Originally posted by sempiternal Originally posted by osc8r You know what, we HAD excellent MMORPG's back in 1997-2000. Then came the carebear gamers in HUGE numbers that would cry if they lost a few of their precious items. They flocked to the forums with their whining and the Dev's listened. They Dev's changed their games cutting off of the PVP crowd, the PVE crowd was happy - well - until they moved on to the next big PVE game ie WOW.
And thats where we are now. WOW has shown that pointless PVP and repetitive PVE grinding and raids is a formula that works, and works well (in terms of $ making). Slowly the WOW crowd have started to realise this...and will look for more freedom, like what we had in the goold old days or UO and AC!
It's sad what the MMORPG has turned into. Where everything is spoonfed to you. You never have any bad days, you never have any good days (oh, unless winning a dice role counts!)...everyday is just meh. What we need in the MMOG industry is something universally respected like the Academy Awards for movies; to encourage game developers to actually make good games along with the money making blockbusters.
Ummm... no thanks. I remember reading WoW reviews when it came out and they all praised it as next best thing since invention of fire, and while it IS a good game in it's own, there IS a lot of things missing. My point is, WoW was way over hyped in every game magazine IMO. I respect much more just normal gamers and their views about new games, there are of course trolls and fanbois for every game, but there are also lot of people that give non-biased reviews.
All I can say is be ready for a mass amount of korean mmorpgs!
Now where the hell I put my cookie cutter?
[[ DEAD ]] - Funny - I deleted my account on the site using the cancel account button. Forum user is separate and still exists with no way of deleting it. Delete it admins. Do it, this ends now.
Originally posted by busdriver Originally posted by Tinybina Originally posted by busdriver Darkfall will own every game mentioned in this thread.
Darkfall will be the next Roma Victor and Shadowbane...
I remember every fool in the world was drooling all over those two games, untill they got a glipse of the horrible graphics...
Darkfall will be no different. Except Darkfall graphics are not horrible, so far every picture is taken by using standard (non uber) computer... so what is your point? And why would Darkfall be the same as Shadowbane or Roma? Because they have free PvP, so they MUST have horrible graphics? By graphics I mean ingame... And last I checked Darkfall looked like attack of the clone's with every single person looking the exact same, holding the weapon and running the exact same, each horse looking the exact same... And thats all they could come up with in what 4 years of development.......
Darkfall (if it even comes out) will make about as much splash on the MMORPG world as Shadowbane did...After all those years in Development you would think they would have something to show that would blow you away, instead I started to yawn.
------------------------------ You see, every mammal on this planet instinctively develops a natural equilibrium with their surrounding environment, but you humans do not. You spread to an area, and you multiply, and you multiply, until every natural resource is consumed. The only way you can survive is to spread to another area. There is another organism on this planet that follows the same pattern. Do you know what it is? A virus. Human beings are a disease, a cancer of this planet.-Mr.Smith
Originally posted by busdriver Ummm... no thanks. I remember reading WoW reviews when it came out and they all praised it as next best thing since invention of fire, and while it IS a good game in it's own, there IS a lot of things missing. My point is, WoW was way over hyped in every game magazine IMO. I respect much more just normal gamers and their views about new games, there are of course trolls and fanbois for every game, but there are also lot of people that give non-biased reviews.
You don't get it. It would not matter what reviewers thought, it would only matter what experienced, successful and knowledgeable developers thought of the games of their peers.
Right now game developers are mostly after money and as a result game development is becoming less of an art and more of a money-grab business. If there was some kind of other main motivator, like the industry-wide professional recognition of an Oscar, then developers would have a reason to not only focus on bringing in the most money possible with their games, but also creating works of art, or games that are exceptionally good.
Developers right now could care less what you are anyone else writes in a forum, but professional recongnition would be a good motivator.
What we need in the MMOG industry is something universally respected like the Academy Awards for movies; to encourage game developers to actually make good games along with the money making blockbusters.
*cough* in-game advertising *cough*
Look at network television. An independent group determines viewers/ratings; which sets the price of advertising during certain shows.
It's not going to be much different in gaming. Games will compete for "viewers" and ratings just like shows on network television compete now.
Like it or not, it's coming. There's too much money to be made for it to be ignored. Look at the internet in general today. There was too much money to be made for it to be ignored.
Hope you got your things together. Hope you are quite prepared to die. Looks like we're in for nasty weather. ... There's a bad moon on the rise.
