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Religion should not control the law...
scaramoosh
Member Posts: 3,424
I saw on (UK tv) that on this side the christian faith can control the goverment and the laws in america if republicans stay in power. I find this to be very wrong and bad mainly because life is meant to be about freewill. The goverment should be neutral, what about people who don't believe? Why should they be forced into views they don't feel are right?
For example;
Legal lethal injection in hospitals.
For people who are sooo ill they suffer a slow and painful death and just don't want to live anymore, say like if your in sooo much pain and slowly dying. The law should allow you to have the option to go to a hospital and you have a right to die.
In the UK the goverment was going to make this legal, but nooooooooo the christians protested and the church had the power to stop it.
^ This really pissed me off and i thought hang on a min? Why should i be forced into something i don't believe. Christians are fine to tell you what to do but anyone elses views are wrong. I mean God isn't even real and they live in a deluded world.
GRRRR sooo angry
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Don't click here...no2
Comments
Whats wrong with saying:
Christians cant have a lethal injection but anyone who wants it can :S
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Don't click here...no2
I think the person should be able to choose wether or not they wish to die. Especially if they are suffering and are going to die anyways. I don't see how people can allow others to suffer that way, it's beyond me. -.-
I'm not sure how it is in the U.S, but I don't think it's legal here either, when it should be.
And yes your right, the church has way to much power and shove it where ever and whenever they can.
-sighs- Oh well, we wont live past 500 years anyways.
Independant, Shinto, Lesbian, and Proud!
"The greatest trick the devil played on humanity in the 20th century was convincing them that he didn't exist." (Paraphrasing) C.S. Lewis
"If a mother can kill her own child, what is left before I kill you and you kill me?" -Mother Teresa when talking about abortion after accepting the Nobel Peace Prize in 1979
Your argument is like a two legged dog with an eating disorder...weak and unbalanced.
Furthermore, with a more recent example... Online gambling ban... Another thing that doesn't hurt anything but the gambler (if they go too far with it). The list goes on and on... Marijuana smoking, any other drugs that don't cause violent side effects... All things that nobody but one's self should be governing.
Originally posted by Finwe
By obeying the law you are
already under the influence of ideologoues; whether they are religious
or not is really irrelevant in the big picture.
Finwe... If the law told you that you had to wear a jumpsuit made entirely out of bubblewrap and wear a hot pink my little pony helmet and carry around a teletubbies lunchpail everywhere... Would you unquestioningly follow it?
This whole thread got me kinda riled up sorry... But people should be accountable for their own stupidity. Companies should not have to put warning labels on hot coffee warning that the coffee is hot, or risk some ridiculous lawsuit. If you eat McDonalds and get fat, its your own damn fault, not McDonalds'. If you decide not to wear a seatbelt, crash, and wind up a bloody slump on the pavement, good for you! But why should there be laws for this?
Its not about religion. Christianity is just about moral values. Hey, I am not a christian, I am Catholic by birth, went to all Catholic private schools while growing up. I dont even go to church anymore.
Yes, I am a republican and I lean to the right pretty hard. Our forefathers were christians and America was founded on the moral values of Christianity.
On the lighter side.
New 'Primetime Live' Sex Survey Reveals That More Republicans (56 Percent) Are Very Satisfied With Their Sex Lives Than Democrats (47 Percent)
The poll analysis includes a breakdown by many subgroups, including region, age and even political party affiliation, which is the topic of results released today:
Republicans — 87 percent; Democrats — 76 percent
Republicans — 56 percent; Democrats — 47 percent
Republicans — 72 percent; Democrats — 62 percent
Among the factors that impact the survey results is that more men identify themselves as Republicans and men are more likely to say they are sexually satisfied and enjoy sex "a great deal." Also, Democrats are more likely to be women; and the poll results show that women are more likely to fake orgasms.
Our forefathers were christians and America was founded on the moral values of Christianity.
Wrong. Most of them were Deists and they drew their values from the Enlightenment.
As for religion controlling the law, I don't have a huge problem with it. Know why? Because ALL law is, ultimately, legislated morality -- secular or no.
By obeying the law you are already under the influence of ideologoues;
whether they are religious or not is really irrelevant in the big
picture.
