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Please, for the love of god.

AnagethAnageth Member Posts: 2,217
in Vanguard: Saga of Heroes

Try this game at launch before you start bashing it. I completely avoid the V:SoH section because of exactly this. There are way too many people saying it doesn't look finished, which can only mean two things.

  1. They are in Beta, and if they say it doesn't feel finished, it's because it's in frickin beta.
  2. They're just looking at screenshots and pulling comments out of their butt.

I have tried many rubbish games in the past, despite people telling me it's crap. I may have wasted a good $100 dollars on DDO and DnL, but guess what? I tried them, I lived through them and now I know what I like and dislike.

To conclude:

Try this game, don't just listen to the vocal minority. If you don't like it in the end, just get a refund!

No longer visiting MMORPG.com.

«13

Comments

  • AmatheAmathe Member LegendaryPosts: 7,630

    I love how you have concluded who the "vocal minority" is. What statistical method did you use? Where did you gather your data?

    For someone who complains about people talking about an issue for which they allegedly lack empirical support, you don't have any hesitation yourself do you?

    EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests

  • EliasThorneEliasThorne Member UncommonPosts: 338
    Two points - in my experience (check my sig) a very late beta almost always is 90%+ of how a game is at release and since when can you get a refund on an MMO?

    Or was it you that stuffed up my Dark Ages code when I bought it a couple of years ago? image



    Currently Playing: GW2
    Currently Following: Elder Scrolls Online
    Games in my wake: Anarchy Online, Archlord (beta), Asheron’s Call, Asheron’s Call 2, City of Heroes, Dark Age of Camelot (SI to Catacombs), DDO, EVE Online, EverQuest II (beta), Guild Wars, Horizons, Lineage II,LORTO, Rift, RF Online (beta), RYL, Saga of Ryzon, Shadowbane, Star Wars Galaxies, Vanguard, WAR, WoW

  • AnagethAnageth Member Posts: 2,217


    Originally posted by Amathe

    I love how you have concluded who the "vocal minority" is. What statistical method did you use? Where did you gather your data?
    For someone who complains about people talking about an issue for which they allegedly lack empirical support, you don't have any hesitation yourself do you?

    Want an example? Look at the SWG forum, which was bombarded with hatred towards SoE and CU/NGE changes to the game. Only since the new categories have emerged that people have started to express how they like the game, something that wasn't possible before.

    Now look at this forum, there's hardly any threads about people expressing their interest. There was before though, prior to Sigil announcing SoE would be publishing the game. Only since then, every thread is either a minor bash or comments on how it isn't looking good. Does it sound familiar? Looks to me people just love to jump on the bandwagon and show prejudice.

    Just play the game then make up your mind, that's all I meant.

    Edit:

    @Elias You've always had the option to get a refund for an MMOG, well in the UK at least. I've returned most of my games (DDO, SWG, EQ2).

    No longer visiting MMORPG.com.

  • CopelandCopeland Member Posts: 1,955

    Originally posted by EliasThorne
    Two points - in my experience (check my sig) a very late beta almost always is 90%+ of how a game is at release and since when can you get a refund on an MMO?Or was it you that stuffed up my Dark Ages code when I bought it a couple of years ago? image


    Well its not a late beta. The game still has about 6 or 7 months of development time. It's in beta 3 out of 6. That means it's 50%.

  • metalcoremetalcore Member Posts: 798

    Originally posted by Amathe
    I love how you have concluded who the "vocal minority" is. What statistical method did you use? Where did you gather your data?
    For someone who complains about people talking about an issue for which they allegedly lack empirical support, you don't have any hesitation yourself do you?

    As they say in the programming world, 90% of the issue by 10% of the people.

    Its largely true of most things in life.

    Now playing: VG (after a long break from MMORPGS)
    Played for more than a month: Darkfall online, Vanguard SOH, Everquest, Horizons, WoW, SWG, Everquest II, Eve

  • CopelandCopeland Member Posts: 1,955

    Originally posted by metalcore
    Originally posted by Amathe
    I love how you have concluded who the "vocal minority" is. What statistical method did you use? Where did you gather your data?
    For someone who complains about people talking about an issue for which they allegedly lack empirical support, you don't have any hesitation yourself do you?

