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WOW, the McDonalds of the mmorpg world

13

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  • GameloadingGameloading Member UncommonPosts: 14,182



    Originally posted by Anageth



    Originally posted by Gameloading



    Originally posted by Luzario
    WOW is a beginner's mmorpg.  A Mmorpg that is permanently set to "easy" mode.  

    So, can you give me an MMORPG that is hard to play? I'll wait,don't worry.


    EQ2 used to be harder, at launch.



    Everquest 2 wasn't harder at launch. it had a bigger timesink, big diffrence.
  • AnagethAnageth Member Posts: 2,217



    Originally posted by Gameloading



    Originally posted by Anageth



    Originally posted by Gameloading



    Originally posted by Luzario
    WOW is a beginner's mmorpg.  A Mmorpg that is permanently set to "easy" mode.  

    So, can you give me an MMORPG that is hard to play? I'll wait,don't worry.


    EQ2 used to be harder, at launch.



    Everquest 2 wasn't harder at launch. it had a bigger timesink, big diffrence.



    So difficulty != timesink? Timesinks are just ways studios try and make you stay and play, through difficulty, no? I mean, take L2 for instance. I've never played the game, but my housemate told me it's incredibly hard to level, and it keeps you playing. Even though difficulty isn't the same thing as a timesink, one does come out of the other.

    No longer visiting MMORPG.com.

  • GameloadingGameloading Member UncommonPosts: 14,182



    Originally posted by Anageth



    Originally posted by Gameloading



    Originally posted by Anageth



    Originally posted by Gameloading



    Originally posted by Luzario
    WOW is a beginner's mmorpg.  A Mmorpg that is permanently set to "easy" mode.  

    So, can you give me an MMORPG that is hard to play? I'll wait,don't worry.


    EQ2 used to be harder, at launch.



    Everquest 2 wasn't harder at launch. it had a bigger timesink, big diffrence.



    So difficulty != timesink? Timesinks are just ways studios try and make you stay and play, through difficulty, no? I mean, take L2 for instance. I've never played the game, but my housemate told me it's incredibly hard to level, and it keeps you playing. Even though difficulty isn't the same thing as a timesink, one does come out of the other.



    well, taking longer to level up does not make a game harder, it makes the game longer. Its not hard to level up in Lineage 2, it just takes a lot of time. There has never ever been an mmorpg released that required skill.
  • AnagethAnageth Member Posts: 2,217



    Originally posted by Gameloading
    well, taking longer to level up does not make a game harder, it makes the game longer. Its not hard to level up in Lineage 2, it just takes a lot of time. There has never ever been an mmorpg released that required skill.



    Ok, point taken, you're right regarding the difficulty. There is however an MMO which required skill, and that was UO.

    No longer visiting MMORPG.com.

  • GameloadingGameloading Member UncommonPosts: 14,182



    Originally posted by Anageth



    Originally posted by Gameloading
    well, taking longer to level up does not make a game harder, it makes the game longer. Its not hard to level up in Lineage 2, it just takes a lot of time. There has never ever been an mmorpg released that required skill.


    Ok, point taken, you're right regarding the difficulty. There is however an MMO which required skill, and that was UO.




    UO hardly required skill. it was skill based, but didn't require skill. it was easy as pie to play.
  • AnagethAnageth Member Posts: 2,217



    Originally posted by Gameloading



    Originally posted by Anageth



    Originally posted by Gameloading
    well, taking longer to level up does not make a game harder, it makes the game longer. Its not hard to level up in Lineage 2, it just takes a lot of time. There has never ever been an mmorpg released that required skill.


    Ok, point taken, you're right regarding the difficulty. There is however an MMO which required skill, and that was UO.




    UO hardly required skill. it was skill based, but didn't require skill. it was easy as pie to play.

    Odd, I played it from 1999 to 2003, I could definately see a required skill. Pre-AOS, there was no unfair use of high value artifacts and, so in terms of gear everyone was on the same level. So when people are essentially the same in GAME, that means the player himself determines the outcome of a fight.

    It was easy as pie to play, if you wanted to do nothing but mine, or craft. When it came to PvP, trust me you needed skill.

    No longer visiting MMORPG.com.

  • GameloadingGameloading Member UncommonPosts: 14,182



    Originally posted by Anageth



    Originally posted by Gameloading



    Originally posted by Anageth



    Originally posted by Gameloading
    well, taking longer to level up does not make a game harder, it makes the game longer. Its not hard to level up in Lineage 2, it just takes a lot of time. There has never ever been an mmorpg released that required skill.


    Ok, point taken, you're right regarding the difficulty. There is however an MMO which required skill, and that was UO.




