First, the game is in relatively early beta stages. Everything is subject to change. So forming an opinion about the game and putting it out there like it's some kind of review is folly, because when the game launches the aspects which you dislike may not even exist anymore. It. Is. Not. Complete. Not even close. Like most MMO's, it won't even be complete at launch.
On the other hand, there are some things you can gather from the Beta that you can be pretty sure won't change, such as how the combat system works. But saying the game is all raiding at this point... you have no idea that they don't have a whole bunch of solo content to implement. You basically don't know what you're talking about, even if it turns out you're right six months from now.
Beta is a testing stage. People seem to forget that. It's not a preview of the game for a lucky batch of people to see who are supposed to be quiet because they might excitepeople!Beta is supposed to suck. If you're in Beta, the whole point of that user agreement which encourages to keep your trap shut, was that Beta is supposed to suck and they don't want you to send out false impressions about their game, like you are now. You're supposed to be in there helping them improve it.
So stop bitching about how the game sucks, and get to work so it doesn't, Capiche?
Originally posted by EliasThorne Two points - in my experience (check my sig) a very late beta almost always is 90%+ of how a game is at release and since when can you get a refund on an MMO?
Or was it you that stuffed up my Dark Ages code when I bought it a couple of years ago?
I assume by "very late" you mean 6 months after the est. release of the game? Q1 2006? really this game is out now????
And if the OP actually paid money to play DnL, then his opinion is automatically thrown out the window.
--------------------------------------------- I live to fight, and fight to live.
Originally posted by Amathe I haven't watched the movie "Pat", but based on what is known about it I'm pretty confident it sucks. I feel the same way about male pattern baldness, earthquakes, erectile disfunction and alimony. I have been spared those things as well but I can safely say none of them are good. So I don't share your view that you have to personally experience something to have a valid opinion as to its merits, particularly with the wealth of information that has been released about this game.
Actually the movie "Pat" is hilarious in a very creepy way, so you missed out. At least, you won't truly know until you've watched it. You actually do have to experience something to have a valid opinion about it, or else you're just another shaved ape talking out of his ass on the internet. And no matter what you say, you can't change that.
Originally posted by Sturmrabe Originally posted by Anageth Originally posted by Mrbloodworth Originally posted by Anageth Originally posted by Mrbloodworth Originally posted by Anageth Try this game at launch before you start bashing it. I completely avoid the V:SoH section because of exactly this. There are way too many people saying it doesn't look finished, which can only mean two things.They are in Beta, and if they say it doesn't feel finished, it's because it's in frickin beta. They're just looking at screenshots and pulling comments out of their butt.I have tried many rubbish games in the past, despite people telling me it's crap. I may have wasted a good $100 dollars on DDO and DnL, but guess what? I tried them, I lived through them and now I know what I like and dislike. To conclude:Try this game, don't just listen to the vocal minority. If you don't like it in the end, just get a refund!
I had completely forgotten that you cant talk about this game before it launches like any other game here on mmorpg.com because it was made by brad.
My bad.
Were you dropped on your head as a child, or are you just plain thick? Name one sentence in my original post where I said don't discuss the game? I said don't bash it moron.
Your definition of basing seems to be any one saying they dont like something about it.
I personally dont really like the player models. I guess that you cant gather that opinion from screen shots and i am wrong in my assessment.
Seriously, shut up and re-read what I said. I'm saying:
Like it? Good.
Bashing it, but haven't played it? Shut up.
Bashing it, but have played it? Singing about it for all I care.
By your logic, noone who has not played it should be praising it either... they know just as much as the people who haven't played and are bashing it, so both of their opinions are equally [in]valid...
there are plently of people people that HAVE played it and bash it, and I'm one, but people like you don't differentiate...
That's not exactly true, I can see where you are going with this; but you need to understand that fact that saying good things about a game is fine, while attacking one and perstering others will casue forums threads like this one.
Originally posted by Amathe I love how you have concluded who the "vocal minority" is. What statistical method did you use? Where did you gather your data? For someone who complains about people talking about an issue for which they allegedly lack empirical support, you don't have any hesitation yourself do you?
Someone delete this post, the user used too many big words, and has been sentenced to postage due. Your total amount is $1 for every word over 7 letters, and $2 for every word I had to look up the meaning of. So your amount due is $11 dollars.
