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Why call it next gen?
random11
Member UncommonPosts: 765
5 Years ago this would have been decently interesting game... But I think calling it next gen now, is a mistake. This game introduces nothing that hasn't been done before. The basic concept and base ruleset are so EQish. I have no problem with the game itself (won't play it more than 1 month though), but this is not next gen. AoC or Darkfall, now they are truly next gen, not this.
Comments
EQ gameplay with WOW interface.
LOL I need something really uniqe for my money...
For the same reason a bar of soap that is just like the old bar of soap gets labled "new and improved."
Let me give you an example of an actual third generation feature. On every game board I have posted on since EQ, and that's a lot of them including Vanguard, I have said "look, you have a multi-player game with tons of quests that require multiple players -so why not a LFG tool that is quest specific?" That way you can hook up with players on that same quest and do it together. Wouldn't that help players meet each other? Doesn't that help community?
Finally, Blizzard is putting in that exact tool in its expansion (not because of me; it just finally dawned on someone else). If you are on a quest, say, Aces and Eights, you can click LFG and select Aces and Eights, to find another player who might want to join you. That's third generation. It's a marked improvement over what has gone before and to my knowledge no one else is doing it.
But over at Sigil, where they play lip service to the importance of community without actually doing anything to encourage it, they don't have that. Their idea of community is having you stand in a city and spam:
LFG for Aces and Eights
LFG for Aces and Eights
LFG for Aces and Eights
Are we having fun yet?
EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests
It's not next gen, it's the same gen as WoW.
The reason for this is that it started development alongside WoW, and thus doesn't build on it. It's not the next generation because it was started in the current generation.
It really is basically EQ. It's the EQ that they originally wanted to make when they created EQ in the first place.
"Because it's easier to nitpick something than to be constructive." -roach5000
You all talk as though you have played the game. And going by your comments I can assure you, you have not played the game. And if you have, then you don't know how to play the game.
While calling this game third gen is stretching it a bit... I agree that it is justified. The main thing you have to remember is how loosely that term can be thrown around. Look at the Camaro by Chevy. It had 4 generations. While the major difference between then is the body style changed to match other cars comming out that year, and some of the components were modified, interior was uogradedm etc.. No major state of the art changes such as nuetron pule harmonizers, or hyper drives.
Now look at Vanguard in those terms. Yes, there are some concepts that seem like WoW, some that look like EQ/EQ2. There are probablly concepts that were taken from every game out there, and modified. Now look at the charachter classes. Yes they are traditional but how they play is no where near EQ/EQ2, or WoW. In my opinion. and it is just my opinion, I am not asking anyone to bend their will to match mine, but these classes have a life of their own. Bards, they actually compose music!, Rogues, actually benifeit from stalking their prey, not just stealth and backstab. Necromancers, they don't just raise a variety of skeletons, although they can, but there main pet is an abomonation, which you can equip him with various parts to make him better at DPS, or better at tanking, etc..
Some of you discuss this game like it was developed over night, and you could have done better, some of you talk about this game as though you have already played it.
I think that should be justified as slander, you are trying to hurt the reputation, and the potential growth of a companies product. I think this game should develope a nice niche in the MMO community, and should be able to survive for a long time. I think if some of you die hard SOE/Vanguard haters got your heads out of the clouds and actually read more, or tried the game out when it is released, you would be impressed, at least satisfied.
This game is not going to be easy. Not everyone will be able to play a class to it's abilities. You will have to learn to play the class or perisih, no amatuer attempts.
Not so nice guy!
EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests
I would call this third generation. To me first wase UO, muds were pre-first hehe. EQ and DAOC were second generation due to the 3d, camera angle and first person elements.
In 3rd generation games we got flight (at our control) and housing. Vanguard will have this. Wow is not 3rd generation then by this definition but only second.
Some people consider EQ first generation. Thats fine, UO would then be pre, and housing and flight is in 2nd.
Calling it "next generation" I don't know about, but to me it is definately 3rd.
Venge Sunsoar
None of you folks disputing the next-gen claim have looked into it enough. The play mechanics are very innovative and well thought out and there is so much more. I urge you to look into it before talking out of your rectum.
