Depends on if you think of SOE as Western or Eastern. Though I guess it sort of transcends national boundaries in its dark glory, in any event they made the first MMOFPS. If RO2 and Huxley are Eastern, they're imitating PlanetSide and WWII Online. The latter of which, subtitled Battleground Europe, is pretty Western. According to you, Aion has "Western" controls. The most different and original sounding thing to me in your list is Granado Espada, iff NPCs aren't a pet system.
What is next gen gameplay?
Why are these games examples of it?
And what is going to make it next gen rather than the niches currently occupied by other niche games?
It seems like the bulk of this thread has been East vs West silliness without explaining what the heck we're talking about.
Originally posted by Gameloading How exactly is the east following the west?
What exactly makes the games you mentioned "Next-Gen".
Twitch based combat isn't next gen. Its been done and an important reason a lot of developers overlook that mode of gameplay is due to network latency more than anything else. a few thousand people on a server all using real time twitch based controls is pretty hard for even the most cutting edge hardware to handle.
The pet system in GE seems to be close or pretty much teh same as Gods & Heroes and they are close to release. Whats so special about that. It's definitely not next gen considering that most MMOs have a pet class.
Now "Dynamic quests". I'm not sure how they are goign to implement it and until I actually see how it works, I'm not going to make any comments on that one.
I'm really interseted in knowing what people mean when they say "Next Gen', because obviously, most of the games, both eastern and western, have nothing really that makes them truly something worth calling next-gen.
Originally posted by Awakened Eastern MMORPGs all look very good till they're released and people realize it's just more level grinding crap with a different skin. Korean developers have poor quality control and speed through crap to push out stuff as fast as possible. You could say they have more themes than anyone else, but that doesn't make anything "next gen", if anything it shows lack of focus.
As opposed to all the great high quality western MMO's????? Lets see where to start with all the great high quality, polished, superior western designed games released so far this year..........ok, last year.............
Poor quality control.....please, like DDO was complete. They are STILL doing damage control. Dark and Light? Quality control??? Face of Mankind???? Quality??? SWG - NGE???? Quality???? What was that one that disappeared, Irith Online? The list gets even BIGGER the further back you go. F*ck man, name me a quality controlled product that hasn't been damage controlled for its first year after launch aside from WoW or GW... you can't.
In fact the one game that did have a quality launch, Auto Assault (western dev team) was so poorly recieved that NCSoft (Asian publisher) actually WROTE IT OFF. Yes, they wrote it off as a loss of 10 million dollars. Nice. And the game got good reviews on top of it across the industry. All this says to me IMHO is that western MMO players wouldn't know a good game, western or Asian if it landed on their heads.
Did I say America is rising to the occasion? MMORPGS in general have been disappointing as of late. You can pick and choose problems and strengths from different games, but generally speaking korean games are of less quality. Generally speaking.
What greater tribute to free will than the power to question the highest of authority? What greater display of loyalty than blind faith? What greater gift than free will? What greater love than loyalty?
Originally posted by Darkentwo Originally posted by Gameloading How exactly is the east following the west?
What exactly makes the games you mentioned "Next-Gen".
Twitch based combat isn't next gen. Its been done and an important reason a lot of developers overlook that mode of gameplay is due to network latency more than anything else. a few thousand people on a server all using real time twitch based controls is pretty hard for even the most cutting edge hardware to handle.
The pet system in GE seems to be close or pretty much teh same as Gods & Heroes and they are close to release. Whats so special about that. It's definitely not next gen considering that most MMOs have a pet class.
Now "Dynamic quests". I'm not sure how they are goign to implement it and until I actually see how it works, I'm not going to make any comments on that one.
I'm really interseted in knowing what people mean when they say "Next Gen', because obviously, most of the games, both eastern and western, have nothing really that makes them truly something worth calling next-gen. Twitch based gameplay is sort of next gen in MMORPGs. at any rate, its never been done WELL before. for the Dynamic quest part, look up CleffyII's post.
Originally posted by Gameloading Originally posted by Darkentwo Originally posted by Gameloading How exactly is the east following the west?
What exactly makes the games you mentioned "Next-Gen".
Twitch based combat isn't next gen. Its been done and an important reason a lot of developers overlook that mode of gameplay is due to network latency more than anything else. a few thousand people on a server all using real time twitch based controls is pretty hard for even the most cutting edge hardware to handle.
The pet system in GE seems to be close or pretty much teh same as Gods & Heroes and they are close to release. Whats so special about that. It's definitely not next gen considering that most MMOs have a pet class.
Now "Dynamic quests". I'm not sure how they are goign to implement it and until I actually see how it works, I'm not going to make any comments on that one.
I'm really interseted in knowing what people mean when they say "Next Gen', because obviously, most of the games, both eastern and western, have nothing really that makes them truly something worth calling next-gen. Twitch based gameplay is sort of next gen in MMORPGs. at any rate, its never been done WELL before. for the Dynamic quest part, look up CleffyII's post.
Granado Espada doesn't have a pet system. Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't Planetside, twitch based? And In my opinion, its not really a next gen feature, its more of a different game mechanic.
So without getting into specific eastern games, what are the next-gen features you are alluding to?
Originally posted by Darkentwo Originally posted by Gameloading Originally posted by Darkentwo Originally posted by Gameloading How exactly is the east following the west?
What exactly makes the games you mentioned "Next-Gen".
Twitch based combat isn't next gen. Its been done and an important reason a lot of developers overlook that mode of gameplay is due to network latency more than anything else. a few thousand people on a server all using real time twitch based controls is pretty hard for even the most cutting edge hardware to handle.
