Originally posted by Temploiter I used to respect Obraik, and I would intentionally leave him out of my criticisms of fanbois on these forums that ruined the General Forums and turned it into a flame pit. But, I'm taking that back now. Since the split, he has been contrarian to the point of rude. Picking out symantics, ignoring the general point of threads, just to make a Pro-SOE stand. I'm disappointed, but not really surprised. I've even seen some genuine trolling from him lately. I'm tiring of this site in general, but watching the behavior of the pro-SOE people on this vet board, and the lack of moderator action on it compared to their specially protected safe-haven habitat, sickens me.
VERY well said. I agree whole heartedly. I have said this about Obraik for a while now. I am so glad others are starting to see what he really is.
I also agree that the moderators here are giving the proNGE fanbois WAAAAAAAY too much leway. And I also am fiding myself thinking that MMORPG.com is siding with $ONY and $OE. It is a shame because the number of people visiting this site that are SWG Refugees outnumber the pro SOE people like 10 to 1.
Originally posted by Temploiter I used to respect Obraik, and I would intentionally leave him out of my criticisms of fanbois on these forums that ruined the General Forums and turned it into a flame pit. But, I'm taking that back now. Since the split, he has been contrarian to the point of rude. Picking out symantics, ignoring the general point of threads, just to make a Pro-SOE stand. I'm disappointed, but not really surprised. I've even seen some genuine trolling from him lately. I'm tiring of this site in general, but watching the behavior of the pro-SOE people on this vet board, and the lack of moderator action on it compared to their specially protected safe-haven habitat, sickens me.
And you are different in what way? You are the same as everyone else here, you are no different, you go off topic as everyone else has the habit too. You troll and even act as a thread police as everyone else is in the habit of.
To make the accusation that the other forum is under some sort of mythical protection by the Mods is utter foolishness. In that forum there are posters who are anti SWG and anti SOE trolling about on a regular basis, just the same as ones here in these forums troll around. If you are truly growing tired of this site, then leave, if not then stay. But do not try and spew forth BS, taking the attitude that you are different. Bring it on down now.
Damn byotch dat aint no friggn moon fool, dat be a friggn space station byotch.
Originally posted by Wildcat84 I think my earlier estimates of SWG's sub decline progression was too optimistic (in SOE's favor) based on my experience looking around the 5 so-called "medium" population servers over the last 4 days. I quit playing the game back in early September, and the population has seen another big drop since even then.
Based on what I saw, there couldn't have been 150-250 concurrent players on each of those 5 servers. ANd that is being generous, as I couldn't head count more than 30 after going to all the main gathering areas. Extrapolating to the other 20 "light and very light" servers, my guess is that I'd be overly generous to say they have an average of 125-150 concurrent users.
These are estimates that, IMHO are overly generous.
All this was at peak time on Saturday night.
So, 20 x 150= 3000 concurrent players on the light servers.
5 x 250= 1250 concurrent players on the medium servers.
That is a total of about 4250 concurrent players at peak time on a weekend. Formulae for MMO's state that between 10 and 20% of your total sub base will be logged in at any given peak time.
If 4250 was 10% of SWG's total sub base, then they have about 42,500 subs left.
If 4250 was 20% of SWG's total sub base, then they have about 21,250 subs left.
Keep in mind that my observation was done at peak time during a time where they have an open free vet trial, AND a free open to everyone 14 day trial in which you can now leave the station, and that I extrapolated my estimates ABOVE what I actually think were present. On Bloodfin, for example, a server I played on for 2+ years, I know the habits of the guilds and populations, having only recently quit. I went to all those places, and I could not see more than 30 people, yet I calculated the concurrent users at 250.
With this being the case, it's pretty easy to see why they suddenly offered the vet trial and opened the new player trial to the whole game (not just the station).
And it's also easy to see why you are seeing irrational "F-YOU" rants by ChrisCao, Helios posting in a drunken stupor, and the normally mild mannered TH acting testy and "throwing forum posters out the airlock" as he's stated.
They are about to get axed, en masse, and they know it. This upcoming publish, the boxed set, and the holiday season is it.
