Originally posted by maputo no it is true, look at rappelz, L2, Silkroad, Archlord... all have the same graphics, same clunky POS point and click movement etc etc.
Having similar graphics and the same graphics isn't the same thing. And just because you don't like the Point and Click movement doesn't mean that no one else does. I don't really care for it either, but I don't delude myself into thinking that just becaues I don't like it that must mean that it is a POS.
-------------------------------- Currently Playing: Guild Wars 2 and Path of Exile
Originally posted by Souldrainer Originally posted by Gameloading I know, I know, I hear you think. there he goes again, with his korean fanboism.
I know its a pretty harsh statement, But I really think that it will be Korea that will push the genre forward,
Korean MMO's suck. All of them. In every way. The companies that have innovated MMO's and other RPG's have always been American. I see nothing that will even put a crack in this trend, let alone break it. Companies like Bioware, Bethesda, and Mythic have innovated in ways that Koren developers can't. Unless Korea bombs every other country in the world out of existence, their grind games will always suck ass! Innovative RPGs have always been American?
In 16th century Europe, traveling teams of players performed a form of improvisational theatre, with stock situations, stock characters and improvised dialogue.
Tolkien (the biggest inspiration for modern fantasy MMOs) was born in South Africa and his work was influenced by European folklore. C.S. Lewis (Narnia stuff) was Irish.
Britain had a part to play in the beginning of role-playing medieval reinactments, although much of the development was done in the US.
Dungeons and Dragons was made in the states.
Warhammer and GW titles were of UK origin.
MUDs (the first MMORPGs) were initiated in the university of Essex, England. The US produced the first non text-based MMORPGs (and RPGs).
Nintendo did some innovative stuff back in the day to introduce RPGs to the mass market.
The US introduced RPG-influenced tradeable card games.
Bioware is originally from Canada (though now they have another HQ in Austin, Texas). It's North American.
Funcom (Anarchy Online, AoC) has it's roots in Norway.
NCSoft made Lineage in 1998 and did what western MMOs couldn't, introduced MMOs to the Azn market. It also balanced and advanced PvP combat.
I'll hand you 50% of known RPG development has been in the US, but stop making overstatements. The States has had the most resources, and they're never gonna share them justly either (nor is anyone else sitting on gold mines, greed is a powerful state of mind). Nationalism is idiotic, drop it.
=_= Man you guys don't do research at all. The games being made aren't by all those clone guys like you typically see in the US from Korea, but by the companies that led innovation in Korea. There is a big difference on the level of creativity you can expect from the developers. Also if you are tired of Lineage 2 clones then stop playing them and grouping all mmos in Korea as the same. That is just ignorant, and don't post the mmo industry is stale now when you have your blinders on like some of you do.
Lets take RO2. The original RO had far more avatar customizability from simply the headgears then nearly every western game in existence. I hope this helps disprove the lack of avatar customizability. Its has many more features that Gameloading didn't mention. First its twitch based combat is only in PVP to make it a skill element since they noticed the routine behavior of PVP without twitch elements. The pvp twitch base is different then what you would expect. The damage is determinant on where you strike the opposing persons body. Toe shot does far less then a headshot. Second, it uses a completely revamped leveling system where each of the 3 races has its own leveling system. The only real class divisions you can think of are the 3 races themselves. But all 3 can be taken in many more directions then the very narrow class system. Third, it has a dynamic quest system. You can make choices that affect the outcome. The only released info on this was from a demo from thier most rescent showing in July where you get a quest from the villagers to kill a crab robot since the villagers are afraid of it. However, when you find the crab robot, you find out there is a different story to the situation and it is actually really nice. This is where the dynamic element comes into play. You can help the crab escape, or you can kill it for the prize. Fourth, they are developing new anti-cheat software based on what has been created before and completetly disecting the multitude of other cheat programs to develop an effective detorrent. They have a prototype working for thier japanese server that works. Fifth, they are using many more full body emotions then has ever been attempted in any mmo in order to create the community atmosphere. Since that is what RO is all about its a Community development mmo. Sixth, is all the next gen stuff. Physics, Beautiful graphics using HDRI lighting and Normal Mapping. Seventh, is music composed by the legendary composer Yokko Kanno. Eighth is the new siege system they are developing for PVP. Granted siege isn't anything new, but rescently the lead dev said he was making alot of improvements on it from information gathered from existing experience from siege combat. Ninth I still have to see on they are releasing more info on the game at GStar next month. But expect a good game out of Gravity. This is thier second mmo developed and released by them so it should be good considering how much they have made, and thier existing fanbase. Still its highly influnced by Manwa or Korean Comic Style. So the graphical theme might not be for you.