The pet system in GE seems to be close or pretty much teh same as Gods & Heroes and they are close to release. Whats so special about that. It's definitely not next gen considering that most MMOs have a pet class.
Now "Dynamic quests". I'm not sure how they are goign to implement it and until I actually see how it works, I'm not going to make any comments on that one.
I'm really interseted in knowing what people mean when they say "Next Gen', because obviously, most of the games, both eastern and western, have nothing really that makes them truly something worth calling next-gen. Twitch based gameplay is sort of next gen in MMORPGs. at any rate, its never been done WELL before. for the Dynamic quest part, look up CleffyII's post.
Granado Espada doesn't have a pet system. Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't Planetside, twitch based? And In my opinion, its not really a next gen feature, its more of a different game mechanic.
So without getting into specific eastern games, what are the next-gen features you are alluding to? everybody is entitled to his opinion. Planetside is indeed twitch based, but Planetside is an MMOFPS. I consider games that really bring something new to the table in terms of gameplay Next generation, those that can push the genre forward.
everybody is entitled to his opinion. Planetside is indeed twitch based, but Planetside is an MMOFPS. I consider games that really bring something new to the table in terms of gameplay Next generation, those that can push the genre forward. Ok I see what you mean. But I'm still genuinly curious about what new features are available in upcoming eastern MMOs. You mentioned Twitch based combat, which to me is a bit iffy but still somethign to look forward to if done right. What else is there?
I just want to say, I'm not trying to be argumentative, I am actually quite intrigued by what could be new.
I'm still trying to nail what it is they are down. Are we talking about, like, KOTOR-ish party combat (minus pausing) in GE and KOTOR-ish decision tree quests in RO2? Thats what it sounds like from the descriptions.
For myself, I do like twitch games. If it is technologically possible, I like the idea of MMOFPS (though the hardware requirements to draw lots and lots of detailed people fighting seem horrific in the abstract). But I don't think of it as MMORPG. I think of it as MMOFPS. I aim, fire, the system adds recoil if there is any, and if my bullets intersect your position, you get hit. FPS. If I aim, fire, and the system rolls my attack against your def, then it'll be RPG to me.
*Sigh* And around we go... What do these games actually bring to the table that is genuinely new that you expect to be adopted widely? Twitch might. NPC parties might. Hopefully quests with multiple outcomes will. But any of these games could be like Everquest with twitch, or Everquest with parties, or Everquest with two outcome quests... Or they could be good, and end up niche. Or they could execute a couple features really well and do everything else badly.
Its like you're taking the ignorance about what these games will actually be and turning it into next gen. It's confusing.
Intel/AMD hasn't surpassed the technology currently in the PS3. The Cell processor is far superior to Intel and AMD processors. However, it was made by a collection of companies that is managed in the US with a global influence. The Cell processor currently in the PS3 could potentially put Microsoft into a bad position since Microsoft wants to stick to the X86 frame work while Linux is offering support for this very powerful processor. Also there is Rambus' XDR memory which is also very powerful, and Intel/AMD are hesitant to integrate it due to the failure of RD Ramm.
As far as technology. The US develops the best hardware and software in the world. There is no doubt about that. Most of which is developed using the trillions of dollars going into military development. However, its Korea and Japan that are leading the world in integrating the technology into thier national structure. The US is very bad at maintaining infrastructure. Alot is wasted in beuarocracy, and because many people want less government involvement, building the infrastructure is left to private corporations. The US government right now is incredibly detrimental to its own nation by encouraging outsourcing much of our nations money to other countries.
That aside there is alot of next-gen in the Korean mmo's. Huxley will be taking full advantage of the Unreal 3 engine. Other games coming out in the west don't have engines as comparable as the Unreal 3 engine. Its is an incredibly powerful engine that offers many choices, the only other engine I can think of that is just as powerful or a little more powerful is the Offset Engine. The graphics are definetly superb in Huxley. However, its development is a little concerning. I have heard very little about the game over the last 6 months and it is getting closer to release. Hopefully, they will have a playable version at GStar in November.
Also Granado Espada is definetly the game to look out for. Kim Hak Kyu has never developed a bomb before. It also is very successful and is rivaling WoW's subscription numbers. There must be something good there, but only time will tell. Hopefully the english beta will start by the end of the year. I have been excited about this game for a very long time.
If you really want to see what the hype is about with eastern games then look for coverage on GStar 2006 on November 9th. It is the premiere mmorpg gaming conference and has been said to be replacing what was e3. All the good koren mmo companies will be displaying thier mmos at this event as many are preparing to enter Open Beta service and a few are still looking for hosts in other countries.
Originally posted by Darkentwo Originally posted by Gameloading
everybody is entitled to his opinion. Planetside is indeed twitch based, but Planetside is an MMOFPS. I consider games that really bring something new to the table in terms of gameplay Next generation, those that can push the genre forward. Ok I see what you mean. But I'm still genuinly curious about what new features are available in upcoming eastern MMOs. You mentioned Twitch based combat, which to me is a bit iffy but still somethign to look forward to if done right. What else is there?
I just want to say, I'm not trying to be argumentative, I am actually quite intrigued by what could be new. Well I'll give you some example about Ragnarok II.
Personally, I find the Dynamic quest gameplay one of the most important features. the example of the quest with the crab CleffyII gave is a great example. After receiving the task to kill the crab, you find out that the crab isn't that bad after all. From there, you can make a choice: will you help the giant crab, or will you kill it and claim the prize? Choice is up to you.
Another intresting new feature is the ability to CHOSE the way you want to develop your character, depending on the race you pick.
