one else will have. Everyone will have different combat abilities and styles, and the options for having different styles of combat are virtually unlimited.
The solider next to you will be your ally but he may also be a far better warrior then you are because of how he trained his character, but then again you may be a far better strategist and healer, or whatever, the options are limitless. I also would like to have armies, I feel players should be able to join together and develop their own armies, and they should be able to attack or invade other areas and fight their armies, there should be large scale battles of at least 300 to 600 on each side, and their can be uneven numbers as well, so if one side has fewer warriors then the other, they will have to use strategy and cunning or maybe their warriors are better trained in order to carry the day over the other side. With virtually almost and unlimited amount of different combat style amongst all the warriors doing battle in large scale battles I would imagine that the out comes of the battle could be anything even if one side is outnumber compared to the other side, and it would make for some real spectacular battles.
As well when one armies invades the others territory, it is not just one battle, there are a number of battles, you are battling your way towards the enemies main kingdom, and the enemy is trying to halt your advance and push you back. All of these things will work hand in hand with crafters, traders, mercenaries, smugglers, and etc... In new areas that have been conquered new towns will be set up and developed, and those towns will need a steady line of trade. Anyways there is just so much more that can be done in Moms, that are not being done, and there is no imagination going on in this industry anymore. Bring it on down now.
Damn byotch dat aint no friggn moon fool, dat be a friggn space station byotch.
Publishers don't want innovative, they want proven recipies.
As for what you wrote, look up darkfall, it's the closest thing to what you are saying. I however like a class system, so I'll stick with AoC, but I will give V:SoH a fair chance, no worries.
Darkfall has a lot of tripple A ideas (and there you can literally push).... wonder if they can do it ...
EVE is skill based, fully skil based. Most complex economy out there, most complex game, niche, but the best. And economy and politics play HUUGE role....
I brought it on, it's been done/it's being done, but understand, that most ppl are ... well how to put it simply ? ... to stupid for a game like that... I could have said : they don't want that much depth, they want fun .. both are factors.
And when everybody expects good gfx and top-line engine and whatnot, well that takes a lot of money, money to be earned with subs... so comlex is riskier by the minute...
See my point?
I brought it...
Heck there is far more money is simple easy going game play, look at WOW, complex game play can be fun, but the player who like complex game play are the minority, the simple fact is that there is a far larger population of casual gamers who just want to spend an hour or less a night playing a game and thats it. MMO industry is not in the business to make games for people to play so that people will enjoy playing game, they are in the business to make a huge crap load of money and that is all. Bring it on down now.
Damn byotch dat aint no friggn moon fool, dat be a friggn space station byotch.
When I think of next gen, I think real time combat first. Instead we have devs who keep rehashing the same old stuff. What we want is a skill based system, not so much twitch intensive, which it seems like AoC delivers. AA talks about how the ranger can control the velocity at which he shoots; I have not seen any vids that display this BUT I have seen this in AoC. Truth is this game play feature can be seen in games like Zelda OoT. We have devs that keep stealing from the wrong games, lol.
After all the world building, the game has to be FUN and I am sorry, Vanguards combat engine does not look FUN, it looks like EQ but with elements from FFXI in it (NO not eq2, eq2 stole FFXI skill chain system, took out the skill and made it retard accessible)
So to AA comments, Vanguard does not display the graphic capability or the precise combat physics we as gamers expect from a next gen game. Now, by me saying this I understand that mmo games are based on mud design concepts and I fully understand that MAYBE the tech is not there right now to make these games but AoC is trying. Bottom line, we have games like AoC, Gods and Heroes and Tabula Rasa that are going to try and break new ground, those are next gen mmos.
Next week ill be enjoying PSU which delivers the kind of fun fast paced combat that I so very much crave. Who knows, if Sega can do a half decent job with content, I wont even come back here lol.
Rites of the Four Horsemen
http://www.rotfh.com
QFT....
....
Whatever that means...