I really don't recommend SUN. They don't have the Balls to show a gameplay video, that usually says something about the game if the game can't speak for itself. From what I heard its not that great, just your typical clone type.
Granado Espada has that one main feature but there is alot more to it then just a pet system. Its about strategy and using your characters in different setups that offer gameplay in several avenues of the game. When you group its like an army, when you combat you don't have to rely on the bad response of your allies, or you can heavily rely on your allies to make a strong attack. The system incorporates several stances to change tactics for different situations. Then there is the appearance factor of being a guy with 2 hot chicks latched onto you. The style is different and good looking for stunning gameplay. I still don't have much details on the other mechanics of the game. Surely there is alot to the game then just combat since it cost so much money and Kim Hak Kyu is making it.
Here is why Asia is leading in innovation. MMO's have mostly failed in the US and Europe, while in Asia they have been a great success. So investors are more willing to pay money, and developers are more willing to take chances.
Eastern MMORPGs all look very good till they're released and people realize it's just more level grinding crap with a different skin.
Korean developers have poor quality control and speed through crap to push out stuff as fast as possible. You could say they have more themes than anyone else, but that doesn't make anything "next gen", if anything it shows lack of focus.
What greater tribute to free will than the power to question the highest of authority? What greater display of loyalty than blind faith? What greater gift than free will? What greater love than loyalty?
Originally posted by Awakened Eastern MMORPGs all look very good till they're released and people realize it's just more level grinding crap with a different skin. Korean developers have poor quality control and speed through crap to push out stuff as fast as possible. You could say they have more themes than anyone else, but that doesn't make anything "next gen", if anything it shows lack of focus.
As opposed to all the great high quality western MMO's????? Lets see where to start with all the great high quality, polished, superior western designed games released so far this year..........ok, last year.............
Poor quality control.....please, like DDO was complete. They are STILL doing damage control. Dark and Light? Quality control??? Face of Mankind???? Quality??? SWG - NGE???? Quality???? What was that one that disappeared, Irith Online? The list gets even BIGGER the further back you go. F*ck man, name me a quality controlled product that hasn't been damage controlled for its first year after launch aside from WoW or GW... you can't.
In fact the one game that did have a quality launch, Auto Assault (western dev team) was so poorly recieved that NCSoft (Asian publisher) actually WROTE IT OFF. Yes, they wrote it off as a loss of 10 million dollars. Nice. And the game got good reviews on top of it across the industry. All this says to me IMHO is that western MMO players wouldn't know a good game, western or Asian if it landed on their heads.
Originally posted by CleffyII =_= Man you guys don't do research at all. The games being made aren't by all those clone guys like you typically see in the US from Korea, but by the companies that led innovation in Korea. There is a big difference on the level of creativity you can expect from the developers. Also if you are tired of Lineage 2 clones then stop playing them and grouping all mmos in Korea as the same. That is just ignorant, and don't post the mmo industry is stale now when you have your blinders on like some of you do.
I'll agree I certainly didn't research the games Gameloading mentioned (although I have looked at Granado Espada and Aion before) but he's the one putting forward that eastern games will be the ones that move MMOs forward and gave examples of why and I felt the examples given didn't really back up what he was saying.