"
Norman
The Norman race has a human appearance and is the race that was played in RO1. They use the job System, allowing them to switch their job at will and take advantage of specialty skills. The original appearance of the Norman, a very childish look, was re-designed for a more mature look. The name is likely a pun on the words "normal" and "human."
The official descriptions says that this race aims at "bored" gamers.
features:
Has a human appearance. Basically, the same race we played with in the first RO.
» Can "evolve" into a second job. We're expecting this to be similar as the secondary class system in the original RO: ie, the alcolyte evolving into a priest.
» Can make use of a job change system, in which there's a way to change your character's class several times over.
» Aimed to appeal to "bored"gamers (lol?)
Ellr
The Ellr are a half-breed, born between an interracial relationship between the Normans and the Elves. The power of an Ellr comes from the magical stones they possess, called "Stones of Ancestors". These stones influence their skills, and as such the Ellr has no professions or classes. They may only equip two stones at a time, however. The original model of the concept Ellr appeared in the chibi art style. It was later redesigned to appear more normal in proportions, although still very childlike.
The official descriptions says that this race aims at "Asian" type gamers.
features:
The half-breed of Normans and Dimagos; they basically look like "chibi" (super-deformed) elves.
» Posesses a unique spell-cast system.
» Uses various spells and tactics in battle.
» Aimed to appeal to Asian gamers.
Dimago
The Dimago are the rejected offspring of a relationship between the Colossus and Norman. They "fight with style" and are able to make use of dynamic skill trees. The characters are designed to be 7-8 heads tall in height (that of an average human.) This, compared to the Ellr which are 2~3 heads tall or the Normans which are 4~6 heads tall, means that the Dimago will be the tallest playable race in the game.
The official descriptions says that this race aims at "Western" gamers"
features:
» 7~8 heads tall
» They fight with style.
» Able to make use of dynamic skill trees.
» Aimed to appeal to Western gamers.
-taken from wikipedia & ragnarok-tale.net
The Dimago and Ellr have no class system. The Dimago use a skill branching system linked with a leveling system. The Ellr use a simple skill tree, and magic stones to amplify it (like materia).
The Norman use a Dynamic Job System. They can freely switch classes so if you want to play a different class you can just switch without making another toon. Then the skills you learned from other classes can be added to a 4X4 tile structure as support skills. Like Mages running around with LongSwords because they got the passive skill to use it as a Swordsman, and spend 3 tiles to equip it. Also the amount of tiles and the pattern of tiles it uses depends on how powerful the skill is. Such as there might be a really uber skill that checkerboards your 4x4 area, now you can only add in weak skills that take up 1 tile, or ones that can fit in the cracks.
Then there is also the equipment leveling system where your weapons and upper body armor level with you. When your equipment is a high enough level you can refine it into other equipment, or more powerful versions of the original. Also its stats increase the more powerful it becomes.
-props to CleffyII
There are more features, such as the castle sieges (and if they are anything like RO1, then they will be MASSIVE) but there isn't a whole lot of information released about those yet.
Also worth mentioning is that RO2 will give the choice to either Solo or group. there are many bosses that are suitable for groups. And, if its only slightly going the way RO1 did, there are NO RAID in Ragnarok 2
Granado Espada is very hard to explain, but trust me when I say that its not just a pet system. best thing I can give you is to try the game and see for yourself.
Gameloading thats not entirely true on Ragnarok Online 2's leveling system.
The Dimago and Ellr have no class system. The Dimago use a skill branching system linked with a leveling system. The Ellr use a simple skill tree, and magic stones to amplify it (like materia).
The Norman use a Dynamic Job System. They can freely switch classes so if you want to play a different class you can just switch without making another toon. Then the skills you learned from other classes can be added to a 4X4 tile structure as support skills. Like Mages running around with LongSwords because they got the passive skill to use it as a Swordsman, and spend 3 tiles to equip it. Also the amount of tiles and the pattern of tiles it uses depends on how powerful the skill is. Such as there might be a really uber skill that checkerboards your 4x4 area, now you can only add in weak skills that take up 1 tile, or ones that can fit in the cracks.
Then there is also the equipment leveling system where your weapons and upper body armor level with you. When your equipment is a high enough level you can refine it into other equipment, or more powerful versions of the original. Also its stats increase the more powerful it becomes.
These upcoming games including games like AOC and whatever, I would call them next-gen. Also, because it has been ~3-4 years too, since lineage2,FFXI,and whatever...
PS3 and xbox360 = next-gen consoles (eventhough PS3 is utilizing motion sensors too, I'm not so sure to what extent it'll be using it in comparison to Nintendo Wii...Not sure if Xbox360 having motion sensors, but doubt it's anywhere near Nintendo Wii capabilities even if there was )
Nintendo Wii = revolutionary (not super revolutionary, but revolutionary nonetheless)
So what I'm getting at is, these upcoming games I'd call next-gen because of time and alittle bit updated graphics/gameplay/whatever... but they're not revolutionary...
Gameloading, you spend too much time on the boards. I understand your problem, I once suffered the same addiction, but trust me, it's better to let it go. Spread your wings and fly...
PS. I don't think any particular MMORPG will be next-gen. Not like consoles which are drastic leaps forward every 5 or so years. It will happen suddly, over time, with minor innovative improvements each game. I think it will come from both sides of the earth. (Had to make a statement to stay on topic, lol)
What greater tribute to free will than the power to question the highest of authority? What greater display of loyalty than blind faith? What greater gift than free will? What greater love than loyalty?
The initial Next-Gen console games won't have much innovation in game-play, only graphical upgrades at first. For the Wii because its a new system so they need time to pan it out. The XBox360 hasn't really done anything innovative since it was released, just upgraded graphics. The PS3 will be the same thing for atleast a year. Only a few programmers in the world have a good knowledge of the capability of the Cell processor. Many really don't know how to abuse it yet since it was made by a very large mass of developers, so they are using it just for its processing power for now.
