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NO grinding please.
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I know that but what I'm saying is they can go at their own pace now instead of the gruelling nature it is now. Ie they don't have to get x amount of honor in a week to advance rank, it is cumulative as far I understand.
It could be. There are a number of directions things could take, really. Guild Wars has demonstrated that a F2P model can present a real challenge to the current business model for traditional MMOs. If a developer were to create a GW with a bit more of a persistent world feel, but also F2P, that would place a lot more pressure on the traditional MMO developers to up their game design efforts. Already, GW has had an impact on this. More efforts like it which are more expansive themselves would really increase the pressure as people begin to question what they are really paying for to begin with.
I do agree that something has to give. The industry can't just keep serving up "a better version of EQ" (or a "better version of WoW", as people will eventually be saying) and have people satisfied with it over the long term.
I know that but what I'm saying is they can go at their own pace now instead of the gruelling nature it is now. Ie they don't have to get x amount of honor in a week to advance rank, it is cumulative as far I understand.
That's how I understand it as well, but what I was disagreeing slightly with was that this would mean that people are going to be PvPing for fun. I think people will be doing it for the rewards, in terms of their motivation, and if they are motivated by the rewards they will grind it, because people tend to grind things when they are motivated by the rewards. If the system is still such that Alterac Valley will earn much more honor than the other BGs, I think it will be similar to now in that people who are PvPing for honor gain and rewards will be "running" AV again and again and again to stockpile honor. The difference with the new system is that people will have a chance to get the top rewards if they are willing to keep at it for long enough to stockpile that much honor, whereas under the current system you don't have that option. But I don't expect the new system to change the "motivation" for BG PvP much at all, really.
MMORPGs don't start at endgame, and that's why I don't play them. I pick up a single player game and I jump into it and (usually) start having fun right away. I don't pick up a single player game, play a "subgame" that's equivalent in entertainment to one of those flash games where you get points by clicking on things as they float past, and do this for 20 hours _before_ I can start playing the real game. And 20 hours is nothing compared to what MMORPGs do.
I do play Guild Wars, but I am starting to get tired of the PvE in that game.
I do play Guild Wars, but I am starting to get tired of the PvE in that game.
Well, but there are MMOs that have fun during the levelling phase as well, it's just generally not the ones that a grinding-orientated.
Yea well fps are ok but there just as much cheating and crap on them. esp aim bots and that's a whole new subject for a different forum now isn't it?... Like I said b4 my xfire doesn't show all game time. I only use xfire about half the time so don't try to judge
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If dev teams wanted to know what we as a whole wanted in an MMORPG they would come here and ask in the storyline and write up stage of their game design. A friend of mine is talking about developing a true rpg. This may be a couple of years away as we are still in the basic design stages.
Like I said b4 if you want to grind do so, I just feel that if you don't want to, you really shouldn't have to constantly to get to max lvl.
A "regular" singleplayer adventure/rpg game takes what, 3-4 days to play through? I think I did the storyline in oblivion in about a week, and then spent another few days reaching my level soft-cap.
If you can think of a way to combine the two; quests the quality of singleplayer rpg's that keep you at the edge of your seat for years, then we'd all really like to hear it.
I don't mind how mmogs currently work. I don't play them for the quests/missions, I play them for the interaction with other people. This is why I enjoy the "grindy" mmo's with a good pvp model. I like it when they can be played primarily as a social/political game, where the grind is just the basis of it all and something you do in the background. Not many games currently offer this, as so many games are so hesitant to "force" you into pvp.
CoH is an example of this. You don't *need* to build a network and make friends to reach the top as you can do it alone. There is no reason to pvp but you "can if you want to", altho there is little to no risk or reward involved.
I played Guild Wars for half a week before I started to use the term "grinding quests". Once me and my friends finished the series of missions, we pvp'ed a bit, realised there was no purpose in pvp, and quit. GW is a great game, but it's an example of a game with no incentive to play after you've completed all the "can only be completed once" content.
I enjoy mmo's where you can't reach the top without working with other people (seriously, what's the point of an mmo where you can solo?), where pvp has a purpose and reward, and is an integral part of the game instead of something on the side. The "grind" is hardly a factor for me as long as these things are there.
All MMOs are a grind because your character doesn't reach it's full potential as soon as you hit the "create character" button. You grind to make your character more powerful, be it for XP or money or whatever. Whether you're running quests or farming mob spawns doesn't matter, it's still a grind either way.
The trick is making it fun to grind. Unfortunately the current trends seem to be based on the false premise that "fun grinding" = killing the same mob over and over again or running through cookie cutter quests.