I like my chances of winning the Powerball better than theirs.
Hmmm. I've never participated in these threads about guestimating the number of SWG subscribers, cause it ususally becomes flamewars between the Pro-NGE'ers(poor bastards), and the "disgruntled vets". But as they say there is a first for everything, so here is my opinion on the subject.
Given the state of the game, SOE's poor relationship with the playerbase, and the history of the game so far, i would assume that the actually percentage of the subscribers playing the game is lower than 10-20%. I believe that many subscribers have active accounts without even playing the game. So my guess would be about 5% of the subscribers are actually playing. That would mean according to your calculations that the number of subscribers might be higher if im guessing right here. The sad part for me isnt really about the subscribers, but the small number of people that actually play the game. And the numbers you are presenting here tells me that SWG is pretty much doomed.
With the Station pass the subscriber base is definately higher. I had one for about 6 months just to play EQ2 and the Matrix Online, but I was also considered an SWG subscriber and never played it. So They can probably say there are 100000 subscribers or whatever number they want and it be true. That doesnt mean anyone is playing so the question is if noone is playing but the game has subscribers how long will it last.
Originally posted by Kaairn One thing I have noticed in this numbers thread is that Station access isn't mentioned, which SOE would definately use to boost their subscriptions... Personally, I believe that in total, this game in total has 70-100k subscribers, but that number does include station access... last I heard, the amount of people on station access was 50k+, showing as has been said before in this thread, how badly SWG is performing, and even worse, the $25 that the station access costs per month has to be split between the running costs of all the Station access games, while (you'd hope) that the single game subscriber's money is spent on that particular game.
I doubt station access is that high.
While they may use that to pad the numbers, the beancounters won't let them get away with counting that $25 x all their games as revenue. Neither will the Securities and Exchange Commission
Station access is not enough of a factor here to matter.
It is the only thing that matters,If they want to say the subscribers are any number over 10000.
According to whatever that Lucasfilm magazine is (I don't remember the name), SOE is paying a yearly licensing fee. They have to pay that until their contract expires regardless wether or not the game is running. The servers will be merged early next year and they will continue the game with less than the ten people who are currently working oon it to at least offset the loss they will incur from the licensing fee alone.
There is also the major PR hit they would take by closing a Star Wars MMORPG because it was losing money. That, in itself, could inflict serious harm to SOE as a company. The reason MxO and Planetside are still running is that they feel it would damage their company. Star Wars has an extremely larger profile than those and it would not escape the notice of both the media (gaming and otherwise) and potential investors (a majority of companies don't use their own money to develop new products or expand opperations).
The Licencing fee for the Star Wars name(not including their share of subscription share and box share) was 10 million $ a year, accordong to the..hmm, whats it's name..."Star Wars Insider"? Meh, I never remember the name of the magazine.
It also listed the licencing fee for Hasbro(for action figures and like) at 25 million.
Can't remember the other, but they only listed a few of the many companies that produce Star Wars stuff under licence...But just the few that were listed ammounted in 200+ millions
Originally posted by wolfmann Originally posted by Obee Originally posted by Morlan Originally posted by Wildcat84 *snipped*
*snipped* According to whatever that Lucasfilm magazine is (I don't remember the name), SOE is paying a yearly licensing fee. They have to pay that until their contract expires regardless wether or not the game is running. The servers will be merged early next year and they will continue the game with less than the ten people who are currently working oon it to at least offset the loss they will incur from the licensing fee alone.
There is also the major PR hit they would take by closing a Star Wars MMORPG because it was losing money. That, in itself, could inflict serious harm to SOE as a company. The reason MxO and Planetside are still running is that they feel it would damage their company. Star Wars has an extremely larger profile than those and it would not escape the notice of both the media (gaming and otherwise) and potential investors (a majority of companies don't use their own money to develop new products or expand opperations).
The Licencing fee for the Star Wars name(not including their share of subscription share and box share) was 10 million $ a year, accordong to the..hmm, whats it's name..."Star Wars Insider"? Meh, I never remember the name of the magazine.