This nails it.
But unlike Infliction, I don't have a problem with marijuana laws, or the hypothetical jumpsuit law. I believe everyone has the right to form their own society based on principles they believe are good for it, i.e. their own moral values. This is something generally respected in first world countries, where mobility is high -- no one gets shot for trying to escape over the border from communism. It's a great gift to be able to move to a society more in line with your own beliefs or, in a democracy, change the one you're in.
So we have two options for dealing with the religious right.
1. Move to Europe, which is full of societies that would be more in line with our personal beliefs.
2. Become a majority, or at least a powerful minority, in the United States, and change the harmful policies.
Personally, when I finish this year of college, I'm heading to the University of Vienna, and getting the hell out of dodge before we become a theocracy.
I'm fluent in German so I figured the best course of action was just to move.
2 words.. Free will.
Make a difference!
At the end of her 'discussion' with us, I told my friend to throw in one question - "How many kids do you have?" Her response (no surprise....) 12. She was less than 40. She'd only been married 15 years. YAY pro-life!
Why?
Are you telling me that your sense of right and wrong is better than someone else's sense of right and wrong?
Why is it right to Force a doctor to kill you?
Do you think it's right to place the responsibility of intentional death in a doctors hands?
I find it really silly that just because Christians influenced a descision that you all of a sudden have some grudge against it.
What about Canada. Gay people influenced a descision to make gay marriage legal. Do I hate the fact that gay people had the power to influence that descision? no. Because it's stupid. The law is the law. And you should follow it or abide by it. Maybe I'll make a thread called "In canada Gay people should not control the law"
Get off your biased high horse.
What's your Wu Name?
Donovan --> Wu Name = Violent Knight
Methane47 --> Wu Name = Thunderous Leader
"Some people call me the walking plank, 'cuz any where you go... Death is right behind you.."
<i>ME<i>
Why?
Are you telling me that your sense of right and wrong is better than someone else's sense of right and wrong?
Why is it right to Force a doctor to kill you?
Do you think it's right to place the responsibility of intentional death in a doctors hands?
I find it really silly that just because Christians influenced a descision that you all of a sudden have some grudge against it.
What about Canada. Gay people influenced a descision to make gay marriage legal. Do I hate the fact that gay people had the power to influence that descision? no. Because it's stupid. The law is the law. And you should follow it or abide by it. Maybe I'll make a thread called "In canada Gay people should not control the law"
Get off your biased high horse.
Its a mercy killing, and no doctor would be forced by any means to do it. Its no different than shooting a horse with a broken leg or a dog with rabies if you've say... Gotten 5 types of cancer and are paralyzed from the neck down. Why should someone be forced to live with that kind of torture? When I was 15 my dad was in the hospital, paralyzed from the neck down, dying from hepatitis c and a failed liver transplant. He refused the medication that was keeping him alive. While I miss my father a great deal, as he was pretty much my best friend, I respected his decision to end his suffering there. I would have killed him myself if he'd asked me to.
Ok really What doctor wants to take a person's life? It's a doctor's purpose to enhance and prolong life, not to take it away. Having it so it's someone's RIGHT to be killed upon request is imposing a big burden on the doctor to carry through with that request.
Why should a doctor be strong armed into taking a life just to protect the someone's rights... It's a silly silly thing you are asking to do. And I highly doubt that it's only christians that opposed that law.
What's your Wu Name?
Donovan --> Wu Name = Violent Knight
Methane47 --> Wu Name = Thunderous Leader
"Some people call me the walking plank, 'cuz any where you go... Death is right behind you.."
<i>ME<i>
Why?
Are you telling me that your sense of right and wrong is better than someone else's sense of right and wrong?
Why is it right to Force a doctor to kill you?
Do you think it's right to place the responsibility of intentional death in a doctors hands?
I find it really silly that just because Christians influenced a descision that you all of a sudden have some grudge against it.
What about Canada. Gay people influenced a descision to make gay marriage legal. Do I hate the fact that gay people had the power to influence that descision? no. Because it's stupid. The law is the law. And you should follow it or abide by it. Maybe I'll make a thread called "In canada Gay people should not control the law"
Get off your biased high horse.