    UO hardly required skill. it was skill based, but didn't require skill. it was easy as pie to play.

    Odd, I played it from 1999 to 2003, I could definately see a required skill. Pre-AOS, there was no unfair use of high value artifacts and, so in terms of gear everyone was on the same level. So when people are essentially the same in GAME, that means the player himself determines the outcome of a fight.

    It was easy as pie to play, if you wanted to do nothing but mine, or craft. When it came to PvP, trust me you needed skill.




    Those weren't my experiences with the game. It was still usually the player that spend the most time in the game that would win in PVP. real equal fights were rare. also, PVP was only one part of the game. the PVE part required even less skill.
  • AnagethAnageth Member Posts: 2,217



    Originally posted by Gameloading
    Those weren't my experiences with the game. It was still usually the player that spend the most time in the game that would win in PVP. real equal fights were rare. also, PVP was only one part of the game. the PVE part required even less skill.



    Clearly you played post-AOS.

    No longer visiting MMORPG.com.

  • GameloadingGameloading Member UncommonPosts: 14,182



    Originally posted by Anageth



    Originally posted by Gameloading
    Those weren't my experiences with the game. It was still usually the player that spend the most time in the game that would win in PVP. real equal fights were rare. also, PVP was only one part of the game. the PVE part required even less skill.


    Clearly you played post-AOS.



    I first played in 2000 on the official servers. after that, I played on Pre-trammel private servers (the ones without custom things), neither of them required skill.
  • AnagethAnageth Member Posts: 2,217



    Originally posted by Gameloading



    Originally posted by Anageth



    Originally posted by Gameloading
    Those weren't my experiences with the game. It was still usually the player that spend the most time in the game that would win in PVP. real equal fights were rare. also, PVP was only one part of the game. the PVE part required even less skill.


    Clearly you played post-AOS.



    I first played in 2000 on the official servers. after that, I played on Pre-trammel private servers (the ones without custom things), neither of them required skill.



    Ha, well that explains everything.

    No longer visiting MMORPG.com.

  • vendrisvendris Member Posts: 246

    The OP is complete inaccurate, because the simple fact of the matter is, unlike McDonald's, which makes very bad food, Blizzard has in fact made a very good MMO.  I ended up leaving the game because I'm not a big fan of PVE raiding.  However, for people who enjoy PVE raiding, WoW simply is the best game on the market currently for them.  Blizzard obviously knows their market and they have made a well designed and well executed game for them.  The proof is in their success.

    I can understand not liking WoW.  I don't play it anymore myself.  However, the constant attempts on this forum to portray the game as some poorly made mess of a game that only people who are too retarded to understand how awesome [insert niche MMORPG here] is compared to WoW is getting really old.  It's especially amusing in light of the fact that these forums often hail some up and coming MMO as the messiah that will save us all from WoW, and invariably the game ends up being horrible.  Dark and Light anyone?  Or perhaps Archlord? Oh yes, it's Darkfall that will save the world next right?

    Blizzard made a well designed, solid game, that a lot of people enjoy playing.  Get over it.


  • ArkainArkain Member UncommonPosts: 491

    You might want to try Project Entropia. I played for a time, its not to bad. And for a challenge play without putting money in to the game, with the goal of making enough money to buy your next MMO.

    image
  • SramotaSramota Member Posts: 756

    Some people just have no clue...

    MMOs cost..

    ALOT.
    Devs,
    office(s)
    Support (In many languages, and enough of them)
    GMs
    Servers, repairs and techies

    To take the first layer,
    those things alone cost more money than most mortals see in a lifetime, per MONTH.

    Played so far: 9Dragons, AO, AC, AC2, CoX, DAoC, DF, DnL, DR, DDO, Ent, EvE, EQ, EQ2, FoMK, FFO, Fury, GW, HG:L, HZ, L1, L2, M59, MU, NC1, NC2, PS, PT, R:O, RF:O, RYL, Ryzom, SL, SB, SW:G, TR, TCoS, MX:O, UO, VG, WAR, WoW...
    It all sucked.

  • NetromancerNetromancer Member Posts: 9

    The truth of the matter is that people like the game. I do play WoW, but its to keep in touch with RL friends and for a casual gameplay experience. More of a pitstop till other games come out. (Age of Conan,LOTR) Having played many MMO's I feel it all boils down to one thing, what you like.

    When EVERY one  of my online friends went from Ultima Online to EQ1, I was pissed. I hated the forced grouping, and ive had some seriously bad situations with other players and with gameplay in general. But how can I bag on EQ because people like it and are playing it? My opinion doesnt shape the world's view.