Originally posted by Awakened Gameloading, you spend too much time on the boards. I understand your problem, I once suffered the same addiction, but trust me, it's better to let it go. Spread your wings and fly... PS. I don't think any particular MMORPG will be next-gen. Not like consoles which are drastic leaps forward every 5 or so years. It will happen suddly, over time, with minor innovative improvements each game. I think it will come from both sides of the earth. (Had to make a statement to stay on topic, lol)
As my name implies, I am indeed a newb when in comes to MMo's. I have not yet played any western mmo and for that I can not say anything bad about it. For me, the reason why asian games do not appeal to most western gamers is because eastern and western gamers look for different things.
(correct me if im wrong)
For western gamers they always look for customization and diversity. They always want to be unique in everyway possible. They want "content" or quests that would make them busy or anything that will let them take a break from grind. And most western gamers wants the same old orcs wizards etc... (This is not a bad thing). They just refuse to play a game with no story that is immersive to them.
For eastern gamers appearance is not really what is most important. For me PVP isi the most important part of an MMO (I dont care about the rewards I just want it to be involving and I can only name ragnarok online). And because I love pvp, the equips are very improtant and I can grind pretty well for an equipment. We do not care about the quests that much although Its good to have many, I do not mind having few. I like the asian style graphics over the western graphics probably because I am an asian. Community is not also important to me since I am so used to jerks and immature 10 year old players (I play street basketball and I have no choice but to get used to it). And another reason why I like most asian games cause its more cheaper if not free compared to western games (since our country is poor then this will be my natural tendency).
So who will take mmo's to the next level? Well it depends on what aspect you are looking at. Of course I will say asians will dominate the western games because I look for games that has certain features that a western gamer could care less about.
Sorry for my bad english and pls feel free to correct me if im wrong.
Originally posted by Gameloading Originally posted by logangregor Originally posted by Deivi Originally posted by logangregor FF A game that is clearly inspired by EQ? I dont see how you can compare eq or eq 2 (highly western) to WoW and FF which both "LEAN" towards soft anime graphics.
I know FFXI graphics leave something to be desired (ToAU is a little better) but c'mon FF looks like the f'ing Sistine Chapel compred to WoW
Maybe you took misunderstood
I dont think FF's graphics are bad by any stretch of the immagination.
Gameloading was asking why EQ and EQ2 didnt do well in the east.I think a big factor was graphics. And Im not saying the QUALITY of graphics either. I think its more the STYLE of graphics that made WoW and Final Fantasy popular in the EAST. In the same respect the Western Graphics of EQ and EQ2 contributed to there demise in the east.
For anyone thats reading this, please dont take my comments out of context. I realize there are more factors to the success of a game than just graphics. But thats long drawn out discussion for another time.
Well lets first stick to Japan. there is a big diffrence between Japan and China and Korea. I don't think FFXI is really anime graphics.
Gameloading, you paying attention?
This is what I said
"I dont see how you can compare eq or eq 2 (highly western) to WoW and FF which both "LEAN" towards soft anime graphics."
LEAN LEAN LEAN LEAN
as in LEAN TOWARDS
as in if there was a SCALE of "western graphics" on one side and eastern graphics on the other, FINAL FANTASY AND WOW would LEAN towards the EASTERN side of the GRAPHICS scale.
Flamebait topic FTL
I shouldnt of even replied but first you called DAOC EQ with pvp.....then said you didnt understand why EQ and EQ2 didnt do well in Japan but WoW did. I told you why. But you ignored my post completely.
Oh and those game vids you put up in support of your argument....huxley was the only one that looked remotely good.
Originally posted by logangregor Originally posted by Gameloading Originally posted by logangregor Originally posted by Deivi Originally posted by logangregor FF A game that is clearly inspired by EQ? I dont see how you can compare eq or eq 2 (highly western) to WoW and FF which both "LEAN" towards soft anime graphics.
I know FFXI graphics leave something to be desired (ToAU is a little better) but c'mon FF looks like the f'ing Sistine Chapel compred to WoW
Maybe you took misunderstood
I dont think FF's graphics are bad by any stretch of the immagination.
Gameloading was asking why EQ and EQ2 didnt do well in the east.I think a big factor was graphics. And Im not saying the QUALITY of graphics either. I think its more the STYLE of graphics that made WoW and Final Fantasy popular in the EAST. In the same respect the Western Graphics of EQ and EQ2 contributed to there demise in the east.
For anyone thats reading this, please dont take my comments out of context. I realize there are more factors to the success of a game than just graphics. But thats long drawn out discussion for another time.
Well lets first stick to Japan. there is a big diffrence between Japan and China and Korea. I don't think FFXI is really anime graphics.
Gameloading, you paying attention?
This is what I said
"I dont see how you can compare eq or eq 2 (highly western) to WoW and FF which both "LEAN" towards soft anime graphics."
LEAN LEAN LEAN LEAN
as in LEAN TOWARDS
as in if there was a SCALE of "western graphics" on one side and eastern graphics on the other, FINAL FANTASY AND WOW would LEAN towards the EASTERN side of the GRAPHICS scale.
Flamebait topic FTL
I shouldnt of even replied but first you called DAOC EQ with pvp.....then said you didnt understand why EQ and EQ2 didnt do well in Japan but WoW did. I told you why. But you ignored my post completely.
Oh and those game vids you put up in support of your argument....huxley was the only one that looked remotely good.
Sianara egg boy
Dear sir.