    As they say in the programming world, 90% of the issue by 10% of the people.

    Its largely true of most things in life.

    That's true. Some people just have a knack for doing the unexpected.

  • orkideaorkidea Member Posts: 73
    People who judge games by looking only on screenshots are stupid.
  • MX13MX13 Member Posts: 2,489


    Originally posted by Copeland




    Originally posted by EliasThorne
    Two points - in my experience (check my sig) a very late beta almost always is 90%+ of how a game is at release and since when can you get a refund on an MMO?

    Or was it you that stuffed up my Dark Ages code when I bought it a couple of years ago? image




    Well its not a late beta. The game still has about 6 or 7 months of development time. It's in beta 3 out of 6. That means it's 50%.


    3 of 5 & about 4-5 months off (based on what Brad has said very recently) but you're right on, there is PLEANTY of time left.

    I'll start my own SWG... with Black Jack... and Hookers!!!

    In fact, forget the SWG!!!!

    image
    image
    image

  • AmatheAmathe Member LegendaryPosts: 7,630


    Originally posted by Anageth

    Want an example? Look at the SWG forum, which was bombarded with hatred towards SoE and CU/NGE changes to the game. Only since the new categories have emerged that people have started to express how they like the game, something that wasn't possible before.

    I beta tested SWG. They didn't listen to their testers. I played SWG at launch. They didn't listen then either. Instead, people were written off as a "vocal minority." Now look at that game. Even SOE has admitted they should have listened. Thank you for proving my point. image

    EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests

  • NeanderthalNeanderthal Member RarePosts: 1,861

    I'd give the game a try if it was a free download and I could play for free untill I see if I am correct about my main concern with it.  But my main concern is that it's going to be mostly a raiding game at high levels.  So they would have to let me play for free untill my character has been max level for a while in order for me to ascertain if I want to pay for the game.  And they certainly aren't going to do that.

    If they made a legal contract with the subscribers to the effect that they would refund the purchase price of the game and all of your monthly subscription fees if it turns out that you cannot progress your characters just as much through non-raiding as you can through raiding then I would seriously consider paying for the game.  But they aren't going to do that either.

    That would be something though, wouldn't it?  Lately Brad has really been pushing the spin to try to entice non-raiders and less time intensive players (aka casuals) to play his game.  Let him put his money where his mouth is and give us a legal contract ensuring a refund if it turns out that us unsavory non-raider and casual types really are gimped in his game.

    But he ain't gonna do that.  And I ain't gonna play a game that I know is going to treat me like a second class citizen just because I can't stand endless pve raiding.

  • AnagethAnageth Member Posts: 2,217


    Originally posted by Amathe



    Originally posted by Anageth

    Want an example? Look at the SWG forum, which was bombarded with hatred towards SoE and CU/NGE changes to the game. Only since the new categories have emerged that people have started to express how they like the game, something that wasn't possible before.


    I beta tested SWG. They didn't listen to their testers. I played SWG at launch. They didn't listen then either. Instead, people were written off as a "vocal minority." Now look at that game. Even SOE has admitted they should have listened. Thank you for proving my point. image


    What...the...hell...are...you...talking...about? I haven't said a thing about companies not listening to their audience, I'm talking about the frickin forum community.

    No longer visiting MMORPG.com.

  • AnofalyeAnofalye Member, Newbie CommonPosts: 7,433

    Getting a refund on a MMO is problematic, it is possible, but it is problematic and honestly, I don't like to argue with a salesman.  Personnally, I saw all I have to see, and if there is a non-raiding server I will give this game a try.  If there is only a raid-enforced policy on every server, I will do myself a favor and just avoid another bitter disappointing ending.

     

    I actually buy more than 20 games each year, if I buy a game, it mean I don't buy another.  Vanguard doesn't deserve this favor without a non-raiding server.