Originally posted by sempiternal Originally posted by busdriver Ummm... no thanks. I remember reading WoW reviews when it came out and they all praised it as next best thing since invention of fire, and while it IS a good game in it's own, there IS a lot of things missing. My point is, WoW was way over hyped in every game magazine IMO.I respect much more just normal gamers and their views about new games, there are of course trolls and fanbois for every game, but there are also lot of people that give non-biased reviews.
You don't get it. It would not matter what reviewers thought, it would only matter what experienced, successful and knowledgeable developers thought of the games of their peers. Right now game developers are mostly after money and as a result game development is becoming less of an art and more of a money-grab business. If there was some kind of other main motivator, like the industry-wide professional recognition of an Oscar, then developers would have a reason to not only focus on bringing in the most money possible with their games, but also creating works of art, or games that are exceptionally good. Developers right now could care less what you are anyone else writes in a forum, but professional recongnition would be a good motivator.
Such awards would follow the reviews and the box office. The Oscars do. If we had had "gaming Oscars" in 2004, WoW would have swept the board for that year.
Originally posted by ChrisMattern Originally posted by sempiternal Originally posted by busdriver Ummm... no thanks. I remember reading WoW reviews when it came out and they all praised it as next best thing since invention of fire, and while it IS a good game in it's own, there IS a lot of things missing. My point is, WoW was way over hyped in every game magazine IMO.I respect much more just normal gamers and their views about new games, there are of course trolls and fanbois for every game, but there are also lot of people that give non-biased reviews.
You don't get it. It would not matter what reviewers thought, it would only matter what experienced, successful and knowledgeable developers thought of the games of their peers. Right now game developers are mostly after money and as a result game development is becoming less of an art and more of a money-grab business. If there was some kind of other main motivator, like the industry-wide professional recognition of an Oscar, then developers would have a reason to not only focus on bringing in the most money possible with their games, but also creating works of art, or games that are exceptionally good. Developers right now could care less what you are anyone else writes in a forum, but professional recongnition would be a good motivator.
Such awards would follow the reviews and the box office. The Oscars do. If we had had "gaming Oscars" in 2004, WoW would have swept the board for that year.
Chris Mattern
Exactly, no matter how professional the judges were, there would always be the question of viewers independency.
By the time any awards comes out the battle will already be over. The award will be pointless.
If a book or film gets a poor release, but is given an award six months later then there aren't that many obstacles to stop people from rushing out and buying the film or book. It might sell out, but new copies can easily be created, and in the case of films it will probably show up on cable or satellite before long.
However if an MMO fails at release and doesn't attract enough players to keep it going then an award six months later isn't going to make the slightest bit of difference. Suppose "Seed" got the award for the most original new MMO of 2006. Would anyone care?
As for those games that survive their initial release, it isn't hard to pick up a large amount of information and views from sites such as this one.
I'd guess the only award category that may have some point would be something like "Best foreign MMO". Just to pick out which of the games that have succeeded in other markets (e.g. Japan, Korea) are worth paying attention to.
Such awards would follow the reviews and the box office. The Oscars do. If we had had "gaming Oscars" in 2004, WoW would have swept the board for that year.
Chris Mattern
It kind of did, unofficially. I mean among most of the posters here, the game is complete and utter crap, but professional reviewers reviewed it highly, giving it editor's choices, game of the year and so forth, so there's a bit of disconnect between the "MMO insider players", on the one hand, and the professional MMO reviewing community, on the other.
For the record, I do not think WoW is crap, but my point is that many of the positions taken here are out of step with the mainstream opinion of the reviewing community.
Every other year or every few years will be a "Bannyer Year" for MMO's. Such is the lifespan of games and technology. The newest hottest thing is still right around the corner...
Not to say I won't enjoy some of the older games...but there will always be new great hot stuff coming out..
Having worked in the gaming industry from the game testing perspective I have to point out some things:
1. The idea of a gaming award system is flawed. Every single gaming magazine has an alliance to certain companies. I was working for Playstation and I can tell you that certain magazines were always Playstation friendly no matter how crappy the game was. The same thing would occur with Xbox based games etc. Think about politics and newspapers/tv news, they are not objective, they just present the politics they favor in a good light and the ones they do not in a bad light.