Originally posted by Juneli First, the game is in relatively early beta stages. Everything is subject to change. So forming an opinion about the game and putting it out there like it's some kind of review is folly, because when the game launches the aspects which you dislike may not even exist anymore. It. Is. Not. Complete. Not even close. Like most MMO's, it won't even be complete at launch. On the other hand, there are some things you can gather from the Beta that you can be pretty sure won't change, such as how the combat system works. But saying the game is all raiding at this point... you have no idea that they don't have a whole bunch of solo content to implement. You basically don't know what you're talking about, even if it turns out you're right six months from now. Beta is a testing stage. People seem to forget that. It's not a preview of the game for a lucky batch of people to see who are supposed to be quiet because they might excitepeople!Beta is supposed to suck. If you're in Beta, the whole point of that user agreement which encourages to keep your trap shut, was that Beta is supposed to suck and they don't want you to send out false impressions about their game, like you are now. You're supposed to be in there helping them improve it. So stop bitching about how the game sucks, and get to work so it doesn't, Capiche?
The squeaky wheel gets the grease. We're providing the squeak and we're hoping Brad provides the grease. Now is the time to bring this stuff up. We want to like the game. We want to be able to play the game. That's why we're vocal. Negative feedback should be welcomed. You think people want to spend time posting just to bash?
What most are alluding to are the types of things that lead to a game being labeled negatively. Like "Evercrack" or articles on how some kid killed himself while playing EQ1 or Evercrack support groups etc. That's the ugly part of mmo's. We don't want to go through that again. Get it?
Originally posted by Amathe I love how you have concluded who the "vocal minority" is. What statistical method did you use? Where did you gather your data? For someone who complains about people talking about an issue for which they allegedly lack empirical support, you don't have any hesitation yourself do you?
Want an example? Look at the SWG forum, which was bombarded with hatred towards SoE and CU/NGE changes to the game. Only since the new categories have emerged that people have started to express how they like the game, something that wasn't possible before.
Now look at this forum, there's hardly any threads about people expressing their interest. There was before though, prior to Sigil announcing SoE would be publishing the game. Only since then, every thread is either a minor bash or comments on how it isn't looking good. Does it sound familiar? Looks to me people just love to jump on the bandwagon and show prejudice.
Just play the game then make up your mind, that's all I meant.
Edit:
@Elias You've always had the option to get a refund for an MMOG, well in the UK at least. I've returned most of my games (DDO, SWG, EQ2).
The Vanguard forum here went to hell the day they announced SOE would be involved. Most of the garbage here is just vailed SOE hate messages. Most of them don't even know what they are talking about they are just lashing out. The board content here is about identicle to the SWG board. Coinsidence?
I don't know about Vanguard beta, but I have the feeling that if a game is so good it's like a new generation of MMOG it would show very early in beta. It would be unfinished but you'd feel you are playing something ground breaking. Is this the case with Vanguard?
Originally posted by altairzq I don't know about Vanguard beta, but I have the feeling that if a game is so good it's like a new generation of MMOG it would show very early in beta. It would be unfinished but you'd feel you are playing something ground breaking. Is this the case with Vanguard?
Most testers are not going to break their NDA. As soon as it's lifted I'm positive that there is going to be a flood of information for you on this very topic.
I don't take what a poster says on the forums seriously. They all have different opinions than me and agendas that make a majority of what the nay sayers say about beta inaccurate. Though I found this beta journal helpful, and it peaked my interest in the game more.
I'm still not sure about SOE publishing...they have screwed over their fanbases quite often to trust them too much. The past has a way of repeating itself.
If you dont give it an honest fair trial then making a bunch of negative comments about it based on some screenshots and posts you read by other people who dont know what they are talking about makes you a lemming.
Nothing more nothing less........
Critical thinking is a desire to seek, patience to doubt, fondness to meditate, slowness to assert, readiness to consider, carefulness to dispose and set in order; and hatred for every kind of imposture.
I would still like to hear the OP and others answer my question.
Please tell me why this game should be exempt from the normal discussions that other mmo's receive during the life of the title (meaning development)?
Just one reason.
---------- "Anyone posting on this forum is not an average user, and there for any opinions about the game are going to be overly critical compared to an average users opinions." - Me
"Hello person posting on a site specifically for MMO's in a thread on a sub forum specifically for a particular game talking about meta features and making comparisons to other titles in the genre, and their meta features.
