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After, joining the World OF Warcraft, I can see that everything is done really well in this game BUT
jackilojohn
Member Posts: 144
I have played many many MMORPGs so when it comes to understanding these games I know what i'm talking about. Wow has taken alot of elements from many games from the past and made them all work really well. The game is smooth and runs great on most systems. The combat is rather fun and overall everything that is in the game is done almost as good as it can be done; BUT there are tons of things missing. I don't know if the WoW community just never thinks outside the box or what but it's painfully obvious that this game isn't anything brilliant or special in anyway. When talking to all of my friends that play WoW I get this feeling that they have been playing WoW for along time now but they are still N00B$ when it comes to mmorpgs.
Wow doesn't have player housing nor can it ever have good player housing. The core landmass just can't support it. This might not seem like a big deal but if anyone has ever played a game that is totally free with where you can place your house/guild hall/ or even a player city of you have enough friends to make one. Then you understand how much this means. There can be warfare between rival cities, there is the fun of actually being apart of something like that, overall it just makes the game feel much more open ended.
Another thing that WoW doesn't do very well is allow for pvp to play a big role in the world. The idea of having 2 opposing sides limits the game in so many ways. If you leave it open pvp system then there are no set rules on who your enemy is. Lets say one guild within the game is known to stay in this one area of the world more than other. Lets say they stay there because of a large mine they get ore from. Now this guild doesn't own this really, atleast not by the game's rules, but if anyone comes into this area that guild is going to kill them because in an open pvp game anyone can kill anyone at anytime. Most games like this have laws and punishments for being a "murderer" this is a complicated situation so i'm not explaining it all in this post. Anyway, this allows for so much more than just mindlessly killing other players for absolutely no reason.
Also, WoW doesn't have a play ran economy and this takes alot away from the game also. If you don't know what a player based economy is, it's where nearly all of the items in the game are made and sold by players within the game. This leads to people actually having businesses in the game. This leads to "quests" being created by the players themselves. In SWG I would often have a crafter ask me to go find him some item and he'd pay me for it. This made the game more interesting because you actually had to know where to find something like this. It didn't matter if you went and looted it yourself or if you found someone who had one and bought it from him. Then the crafter would pay you for your work. WoW has nothing like this. If you combine the player based economy with Open PVP then you get a world with all kinds of possibilities. You could have someone that was really good at killing other players and getting items that they need to give to some crafter who was going to pay them for those items.
Here is another thing that alot of my WoW friends didn't seem to understand. MMORPG's like the one I described above have been around for 10 years. Ultima Online had all of this and more in it. Player housing, open pvp, player based ecomony, and now 10 years later MMORPGs have become this dumbed down version of what they could be.
Basically what i'm saying is WoW is very polished. Everything they have put in the game was very well done but for the love of god don't think that it's the most awesome thing ever. It's not. It lacks alot of the things that many old school mmorpg players miss. This is why it gets called a n00b mmorpg.
Wow doesn't have player housing nor can it ever have good player housing. The core landmass just can't support it. This might not seem like a big deal but if anyone has ever played a game that is totally free with where you can place your house/guild hall/ or even a player city of you have enough friends to make one. Then you understand how much this means. There can be warfare between rival cities, there is the fun of actually being apart of something like that, overall it just makes the game feel much more open ended.
Another thing that WoW doesn't do very well is allow for pvp to play a big role in the world. The idea of having 2 opposing sides limits the game in so many ways. If you leave it open pvp system then there are no set rules on who your enemy is. Lets say one guild within the game is known to stay in this one area of the world more than other. Lets say they stay there because of a large mine they get ore from. Now this guild doesn't own this really, atleast not by the game's rules, but if anyone comes into this area that guild is going to kill them because in an open pvp game anyone can kill anyone at anytime. Most games like this have laws and punishments for being a "murderer" this is a complicated situation so i'm not explaining it all in this post. Anyway, this allows for so much more than just mindlessly killing other players for absolutely no reason.
Also, WoW doesn't have a play ran economy and this takes alot away from the game also. If you don't know what a player based economy is, it's where nearly all of the items in the game are made and sold by players within the game. This leads to people actually having businesses in the game. This leads to "quests" being created by the players themselves. In SWG I would often have a crafter ask me to go find him some item and he'd pay me for it. This made the game more interesting because you actually had to know where to find something like this. It didn't matter if you went and looted it yourself or if you found someone who had one and bought it from him. Then the crafter would pay you for your work. WoW has nothing like this. If you combine the player based economy with Open PVP then you get a world with all kinds of possibilities. You could have someone that was really good at killing other players and getting items that they need to give to some crafter who was going to pay them for those items.