Originally posted by CleffyII Lets take RO2. The original RO had far more avatar customizability from simply the headgears then nearly every western game in existence. I hope this helps disprove the lack of avatar customizability. Its has many more features that Gameloading didn't mention. First its twitch based combat is only in PVP to make it a skill element since they noticed the routine behavior of PVP without twitch elements. The pvp twitch base is different then what you would expect. The damage is determinant on where you strike the opposing persons body. Toe shot does far less then a headshot. Second, it uses a completely revamped leveling system where each of the 3 races has its own leveling system. The only real class divisions you can think of are the 3 races themselves. But all 3 can be taken in many more directions then the very narrow class system. Third, it has a dynamic quest system. You can make choices that affect the outcome. The only released info on this was from a demo from thier most rescent showing in July where you get a quest from the villagers to kill a crab robot since the villagers are afraid of it. However, when you find the crab robot, you find out there is a different story to the situation and it is actually really nice. This is where the dynamic element comes into play. You can help the crab escape, or you can kill it for the prize. Fourth, they are developing new anti-cheat software based on what has been created before and completetly disecting the multitude of other cheat programs to develop an effective detorrent. They have a prototype working for thier japanese server that works. Fifth, they are using many more full body emotions then has ever been attempted in any mmo in order to create the community atmosphere. Since that is what RO is all about its a Community development mmo. Sixth, is all the next gen stuff. Physics, Beautiful graphics using HDRI lighting and Normal Mapping. Seventh, is music composed by the legendary composer Yokko Kanno. Eighth is the new siege system they are developing for PVP. Granted siege isn't anything new, but rescently the lead dev said he was making alot of improvements on it from information gathered from existing experience from siege combat. Ninth I still have to see on they are releasing more info on the game at GStar next month. But expect a good game out of Gravity. This is thier second mmo developed and released by them so it should be good considering how much they have made, and thier existing fanbase. Still its highly influnced by Manwa or Korean Comic Style. So the graphical theme might not be for you.
That's alot of intresting points on RO2 which is one of the games I knew nothing about. Some of it sounds very intresting. Dynamic quests are something MMOs need badly but RO2 isn't the only MMO saying they are adding them, Fallen Earth is another example. The change from a normal combat to twitchy for PvPer sounds intresting as well and that's from a carebear.
Originally posted by CleffyII Granado Espada has that one main feature but there is alot more to it then just a pet system. Its about strategy and using your characters in different setups that offer gameplay in several avenues of the game. When you group its like an army, when you combat you don't have to rely on the bad response of your allies, or you can heavily rely on your allies to make a strong attack. The system incorporates several stances to change tactics for different situations. Then there is the appearance factor of being a guy with 2 hot chicks latched onto you. The style is different and good looking for stunning gameplay. I still don't have much details on the other mechanics of the game. Surely there is alot to the game then just combat since it cost so much money and Kim Hak Kyu is making it.
Everything we know about it so far is just combat though. It looks entertaining but all it has really done is change the team building dynamic and tactics from having to be indivual players to one player controling more of it if they want. Their may be other features but we can't discuss how innovative for an MMO they might be when they aren't even annouced and the 'appearance factor of being a guy with 2 hot chicks latched onto you' means nothing to me.... that's heading towards the shallowest marketing tactics and shouldn't play any factor when talking about how innovative a game is and the amount being spent on it gurantee's nothing.
Originally posted by CleffyII Here is why Asia is leading in innovation. MMO's have mostly failed in the US and Europe, while in Asia they have been a great success. So investors are more willing to pay money, and developers are more willing to take chances.
I hope your right about them being more willing to take chances. The MMO market in Asia is certainly more varied which is bound to help but as of yet nothing that much better or innovative then what western companies make has arrived over here from Asia.
Originally posted by maputo Originally posted by Gameloading Originally posted by Souldrainer Originally posted by Gameloading I know, I know, I hear you think. there he goes again, with his korean fanboism.
I know its a pretty harsh statement, But I really think that it will be Korea that will push the genre forward,
Korean MMO's suck. All of them. In every way. The companies that have innovated MMO's and other RPG's have always been American. I see nothing that will even put a crack in this trend, let alone break it. Companies like Bioware, Bethesda, and Mythic have innovated in ways that Koren developers can't. Unless Korea bombs every other country in the world out of existence, their grind games will always suck ass! So by this I assume you played all 100+ korean MMO's?judging by the fact that you seem to think all of them are nothing but Grind, I will assume you didn't. Bioware and Bethesda didn't create any MMORPG, and Mythic didn't bring out anything new either. DAOC is Everquest with PVP slapped on it. If you have played Lineage II then you have played every korean mmo ever made ...... ever korean games just blow hard overall, not an opinion, fact. Thats far from the truth. Maple Story, Fairyland, TS Online, Ray City, CORDA,Granado Espada, Ragnarok 2 are NOTHING like Lineage 2. its not a fact.