    WoW is far from perfect, and it also has one of the most immature, hostile communities Ive ever encountered, it has a very carebear-ish system, but it does have its positive aspects too. Im not saying "WoW is good, you should like it." Im saying its all opinion. What we like, someone else might not, and vice versa.

    Play what you like, have fun. Thats what these games are really all about. Thank god we have the game choices we have now. image

    "The touch is cold
    I tore a path screaming through wind and blood
    I will it all
    Burning deep in my skull"
    -Mastodon "Crystal Skull"

  • nomadiannomadian Member Posts: 3,490



    So, can you give me an MMORPG that is hard to play? I'll wait,don't worry.

    It isn't about one extreme or another, you don't go from easy to excessively hard. Generally, WoW IS easier than most mmorpgs, that is no secret since they wanted it to be accessible not frustrating.

  • GameloadingGameloading Member UncommonPosts: 14,182



    Originally posted by nomadian





    So, can you give me an MMORPG that is hard to play? I'll wait,don't worry.

    It isn't about one extreme or another, you don't go from easy to excessively hard. Generally, WoW IS easier than most mmorpgs, that is no secret since they wanted it to be accessible not frustrating.




    I honnestly fail how WoW is easier then other MMORPG's. its mroe accessible, but not easier.
  • nomadiannomadian Member Posts: 3,490
    Ok I'll compare it to EQ.
    WoW
    -Simplified quests.
    -Easy travelling
    -Simplified group dynamics:
     -in EQ an enchanter was fragile, tanks and healer's jobs were crucial. The mage which plays the same role gets no aggro from sheep.
    -in EQ you had runners which were unforgiving in where they went, in WoW running mobs will go as far as avoiding mobs half the time.
    -In WoW, most classes can slow a runner, EQ it was a minority.
    -Casting times, casting times means you had to anticipate in advance. WoW you have many instant spells.
    -Soloing, every class can look after themselves in WoW and can solo effectively with very little difficulty.
    -Items in EQ meant alot more than in WoW, in WoW you can just more or less wear anything and progress.
    -Resists, fizzles.

    I'm not saying EQ was hard, but I'd say EQ was more challenging though admittedly it did have a few 'auto-attack' classes which were very simple, in general it was 'harder' as far as the word goes. WoW in comparison has been designed so everyone can get into the game. So in my opinion, while WoW is not super-easy, I'd definitely say it is lower on the difficulty level which is kind of what the game strives to achieve. Apart from perhaps its later raiding.





  • protorocprotoroc Member Posts: 1,042

    Originally posted by Cymek
    There was an editorial on this site a few weeks back talking about why WoW is so popular. One of the reasons was "easy to learn, hard to master". This couldn't be more true.




    Easy to learn, Hard to master??????? I disagree with that 300% WOW is easy to learn and master. None of the classes require ANY difficulty whatsoever. Fact is every single class is ezmode, even healers got it soft in WOW, they whine and bitch about being burnt out pffft try playing a real MMO where one misplaced overheal wipes all the healers then wipes the other 40-60 people at the raid (Classic AO). Fact is a chimpanzee can be trained to play WOW and would prolly do better then half of WOWs population
  • GameloadingGameloading Member UncommonPosts: 14,182



    Originally posted by nomadian
    Ok I'll compare it to EQ.
    WoW
    -Simplified quests.
    -Easy travelling
    -Simplified group dynamics:
     -in EQ an enchanter was fragile, tanks and healer's jobs were crucial. The mage which plays the same role gets no aggro from sheep.
    -in EQ you had runners which were unforgiving in where they went, in WoW running mobs will go as far as avoiding mobs half the time.
    -In WoW, most classes can slow a runner, EQ it was a minority.
    -Casting times, casting times means you had to anticipate in advance. WoW you have many instant spells.
    -Soloing, every class can look after themselves in WoW and can solo effectively with very little difficulty.
    -Items in EQ meant alot more than in WoW, in WoW you can just more or less wear anything and progress.
    -Resists, fizzles.

    I'm not saying EQ was hard, but I'd say EQ was more challenging though admittedly it did have a few 'auto-attack' classes which were very simple, in general it was 'harder' as far as the word goes. WoW in comparison has been designed so everyone can get into the game. So in my opinion, while WoW is not super-easy, I'd definitely say it is lower on the difficulty level which is kind of what the game strives to achieve. Apart from perhaps its later raiding.




    I disagree with that. although the classes are build slightly diffrent, I really didn't find grouping any harder in EQ then in WoW. quests were the same in both games. I'm not convinced EQ is any harder then WoW.
  • NierroNierro Member UncommonPosts: 1,755
    Roin I like how you called everyone with opposite veiwpoints to yours a moron. 


    image
  • KnightblastKnightblast Member UncommonPosts: 1,787

    Originally posted by nomadian
    Ok I'll compare it to EQ.
    WoW
    -Simplified quests.