I don't consider FFXI Anime. I don't even think FFXI LEANS towards anime graphics. there is absolutely NOTHING that points in the direction FFXI is even slighty manga/anime styled. Also WoW does NOT lean towards eastern style. Eastern style are used to MANGA style. WoW is NOT manga. its western cartoon style. Also, I never said WoW did good in Japan. In fact, Wow isn't doing that good in Japan. the top MMO's in Japan are Ragnarok Online, FFXI and Sukatto Golf Pangya
your arguement is flawed.
Also, DAOC IS in many ways similair to Everquest. go play both of them.
There is also nothing flamebait about this topic. I made this topic to get a good debate. Although I did know that it would receive flames from poorly informed eastern-games haters.
Comments
Depends on if you think of SOE as Western or Eastern. Though I guess it sort of transcends national boundaries in its dark glory, in any event they made the first MMOFPS. If RO2 and Huxley are Eastern, they're imitating PlanetSide and WWII Online. The latter of which, subtitled Battleground Europe, is pretty Western. According to you, Aion has "Western" controls. The most different and original sounding thing to me in your list is Granado Espada, iff NPCs aren't a pet system.
What is next gen gameplay?
Why are these games examples of it?
And what is going to make it next gen rather than the niches currently occupied by other niche games?
It seems like the bulk of this thread has been East vs West silliness without explaining what the heck we're talking about.
Twitch based combat isn't next gen. Its been done and an important reason a lot of developers overlook that mode of gameplay is due to network latency more than anything else. a few thousand people on a server all using real time twitch based controls is pretty hard for even the most cutting edge hardware to handle.
The pet system in GE seems to be close or pretty much teh same as Gods & Heroes and they are close to release. Whats so special about that. It's definitely not next gen considering that most MMOs have a pet class.
Now "Dynamic quests". I'm not sure how they are goign to implement it and until I actually see how it works, I'm not going to make any comments on that one.
I'm really interseted in knowing what people mean when they say "Next Gen', because obviously, most of the games, both eastern and western, have nothing really that makes them truly something worth calling next-gen.
As opposed to all the great high quality western MMO's????? Lets see where to start with all the great high quality, polished, superior western designed games released so far this year..........ok, last year.............
Poor quality control.....please, like DDO was complete. They are STILL doing damage control. Dark and Light? Quality control??? Face of Mankind???? Quality??? SWG - NGE???? Quality???? What was that one that disappeared, Irith Online? The list gets even BIGGER the further back you go. F*ck man, name me a quality controlled product that hasn't been damage controlled for its first year after launch aside from WoW or GW... you can't.
In fact the one game that did have a quality launch, Auto Assault (western dev team) was so poorly recieved that NCSoft (Asian publisher) actually WROTE IT OFF. Yes, they wrote it off as a loss of 10 million dollars. Nice. And the game got good reviews on top of it across the industry. All this says to me IMHO is that western MMO players wouldn't know a good game, western or Asian if it landed on their heads.
Did I say America is rising to the occasion? MMORPGS in general have been disappointing as of late. You can pick and choose problems and strengths from different games, but generally speaking korean games are of less quality. Generally speaking.
What greater tribute to free will than the power to question the highest of authority? What greater display of loyalty than blind faith? What greater gift than free will? What greater love than loyalty?
Twitch based combat isn't next gen. Its been done and an important reason a lot of developers overlook that mode of gameplay is due to network latency more than anything else. a few thousand people on a server all using real time twitch based controls is pretty hard for even the most cutting edge hardware to handle.
The pet system in GE seems to be close or pretty much teh same as Gods & Heroes and they are close to release. Whats so special about that. It's definitely not next gen considering that most MMOs have a pet class.
Now "Dynamic quests". I'm not sure how they are goign to implement it and until I actually see how it works, I'm not going to make any comments on that one.
I'm really interseted in knowing what people mean when they say "Next Gen', because obviously, most of the games, both eastern and western, have nothing really that makes them truly something worth calling next-gen.
Twitch based gameplay is sort of next gen in MMORPGs. at any rate, its never been done WELL before. for the Dynamic quest part, look up CleffyII's post.
Granado Espada doesn't have a pet system.
Twitch based combat isn't next gen. Its been done and an important reason a lot of developers overlook that mode of gameplay is due to network latency more than anything else. a few thousand people on a server all using real time twitch based controls is pretty hard for even the most cutting edge hardware to handle.
The pet system in GE seems to be close or pretty much teh same as Gods & Heroes and they are close to release. Whats so special about that. It's definitely not next gen considering that most MMOs have a pet class.
Now "Dynamic quests". I'm not sure how they are goign to implement it and until I actually see how it works, I'm not going to make any comments on that one.
I'm really interseted in knowing what people mean when they say "Next Gen', because obviously, most of the games, both eastern and western, have nothing really that makes them truly something worth calling next-gen.
Twitch based gameplay is sort of next gen in MMORPGs. at any rate, its never been done WELL before. for the Dynamic quest part, look up CleffyII's post.
Granado Espada doesn't have a pet system.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't Planetside, twitch based? And In my opinion, its not really a next gen feature, its more of a different game mechanic.
So without getting into specific eastern games, what are the next-gen features you are alluding to?
Twitch based combat isn't next gen. Its been done and an important reason a lot of developers overlook that mode of gameplay is due to network latency more than anything else. a few thousand people on a server all using real time twitch based controls is pretty hard for even the most cutting edge hardware to handle.
The pet system in GE seems to be close or pretty much teh same as Gods & Heroes and they are close to release. Whats so special about that. It's definitely not next gen considering that most MMOs have a pet class.