     

    The graphics are nice, many aspects are nice.  However, the raiding-crushing ending is just as bad as WoW, EQ and EQ2.  I find the CoH raiding ending to be mean, crude, evil and unbearable, I won't tell you how I feel about WoW/EQ/EQ2 ending, it is really a bad feeling I don't wish anyone to experience, ever.  Not even my enemies.  Games are there to make players dream, when they fail at such a basic thing, they doesn't deserve to prosper.

    - "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren

  • MrbloodworthMrbloodworth Member Posts: 5,615
    Originally posted by Anageth
    Try this game at launch before you start bashing it. I completely avoid the V:SoH section because of exactly this. There are way too many people saying it doesn't look finished, which can only mean two things. They are in Beta, and if they say it doesn't feel finished, it's because it's in frickin beta. They're just looking at screenshots and pulling comments out of their butt. I have tried many rubbish games in the past, despite people telling me it's crap. I may have wasted a good $100 dollars on DDO and DnL, but guess what? I tried them, I lived through them and now I know what I like and dislike. To conclude: Try this game, don't just listen to the vocal minority. If you don't like it in the end, just get a refund!

    I had completely forgotten that you cant talk about this
    game before it launches like any other game here on mmorpg.com because it was
    made by brad.



    My bad.



    ----------
    "Anyone posting on this forum is not an average user, and there for any opinions about the game are going to be overly critical compared to an average users opinions." - Me

    "No, your wrong.." - Random user #123

    "Hello person posting on a site specifically for MMO's in a thread on a sub forum specifically for a particular game talking about meta features and making comparisons to other titles in the genre, and their meta features.

    How are you?" -Me

  • AnagethAnageth Member Posts: 2,217


    Originally posted by Mrbloodworth



    Originally posted by Anageth

    Try this game at launch before you start bashing it. I completely avoid the V:SoH section because of exactly this. There are way too many people saying it doesn't look finished, which can only mean two things.

    They are in Beta, and if they say it doesn't feel finished, it's because it's in frickin beta.
    They're just looking at screenshots and pulling comments out of their butt.
    I have tried many rubbish games in the past, despite people telling me it's crap. I may have wasted a good $100 dollars on DDO and DnL, but guess what? I tried them, I lived through them and now I know what I like and dislike.
    To conclude:
    Try this game, don't just listen to the vocal minority. If you don't like it in the end, just get a refund!

    I had completely forgotten that you cant talk about this game before it launches like any other game here on mmorpg.com because it was made by brad.

    My bad.


    Were you dropped on your head as a child, or are you just plain thick? Name one sentence in my original post where I said don't discuss the game? I said don't bash it moron.

    No longer visiting MMORPG.com.

  • MrbloodworthMrbloodworth Member Posts: 5,615
    Originally posted by Anageth
    Originally posted by Mrbloodworth
    Originally posted by Anageth

    Try this game at launch before you start bashing it. I completely avoid the V:SoH section because of exactly this. There are way too many people saying it doesn't look finished, which can only mean two things.

    1. They are in Beta, and if they say it doesn't feel finished, it's because it's in frickin beta.
    2. They're just looking at screenshots and pulling comments out of their butt.

    I have tried many rubbish games in the past, despite people telling me it's crap. I may have wasted a good $100 dollars on DDO and DnL, but guess what? I tried them, I lived through them and now I know what I like and dislike.

    To conclude:

    Try this game, don't just listen to the vocal minority. If you don't like it in the end, just get a refund!

    I had completely forgotten that you cant talk about this game before it launches like any other game here on mmorpg.com because it was made by brad.

    My bad.

    Were you dropped on your head as a child, or are you just plain thick? Name one sentence in my original post where I said don't discuss the game? I said don't bash it moron.

    Your
    definition of basing seems to be any one saying they don’t like something about
    it.

     

    I personally don’t really like the player models. I guess
    that you can’t gather that opinion from screen shots and i am wrong in my assessment.