To the O.P., what exactly, to you, makes Age of Conan and Darkfull "truly next gen"?
Ugh man, a quest lfg system is next gen? If that's what makes a game next gen, any company can make a next gen game.
And as far as Sigil not doing anything to promote community, that's horse hockey. The entire game is about inter-dependancy and community. You sorely need to read the FAQ.
I'll make it easier to understand:
WoW-Devs: d00d, t3h wow r0xx0rz t3h w0r1d li3k h4rd n s7uff
EQ/2-Devs: Oh my word, I think the World of Warcraft Massively Multiplayer Experience seamlessly transported our projects into the abyss of eternal low-subscriber-ordeal.
Brian McQuad: Well, I think I will provide gamers with a new and all adressing next generation fun game that involves very low tedium at very high excitement rates and offers next generation fun elements for every next generation fun gamer. Now won't that be fun, Bob? I just need someone to pay my bills....
Microsoft: Well, we read the design, script and, we, well, we rather not...
SoE: *robot voice* We are SoE. Potential cashcow detected, your design will be assimilated to our station pass collective. Resistance is futile.
Sigil: Erm, yes, like, well, ok, lets do it THAT way, I like tolly like that change, rite? Brian thinks its good n stuff...
Brian: I myself ...and Sigil Entertainment are about to create THE one and only next generation MMOG experience which will be great fun for EVERYone. Nevermind what the other guys from the sla... team say...
Straight?
Meridion
One thing that I would consider to be part of an MMO being considered next Gen is true Real Time Combat, and so far I have to see any MMO being developed that has or is going to be including a true real time combat system in its game. Bring it on down now.
Damn byotch dat aint no friggn moon fool, dat be a friggn space station byotch.
I can't comment on AoC or Darkfall because I really haven't checked out those games, however while I like what I am seeing in Vanguard, and there are some interesting things in the play mechanics it is not very different at all in what I have played before. Fun and interesting but not really different. But again I am in for the housing and flight, if it doesn't have these I'm not really interested. HZ kind of spoiled me that way, I like being able to fly whereever I want, and do whatever I want with my house ((don't actually know about the housing system yet, but I'm hoping). Can't say much more than that. EQ2 didn't have this, flight nor an adequate housing system that let me develop it so while my monk was interesting, my bard got boring, the game overall couldn't hold me.
Venge Sunsoar
Flying is only a real feature if its done right...
And the number of varieties you can screw it up are endless. Housing looks pretty nice in Vanguard, but it looks pretty nice in SWG too, so thats not nextgen. Flying isnt either as WoW is implementing it, DnL has it... its nowhere NEAR nextgen.
Next Generation stuff would be:
- Distinguishable Races after all, the combination class/race determines the playstyle. I mentioned that in another thread: Like a Spirit/Ghostrace that makes an excellent healer and not so excellent warrior, or a wood-being (like a small treant) that makes a good scout but a bad Wizard... stuff like that
- Dynamic Dungeons, like REALLY dynamic Dungeons, like, REALLY, yknow? Like, "omg, you stepped on a trap, the walls are closing in" or "hey, theres been no hallway over there 3 minutes ago" or "oh boy, the tide filled the lower floor, we gotta dive"
- Customizable loot, and I'm not talking about paint n stuff, I'm talking about sockets, about runes, about hilts for swords. Like guildwars, just much more tactical. Like "dude, I added that fire-rune to my crossbow, let me get the waterelemental". You could build a very nice PvP-punishment there, like the killed guy loses some of their gear upgrades but not the actual weapons.
- Dynamic diplomacy/politics, like different political systems in different world regions. Like travelling taxes and fees in a feudal realm, like enforced law in a dictatorship or enforced "no violence"-politics in a democracy. Including elections as a citizen n stuff...
I could go an with this, I have tons of ideas that would be not too hard to implement into a MMORPG that WOULD make the third generation difference. But no high-budget team will go this highly innovative way because its too risky, look at it from point blank range, thats it. Companies wanna make money, not fun games...