2. WoW succeeded for multiple reason however some important things to point out are: a) Blizzard has a huge player base, that player base started playing WoW as the game that Blizzard brought out. Perhaps most of you were too young, but when Warcraft II came out everyone was playing it...same thing happened with Starcraft. b) The initial conception of the Devs for WoW was not constant raiding. The real grind happens once you hit lvl 60 with all the PvP, raiding and faction rewards. This all occured because there was a change of guard so to speak. The main devs left WoW and went on to develop Warhammer, the new main dev that came in was an Everquest I Raider and basically turned WoW into a huge grind. The expansion is going to help the game a little bit, but I have no doubts the raiding dungeons will keep being added producing the same effect. c) Itemization. Its the downfall of WoW as well, once gear becomes so powerful it outways skill the game loses its balance. However the ability for people to gain better and better gear is what keeps people interested. There is always something better you can get that makes you better in your job.
3. 2007 will have a couple of hyped up games come out. As it has been made painfully obvious from the past hype does not necessarily mean a good game. Think about DDO, Matrix Online, Everquest 2 to name a few.
4. Patch updates break or fix games. SWG prime example of an update totally breaking the game. Once you change your main character development system you can lose your player base by a lot. Lets face it, its the character development system that makes or breaks an MMO. Interestingly Matrix Online combat revision seems to have made the game better, I do not know if its going to recover as a game but everyone seems to view it as a good change.
Current Games: EVE, WoW Have Played: EQ1, EQ2, CoH, CoX, MXO, GW, Silk Road, WAR, AoC, Anarchy Online, UO, DDO
Originally posted by nikoa b) The initial conception of the Devs for WoW was not constant raiding. The real grind happens once you hit lvl 60 with all the PvP, raiding and faction rewards. This all occured because there was a change of guard so to speak. The main devs left WoW and went on to develop Warhammer, the new main dev that came in was an Everquest I Raider and basically turned WoW into a huge grind.
Jokes aside I think that Warhammer will live up to its hype. Its going to be WoW 2,taking everything they learned from making WoW and applying it to a new game and taking out everything that their game base did not like.
Of course a thing I did not talk about in my last post. Game procuders can mess up games severely. Again for the people not in the gaming industry, one of the jobs of the producer (usually the assistant producer) is to assign what bugs have to be worked on and by whom based on what the testers find. Furthermore they can veto ideas that the devs come up with since they also assign work to programmers. I have seen good games going to waste because key bugs did not get fixed or really good ideas never got implemented due to time constrains.
Which is something that Blizzard is good about, they are notorious for their games always being late...however once they produce something its always solid from the production perspective.
Current Games: EVE, WoW Have Played: EQ1, EQ2, CoH, CoX, MXO, GW, Silk Road, WAR, AoC, Anarchy Online, UO, DDO
Which is something that Blizzard is good about, they are notorious for their games always being late...however once they produce something its always solid from the production perspective.
This is very true, which I suppose gives them some credibility and weight within Vivendi to delay things in favor of getting them right. It's likely, for example, that the people in Paris were not thrilled that Blizzard wanted to delay TBC, but given Blizzard's track record for producing polished games, it's pretty hard to argue with them in that situation.
I'm in a few betas for some of the big upcoming games (I won't name which :P). Trust me, the "next gen" MMOs aren't adding all that much from the last gen of MMOs.
So, get ready to play a game for maybe a month or two, then sit and wait for the next big thing to come around.
I think it's pretty obvious that a large chunk of MMO players are looking to move on to something new. I'm pretty sure that the first of this big cluster of games to go to market and has decent to good gameplay with some innovation will grab a good chunk of subscribers. I don't think anyone is thinking WoW numbers yet, but I could see Age of Conan and WAR (At least those two, possibly others) hitting around 250k minimum with an upside of about 500k maybe.
Originally posted by Teleboas I'm in a few betas for some of the big upcoming games (I won't name which :P). Trust me, the "next gen" MMOs aren't adding all that much from the last gen of MMOs. So, get ready to play a game for maybe a month or two, then sit and wait for the next big thing to come around.
Teleboas Can you make a post like this....?
"I want a MMO with
Spellborn's combat system LOTR graphics and quest system Conan's gore and castle raids"
Originally posted by forest-nl wow is not solid it just apeal to millions becouse its easy brainless grind fest. If wow had open pvp no instance then it would be much better now it sux big time.
It wouldn't be better. it would be diffrent. also, every MMORPG so far was easy and had a brainless grind, with the exception of EVE. Not that the content is hard to play, the learning curve is just very high.