Here is another thing that alot of my WoW friends didn't seem to understand. MMORPG's like the one I described above have been around for 10 years. Ultima Online had all of this and more in it. Player housing, open pvp, player based ecomony, and now 10 years later MMORPGs have become this dumbed down version of what they could be.
Basically what i'm saying is WoW is very polished. Everything they have put in the game was very well done but for the love of god don't think that it's the most awesome thing ever. It's not. It lacks alot of the things that many old school mmorpg players miss. This is why it gets called a n00b mmorpg.
Comments
Sadly, this topic has been beaten to death more than any other game on this site. Hence the lack of posts.
Warcraft will die, and the beginning will be with WAR's release.
I stoped playing wow last week after been playing constantly since the end of closed beta...
and all i can say is This is not for a casual gamer....
If you want to succeed in wow you cant have a work/school or real life... I managed to get in to Naxx with my guild but it required to play atleast 7 hours/day every day of the week..
just my 2 cents
Currently playing: Some kind of random beta for some of the larger game productions..
It is a tired saying, but "WoW is good from level 1-59, but at 60 it can bore you to death if you don't love raiding"
BC will add a lot of content, and you then say, WoW is good from level 1-69, but at 70 it can bore you to death if you don't love raiding"
I think YOU think YOU know about MMORPG. But one thing you sure don't know and dont't understand is... It's not always about pushing the limits. It's about making a great game and I think that's what Blizzard did with World of Warcraft. Let me tell you something, I played (also) alot of games of ALL KIND in my life so far and I could not tell you one single game that I could've said " Woah, it game doesn't need improvement at all! It's perfect". There's over 6 million people playing WoW in this world and you're telling us it's a n00b game 'cause it's what? accessible?? to the NON-GEEKS?? Well it's about time that someone make an accessible MMORPG! This game is great... and I know most of the hardcore mmorpg geeks won't like it but that doesn't make it a n00b game or a bad game or anything like that. Hey nice post by the way but... you could spend your time like that with every single game in this world.
MMORPG addict since 1995.
As for the person that was telling me how I missed the point of wow. No I didn't. I even said everything in WoW was done as good as it could be. I agreed with you. Learn to understand peoples positions before you respond.
Link? or I will assume it's a rumor
Link? or I will assume it's a rumor
I believe he is talking about the arena which will be "factionless". Of course why you would play a WoW arena instead of a Guild Wars GvG is beyond me, the difference in diversity will be staggering.
It seems like you are asking for WoW to become more hard core in the old mmorpg way. Companies keep doing things in the old mold, but those games don't seem to sell.
WoW is easy to play, easy to learn, and fun. Blizzard threw out the old, complicated, make the players work for it, brutally punish the players for dying, mmorpg mold and became massively popular because of it. WoW stumbles in the end game because they copied the old mmorpg mold.
Player housing? No big deal. All you need is to put your excess items in a bank vault like in WoW.
Player run economy? Too many players become wankers, and charge ridiculous prices. Or they drive up prices, monopolise things so people are tempted to buy currency on the net( nah, that couldn't be could it?). Better that the gaming company handles and controls prices for consumeables as much as they can while still maintaining some kind of a player economy.
Open end unlimited pvp? Maybe WoW could open a special server that has that, and we could find out how popular that really is.
I could be wrong, but it looks like hard core games do not sell as well compared to WoW. Hard core can easily change from being fun to a boring chore, and players may not buy in to that any more. Honestly, some game companies need to hire fun police to oversee the devs and upper management. Those who like hard core have many current games to chose from, but how popular are they?
Even peace may be purchased at too high a price, and the only time you are completely safe is when you lie in the grave.
well compared to WoW. Hard core can easily change from being fun to a
boring chore, and players may not buy in to that any more"
Umm...actually wow wasn't the first one to do this. There hasn't been a game like UO made really since UO. It even changed to cater to this simple minded player. I don't want a game that is all hardcore. I want it to be interesting and open. I want it to have the ability to let you do more than just grind, kill npcs, quest, or pvp and I definitely don't want it to involved staged pve enviroments so that my group can run through them multiple times a week hoping to get some uber $w33t !00t. Now, you can tell me over and over again how popular wow is because it's a fact. Millions of people play it. That does not mean that it is a good game. It doesn't mean that at all.