Sorry, but that's halfway to a strawman argument. Gay people influenced the law to get given a freedom, not to restrict people. If the 'religious right' were arguing that I should be allowed to change my gender (I have no intention of doing this), then I would fully support them, because they're fighting for a freedom, whereas if they were arguing that it should be illegal for me to change my gender, despite having no intention of doing so, I'd still oppose them. Anyone who fights for freedoms (that don't inhibit others)>those who fight for restrictions.
It is funny, because in the UK, and in most of the world, state sponsored religion is the norm. Yet in the US, more people believe in religion, and practice it by going to worship weekly.
__________________________
"Its sad when people use religion to feel superior, its even worse to see people using a video game to do it."
--Arcken
"...when it comes to pimping EVE I have little restraints."
--Hellmar, CEO of CCP.
"It's like they took a gun, put it to their nugget sack and pulled the trigger over and over again, each time telling us how great it was that they were shooting themselves in the balls."
--Exar_Kun on SWG's NGE
Ok really What doctor wants to take a person's life? It's a doctor's purpose to enhance and prolong life, not to take it away. Having it so it's someone's RIGHT to be killed upon request is imposing a big burden on the doctor to carry through with that request.
Why should a doctor be strong armed into taking a life just to protect the someone's rights... It's a silly silly thing you are asking to do. And I highly doubt that it's only christians that opposed that law.
It's generally the same people who denounce abortion that denounce euthenasia. Generally those people are religious, have a high sense of 'morals', or have never been in the situation themself. Having been with/around people in both situations, I'd say it's a freedom that shouldn't be imposed upon.
Also please note that due to the hypocratic oath, no doctor -has- to perform their patients wishes if they do not feel it is right for them, but they have to refer them onto another doctor. Noone is being 'strong armed' here.
Also, why is it illegal in general to commit suicide (in this situation)? If you really could run with this 'it isn't fair on doctors' idea - which you can't, as I've established - then why not just let the patient do it for themself?
__________________________
"Its sad when people use religion to feel superior, its even worse to see people using a video game to do it."
--Arcken
"...when it comes to pimping EVE I have little restraints."
--Hellmar, CEO of CCP.
"It's like they took a gun, put it to their nugget sack and pulled the trigger over and over again, each time telling us how great it was that they were shooting themselves in the balls."
--Exar_Kun on SWG's NGE
"The greatest trick the devil played on humanity in the 20th century was convincing them that he didn't exist." (Paraphrasing) C.S. Lewis
"If a mother can kill her own child, what is left before I kill you and you kill me?" -Mother Teresa when talking about abortion after accepting the Nobel Peace Prize in 1979
The Hippocratic oath prevents doctors from assisting in suicides.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hippocratic_oath
edited for spelling.
In America I have bad teeth. If I lived in England my teeth would be perfect.
Ok really What doctor wants to take a person's life? It's a doctor's purpose to enhance and prolong life, not to take it away. Having it so it's someone's RIGHT to be killed upon request is imposing a big burden on the doctor to carry through with that request.
Why should a doctor be strong armed into taking a life just to protect the someone's rights... It's a silly silly thing you are asking to do. And I highly doubt that it's only christians that opposed that law.
So you'd rather have that person suffer a horrible death? What if they are doomed to die no matter what, but are suffering from pain? Should they just lay there and wait? Ha! Fuck that.
If someone is doomed to die no matter what, and is suffering, they should have a right to ask for someone, doesnt even have to be a doctor, to give them a lethal injection and kill them.
I personaly would rather commit suicide than lay in a bed in horrible pain and suffering, simply just waiting.
Now if a person is suffering alot with pain and can't really have a normal life anymore, but they can still live, than what? I say they too should be given the choice of wether or not they want to live anymore. Again, I'd rather commit suicide than live out the rest of my life in pain and not what is considered to be "normal." either, but that's just me.
Heh.
Independant, Shinto, Lesbian, and Proud!
A suicide if when one person kills themselves.
Not when a doctor gives a patient a lethal injection because they are suffering and no longer have the will, or want to live.
Ridiculous.
Independant, Shinto, Lesbian, and Proud!