Comments
Ummm... no thanks. I remember reading WoW reviews when it came out and they all praised it as next best thing since invention of fire, and while it IS a good game in it's own, there IS a lot of things missing. My point is, WoW was way over hyped in every game magazine IMO.
I respect much more just normal gamers and their views about new games, there are of course trolls and fanbois for every game, but there are also lot of people that give non-biased reviews.
All I can say is be ready for a mass amount of korean mmorpgs!
Now where the hell I put my cookie cutter?
I remember every fool in the world was drooling all over those two games, untill they got a glipse of the horrible graphics...
Darkfall will be no different.
Except Darkfall graphics are not horrible, so far every picture is taken by using standard (non uber) computer... so what is your point?
And why would Darkfall be the same as Shadowbane or Roma? Because they have free PvP, so they MUST have horrible graphics?
By graphics I mean ingame... And last I checked Darkfall looked like attack of the clone's with every single person looking the exact same, holding the weapon and running the exact same, each horse looking the exact same... And thats all they could come up with in what 4 years of development.......
Darkfall (if it even comes out) will make about as much splash on the MMORPG world as Shadowbane did...After all those years in Development you would think they would have something to show that would blow you away, instead I started to yawn.
------------------------------
You see, every mammal on this planet instinctively develops a natural equilibrium with their surrounding environment, but you humans do not. You spread to an area, and you multiply, and you multiply, until every natural resource is consumed. The only way you can survive is to spread to another area. There is another organism on this planet that follows the same pattern. Do you know what it is? A virus. Human beings are a disease, a cancer of this planet.-Mr.Smith
You don't get it. It would not matter what reviewers thought, it would only matter what experienced, successful and knowledgeable developers thought of the games of their peers.
Right now game developers are mostly after money and as a result game development is becoming less of an art and more of a money-grab business. If there was some kind of other main motivator, like the industry-wide professional recognition of an Oscar, then developers would have a reason to not only focus on bringing in the most money possible with their games, but also creating works of art, or games that are exceptionally good.
Developers right now could care less what you are anyone else writes in a forum, but professional recongnition would be a good motivator.
*cough* in-game advertising *cough*
Look at network television. An independent group determines viewers/ratings; which sets the price of advertising during certain shows.
It's not going to be much different in gaming. Games will compete for "viewers" and ratings just like shows on network television compete now.
Like it or not, it's coming. There's too much money to be made for it to be ignored. Look at the internet in general today. There was too much money to be made for it to be ignored.
Hope you got your things together. Hope you are quite prepared to die. Looks like we're in for nasty weather. ... There's a bad moon on the rise.
Right now game developers are mostly after money and as a result game development is becoming less of an art and more of a money-grab business. If there was some kind of other main motivator, like the industry-wide professional recognition of an Oscar, then developers would have a reason to not only focus on bringing in the most money possible with their games, but also creating works of art, or games that are exceptionally good.
Developers right now could care less what you are anyone else writes in a forum, but professional recongnition would be a good motivator.
Such awards would follow the reviews and the box office. The Oscars do. If we had had "gaming Oscars" in 2004, WoW would have swept the board for that year.
Chris Mattern
You don't get it. It would not matter what reviewers thought, it would only matter what experienced, successful and knowledgeable developers thought of the games of their peers.
Right now game developers are mostly after money and as a result game development is becoming less of an art and more of a money-grab business. If there was some kind of other main motivator, like the industry-wide professional recognition of an Oscar, then developers would have a reason to not only focus on bringing in the most money possible with their games, but also creating works of art, or games that are exceptionally good.
Developers right now could care less what you are anyone else writes in a forum, but professional recongnition would be a good motivator.
Such awards would follow the reviews and the box office. The Oscars do. If we had had "gaming Oscars" in 2004, WoW would have swept the board for that year.
Chris Mattern
Exactly, no matter how professional the judges were, there would always be the question of viewers independency.
If a book or film gets a poor release, but is given an award six months later then there aren't that many obstacles to stop people from rushing out and buying the film or book. It might sell out, but new copies can easily be created, and in the case of films it will probably show up on cable or satellite before long.
However if an MMO fails at release and doesn't attract enough players to keep it going then an award six months later isn't going to make the slightest bit of difference. Suppose "Seed" got the award for the most original new MMO of 2006. Would anyone care?
As for those games that survive their initial release, it isn't hard to pick up a large amount of information and views from sites such as this one.