It also listed the licencing fee for Hasbro(for action figures and like) at 25 million.
Can't remember the other, but they only listed a few of the many companies that produce Star Wars stuff under licence...But just the few that were listed ammounted in 200+ millions
Yeah that was it. That $10 million a year has to be paid wether the game is running or not. By continuing to run the game on the skeleton crew they currently have, and after the impending server merges (it will become the priority once the 'complete' box flops), the income from even the handfull of players they have left will help reduce the fee. Even if it isn't enough to pay the licensing fee, the revenue form the handfull of subscibers they have left is still more than nothing. Though they don't seem to realize the negative PR the game (and the people who work on it) has, and will continue to, generate hurts their company as a whole and not just SWG.
Originally posted by Wildcat84 I never said a lot came back, just some old names from pre-NGE did, for a brief time, and left. The overall population has been down and going lower, ever since the CU came out.
Let's just say that May-June was the time when they were losing the fewest subscribers.
The current time is probably another period of least loss, because of all the free trials, and the fact that the lower the water level in the leaking bucket, the slower the drip.
The bottom line: The population I personally witnessed in the game isn't enough to adequately support 3 servers, much less 25. That is WAY the hell down from CU and Pre-CU.
For there to have been a peak, people had to have came back. However, back then you were saying basically what you're saying now in this post and when I posted that I was noticing more people around you (and others) started a 50 page thread on how I was wrong
O your funny.... I saw your comment on the suck boards....
TH watches me like a hawk to put out my fires on a constant basis.... as you saw today.
See the difference between you and me is that no matter what you say or try to, people do know and see what is really going on.
You can try to fluff them all you want but they are not that stupid... they just arn't.
Your comments are made in "worry", if half of what I said or others said did not bother you , you would not post.
So far as I said there it's isk 11 -- SOE devs 0 -- 11 months of me being right and 0 months of them being successful.
I can back mine up... can you back yours up?
Worry about you? Lol, you think too highly of yourself
By that definition, I must have you worried since you came here posting about it in a thread that has nothing to do with what you're talking about...
Yes but you do watch... I like that. Again.... can your back up your success with anything?
Show me the NGE was any kind of a success.
I don't watch you I was going through Dev Tracker, which is how I came to the thread that I replied to you in. If TH hadn't posted in the thread, I wouldn't have found it.
Originally posted by Obee Originally posted by wolfmann Originally posted by Obee Originally posted by Morlan Originally posted by Wildcat84 *snipped*
*snipped* According to whatever that Lucasfilm magazine is (I don't remember the name), SOE is paying a yearly licensing fee. They have to pay that until their contract expires regardless wether or not the game is running. The servers will be merged early next year and they will continue the game with less than the ten people who are currently working oon it to at least offset the loss they will incur from the licensing fee alone.
There is also the major PR hit they would take by closing a Star Wars MMORPG because it was losing money. That, in itself, could inflict serious harm to SOE as a company. The reason MxO and Planetside are still running is that they feel it would damage their company. Star Wars has an extremely larger profile than those and it would not escape the notice of both the media (gaming and otherwise) and potential investors (a majority of companies don't use their own money to develop new products or expand opperations).
The Licencing fee for the Star Wars name(not including their share of subscription share and box share) was 10 million $ a year, accordong to the..hmm, whats it's name..."Star Wars Insider"? Meh, I never remember the name of the magazine.
It also listed the licencing fee for Hasbro(for action figures and like) at 25 million.
Can't remember the other, but they only listed a few of the many companies that produce Star Wars stuff under licence...But just the few that were listed ammounted in 200+ millions
Yeah that was it. That $10 million a year has to be paid wether the game is running or not. By continuing to run the game on the skeleton crew they currently have, and after the impending server merges (it will become the priority once the 'complete' box flops), the income from even the handfull of players they have left will help reduce the fee. Even if it isn't enough to pay the licensing fee, the revenue form the handfull of subscibers they have left is still more than nothing. Though they don't seem to realize the negative PR the game (and the people who work on it) has, and will continue to, generate hurts their company as a whole and not just SWG.