"Those who like hard core have many current games to chose from, but how popular are they?" I was also wondering which games this might be??? Name some games besides EvE that are set up within the boundaries of what I said in my original post.
The sad thing is WoW'ish games will come out the winners here because that seems to be where the money is. So, stupid = rich now adays.
Someone on these boards made a funny post in regards to WoW. I cant find it again but they said something like " I'd rather play the same old stuff done well than just the same old stuff"
Everyone will have different ideas about what makes something hardcore, so that's probably a term I shoudn't use. Hard core to me means: corpse retrievals, long leveling times, open pvp, camping, long respawn timers on mobs, end game raiding that requires large guilds, amoung others I can't think of. When I see one or two, I can live with it, but too many together I put the hardcore label on it and don't buy.
If you have open pvp, I like what Jackilojohn describes.There are consequences for the ganker, that sounds good. Let someone be an outlaw if they want, but they should pay a price for it.
From what I have seen on this site, many people really liked Ultima Online. With so many fans out there, maybe an Ultima Online 2 will be made someday.
|-------------------WoW-------------------|
Ok, so there's my little chart. You take a game like EQ and scale it down to it's simple parts, perfect them, and then release WoW. You trim the over the top stuff and you have WoW.
Another example could be a game like SWG (as it was in it's original state). It had very complex crafting. You used mined resources to make components to make larger items. Each resource had its own set of stats. Using different resources resulted in a better or worse product. WoW ditched the stats and just made things generic. You mine gold (as an example) and it doesn't matter where you get it from, it's gold. You smelt it down to bar form and use it to make gold contacts. There's no stat to the gold contact and if there were, it would be the same for everyone. It's generic crafting.
Player housing is something you expect in sandbox games where people live second lives. WoW is all about the combat. Get gear. Get more gear. Get money. Get potions. Gather resources. Craft with resources. Fight using crafted items. That's the idea anyway.
My point is, I would hardly say WoW is missing anything. The game is exactly as they have designed. It doesn't do more than most MMO's. It definately does less than some MMO's, but what it does, as you said, it does very well. I used to play WoW. I played it for long enough to know it was fun. I have played many MMO's. As someone mentioned, if you're looking for a more open game, that's had plenty of time to mature, try Eve Online. The only drawback to eve is that it's all space based. You're always either a pod or a spacecraft. I need WORLD in my games! I need to see me running around somewhere! Enough about me...
so...
The economy actually works pretty well in that you don't as often get screwed by some punk as well as get away with taking advantage of the less knowledgable. Yeah I'm sure some people don't like this concept, but most people do.
Honestly name one other mmo that has as good pvp with housing? Some developers focus on what is fun, if you want a house then go play Oblivion. I'm sure they will start doing something like that after they make a good workable expansion and get pvp kicked off more. Like I heard about ships that guilds can buy with vendors on them for repair and the basics, but I'm sure that won't come to light for another year at least.
Ultima does in no shape or form compete with a game like WOW.
As much as you can find all the weaknesses of WOW, there are still 7 million subscribers for a reason, there's nothing better than it and I'm sure there will be nothing that comes close for quite some time.
You compare WoW to 2 Games UO and SWG those r the only 2 you are really describing oh and btw L2 has what your looking for.
Now UO housing has had how many problems?? apart from tearing to peices of beautifully designed enviroment which I for one am glad I can fully injoy every time I play WoW
Also The pvp system is stable and will become great after the expansion see when you describe your ideal pvp situation you are making the assumption that you will be in that great guild guarding that presumedly great mine while in reality chances are your on the outside and so now there is a big chunk of the game you CANT experince yea sure sounds fun.
Also WoWs economy is very much player run potions enchants etc. require mats many people farm mats just to have there enchanter friend put em too good use this happens constantly so I dont know what the hell you are talking about. So it seems you think players should have to rely on players to excel in the ideal MMO yea makes sense makes for a greater community and such o wait the hugest aspect of being level 60 and bettering your character from then on....RAIDING groups of players working together to get what they want.
So if your gonna explain why you dislike WoW do it logical dont just list a bunch of differences between WoW and UO....