Meridion
EDIT: Concerning the race/class option. Doing things that are exclusively for your class would be fine as a start, its not nextgen (as SWG has it, BH bounty hunting, Smugglers smuggling)... but its better than "hey, i got a necro, im doing damage like everyone else, if i turn off effects im like any friggin other dmg dealer, same place, same tactic, spam em up"... More class exclusive stuff, guys: mezzing is fine, but its not even near the possibilities, transmute, silence, stun, slow, trap, ban, warp, debuff, dot, fdots... those tactical skills should take up your bar... not like damage 1, damage 2, more damage, even more damage, damage over time 1... or taunt, taunt2, tauntgroup, debuff group, damage1, damage2...
I'm thriving off again... you get my point though, huh?
EDIT2: Am i boring you? If im boring you just have to say so, right? Cause then I'll put a "hey dude, boring stuff coming up" in front of my posts.
Well, I wanted to add that Guildwars gives an excellent example of how tactical skills can really make an encounter more challenging, stuff like interrupting enemies, well, id just repeat, short version of edit 2: Guildwars=good example of tactical skils.
I agree, flying is great if it is done right. WoW will have flying in only one zone, not good enough for me. And yes it has been out for awhile, as well as good housing, making Vanguard a 3rd generation game for me, but not really adding anything new as far as the next generation as far as i'm concerned anyway (see my definition for details). So 3rd gen, yes, next gen, no.
Distinquishable races has been done before. Even EQ had it to a certain point (well pre-luclin anyway), Ogres made great tanks, gnomes didn't. You could do it but you you would be relying more on equipment than the other race. So while this has been done before, you are right it could be much better.
Customizable loot has been done a bit too. In HZ you could socket weapons and armor, and get different hilts and blades ((hmm now that I think of it, I know you could do the sockets, but never got my weaponsmith high enough for hte hilts but I think you still could). However it was a bit limited and not nearly what it could be.
I agree with all your other stuff. Next generation needs to add something new. Vanguard doesn't, but it does have two main things I like to see so qualifies for 3rd generation hehe.
Venge Sunsoar
I did not flame the game, I only asked about wether it truly is next gen, or not? Seems the question drew out the fanboys, whish that didn't happen, as neither fanboys ot haters can give true answers. I am no hater, I will actually try the game, play a month, then make my mind up definetly: until then, this game has issues with me.
AoC has next gen combat, very good introduction system, player skills count, active combat, not just stats (imho the perfect hybrid). PvE city building hasa purpose, and is interconnected with PvP keep building. Combat formation, mounted battle .. you know, the new stuff...
Darkfall has realtime combat, it has collision (as in the opposit of "i run through enemy players"). Darkfall has cities, and complex political system, with laws and whatnot for each city, complex economy.
In my standards Vanguard is nothing better than SWG pre-cu. But of course, pre-cu was way before his time ... SOE made sure, they'd make SWG get back in to his time ...
Game does have many new things, but it also has all the good stuff from other games. I dream of game that is cross of WoW and SWG.
It's not an SOE game, it's a Sigil game. So Conan is twitch combat you're saying? That's not next gen, twitch has been around since, well since video games were around.
Since this is the Vanguard forum, would you mind explaining in some detail about the combat in Conan? I have to get back to work, thanks in advance for your reply.
And just so you know, fans of a game are able to give true answers, just not zealots. I'm not a zealot, I'm a fan. Haters can only give you hate. I only bristle when people hate for no good reason.
It's not an SOE game, it's a Sigil game. So Conan is twitch combat you're saying? That's not next gen, twitch has been around since, well since video games were around.
So what is so next gen about he Vanguard combat? The whack a mole chains like EQ2 already has? Oh so next gen.
There is NOTHING next gen in this game except maybe fighting resources for crafting or fighting NPC's for diplomacy which is really what they boil down to.
You put on your "diplomacy" clothing and "fight" the NPC for better quests / information / faction. You put on your "crafting" clothing to fight that tree to fell it. Oh so next gen I can't wait......NOT
Please do read up on the Vanguard combat and how classes will interact with mobs. Their are some truly innovative play mechanics. I give this example when people ask, when playing a Ranger you can adjust how far you pull back the arrow for more speed or power, depending on your needs or play style. This is just one small aspect of one class and all the classes have all kinds of interesting ways to play.
Do look into it, unless you're just spreading hatred about a video game because you're just that sad. In that case, do get bent.