    ----------
    "Anyone posting on this forum is not an average user, and there for any opinions about the game are going to be overly critical compared to an average users opinions." - Me

    "No, your wrong.." - Random user #123

    "Hello person posting on a site specifically for MMO's in a thread on a sub forum specifically for a particular game talking about meta features and making comparisons to other titles in the genre, and their meta features.

    How are you?" -Me

  • AnagethAnageth Member Posts: 2,217


    Originally posted by Mrbloodworth



    Originally posted by Anageth



    Originally posted by Mrbloodworth



    Originally posted by Anageth

    Try this game at launch before you start bashing it. I completely avoid the V:SoH section because of exactly this. There are way too many people saying it doesn't look finished, which can only mean two things.

    They are in Beta, and if they say it doesn't feel finished, it's because it's in frickin beta.
    They're just looking at screenshots and pulling comments out of their butt.
    I have tried many rubbish games in the past, despite people telling me it's crap. I may have wasted a good $100 dollars on DDO and DnL, but guess what? I tried them, I lived through them and now I know what I like and dislike.
    To conclude:
    Try this game, don't just listen to the vocal minority. If you don't like it in the end, just get a refund!

    I had completely forgotten that you cant talk about this game before it launches like any other game here on mmorpg.com because it was made by brad.

    My bad.



    Were you dropped on your head as a child, or are you just plain thick? Name one sentence in my original post where I said don't discuss the game? I said don't bash it moron.

    Your definition of basing seems to be any one saying they don’t like something about it.

     

    I personally don’t really like the player models. I guess that you can’t gather that opinion from screen shots and i am wrong in my assessment.

    Seriously, shut up and re-read what I said. I'm saying:

    Like it? Good.

    Bashing it, but haven't played it? Shut up.

    Bashing it, but have played it? Singing about it for all I care.

    No longer visiting MMORPG.com.

  • SturmrabeSturmrabe Member Posts: 927


    Originally posted by Anageth



    Originally posted by Mrbloodworth



    Originally posted by Anageth



    Originally posted by Mrbloodworth



    Originally posted by Anageth

    Try this game at launch before you start bashing it. I completely avoid the V:SoH section because of exactly this. There are way too many people saying it doesn't look finished, which can only mean two things.

    They are in Beta, and if they say it doesn't feel finished, it's because it's in frickin beta.
    They're just looking at screenshots and pulling comments out of their butt.
    I have tried many rubbish games in the past, despite people telling me it's crap. I may have wasted a good $100 dollars on DDO and DnL, but guess what? I tried them, I lived through them and now I know what I like and dislike.
    To conclude:
    Try this game, don't just listen to the vocal minority. If you don't like it in the end, just get a refund!

    I had completely forgotten that you cant talk about this game before it launches like any other game here on mmorpg.com because it was made by brad.

    My bad.



    Were you dropped on your head as a child, or are you just plain thick? Name one sentence in my original post where I said don't discuss the game? I said don't bash it moron.

    Your definition of basing seems to be any one saying they don’t like something about it.

     

    I personally don’t really like the player models. I guess that you can’t gather that opinion from screen shots and i am wrong in my assessment.

    Seriously, shut up and re-read what I said. I'm saying:

    Like it? Good.

    Bashing it, but haven't played it? Shut up.

    Bashing it, but have played it? Singing about it for all I care.

    By your logic, noone who has not played it should be praising it either... they know just as much as the people who haven't played and are bashing it, so both of their opinions are equally [in]valid...

     

    there are plently of people people that HAVE played it and bash it, and I'm one, but people like you don't differentiate...

    imageimage
    Of all that is written, I love only what a person has written with his own blood. -Nietzsche

  • MrbloodworthMrbloodworth Member Posts: 5,615

    Please tell me why this game should be exempt from the normal
    discussions that other mmo's receive during the live of the title (meaning development)?



    Just one reason.