Now "Dynamic quests". I'm not sure how they are goign to implement it and until I actually see how it works, I'm not going to make any comments on that one.
I'm really interseted in knowing what people mean when they say "Next Gen', because obviously, most of the games, both eastern and western, have nothing really that makes them truly something worth calling next-gen.
Twitch based gameplay is sort of next gen in MMORPGs. at any rate, its never been done WELL before. for the Dynamic quest part, look up CleffyII's post.
Granado Espada doesn't have a pet system.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't Planetside, twitch based? And In my opinion, its not really a next gen feature, its more of a different game mechanic.
So without getting into specific eastern games, what are the next-gen features you are alluding to?
everybody is entitled to his opinion. Planetside is indeed twitch based, but Planetside is an MMOFPS. I consider games that really bring something new to the table in terms of gameplay Next generation, those that can push the genre forward.
everybody is entitled to his opinion. Planetside is indeed twitch based, but Planetside is an MMOFPS. I consider games that really bring something new to the table in terms of gameplay Next generation, those that can push the genre forward.
Ok I see what you mean. But I'm still genuinly curious about what new features are available in upcoming eastern MMOs. You mentioned Twitch based combat, which to me is a bit iffy but still somethign to look forward to if done right. What else is there?
I just want to say, I'm not trying to be argumentative, I am actually quite intrigued by what could be new.
I'm still trying to nail what it is they are down. Are we talking about, like, KOTOR-ish party combat (minus pausing) in GE and KOTOR-ish decision tree quests in RO2? Thats what it sounds like from the descriptions.
For myself, I do like twitch games. If it is technologically possible, I like the idea of MMOFPS (though the hardware requirements to draw lots and lots of detailed people fighting seem horrific in the abstract). But I don't think of it as MMORPG. I think of it as MMOFPS. I aim, fire, the system adds recoil if there is any, and if my bullets intersect your position, you get hit. FPS. If I aim, fire, and the system rolls my attack against your def, then it'll be RPG to me.
*Sigh* And around we go... What do these games actually bring to the table that is genuinely new that you expect to be adopted widely? Twitch might. NPC parties might. Hopefully quests with multiple outcomes will. But any of these games could be like Everquest with twitch, or Everquest with parties, or Everquest with two outcome quests... Or they could be good, and end up niche. Or they could execute a couple features really well and do everything else badly.
Its like you're taking the ignorance about what these games will actually be and turning it into next gen. It's confusing.
Intel/AMD hasn't surpassed the technology currently in the PS3. The Cell processor is far superior to Intel and AMD processors. However, it was made by a collection of companies that is managed in the US with a global influence. The Cell processor currently in the PS3 could potentially put Microsoft into a bad position since Microsoft wants to stick to the X86 frame work while Linux is offering support for this very powerful processor. Also there is Rambus' XDR memory which is also very powerful, and Intel/AMD are hesitant to integrate it due to the failure of RD Ramm.
As far as technology. The US develops the best hardware and software in the world. There is no doubt about that. Most of which is developed using the trillions of dollars going into military development. However, its Korea and Japan that are leading the world in integrating the technology into thier national structure. The US is very bad at maintaining infrastructure. Alot is wasted in beuarocracy, and because many people want less government involvement, building the infrastructure is left to private corporations. The US government right now is incredibly detrimental to its own nation by encouraging outsourcing much of our nations money to other countries.
That aside there is alot of next-gen in the Korean mmo's. Huxley will be taking full advantage of the Unreal 3 engine. Other games coming out in the west don't have engines as comparable as the Unreal 3 engine. Its is an incredibly powerful engine that offers many choices, the only other engine I can think of that is just as powerful or a little more powerful is the Offset Engine. The graphics are definetly superb in Huxley. However, its development is a little concerning. I have heard very little about the game over the last 6 months and it is getting closer to release. Hopefully, they will have a playable version at GStar in November.
Also Granado Espada is definetly the game to look out for. Kim Hak Kyu has never developed a bomb before. It also is very successful and is rivaling WoW's subscription numbers. There must be something good there, but only time will tell. Hopefully the english beta will start by the end of the year. I have been excited about this game for a very long time.
If you really want to see what the hype is about with eastern games then look for coverage on GStar 2006 on November 9th. It is the premiere mmorpg gaming conference and has been said to be replacing what was e3. All the good koren mmo companies will be displaying thier mmos at this event as many are preparing to enter Open Beta service and a few are still looking for hosts in other countries.
everybody is entitled to his opinion. Planetside is indeed twitch based, but Planetside is an MMOFPS. I consider games that really bring something new to the table in terms of gameplay Next generation, those that can push the genre forward.
Ok I see what you mean. But I'm still genuinly curious about what new features are available in upcoming eastern MMOs. You mentioned Twitch based combat, which to me is a bit iffy but still somethign to look forward to if done right. What else is there?
I just want to say, I'm not trying to be argumentative, I am actually quite intrigued by what could be new.
Well I'll give you some example about Ragnarok II.
Personally, I find the Dynamic quest gameplay one of the most important features. the example of the quest with the crab CleffyII gave is a great example. After receiving the task to kill the crab, you find out that the crab isn't that bad after all. From there, you can make a choice: will you help the giant crab, or will you kill it and claim the prize? Choice is up to you.
Another intresting new feature is the ability to CHOSE the way you want to develop your character, depending on the race you pick.
"
Norman
The Norman race has a human appearance and is the race that was played in RO1. They use the job System, allowing them to switch their job at will and take advantage of specialty skills. The original appearance of the Norman, a very childish look, was re-designed for a more mature look. The name is likely a pun on the words "normal" and "human."
The official descriptions says that this race aims at "bored" gamers.
features:
Has a human appearance. Basically, the same race we played with in the first RO.