    I think this is more of an improvement than anything else.  It's simply annoying to have to hunt around and guess where things are, rather than "difficult".  There's a difference between "difficult" and "annoying".

    -Easy travelling

    Same here.  More annoying than difficult.  And as it is, there are significant travel times in WoW for most classes.

    The mage which plays the same role gets no aggro from sheep.

    Sure he does.  The sheep aggro the mage as soon as the spell wears off, but a good tank will attack the sheep first to prevent that.

    -in EQ you had runners which were unforgiving in where they went, in WoW running mobs will go as far as avoiding mobs half the time.

    Meh, it scales.  In the upper level dungeons the runners almost always run to BAF.

    -Casting times, casting times means you had to anticipate in advance. WoW you have many instant spells.

    I'd say it's a mix of instacasts and casting times, with the more powerful spells being casting time spells, which makes sense.

    -Soloing, every class can look after themselves in WoW and can solo effectively with very little difficulty.

    People can solo the solo content.  People can't solo BWL.

    -Items in EQ meant alot more than in WoW, in WoW you can just more or less wear anything and progress.

    Eh ... WoW is very item dependent.  Yes, the game is designed so people can progress from 1-60 in their own way, but if you want to be effective, or to PvP, items are pretty important.  For some classes, like Druids, itemization *is* the game.  Pretty offbase comment it seems to me.

    -Resists, fizzles.

    WoW has resists as well. 

    WoW in comparison has been designed so everyone can get into the game.

    But that's different from "difficult".  All MMOs are about learning how to play your character and knowing when to push the right combination of buttons.  All of them.  WoW is no different.  All WoW did was take away a lot of the annoying stuff that masquerades in other games as "difficult" when in fact it's just annoying.




  • nomadiannomadian Member Posts: 3,490



    I disagree with that. although the classes are build slightly diffrent, I really didn't find grouping any harder in EQ then in WoW. quests were the same in both games. I'm not convinced EQ is any harder then WoW.
    Well you are welcome to your opinion, but from my experience of both games I would say it was a nobrainer. In fact, I'd urge you to play both games today, mine stems from a recent contrast and the difference is clearly apparent.
  • nomadiannomadian Member Posts: 3,490



    I think this is more of an improvement than anything else. It's simply annoying to have to hunt around and guess where things are, rather than "difficult". There's a difference between "difficult" and "annoying".

    Improvement, whereby every quest is collect x items? I admit quests in EQ weren't difficult especially when most people allakhazamed but there was a difference.


    Same here. More annoying than difficult. And as it is, there are significant travel times in WoW for most classes.
    I'd disagree, you can just get a gryphon ride or take paths anywhere forgoing any sort of aggro. EQ the journey from Qeynos to Freeport wasn't easy. (1) You'd have to learn the way (2) You'd had to know the zones, and they weren't straightforward (3) It was a long way back from being binded wherever you were binded.


    Sure he does. The sheep aggro the mage as soon as the spell wears off, but a good tank will attack the sheep first to prevent that.
    One of the classes I play in WoW is a mage, and the aggro of an enchanter mez was ALOT more than the aggro of a sheep. A tank doesn't even have to taunt in WoW, in fact any class just has to damage it and they remove any 'sheep aggro' there is.


    Eh ... WoW is very item dependent. Yes, the game is designed so people can progress from 1-60 in their own way, but if you want to be effective, or to PvP, items are pretty important. For some classes, like Druids, itemization *is* the game. Pretty offbase comment it seems to me.
    Ok I didn't fully explain what I mean here. But what I'm saying is items aren't very critical compared to what they were in EQ. For example, you start at level 1 in EQ you could have a rusty dagger which did rubbish damage, equivalently in WoW the weapon you start with is equivalent to a very good weapon in EQ.


    WoW has resists as well.
    Yes it does, but they weren't so critical as in EQ where you would have a mana bar which you had to be ALOT more careful with. A mez resist could mean a dead enchanter in EQ, in WoW the mage just has to cast sheep again.


    But that's different from "difficult". All MMOs are about learning how to play your character and knowing when to push the right combination of buttons. All of them. WoW is no different. All WoW did was take away a lot of the annoying stuff that masquerades in other games as "difficult" when in fact it's just annoying.