Well, as long as the overwhelming majority of Asian games mainly consists of "Grind till your eyes bleed" I'll prefer the smaller Western games like AO, EVE or Spellborn. Shiny new graphics and twinkling new combat systems are no substitutes for immersive storylines and Non-Combat-Content.
Aion looks beautiful, but as long as I'm not convinced of his qualities besides beauty and flashy combat skills its no game I would pay for.
I do disagree with some of your statements: First, the statement japanese players aren't too fond of western MMO gameplay. One of the top MMO game's in Japan is Final Fantasy XI. A game that is clearly inspired by Everquest's western gameplay.
Also, Wow is doing good in Korea, for the reasons you stated. But, then how do you explain the failure's of Everquest & Everquest 2 in korea, which are both in many ways similair to World of Warcraft? or SWG, although not really like WoW, it does offer the things you mentioned.
Originally posted by Gameloading Don't worry about your english, its fine
I do disagree with some of your statements: First, the statement japanese players aren't too fond of western MMO gameplay. One of the top MMO game's in Japan is Final Fantasy XI. A game that is clearly inspired by Everquest's western gameplay.
Also, Wow is doing good in Korea, for the reasons you stated. But, then how do you explain the failure's of Everquest & Everquest 2 in korea, which are both in many ways similair to World of Warcraft? or SWG, although not really like WoW, it does offer the things you mentioned.
FF A game that is clearly inspired by EQ?
People dont SEE GAMEPLAY first hand. They see graphics first hand and what do asians see firsthand? Western graphics in eq/eq2. Bad graphics at that.
I dont see how you can compare eq or eq 2 (highly western) to WoW and FF which both "LEAN" towards soft anime graphics.
Wouldnt it be entirely possible that many Asians dont care for western graphics, much like many americans dont care for anime graphics?
what kind of variety? EQ at level 1 is the same at level 40 (including a few raids here and there). WoW, same story. what your doing at level 1 is the same at level 50. EQ2, another one. City of Heroes & Villains, same thing. repetive gameplay.Matrix online, again. repetive gameplay. Its not just eastern MMO's that have this problem.
Both the west and the east come out with new things in the next few years. However, I believe that the eastern MMO's have a bigger chance of success, and therfore, have a bigger chance to push the genre forward.
Originally posted by Deivi Originally posted by logangregor FF A game that is clearly inspired by EQ? I dont see how you can compare eq or eq 2 (highly western) to WoW and FF which both "LEAN" towards soft anime graphics.
I know FFXI graphics leave something to be desired (ToAU is a little better) but c'mon FF looks like the f'ing Sistine Chapel compred to WoW
Maybe you took misunderstood
I dont think FF's graphics are bad by any stretch of the immagination.
Gameloading was asking why EQ and EQ2 didnt do well in the east.I think a big factor was graphics. And Im not saying the QUALITY of graphics either. I think its more the STYLE of graphics that made WoW and Final Fantasy popular in the EAST. In the same respect the Western Graphics of EQ and EQ2 contributed to there demise in the east.
For anyone thats reading this, please dont take my comments out of context. I realize there are more factors to the success of a game than just graphics. But thats long drawn out discussion for another time.
Originally posted by logangregor Originally posted by Deivi Originally posted by logangregor FF A game that is clearly inspired by EQ? I dont see how you can compare eq or eq 2 (highly western) to WoW and FF which both "LEAN" towards soft anime graphics.
I know FFXI graphics leave something to be desired (ToAU is a little better) but c'mon FF looks like the f'ing Sistine Chapel compred to WoW
Maybe you took misunderstood
I dont think FF's graphics are bad by any stretch of the immagination.