I'd guess the only award category that may have some point would be something like "Best foreign MMO". Just to pick out which of the games that have succeeded in other markets (e.g. Japan, Korea) are worth paying attention to.
D&D Home Page - What Class Are You? - Build A Character - D&D Compendium
Such awards would follow the reviews and the box office. The Oscars do. If we had had "gaming Oscars" in 2004, WoW would have swept the board for that year.
Chris Mattern
It kind of did, unofficially. I mean among most of the posters here, the game is complete and utter crap, but professional reviewers reviewed it highly, giving it editor's choices, game of the year and so forth, so there's a bit of disconnect between the "MMO insider players", on the one hand, and the professional MMO reviewing community, on the other.
For the record, I do not think WoW is crap, but my point is that many of the positions taken here are out of step with the mainstream opinion of the reviewing community.
Every other year or every few years will be a "Bannyer Year" for MMO's. Such is the lifespan of games and technology. The newest hottest thing is still right around the corner...
Not to say I won't enjoy some of the older games...but there will always be new great hot stuff coming out..
1. The idea of a gaming award system is flawed. Every single gaming magazine has an alliance to certain companies. I was working for Playstation and I can tell you that certain magazines were always Playstation friendly no matter how crappy the game was. The same thing would occur with Xbox based games etc. Think about politics and newspapers/tv news, they are not objective, they just present the politics they favor in a good light and the ones they do not in a bad light.
2. WoW succeeded for multiple reason however some important things to point out are:
a) Blizzard has a huge player base, that player base started playing WoW as the game that Blizzard brought out. Perhaps most of you were too young, but when Warcraft II came out everyone was playing it...same thing happened with Starcraft.
b) The initial conception of the Devs for WoW was not constant raiding. The real grind happens once you hit lvl 60 with all the PvP, raiding and faction rewards. This all occured because there was a change of guard so to speak. The main devs left WoW and went on to develop Warhammer, the new main dev that came in was an Everquest I Raider and basically turned WoW into a huge grind. The expansion is going to help the game a little bit, but I have no doubts the raiding dungeons will keep being added producing the same effect.
c) Itemization. Its the downfall of WoW as well, once gear becomes so powerful it outways skill the game loses its balance. However the ability for people to gain better and better gear is what keeps people interested. There is always something better you can get that makes you better in your job.
3. 2007 will have a couple of hyped up games come out. As it has been made painfully obvious from the past hype does not necessarily mean a good game. Think about DDO, Matrix Online, Everquest 2 to name a few.
4. Patch updates break or fix games. SWG prime example of an update totally breaking the game. Once you change your main character development system you can lose your player base by a lot. Lets face it, its the character development system that makes or breaks an MMO. Interestingly Matrix Online combat revision seems to have made the game better, I do not know if its going to recover as a game but everyone seems to view it as a good change.
Jokes aside I think that Warhammer will live up to its hype. Its going to be WoW 2,taking everything they learned from making WoW and applying it to a new game and taking out everything that their game base did not like.
Of course a thing I did not talk about in my last post. Game procuders can mess up games severely. Again for the people not in the gaming industry, one of the jobs of the producer (usually the assistant producer) is to assign what bugs have to be worked on and by whom based on what the testers find. Furthermore they can veto ideas that the devs come up with since they also assign work to programmers. I have seen good games going to waste because key bugs did not get fixed or really good ideas never got implemented due to time constrains.
Which is something that Blizzard is good about, they are notorious for their games always being late...however once they produce something its always solid from the production perspective.
I'm in a few betas for some of the big upcoming games (I won't name which :P). Trust me, the "next gen" MMOs aren't adding all that much from the last gen of MMOs.
So, get ready to play a game for maybe a month or two, then sit and wait for the next big thing to come around.
NGE Refugee.
"I want a MMO with
Spellborn's combat system
LOTR graphics and quest system
Conan's gore and castle raids"
wow is not solid it just apeal to millions becouse its easy brainless grind fest.
If wow had open pvp no instance then it would be much better now it sux big time.
Hope to build full AMD system RYZEN/VEGA/AM4!!!
MB:Asus V De Luxe z77
CPU:Intell Icore7 3770k
GPU: AMD Fury X(waiting for BIG VEGA 10 or 11 HBM2?(bit unclear now))
MEMORY:Corsair PLAT.DDR3 1866MHZ 16GB
PSU:Corsair AX1200i
OS:Windows 10 64bit