    ----------
    "Anyone posting on this forum is not an average user, and there for any opinions about the game are going to be overly critical compared to an average users opinions." - Me

    "No, your wrong.." - Random user #123

    "Hello person posting on a site specifically for MMO's in a thread on a sub forum specifically for a particular game talking about meta features and making comparisons to other titles in the genre, and their meta features.

    How are you?" -Me

  • SturmrabeSturmrabe Member Posts: 927


    Originally posted by Mrbloodworth

    Please tell me why this game should be exempt from the normal discussions that other mmo's receive during the live of the title (meaning development)?

    Just one reason.


    THE VISION, jigga what! Didn't you know?!?!

    And a lot of fat, late 30's-early 40's gamers from the heyday of EQ

    imageimage
    Of all that is written, I love only what a person has written with his own blood. -Nietzsche

  • AmatheAmathe Member LegendaryPosts: 7,630


    Originally posted by Anageth
    Bashing it, but haven't played it? Shut up.

    I haven't watched the movie "Pat", but based on what is known about it I'm pretty confident it sucks. I feel the same way about male pattern baldness, earthquakes, erectile disfunction and alimony. I have been spared those things as well but I can safely say none of them are good. So I don't share your view that you have to personally experience something to have a valid opinion as to its merits, particularly with the wealth of information that has been released about this game.

    EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests

  • CelestianCelestian Member UncommonPosts: 1,136
    Ok, I'm not a SoE hater (wow shocker I know on these forums). I currently play EQ2 and even SWG (couldn't stand anything before NGE). Infact go check my posting history.

    That being said do you have some mental block for remembering every single game in beta and it's release state? Seriously how many times have we been told "it's beta, we're in "debug" mode" or "it's beta, more content will be in release" or "it's beta the animations will be re-done" etc etc etc.

    I mean seriously are you that gullable? Watch the movies, the animations are horrible.

    The "excuse" that it's just "beta" is exactly that. I've yet to BE in a beta that said something like that and it actually CHANGED before release. I hope it does but experience has shown it's just smoke up the ass.

    I will give VG a shot but just based on their own forums and what I've read from their own FAQ I seriously doubt I'll spend much time on it. Games have changed and this one hasn't.




    http://www.greycouncil.org/

  • lomillerlomiller Member Posts: 1,810


    Originally posted by Celestian 
    Games have changed and this one hasn't.



    But what does that mean exactly?  Sure games have changed, but there is a very sizable population that isn’t happy with the direction of that change.  Are these people any more “wrong” then the ones who didn’t care about the things Vanguard is trying to bring back to the forefront?

  • CelestianCelestian Member UncommonPosts: 1,136
    Originally posted by lomiller
    Originally posted by Celestian 
    Games have changed and this one hasn't.

    But what does that mean exactly?  Sure games have changed, but there is a very sizable population that isn’t happy with the direction of that change.  Are these people any more “wrong” then the ones who didn’t care about the things Vanguard is trying to bring back to the forefront?


    What does it mean? Go look at their faq/forums and read up some. You'll see a lot of "features" that many games today do not have... for a reason.

    No it's not "wrong". Sure some people might like CRs and long travel times and almost no direction in game. I am not one of those people personally.



    http://www.greycouncil.org/

  • HelternHeltern Member Posts: 193

    Try it? Why? I was told to "go play WoW" by the fanbois of this sorry game and refuse to even think of playing this. I got a beta invite and trashed the email, why the heck play with the 13-21 year old lifeless raiders?

    Oh yea, I heard the LIE, this game isn't for raiders only, yea when they get items 400% better then it is. I don't buy the BS.

  • ShazzelShazzel Member Posts: 472

    Vanguards market is X-EQ players they should stick to that and accept the 50-200k subs that market will attract.

    You cant have it both ways which is what they'll try to lead you into thinking. Last time I checked V:SoH was only 20% solo content with endgame designed for raiding with long exp grinds and craptastic corpse recoverys.

    Sorry I dont need another game like that. Ive got EQ1-2 uninstalled and gathering dust if I wanted to torture myself i'd reinstall those.

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