Of all that is written, I love only what a person has written with his own blood. -Nietzsche
EDIT : not really aimed at teh OP since he,s gonna try, but the others in the thread.
eqnext.wikia.com
i can never really call any game next gen, what games are , are liken to a slow evolution each one building on the last, with improvements most of the time on the next game coming, and as there is evolving there is also survival of the fittest, this is also part of the evolution of games , as if a game is survivng and thriving, then ideas will come from that game for the next in line, if a game does awful it will be forgotten and dropped with no ideas taken from it for the newer games. And with evolution, and survival of the fittest, comes in genocide, this is a good game that was cancelled, even though it could haved thrived and been very very good with limitless potential, an example of game genocide is EARTH AND BEYOND. It was doing very well then set to its black sunset.
well thats my view. Vanguard is part of the slow evolution of the fantasy genus family line.
playing eq2 and two worlds
And much much more, i still think this a 3 gen or whatever you may call it
Starwars Galaxies, An Empier Diveded, That's what it says on my box anyway.
Hey, if you REALLY want to be NextGen, how about, I dunno, releasing on time? Or actually giving out an actual date. Now that is something really different!
Wow, which releases BC on 11/28, at least according to all known retail sources, has yet to be announced officially by Bliizzard as, in fact, 11/28. Go figure.
Vanguard has a nebulous release date. This is not a slam, its a fact. Your release has been nebulous for 2+ years. Every year, you say sometime this year. And then, over halfway through the year, you postpone again.
And your web site says nada about when the game will actually be released. IE, when it will actually, in fact, be playable.
I remember going nuts about Wow during its beta, thinking come on man, just release the damn thing. Give us a date, something. Then stress beta came and went and still, nada. Finally, they said OK, Thanksgiving, 2004, we are a go. And all the beta testers said man no way, this game is YEARS away from public consumption. Us nonbeta testers (hint hint hint) all said well it looked good in stress, in looked good in open, so WTF mates? Then we figured the beta testers, w/ their level 60's, really didn't want anyone else playin in their sandbox (to the point that they howled endlessly when Blizzard wiped all characters).
My biggest gripes with Vanguard (and incidentally, I quit WoW because I was weary of it. I tried Auto Assault, won't go into that game, then I tried EQ2 PvP, oh God, that was horrible. Now I am back to playing Wow):
#1 No release date other than this quarter, next year. Rinse repeat. I am not even sure what this does for you. Maybe you figure ok, Wow will release BC in 11/2006. If we wait another 6 months, we grab all the Wow players weary of BC, the ones who are done w/ end game content. Certainly we don't want to compete head to head w/ Wow when they release BC. While thats a smart business decision, a smarter one would have been to trump BC and release this summer. But now a lot of former Wow players, who see no release date from you or any other viable MMORPG (Age of Conan postponed too, hell the only one to actually release was Archlord and that game is total crap) are gonna go back to Wow. Maybe they play Vanguard, maybe they don't.
#2 Your web site is terrible. No updates pertaining to the game. Endless interviews w/ Devs (joy to the world, if I read another interview I am gonna puke). How about updates on the actual game, not to some guy who worships gnomes or thinks Orcs are truly the master race? How about updating race and class information. How about daily updates on the web site letting us know where you are, so we can track when the game will be released, and actually look forward to it? Whatever you are gonna say about Wow, their web site kicks butt and is updated at least once a day during Mon-Fri. Yes, a lot of it is frivelous stuff, but it gets updated every day.
#3 By all accounts, Vanguard is EQ3. I don't know any better because your web site gives very little info. Everything I have seen points to an EQ-like environment. Last time I checked, Wow kicked EQ/EQ2's butt. Maybe if you actually had viable "this is what we are offering" rather than portraying your ideas of what you think an MMORPG should have - again talking about the web site. None of it seems real, it all seems like ideas. Are you forgetting people have to play this game? That you actually have to release it, so people can play it? Or do you think your customer base is a bunch of people whose job is solely to track the game via your web site year after year after year?
#4 Next gen? Next gen what? Graphics? You better get off that horse in a hurry. The graphics are ok, but just ok. Big doesn't mean better. I heard EQ2 graphics were good. When I played it, I thought something was wrong w/ my video card. They are terrible. The fight mechanics suck, the mobs are lame, how your char moves and jumps is terrible (like mountain climbing, what a great idea, my character stands straight up and moves in a linear fashion up a wall. Neat!) And don't get me started on EQ2 horses (no wonder they did the flying carpets, rather than fix the horrible horse graphics.
#5 More on #4, since Vanguard Devs came from EQ, well, how about it? Whats fixed? Whats new? Whats Next Gen? How about more info, not just nebulous, ambigiuous reports.