    I'm not saying it was difficult but there was a bigger learning curve. WoW has been designed so ANY of it's audience can do it's content. Anyone from the two year old kid to the 60 year old. It's ease in comparison is plainly clear to me, and this is not from a nostalgic mind, this is from not only a recent contrast but actually looking at the experiences objectively and to me and many other EQers, there is a little more difficulty in EQ than there is in WoW.

  • exanimoexanimo Member UncommonPosts: 1,301


    Originally posted by MassivePvP

    World of Warcraft.  7.5 Million accounts now.  The very basic, simple and no consequences for death or being stupid mmo.  Tons of kiddies.  Lots of really inmature kiddies.  Popularity so insane that this game box really should have Ronald McDonald on the cover with his thumbs up.  Maybe for the upcoming expansion, they could even give a free kiddie meal coupon at McDonalds with the purchase.  Yay.  Then they could sell even more.This game looks from the numbers to be hauling in over ONE BILLION US dollars per year now.  How is that for insanity?  That is a LOT of money!  Think about it.  That's over a thousand millions.  That's hard, cold cash and most of that is pure profit for Blizzard.  Hell, atleast McDonalds has a LOT more overhead costs then Blizzard with WOW.  McDonalds has to buy locations around the world, they need to pay tens of thousands of employees to work around the clock, they need to buy tons of bread and potatoes and beef.  McDonalds.  WoW.  Really very much the same when you stop and think about it.  Both are really cute.  They both appeal to young and old alike.  McDonalds has simple menus to read.  WoW has very simple hotbars to read and use.  Both are used in the hundreds of thousands each and every day.  Both are very addicting.I have a stand alone mom and pop hamburger joint in my home town.  They actually grill real hamburger meat that they form in their kitchen as opposed to the pre-formed factory packaged patties at McDonalds.  The local burger place uses fresh LOCAL vegetables like lettuce and hand sliced tomatoes and onions.  The buns are baked in their own kitchen from a home-made recipe.  The fries are hand cut and rinsed just before being cooked.  The difference between my hometown local burger joint and the McDonalds is like night and day.  The quality and care given at my hometown joint blows the McDonalds care and quality away so much it's not even funny.  My hometown burger joint is downtown off of the beaten path just a little.  The McDonalds sits flashing it's neon sign 24/7 right by the only major intererstate crossing through my town.  I'd guess that McDonalds probably sells about 100 times the volume of meals that my hometown joint does.  Listening to all the WoW fanbois on this site scream how WoW is the greatest mmo ever made is about like listening to my 3 year old throw a tantrum screaming he doesn't want to go to the mom and pop burger joint, but wants to go to McDonalds instead and get their wonderful kiddie toy.  It's really no different.  WoW is a good game for what it was made for.  Just as McDonalds is good at a quick, fast, cheap meal to fill up an empy spot in your stomach.  Both are very simple, very basic, and aiked at the masses of the population, esepcially targeting the kids.  They know that kids will sweet talk their parents into going where they want.MMOs like Ultima Online, Everquest, Asheron's Call, EvE online, and Saga of Ryzom are like the mom and pop joint in my hometown.  Only a small fraction of the customers.  But the quality found in each just blows the doors away off of the depth and challenge found in a simple game like WoW.You WoW fanbois can argue till you are blue in the face at how much better WoW is then the classics that still run strong today.  You can point at the numbers and neon signs of McDonalds which is pretty much the same as the pretty graphics found in WoW.  I don't care.  And neither does anyone who knows the difference between a REAL high quality mmo and one just made pretty, simple, and quickly to attract the kids and the masses.  Hmmm, actual flame broiled burger with local fresh beef cooked with care on home-madce bread with fresh local vegetables and freshly cut home style fries  -or- soy filled cheap pre-formed patties put on bulk purchased cheap buns with factory packaged vegetables and factory frozen fries??I know which one I want.  And it isn't the massively popular option.  The same goes with my mmo selection.


    nice read , that was fun ::::02::

    like mac donalds , wow is going to be around for a long time .

  • OhaanOhaan Member UncommonPosts: 568

    Originally posted by vendris
    The OP is complete inaccurate, because the simple fact of the matter is, unlike McDonald's, which makes very bad food, Blizzard has in fact made a very good MMO.  I ended up leaving the game because I'm not a big fan of PVE raiding.  However, for people who enjoy PVE raiding, WoW simply is the best game on the market currently for them.  Blizzard obviously knows their market and they have made a well designed and well executed game for them.  The proof is in their success.


    Blizzard made a well designed, solid game, that a lot of people enjoy playing.  Get over it.

    You are saying that McD's, the most successful fast-food franchise in the world makes a very bad product whereas WoW, the most successful MMO, is a very good product? Bro, as you said the proof is in their success; your criticism is illogical.

    I do agree with the rest however.


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