Interesting. If they were paying LEC 10 mil a year, with 200K subs they were getting around 35 million a year in gross revenue.
With 40K (which is what I think is the most they have now) they are bleeding red ink faster than SWG is bleeding subs.
Comments
VERY well said. I agree whole heartedly. I have said this about Obraik for a while now. I am so glad others are starting to see what he really is.
I also agree that the moderators here are giving the proNGE fanbois WAAAAAAAY too much leway. And I also am fiding myself thinking that MMORPG.com is siding with $ONY and $OE. It is a shame because the number of people visiting this site that are SWG Refugees outnumber the pro SOE people like 10 to 1.
Suppose he could have had his account hacked too...
And you are different in what way? You are the same as everyone else here, you are no different, you go off topic as everyone else has the habit too. You troll and even act as a thread police as everyone else is in the habit of.
To make the accusation that the other forum is under some sort of mythical protection by the Mods is utter foolishness. In that forum there are posters who are anti SWG and anti SOE trolling about on a regular basis, just the same as ones here in these forums troll around. If you are truly growing tired of this site, then leave, if not then stay. But do not try and spew forth BS, taking the attitude that you are different. Bring it on down now.
Damn byotch dat aint no friggn moon fool, dat be a friggn space station byotch.
In what way is that trolling, in relation to the other posts that have been posted? Bring it on down now.
Damn byotch dat aint no friggn moon fool, dat be a friggn space station byotch.
Hmmm. I've never participated in these threads about guestimating the number of SWG subscribers, cause it ususally becomes flamewars between the Pro-NGE'ers(poor bastards), and the "disgruntled vets". But as they say there is a first for everything, so here is my opinion on the subject.
Given the state of the game, SOE's poor relationship with the playerbase, and the history of the game so far, i would assume that the actually percentage of the subscribers playing the game is lower than 10-20%. I believe that many subscribers have active accounts without even playing the game. So my guess would be about 5% of the subscribers are actually playing. That would mean according to your calculations that the number of subscribers might be higher if im guessing right here. The sad part for me isnt really about the subscribers, but the small number of people that actually play the game. And the numbers you are presenting here tells me that SWG is pretty much doomed.
With the Station pass the subscriber base is definately higher. I had one for about 6 months just to play EQ2 and the Matrix Online, but I was also considered an SWG subscriber and never played it. So They can probably say there are 100000 subscribers or whatever number they want and it be true. That doesnt mean anyone is playing so the question is if noone is playing but the game has subscribers how long will it last.
While they may use that to pad the numbers, the beancounters won't let them get away with counting that $25 x all their games as revenue. Neither will the Securities and Exchange Commission
Station access is not enough of a factor here to matter.
It is the only thing that matters,If they want to say the subscribers are any number over 10000.
According to whatever that Lucasfilm magazine is (I don't remember the name), SOE is paying a yearly licensing fee. They have to pay that until their contract expires regardless wether or not the game is running. The servers will be merged early next year and they will continue the game with less than the ten people who are currently working oon it to at least offset the loss they will incur from the licensing fee alone.
There is also the major PR hit they would take by closing a Star Wars MMORPG because it was losing money. That, in itself, could inflict serious harm to SOE as a company. The reason MxO and Planetside are still running is that they feel it would damage their company. Star Wars has an extremely larger profile than those and it would not escape the notice of both the media (gaming and otherwise) and potential investors (a majority of companies don't use their own money to develop new products or expand opperations).
The Licencing fee for the Star Wars name(not including their share of subscription share and box share) was 10 million $ a year, accordong to the..hmm, whats it's name..."Star Wars Insider"? Meh, I never remember the name of the magazine.
It also listed the licencing fee for Hasbro(for action figures and like) at 25 million.
Can't remember the other, but they only listed a few of the many companies that produce Star Wars stuff under licence...But just the few that were listed ammounted in 200+ millions
According
to whatever that Lucasfilm magazine is (I don't remember the name), SOE
is paying a yearly licensing fee. They have to pay that until
their contract expires regardless wether or not the game is
running. The servers will be merged early next year and they will
continue the game with less than the ten people who are currently
working oon it to at least offset the loss they will incur from the
licensing fee alone.