» Can "evolve" into a second job. We're expecting this to be similar as the secondary class system in the original RO: ie, the alcolyte evolving into a priest.
» Can make use of a job change system, in which there's a way to change your character's class several times over.
» Aimed to appeal to "bored"gamers (lol?)
Ellr
The Ellr are a half-breed, born between an interracial relationship between the Normans and the Elves. The power of an Ellr comes from the magical stones they possess, called "Stones of Ancestors". These stones influence their skills, and as such the Ellr has no professions or classes. They may only equip two stones at a time, however. The original model of the concept Ellr appeared in the chibi art style. It was later redesigned to appear more normal in proportions, although still very childlike.
The official descriptions says that this race aims at "Asian" type gamers.
features:The half-breed of Normans and Dimagos; they basically look like "chibi" (super-deformed) elves.
» Posesses a unique spell-cast system.
» Uses various spells and tactics in battle.
» Aimed to appeal to Asian gamers.
Dimago
The Dimago are the rejected offspring of a relationship between the Colossus and Norman. They "fight with style" and are able to make use of dynamic skill trees. The characters are designed to be 7-8 heads tall in height (that of an average human.) This, compared to the Ellr which are 2~3 heads tall or the Normans which are 4~6 heads tall, means that the Dimago will be the tallest playable race in the game.
The official descriptions says that this race aims at "Western" gamers"
features:» 7~8 heads tall
» They fight with style.
» Able to make use of dynamic skill trees.
» Aimed to appeal to Western gamers.
-taken from wikipedia & ragnarok-tale.net
The Dimago and Ellr have no class system. The Dimago use a skill
branching system linked with a leveling system. The Ellr use a simple
skill tree, and magic stones to amplify it (like materia).
The Norman use a Dynamic Job System. They can freely switch classes
so if you want to play a different class you can just switch without
making another toon. Then the skills you learned from other classes
can be added to a 4X4 tile structure as support skills. Like Mages
running around with LongSwords because they got the passive skill to
use it as a Swordsman, and spend 3 tiles to equip it. Also the amount
of tiles and the pattern of tiles it uses depends on how powerful the
skill is. Such as there might be a really uber skill that
checkerboards your 4x4 area, now you can only add in weak skills that
take up 1 tile, or ones that can fit in the cracks.
Then there is also the equipment leveling system where your weapons
and upper body armor level with you. When your equipment is a high
enough level you can refine it into other equipment, or more powerful
versions of the original. Also its stats increase the more powerful it
becomes.
-props to CleffyII
There are more features, such as the castle sieges (and if they are anything like RO1, then they will be MASSIVE)but there isn't a whole lot of information released about those yet.
Also worth mentioning is that RO2 will give the choice to either Solo or group. there are many bosses that are suitable for groups. And, if its only slightly going the way RO1 did, there are NO RAID in Ragnarok 2
Look on your map... then look at a compass. East = Asia, Russia, Japan, South America etc. West = Americas, Canada, Mexico etc.
Look on your map... then look at a compass. East = Asia, Russia, Japan, South America etc. West = Americas, Canada, Mexico etc.
*sigh* when people speak of eastern MMO's, then they mean asian MMO's. and FYI, Europe is also considered the west. france = europe.
but that on a sidenote, back to the topic.
Gameloading thats not entirely true on Ragnarok Online 2's leveling system.
The Dimago and Ellr have no class system. The Dimago use a skill branching system linked with a leveling system. The Ellr use a simple skill tree, and magic stones to amplify it (like materia).
The Norman use a Dynamic Job System. They can freely switch classes so if you want to play a different class you can just switch without making another toon. Then the skills you learned from other classes can be added to a 4X4 tile structure as support skills. Like Mages running around with LongSwords because they got the passive skill to use it as a Swordsman, and spend 3 tiles to equip it. Also the amount of tiles and the pattern of tiles it uses depends on how powerful the skill is. Such as there might be a really uber skill that checkerboards your 4x4 area, now you can only add in weak skills that take up 1 tile, or ones that can fit in the cracks.
Then there is also the equipment leveling system where your weapons and upper body armor level with you. When your equipment is a high enough level you can refine it into other equipment, or more powerful versions of the original. Also its stats increase the more powerful it becomes.
Thats what I said, didn't I?
*goes back to check to make sure he typed the correct information*
-edit: I mixed up the information a bit, I used your reply to clear it up, as I'm not very good at organizing information
These upcoming games including games like AOC and whatever, I would call them next-gen. Also, because it has been ~3-4 years too, since lineage2,FFXI,and whatever...
PS3 and xbox360 = next-gen consoles (eventhough PS3 is utilizing motion sensors too, I'm not so sure to what extent it'll be using it in comparison to Nintendo Wii...Not sure if Xbox360 having motion sensors, but doubt it's anywhere near Nintendo Wii capabilities even if there was )
Nintendo Wii = revolutionary (not super revolutionary, but revolutionary nonetheless)
So what I'm getting at is, these upcoming games I'd call next-gen because of time and alittle bit updated graphics/gameplay/whatever... but they're not revolutionary...
Gameloading, you spend too much time on the boards. I understand your problem, I once suffered the same addiction, but trust me, it's better to let it go. Spread your wings and fly...
PS. I don't think any particular MMORPG will be next-gen. Not like consoles which are drastic leaps forward every 5 or so years. It will happen suddly, over time, with minor innovative improvements each game. I think it will come from both sides of the earth. (Had to make a statement to stay on topic, lol)
What greater tribute to free will than the power to question the highest of authority? What greater display of loyalty than blind faith? What greater gift than free will? What greater love than loyalty?
not yet played any western mmo and for that I can not say anything bad
about it. For me, the reason why asian games do not appeal to most
western gamers is because eastern and western gamers look for different
things.