Gameloading was asking why EQ and EQ2 didnt do well in the east.I think a big factor was graphics. And Im not saying the QUALITY of graphics either. I think its more the STYLE of graphics that made WoW and Final Fantasy popular in the EAST. In the same respect the Western Graphics of EQ and EQ2 contributed to there demise in the east.
For anyone thats reading this, please dont take my comments out of context. I realize there are more factors to the success of a game than just graphics. But thats long drawn out discussion for another time.
Well lets first stick to Japan. there is a big diffrence between Japan and China and Korea. I don't think FFXI is really anime graphics.
Originally posted by devian Who cares where the game was released from?
It depends on the company... and last I checked, Dark and Light was released by a France-based company. Thanks alot East!
......East = Asia
LOL, back when I went to school (before fire) we were actually taught there was the continent of "Eurasia".... so it's all "East" to me.
I hope some of the up and coming Korean games do actually break some new ground and provide some content that appeals to western audiences. I didn't realize they had made so many variances of MMO's (autos, sport's etc) but then again..I don't really care about those sorts of games.. I focus on fantasy and space themed MMO's..and so far...most Korean games (that I've played) have stayed with the original Lineage 1 model.
Of course, if there is over 100 games..then I've not scratched the surface... so I'll eagerly await the next new game that really gives me a new experience.... until then.. guess I'll play the same tired MMORPG's...
BTW...don't Koreans still go ga-ga over Starcraft? (or at least they did long past the games peak here in the US) We don't understand obsession like that here in the west.....
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
LOL, everyone should already know this. The East are the ones who ALWAYS push it to the next lvl. Al we westerners do is buy what they have. We don't have anything for games, sure back when it was fresh we had some good stuff but it didn't take long for Sony to buy it up.
Dont have time to read the whole thread so sorry if I repeat someone.
I dont think the east will be leading the next gen. It looks like the east is following the west. The west has gone through the tedious grind-games and now moving on towards less-grind-more-content type of game play. Obviously that technology-wise east is very strong, but the art is rather lacking (at least to the westerner). Once the style grows beyond manga/anime grinding style then we can talk about whos pushing the next gen. For now, i dont think manga/anime art nor grind is the next gen. Just my humble opinion.
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Currently Playing: Guild Wars 2 and Path of Exile
Quit: Eden Eternal, Wakfu, DDO, STO, DCUO, Sword 2, Atlantica Online, LOTRO, SWTOR, RIFT, Earthrise, FFXIV, RoM, Allods Online, GA,WAR,CO,V:SoH,POTBS,TR,COH/COV, WOW, DDO,AL, EQ, Eve, L2, AA, Mx0, SWG, SoR, AO, RFO, DAoC, and others.
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Innovative RPGs have always been American?
In 16th century Europe, traveling teams of players performed a form of improvisational theatre, with stock situations, stock characters and improvised dialogue.
Tolkien (the biggest inspiration for modern fantasy MMOs) was born in South Africa and his work was influenced by European folklore. C.S. Lewis (Narnia stuff) was Irish.
Britain had a part to play in the beginning of role-playing medieval reinactments, although much of the development was done in the US.
Dungeons and Dragons was made in the states.
Warhammer and GW titles were of UK origin.
MUDs (the first MMORPGs) were initiated in the university of Essex, England. The US produced the first non text-based MMORPGs (and RPGs).
Nintendo did some innovative stuff back in the day to introduce RPGs to the mass market.
The US introduced RPG-influenced tradeable card games.
Bioware is originally from Canada (though now they have another HQ in Austin, Texas). It's North American.
Funcom (Anarchy Online, AoC) has it's roots in Norway.
NCSoft made Lineage in 1998 and did what western MMOs couldn't, introduced MMOs to the Azn market. It also balanced and advanced PvP combat.
I'll hand you 50% of known RPG development has been in the US, but stop making overstatements. The States has had the most resources, and they're never gonna share them justly either (nor is anyone else sitting on gold mines, greed is a powerful state of mind). Nationalism is idiotic, drop it.
You and SnaKey must be kin because you both can make some truely idiotic statements.
I guess you don't consider Final Fantasy, Phantasy Star or any of the other Japanese RPGs to be innovative and you must think they all suck.