Originally posted by Mrbloodworth I would still like to hear the OP and others answer my question.
Please tell me why this game should be exempt from the normal discussions that other mmo's receive during the life of the title (meaning development)?
Just one reason.
I believe that he is making a statement about how people are ripping Vanguard more so than other games in development because of it's association with SOE. It should not be exempt, but even you must admit that Vanguard is getting extra trollage that is not warranted. Judge the game based on some semblance of actual knowledge, not based on hearsay or your opinion of it's publishers.
People ragging on Vanguard with zero knowledge of the game itself just because they hate SOE makes us all look stupid as gamers. And it's happening right here and if you say it isn't you're lying to yourself and us. Which only makes you look stupid.
Originally posted by Mrbloodworth I would still like to hear the OP and others answer my question.
Please tell me why this game should be exempt from the normal discussions that other mmo's receive during the life of the title (meaning development)?
Just one reason.
what do you mean exactly? are you asking why there is a NDA? or are you implying that people are not allowed to talk about vanguard in general?
people have and do say pretty much whatever the hell they want about this game, i don't think it should be exempt from discussion or skepticism.
i do think the trolling has gotten way out of hand though, i know for a fact some people come here just to start shit with vanguard fans.
the thing is, most of the threads being started isn't about vanguard at all. its just a huge pissing fest where people usually attack the vanguard community, soe, brad mcquaid, or something els that has little to do with the actual game it self.
and the fanboi's usually respond back in a negative way, so then they attack the community once again. its a never ending circle that has ruined this forum IMO.
and don't get me wrong, there are fans that troll and start shit as well....im just tired of it all together.
Originally posted by EliasThorne Two points - in my experience (check my sig) a very late beta almost always is 90%+ of how a game is at release and since when can you get a refund on an MMO?
Or was it you that stuffed up my Dark Ages code when I bought it a couple of years ago?
Well its not a late beta. The game still has about 6 or 7 months of development time. It's in beta 3 out of 6. That means it's 50%.
I thought the release was going to be in 3 months.... am I wrong?
Originally posted by EliasThorne Two points - in my experience (check my sig) a very late beta almost always is 90%+ of how a game is at release and since when can you get a refund on an MMO?
Or was it you that stuffed up my Dark Ages code when I bought it a couple of years ago?
Well its not a late beta. The game still has about 6 or 7 months of development time. It's in beta 3 out of 6. That means it's 50%.
I thought the release was going to be in 3 months.... am I wrong?
It could be out as early as 3 months, but most likely 5-6 months. Most people are betting an early March release. Which would put it at the end of Q1 07, which is what Sigil has targeted as the release date.
My birthday is in march. The release of Vanguard would be an excellent gift.
Critical thinking is a desire to seek, patience to doubt, fondness to meditate, slowness to assert, readiness to consider, carefulness to dispose and set in order; and hatred for every kind of imposture.
Originally posted by Anageth Try this game at launch before you start bashing it. I completely avoid the V:SoH section because of exactly this. There are way too many people saying it doesn't look finished, which can only mean two things.
They are in Beta, and if they say it doesn't feel finished, it's because it's in frickin beta. They're just looking at screenshots and pulling comments out of their butt. I have tried many rubbish games in the past, despite people telling me it's crap. I may have wasted a good $100 dollars on DDO and DnL, but guess what? I tried them, I lived through them and now I know what I like and dislike. To conclude: Try this game, don't just listen to the vocal minority. If you don't like it in the end, just get a refund!
So you want everyone to buy the game and waste their money? If not for players who warn us about unfinished games, I would have picked up Archlord. lol
Now if they give out trials, thats a different story.
Originally posted by Anageth Try this game at launch before you start bashing it. I completely avoid the V:SoH section because of exactly this. There are way too many people saying it doesn't look finished, which can only mean two things.
They are in Beta, and if they say it doesn't feel finished, it's because it's in frickin beta. They're just looking at screenshots and pulling comments out of their butt. I have tried many rubbish games in the past, despite people telling me it's crap. I may have wasted a good $100 dollars on DDO and DnL, but guess what? I tried them, I lived through them and now I know what I like and dislike. To conclude: Try this game, don't just listen to the vocal minority. If you don't like it in the end, just get a refund!