(correct me if im wrong)
For western gamers they always look for customization and diversity.
They always want to be unique in everyway possible. They want "content"
or quests that would make them busy or anything that will let them take
a break from grind. And most western gamers wants the same old orcs
wizards etc... (This is not a bad thing). They just refuse to play a game with no story that is immersive to them.
For eastern gamers appearance is not really what is most important. For
me PVP isi the most important part of an MMO (I dont care about the
rewards I just want it to be involving and I can only name ragnarok
online). And because I love pvp, the equips are very improtant and I
can grind pretty well for an equipment. We do not care about the quests
that much although Its good to have many, I do not mind having few. I
like the asian style graphics over the western graphics probably
because I am an asian. Community is not also important to me since I am
so used to jerks and immature 10 year old players (I play street
basketball and I have no choice but to get used to it). And another
reason why I like most asian games cause its more cheaper if not free
compared to western games (since our country is poor then this will be
my natural tendency).
So who will take mmo's to the next level? Well it depends on what
aspect you are looking at. Of course I will say asians will dominate
the western games because I look for games that has certain features
that a western gamer could care less about.
Sorry for my bad english and pls feel free to correct me if im wrong.
Maybe you took misunderstood
I dont think FF's graphics are bad by any stretch of the immagination.
Gameloading was asking why EQ and EQ2 didnt do well in the east.I think a big factor was graphics. And Im not saying the QUALITY of graphics either. I think its more the STYLE of graphics that made WoW and Final Fantasy popular in the EAST. In the same respect the Western Graphics of EQ and EQ2 contributed to there demise in the east.
For anyone thats reading this, please dont take my comments out of context. I realize there are more factors to the success of a game than just graphics. But thats long drawn out discussion for another time.
Well lets first stick to Japan. there is a big diffrence between Japan and China and Korea. I don't think FFXI is really anime graphics.
Gameloading, you paying attention?
This is what I said
"I dont see how you can compare eq or eq 2 (highly western) to WoW and FF which both "LEAN" towards soft anime graphics."
LEAN LEAN LEAN LEAN
as in LEAN TOWARDS
as in if there was a SCALE of "western graphics" on one side and eastern graphics on the other, FINAL FANTASY AND WOW would LEAN towards the EASTERN side of the GRAPHICS scale.
Flamebait topic FTL
I shouldnt of even replied but first you called DAOC EQ with pvp.....then said you didnt understand why EQ and EQ2 didnt do well in Japan but WoW did. I told you why. But you ignored my post completely.
Oh and those game vids you put up in support of your argument....huxley was the only one that looked remotely good.
Sianara egg boy
I think all the element is already at large and the next-gen mmos would only organize them with different feel
and style. Maybe a game utilizing UO content backed up by Unreal 3 engine can be the next big thing who
knows but its just hard to imagine any new mmos that may offer revolutionary mmo gaming experience.
Its the same with all other genre. Take FPS games for example. See anything new other than better graphics,
sound, and the uglier faces of monsters that star in it? They are still fun to play and deserve good scores
among players but most of them haven't evolved much since Doom/Quake and Hallife(incl mods) lineup.
I am seeing many collaborations between fps and rpg lately but thats not going to make something totally
new. A different mixture with the same old elements just isn't going to make any big things happen.
I have to say its not the content that is going to take it to the next level but rather quality design and
programming of we've alreay got.
Maybe you took misunderstood
I dont think FF's graphics are bad by any stretch of the immagination.
Gameloading was asking why EQ and EQ2 didnt do well in the east.I think a big factor was graphics. And Im not saying the QUALITY of graphics either. I think its more the STYLE of graphics that made WoW and Final Fantasy popular in the EAST. In the same respect the Western Graphics of EQ and EQ2 contributed to there demise in the east.
For anyone thats reading this, please dont take my comments out of context. I realize there are more factors to the success of a game than just graphics. But thats long drawn out discussion for another time.
Well lets first stick to Japan. there is a big diffrence between Japan and China and Korea. I don't think FFXI is really anime graphics.
Gameloading, you paying attention?
This is what I said
"I dont see how you can compare eq or eq 2 (highly western) to WoW and FF which both "LEAN" towards soft anime graphics."
LEAN LEAN LEAN LEAN
as in LEAN TOWARDS
as in if there was a SCALE of "western graphics" on one side and eastern graphics on the other, FINAL FANTASY AND WOW would LEAN towards the EASTERN side of the GRAPHICS scale.
Flamebait topic FTL
I shouldnt of even replied but first you called DAOC EQ with pvp.....then said you didnt understand why EQ and EQ2 didnt do well in Japan but WoW did. I told you why. But you ignored my post completely.
Oh and those game vids you put up in support of your argument....huxley was the only one that looked remotely good.
Sianara egg boy
Dear sir.
I don't consider FFXI Anime. I don't even think FFXI LEANS towards anime graphics. there is absolutely NOTHING that points in the direction FFXI is even slighty manga/anime styled. Also WoW does NOT lean towards eastern style. Eastern style are used to MANGA style. WoW is NOT manga. its western cartoon style. Also, I never said WoW did good in Japan. In fact, Wow isn't doing that good in Japan. the top MMO's in Japan are Ragnarok Online, FFXI and Sukatto Golf Pangya
your arguement is flawed.
Also, DAOC IS in many ways similair to Everquest. go play both of them.
There is also nothing flamebait about this topic. I made this topic to get a good debate. Although I did know that it would receive flames from poorly informed eastern-games haters.