LOL.
--------------------------------
Currently Playing: Guild Wars 2 and Path of Exile
Quit: Eden Eternal, Wakfu, DDO, STO, DCUO, Sword 2, Atlantica Online, LOTRO, SWTOR, RIFT, Earthrise, FFXIV, RoM, Allods Online, GA,WAR,CO,V:SoH,POTBS,TR,COH/COV, WOW, DDO,AL, EQ, Eve, L2, AA, Mx0, SWG, SoR, AO, RFO, DAoC, and others.
www.twitter.com/mlwhitt
www.michaelwhitt.com
=_= Man you guys don't do research at all. The games being made aren't by all those clone guys like you typically see in the US from Korea, but by the companies that led innovation in Korea. There is a big difference on the level of creativity you can expect from the developers. Also if you are tired of Lineage 2 clones then stop playing them and grouping all mmos in Korea as the same. That is just ignorant, and don't post the mmo industry is stale now when you have your blinders on like some of you do.
Lets take RO2. The original RO had far more avatar customizability from simply the headgears then nearly every western game in existence. I hope this helps disprove the lack of avatar customizability. Its has many more features that Gameloading didn't mention. First its twitch based combat is only in PVP to make it a skill element since they noticed the routine behavior of PVP without twitch elements. The pvp twitch base is different then what you would expect. The damage is determinant on where you strike the opposing persons body. Toe shot does far less then a headshot. Second, it uses a completely revamped leveling system where each of the 3 races has its own leveling system. The only real class divisions you can think of are the 3 races themselves. But all 3 can be taken in many more directions then the very narrow class system. Third, it has a dynamic quest system. You can make choices that affect the outcome. The only released info on this was from a demo from thier most rescent showing in July where you get a quest from the villagers to kill a crab robot since the villagers are afraid of it. However, when you find the crab robot, you find out there is a different story to the situation and it is actually really nice. This is where the dynamic element comes into play. You can help the crab escape, or you can kill it for the prize. Fourth, they are developing new anti-cheat software based on what has been created before and completetly disecting the multitude of other cheat programs to develop an effective detorrent. They have a prototype working for thier japanese server that works. Fifth, they are using many more full body emotions then has ever been attempted in any mmo in order to create the community atmosphere. Since that is what RO is all about its a Community development mmo. Sixth, is all the next gen stuff. Physics, Beautiful graphics using HDRI lighting and Normal Mapping. Seventh, is music composed by the legendary composer Yokko Kanno. Eighth is the new siege system they are developing for PVP. Granted siege isn't anything new, but rescently the lead dev said he was making alot of improvements on it from information gathered from existing experience from siege combat. Ninth I still have to see on they are releasing more info on the game at GStar next month. But expect a good game out of Gravity. This is thier second mmo developed and released by them so it should be good considering how much they have made, and thier existing fanbase. Still its highly influnced by Manwa or Korean Comic Style. So the graphical theme might not be for you.
I really don't recommend SUN. They don't have the Balls to show a gameplay video, that usually says something about the game if the game can't speak for itself. From what I heard its not that great, just your typical clone type.
Granado Espada has that one main feature but there is alot more to it then just a pet system. Its about strategy and using your characters in different setups that offer gameplay in several avenues of the game. When you group its like an army, when you combat you don't have to rely on the bad response of your allies, or you can heavily rely on your allies to make a strong attack. The system incorporates several stances to change tactics for different situations. Then there is the appearance factor of being a guy with 2 hot chicks latched onto you. The style is different and good looking for stunning gameplay. I still don't have much details on the other mechanics of the game. Surely there is alot to the game then just combat since it cost so much money and Kim Hak Kyu is making it.
Here is why Asia is leading in innovation. MMO's have mostly failed in the US and Europe, while in Asia they have been a great success. So investors are more willing to pay money, and developers are more willing to take chances.
Eastern MMORPGs all look very good till they're released and people realize it's just more level grinding crap with a different skin.
Korean developers have poor quality control and speed through crap to push out stuff as fast as possible. You could say they have more themes than anyone else, but that doesn't make anything "next gen", if anything it shows lack of focus.