I know i Have the money...but other people may nto have hundreds and hundreds of dollars to waste on crap games like DDo and DnL.
Don't get me started with DnL, lol. I got lucky enough and was part of the 10k free accounts. But what I am saying though is this website is made to give people an idea about each particular game. I have saved so much money cause I read up on games first before I buy them. The best always is a 14 day trial! If you believe in your game then give free trials.
Originally posted by Amathe I love how you have concluded who the "vocal minority" is. What statistical method did you use? Where did you gather your data?
People gonna buy what they believe in, simple as that. Look at what happened with DnL. Even with SoG and after release people still bought it. For that matter there are probably a couple of people still playing it.
As my dad used to say, every shoe won't fit every foot. The game may rock or it may turn out to be a steaming heap of dung. We won't know for sure one way or the other until release now will we?
Comments
First, the game is in relatively early beta stages. Everything is subject to change. So forming an opinion about the game and putting it out there like it's some kind of review is folly, because when the game launches the aspects which you dislike may not even exist anymore. It. Is. Not. Complete. Not even close. Like most MMO's, it won't even be complete at launch.
On the other hand, there are some things you can gather from the Beta that you can be pretty sure won't change, such as how the combat system works. But saying the game is all raiding at this point... you have no idea that they don't have a whole bunch of solo content to implement. You basically don't know what you're talking about, even if it turns out you're right six months from now.
Beta is a testing stage. People seem to forget that. It's not a preview of the game for a lucky batch of people to see who are supposed to be quiet because they might excite people! Beta is supposed to suck. If you're in Beta, the whole point of that user agreement which encourages to keep your trap shut, was that Beta is supposed to suck and they don't want you to send out false impressions about their game, like you are now. You're supposed to be in there helping them improve it.
So stop bitching about how the game sucks, and get to work so it doesn't, Capiche?
I assume by "very late" you mean 6 months after the est. release of the game?
Q1 2006? really this game is out now???? 
And if the OP actually paid money to play DnL, then his opinion is automatically thrown out the window.
---------------------------------------------
I live to fight, and fight to live.
I
had completely forgotten that you cant talk about this game before it
launches like any other game here on mmorpg.com because it was made by
brad.
My bad.
Were
you dropped on your head as a child, or are you just plain thick? Name
one sentence in my original post where I said don't discuss the game? I
said don't bash it moron.
Your definition of basing seems to be any one saying they dont like something about it.
I
personally dont really like the player models. I guess that you cant
gather that opinion from screen shots and i am wrong in my assessment.
Seriously, shut up and re-read what I said. I'm saying:
Like it? Good.
Bashing it, but haven't played it? Shut up.
Bashing it, but have played it? Singing about it for all I care.
By
your logic, noone who has not played it should be praising it either...
they know just as much as the people who haven't played and are bashing
it, so both of their opinions are equally [in]valid...
there are plently of people people that HAVE played it and bash it, and I'm one, but people like you don't differentiate...
That's
not exactly true, I can see where you are going with this; but you need
to understand that fact that saying good things about a game is fine,
while attacking one and perstering others will casue forums threads
like this one.
Not so nice guy!
What most are alluding to are the types of things that lead to a game being labeled negatively. Like "Evercrack" or articles on how some kid killed himself while playing EQ1 or Evercrack support groups etc. That's the ugly part of mmo's. We don't want to go through that again. Get it?
Spiritglow
Want an example? Look at the SWG forum, which was bombarded with hatred towards SoE and CU/NGE changes to the game. Only since the new categories have emerged that people have started to express how they like the game, something that wasn't possible before.
Now look at this forum, there's hardly any threads about people expressing their interest. There was before though, prior to Sigil announcing SoE would be publishing the game. Only since then, every thread is either a minor bash or comments on how it isn't looking good. Does it sound familiar? Looks to me people just love to jump on the bandwagon and show prejudice.
Just play the game then make up your mind, that's all I meant.
Edit:
@Elias You've always had the option to get a refund for an MMOG, well in the UK at least. I've returned most of my games (DDO, SWG, EQ2).