There is also the major PR hit they would
take by closing a Star Wars MMORPG because it was losing
money. That, in itself, could inflict serious harm to SOE
as a company. The reason MxO and Planetside are still running is
that they feel it would damage their company. Star Wars has an
extremely larger profile than those and it would not escape the notice
of both the media (gaming and otherwise) and potential investors (a
majority of companies don't use their own money to develop new products
or expand opperations).
The
Licencing fee for the Star Wars name(not including their share of
subscription share and box share) was 10 million $ a year, accordong to
the..hmm, whats it's name..."Star Wars Insider"? Meh, I never remember
the name of the magazine.
It also listed the licencing fee for Hasbro(for action figures and like) at 25 million.
Can't
remember the other, but they only listed a few of the many companies
that produce Star Wars stuff under licence...But just the few that were
listed ammounted in 200+ millions
Yeah that was it. That $10 million a year has to be paid wether
the game is running or not. By continuing to run the game on the
skeleton crew they currently have, and after the impending server
merges (it will become the priority once the 'complete' box flops), the
income from even the handfull of players they have left will help
reduce the fee. Even if it isn't enough to pay the licensing fee,
the revenue form the handfull of subscibers they have left is still
more than nothing. Though they don't seem to realize the negative
PR the game (and the people who work on it) has, and will continue to,
generate hurts their company as a whole and not just SWG.
O your funny.... I saw your comment on the suck boards....
TH watches me like a hawk to put out my fires on a constant basis.... as you saw today.
See the difference between you and me is that no matter what you say or try to, people do know and see what is really going on.
You can try to fluff them all you want but they are not that stupid... they just arn't.
Your comments are made in "worry", if half of what I said or others said did not bother you , you would not post.
So far as I said there it's isk 11 -- SOE devs 0 -- 11 months of me being right and 0 months of them being successful.
I can back mine up... can you back yours up?
Worry about you? Lol, you think too highly of yourself
By that definition, I must have you worried since you came here posting about it in a thread that has nothing to do with what you're talking about...
Yes but you do watch... I like that. Again.... can your back up your success with anything?
Show me the NGE was any kind of a success.
I don't watch you
According to whatever that Lucasfilm magazine is (I don't remember the name), SOE is paying a yearly licensing fee. They have to pay that until their contract expires regardless wether or not the game is running. The servers will be merged early next year and they will continue the game with less than the ten people who are currently working oon it to at least offset the loss they will incur from the licensing fee alone.
There is also the major PR hit they would take by closing a Star Wars MMORPG because it was losing money. That, in itself, could inflict serious harm to SOE as a company. The reason MxO and Planetside are still running is that they feel it would damage their company. Star Wars has an extremely larger profile than those and it would not escape the notice of both the media (gaming and otherwise) and potential investors (a majority of companies don't use their own money to develop new products or expand opperations).
The Licencing fee for the Star Wars name(not including their share of subscription share and box share) was 10 million $ a year, accordong to the..hmm, whats it's name..."Star Wars Insider"? Meh, I never remember the name of the magazine.
It also listed the licencing fee for Hasbro(for action figures and like) at 25 million.
Can't remember the other, but they only listed a few of the many companies that produce Star Wars stuff under licence...But just the few that were listed ammounted in 200+ millions
Yeah that was it. That $10 million a year has to be paid wether the game is running or not. By continuing to run the game on the skeleton crew they currently have, and after the impending server merges (it will become the priority once the 'complete' box flops), the income from even the handfull of players they have left will help reduce the fee. Even if it isn't enough to pay the licensing fee, the revenue form the handfull of subscibers they have left is still more than nothing. Though they don't seem to realize the negative PR the game (and the people who work on it) has, and will continue to, generate hurts their company as a whole and not just SWG.
Interesting. If they were paying LEC 10 mil a year, with 200K subs they were getting around 35 million a year in gross revenue.
With 40K (which is what I think is the most they have now) they are bleeding red ink faster than SWG is bleeding subs.