What greater tribute to free will than the power to question the highest of authority? What greater display of loyalty than blind faith? What greater gift than free will? What greater love than loyalty?
As opposed to all the great high quality western MMO's????? Lets see where to start with all the great high quality, polished, superior western designed games released so far this year..........ok, last year.............
Poor quality control.....please, like DDO was complete. They are STILL doing damage control. Dark and Light? Quality control??? Face of Mankind???? Quality??? SWG - NGE???? Quality???? What was that one that disappeared, Irith Online? The list gets even BIGGER the further back you go. F*ck man, name me a quality controlled product that hasn't been damage controlled for its first year after launch aside from WoW or GW... you can't.
In fact the one game that did have a quality launch, Auto Assault (western dev team) was so poorly recieved that NCSoft (Asian publisher) actually WROTE IT OFF. Yes, they wrote it off as a loss of 10 million dollars. Nice. And the game got good reviews on top of it across the industry. All this says to me IMHO is that western MMO players wouldn't know a good game, western or Asian if it landed on their heads.
I'll agree I certainly didn't research the games Gameloading mentioned (although I have looked at Granado Espada and Aion before) but he's the one putting forward that eastern games will be the ones that move MMOs forward and gave examples of why and I felt the examples given didn't really back up what he was saying.
That's alot of intresting points on RO2 which is one of the games I knew nothing about. Some of it sounds very intresting. Dynamic quests are something MMOs need badly but RO2 isn't the only MMO saying they are adding them, Fallen Earth is another example. The change from a normal combat to twitchy for PvPer sounds intresting as well and that's from a carebear.
Everything we know about it so far is just combat though. It looks entertaining but all it has really done is change the team building dynamic and tactics from having to be indivual players to one player controling more of it if they want. Their may be other features but we can't discuss how innovative for an MMO they might be when they aren't even annouced and the 'appearance factor of being a guy with 2 hot chicks latched onto you' means nothing to me.... that's heading towards the shallowest marketing tactics and shouldn't play any factor when talking about how innovative a game is and the amount being spent on it gurantee's nothing.
I hope your right about them being more willing to take chances. The MMO market in Asia is certainly more varied which is bound to help but as of yet nothing that much better or innovative then what western companies make has arrived over here from Asia.
So by this I assume you played all 100+ korean MMO's?judging by the fact that you seem to think all of them are nothing but Grind, I will assume you didn't. Bioware and Bethesda didn't create any MMORPG, and Mythic didn't bring out anything new either. DAOC is Everquest with PVP slapped on it.
If you have played Lineage II then you have played every korean mmo ever made ...... ever korean games just blow hard overall, not an opinion, fact.
Thats far from the truth. Maple Story, Fairyland, TS Online, Ray City, CORDA,Granado Espada, Ragnarok 2 are NOTHING like Lineage 2. its not a fact.
Well, as long as the overwhelming majority of Asian games mainly consists of "Grind till your eyes bleed" I'll prefer the smaller Western games like AO, EVE or Spellborn.
Shiny new graphics and twinkling new combat systems are no substitutes for immersive storylines and Non-Combat-Content.
Aion looks beautiful, but as long as I'm not convinced of his qualities besides beauty and flashy combat skills its no game I would pay for.
This is an interesting topic. I am a Korean and I've played many mmos from both eastern and western developers.
Personally I've never enjoyed playing eastern style mmos. So it was surprising to see many westerners give good
scores for eastern mmos including Korean mmos. I have to admit many Korean mmos gamers do enjoy eastern
oriented mmos but there are decent number of gamers who envy western mmos and only western mmos.
Those are who are sick of grinding with no level cap what so ever and wanting some kind of party experience.
WOW met those needs and was able appeal to Korean gamers. The only eastern gamers not wanting western
style mmos has got to be Japanese. They have a very closed aspect for most part (this is not a racial
statement!) and have love for pure Japanese style games. Different from Japanese are Korean and Chinese.
I guess Koreans and Chinese are closer to western standards. I don't think next gen mmos mean offering a
better gaming experience but mean having some kind of an appeal that standardize worldwide value.