#6 PvP. Wow, its not in the game. Great. And thats not like EQ2 how, exactly? So it will be in there ... wait, don't tell me, as an afterthought, just like in EQ2! Fabulous! You just eliminated how much of a potential fan base? Lets run the numbers. Nope, forget it, let me just say its high. We all want to role play and explore and only fight the mobs, not each other.
Now, this sounds like a slam, and it is. I have been to Vanguard's web site every day for ... I dunno. Over a year. I tracked it before that for a long time. I never got in any beta, despite numerous attempts. I have seen every video, and looked at a ton of screenshots. I wanted to play it, I sort of still do, but I am not seeing any real attempt to launch it. I am tired of grandstanding, no updates, and endless Dev interviews w/ people who seems like prima donna game geeks who have no idea what its like to actually run a game, but certainly can come to work and pretend to be a gnome.
Swell. See you in The Burning Crusade, and maybe Vanguard if it ever shows up in stores.
Currently playing:
World of Warcraft
Vanguard will be released when it's ready. I understand being impatient, I am impatient, but would you rather they shipped it half done? I doubt that.
Also, this game is not going to be like WoW. WoW is an EQ clone that you can solo to max level. Nothing wrong with that, just nothing very special either. Another thing, if you had a gaming rig that was good, you would think EQ2's graphics are great. Need a couple gigs of ram and then it plays like a dream.
Are you telling me that after 3+ years of development, its still only half done? I find that hard to believe. And for certain aspects of the game, if the game is truly that immense as advertised, what does half done mean? Let's say they add some stuff post-release that could have been in the original one (hmm, well that isn't Next Gen, all MMORPGs do that), so what, really? If it improves replay value great. My alts will have a good time (unless they limit alts like EQ2 does).
But come on, that old horse has been beaten to death. We will release it when its ready. EVERYONE says that, and thinks it will buy them another quarter. And OK - lets say it does need X amount of work. Why not publish more on that subject? Why the secrecy? And I say this about a game that has been in development, and had numerous release dates published and postponed. Frankly, it was old the first time they said it.
Wow is an EQ clone. Are you serious? EQ? And EQ is a clone of what? Don't tell me EQ didn't rip off elements of Diablo, who ripped off from other RPGs. Everyone borrows or copies, why not? Take what is good, don't repeat what is bad, learn from your mistakes. And regardless of how much was copied, Wow is still a much better, way more dynamic, game than EQ could ever have hoped to grow up to be.
And EQ2 graphics, are you for real? Dude, everything, from water effects or lack thereof (OK, lets get nit picky. No splashes, no waves. Even City of Heroes has better water dynamics). Trees, ground - most of it looks the same in all the original EQ2 zones. The city buildings are just endless rows in endless zones that no one goes to (once I figured out where everything was, I stayed in Graystone in Qeynos. No point to going anywhere else). It was all dark and frankly, tired and very small. The mobs, from movement to design, are extremely generic and very boring. And the animations are terrible, from your char to the mobs (fighting, emote, everything).
Frankly, Wow was slammed for having cartoonish graphics. Once I went to Auto Assault, then EQ2, then back to Wow, I was pretty much blown away by Wow's graphics after having my expectations reduced so much.
There are aspects of EQ2 that are great. For example, sharing stuff w/ alts on the same faction/server. That rocks. Crafting, while a bit time intensive, yes it does make more sense than Wow's grind out 100 worhtless hammers and gain this many levels. I will never endorse crafting in Wow.
But overall, Wow is a great game. I walked away from it for 4 months. I was hoping to be playing Vanguard in December. Then I heard January. Now I hear March. After years of hearing the same thing, frankly, I am fed up.
Currently playing:
World of Warcraft
Wow is an EQ clone. Are you serious? EQ? And EQ is a clone of what? Don't tell me EQ didn't rip off elements of Diablo, who ripped off from other RPGs. Everyone borrows or copies, why not? Take what is good, don't repeat what is bad, learn from your mistakes. And regardless of how much was copied, Wow is still a much better, way more dynamic, game than EQ could ever have hoped to grow up to be.
Dynamic as in 'we'll hold your hand until 60 and then let you raid for the rest of your days' dynamic? And dear lord, I would hope WoW improved upon EQ as they only released five years apart. That's like saying Super Mario 64 is a much better, way more dynamic title than Super Mario Bros 3.