The Vanguard forum here went to hell the day they announced SOE would be involved. Most of the garbage here is just vailed SOE hate messages. Most of them don't even know what they are talking about they are just lashing out. The board content here is about identicle to the SWG board. Coinsidence?
i totally agree with Anageth
last time i brought up something like the i got a ban from the fourms
lifted I'm positive that there is going to be a flood of information
for you on this very topic.
=====================
-Just My Thoughts-
Max
Currently playing: Nothing
I don't take what a poster says on the forums seriously. They all have different opinions than me and agendas that make a majority of what the nay sayers say about beta inaccurate. Though I found this beta journal helpful, and it peaked my interest in the game more.
I'm still not sure about SOE publishing...they have screwed over their fanbases quite often to trust them too much. The past has a way of repeating itself.
I agree with Anarchyart.....
If you dont give it an honest fair trial then making a bunch of negative comments about it based on some screenshots and posts you read by other people who dont know what they are talking about makes you a lemming.
Nothing more nothing less........
Critical thinking is a desire to seek, patience to doubt, fondness to meditate, slowness to assert, readiness to consider, carefulness to dispose and set in order; and hatred for every kind of imposture.
Please tell me why this game should be exempt from the normal
discussions that other mmo's receive during the life of the title (meaning development)?
Just one reason.
----------
"Anyone posting on this forum is not an average user, and there for any opinions about the game are going to be overly critical compared to an average users opinions." - Me
"No, your wrong.." - Random user #123
"Hello person posting on a site specifically for MMO's in a thread on a sub forum specifically for a particular game talking about meta features and making comparisons to other titles in the genre, and their meta features.
How are you?" -Me
I believe that he is making a statement about how people are ripping Vanguard more so than other games in development because of it's association with SOE. It should not be exempt, but even you must admit that Vanguard is getting extra trollage that is not warranted. Judge the game based on some semblance of actual knowledge, not based on hearsay or your opinion of it's publishers.
People ragging on Vanguard with zero knowledge of the game itself just because they hate SOE makes us all look stupid as gamers. And it's happening right here and if you say it isn't you're lying to yourself and us. Which only makes you look stupid.
what do you mean exactly? are you asking why there is a NDA? or are you implying that people are not allowed to talk about vanguard in general?
people have and do say pretty much whatever the hell they want about this game, i don't think it should be exempt from discussion or skepticism.
i do think the trolling has gotten way out of hand though, i know for a fact some people come here just to start shit with vanguard fans.
the thing is, most of the threads being started isn't about vanguard at all. its just a huge pissing fest where people usually attack the vanguard community, soe, brad mcquaid, or something els that has little to do with the actual game it self.
and the fanboi's usually respond back in a negative way, so then they attack the community once again. its a never ending circle that has ruined this forum IMO.
and don't get me wrong, there are fans that troll and start shit as well....im just tired of it all together.
Well its not a late beta. The game still has about 6 or 7 months of development time. It's in beta 3 out of 6. That means it's 50%.
I thought the release was going to be in 3 months.... am I wrong?
Nice.....
My birthday is in march. The release of Vanguard would be an excellent gift.
Critical thinking is a desire to seek, patience to doubt, fondness to meditate, slowness to assert, readiness to consider, carefulness to dispose and set in order; and hatred for every kind of imposture.
So you want everyone to buy the game and waste their money? If not for players who warn us about unfinished games, I would have picked up Archlord. lol
Now if they give out trials, thats a different story.
Fight Me! http://zunarn.mybrute.com
Don't get me started with DnL, lol. I got lucky enough and was part of the 10k free accounts. But what I am saying though is this website is made to give people an idea about each particular game. I have saved so much money cause I read up on games first before I buy them. The best always is a 14 day trial! If you believe in your game then give free trials.
Fight Me! http://zunarn.mybrute.com
Yes -> it's the majority.
No -> it's a vocal minority.
People gonna buy what they believe in, simple as that. Look at what happened with DnL. Even with SoG and after release people still bought it. For that matter there are probably a couple of people still playing it.
As my dad used to say, every shoe won't fit every foot. The game may rock or it may turn out to be a steaming heap of dung. We won't know for sure one way or the other until release now will we?
I miss DAoC
I like alot about wow, but the grafic design isnt for me. And im in need for a change after daoc, wow and eq2.
This might be it.
most screens look like shit, some movies do aswell. But most movies are looking good imo.
Anyways, not gonna spam alot about this. Buy it and try it! That's what im gonna do