My grammar is terrible, Im still studying it. A great language I must say.
I do disagree with some of your statements:
First, the statement japanese players aren't too fond of western MMO gameplay. One of the top MMO game's in Japan is Final Fantasy XI. A game that is clearly inspired by Everquest's western gameplay.
Also, Wow is doing good in Korea, for the reasons you stated. But, then how do you explain the failure's of Everquest & Everquest 2 in korea, which are both in many ways similair to World of Warcraft? or SWG, although not really like WoW, it does offer the things you mentioned.
I do like the style of games from the east but i have yet to paly one that i liked RF Online is a good example of this nice art style but crappy game.
Waht would be nice is to have a Manga style game where you had your own mech which could be upgraded for PvP now that would be fun.
FF A game that is clearly inspired by EQ?
People dont SEE GAMEPLAY first hand.
They see graphics first hand and what do asians see firsthand? Western graphics in eq/eq2. Bad graphics at that.
I dont see how you can compare eq or eq 2 (highly western) to WoW and FF which both "LEAN" towards soft anime graphics.
Wouldnt it be entirely possible that many Asians dont care for western graphics, much like many americans dont care for anime graphics?
Both the west and the east come out with new things in the next few years. However, I believe that the eastern MMO's have a bigger chance of success, and therfore, have a bigger chance to push the genre forward.
Maybe you took misunderstood
I dont think FF's graphics are bad by any stretch of the immagination.
Gameloading was asking why EQ and EQ2 didnt do well in the east.I think a big factor was graphics. And Im not saying the QUALITY of graphics either. I think its more the STYLE of graphics that made WoW and Final Fantasy popular in the EAST. In the same respect the Western Graphics of EQ and EQ2 contributed to there demise in the east.
For anyone thats reading this, please dont take my comments out of context. I realize there are more factors to the success of a game than just graphics. But thats long drawn out discussion for another time.
Maybe you took misunderstood
I dont think FF's graphics are bad by any stretch of the immagination.
Gameloading was asking why EQ and EQ2 didnt do well in the east.I think a big factor was graphics. And Im not saying the QUALITY of graphics either. I think its more the STYLE of graphics that made WoW and Final Fantasy popular in the EAST. In the same respect the Western Graphics of EQ and EQ2 contributed to there demise in the east.
For anyone thats reading this, please dont take my comments out of context. I realize there are more factors to the success of a game than just graphics. But thats long drawn out discussion for another time.
Well lets first stick to Japan. there is a big diffrence between Japan and China and Korea. I don't think FFXI is really anime graphics.
It depends on the company... and last I checked, Dark and Light was released by a France-based company. Thanks alot East!
LOL, back when I went to school (before fire) we were actually taught there was the continent of "Eurasia".... so it's all "East" to me.
I hope some of the up and coming Korean games do actually break some new ground and provide some content that appeals to western audiences. I didn't realize they had made so many variances of MMO's (autos, sport's etc) but then again..I don't really care about those sorts of games.. I focus on fantasy and space themed MMO's..and so far...most Korean games (that I've played) have stayed with the original Lineage 1 model.
Of course, if there is over 100 games..then I've not scratched the surface... so I'll eagerly await the next new game that really gives me a new experience.... until then.. guess I'll play the same tired MMORPG's...
BTW...don't Koreans still go ga-ga over Starcraft? (or at least they did long past the games peak here in the US) We don't understand obsession like that here in the west.....
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
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Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
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"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
ALWAYS push it to the next lvl. Al we westerners do is buy what
they have. We don't have anything for games, sure back when it
was fresh we had some good stuff but it didn't take long for Sony to
buy it up.
I dont think the east will be leading the next gen. It looks like the
east is following the west. The west has gone through the tedious
grind-games and now moving on towards less-grind-more-content type of
game play. Obviously that technology-wise east is very strong, but the
art is rather lacking (at least to the westerner). Once the style grows
beyond manga/anime grinding style then we can talk about whos pushing
the next gen. For now, i dont think manga/anime art nor grind is the
next gen. Just my humble opinion.
I am the type of player where I like to do everything and anything from time to time.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodomor - pre-WW2 genocide.