Faur,
We all agree that WoW is successful. Lvl 1-60 has no grind if you are a grouper. There are enough quests to get you to lvl 60. According to PlayOn it takes on average 20.3 hours to get to lvl 59. I use this to base my claim that years of content isn't needed for an mmorpg to be succesful. Not counting endgame, WoW only has a little over 20 hours of content.
My point is that years of content isn't needed for success. A little over 20 days is sufficient. Admittedly, it is the endgame that grind becomes imho understandable to keep players subscribed after they reach lvl cap.
The rest of your post made sense. I only felt the need to address the first two paragraphs.
Guild Wars 2 is my religion
Every mmo/game still has a grind imo 20 lvls, 50 levels, 80 levels, 90, skillbased... whatever, its all grind.
You should accept that progressing a character takes a bit of time nomatter what you play.
www.mmorpgnucleus.com
What Journey?
How many actually have fun in most mmorpg "journey" that is repeatable killing same frog spawn (because anything higher than that would insta kill you) or do quest that arent any innovative, but keep making you killing these same frongs or quests run from A to B. Same thing repeat at higher level and there is new grinds like item grind. I am not talking about racing it, but how fast or slow you do it's still same crap in most mmorpgs.
Maybe more mmorpg developers should take example of what Anet have done with GW and make mmorpgs that have fun journey from 0 -> max level. GW is most well balanced and fun mmorpg I have ever played with some very innovative quests.
What Journey?
How many actually have fun in most mmorpg "journey" that is repeatable killing same frog spawn (because anything higher than that would insta kill you) or do quest that arent any innovative, but keep making you killing these same frongs or quests run from A to B. Same thing repeat at higher level and there is new grinds like item grind. I am not talking about racing it, but how fast or slow you do it's still same crap in most mmorpgs.
Maybe more mmorpg developers should take example of what Anet have done with GW and make mmorpgs that have fun journey from 0 -> max level. GW is most well balanced and fun mmorpg I have ever played with some very innovative quests.
I had a lot fun playing early EQ1 prior to Planes of Power. EQ1 was a grind at times but honestly I don't mind grinding and can say I enjoy the simplicity of it at times. The key for me is to mix things up depending on what kind of mood I am in, some questing , some crafting, some adventuring, some exploring, some roleplaying, and yes some grinding. You have to earn your skills and levels, and the instant gratification players want everything handed to them. I like the feeling I get from earning things, even if it means grinding for them.
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Brad McQuaid
Chairman & CEO, Sigil Games Online, Inc.
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What Journey?
How many actually have fun in most mmorpg "journey" that is repeatable killing same frog spawn (because anything higher than that would insta kill you) or do quest that arent any innovative, but keep making you killing these same frongs or quests run from A to B. Same thing repeat at higher level and there is new grinds like item grind. I am not talking about racing it, but how fast or slow you do it's still same crap in most mmorpgs.
Maybe more mmorpg developers should take example of what Anet have done with GW and make mmorpgs that have fun journey from 0 -> max level. GW is most well balanced and fun mmorpg I have ever played with some very innovative quests.
I had tons of fun doing these things in WoW. Thanks for generalizing though.
If your idea is good, you actually have a greater chance of your idea being implemented then a native speaker. The reason why is weight. The foriegners idea has already been filtered by the devs, it also probably has community support. So it holds a bit more weight then 1 individual suggesting an idea. Also the devs are usually in frequent contact with thier distributers in foriegn markets.
What Journey?
How many actually have fun in most mmorpg "journey" that is repeatable killing same frog spawn (because anything higher than that would insta kill you) or do quest that arent any innovative, but keep making you killing these same frongs or quests run from A to B. Same thing repeat at higher level and there is new grinds like item grind. I am not talking about racing it, but how fast or slow you do it's still same crap in most mmorpgs.
Maybe more mmorpg developers should take example of what Anet have done with GW and make mmorpgs that have fun journey from 0 -> max level. GW is most well balanced and fun mmorpg I have ever played with some very innovative quests.
I had a lot fun playing early EQ1 prior to Planes of Power. EQ1 was a grind at times but honestly I don't mind grinding and can say I enjoy the simplicity of it at times. The key for me is to mix things up depending on what kind of mood I am in, some questing , some crafting, some adventuring, some exploring, some roleplaying, and yes some grinding. You have to earn your skills and levels, and the instant gratification players want everything handed to them. I like the feeling I get from earning things, even if it means grinding for them.
I also like earning things, but not by earning them by wasting a lot of time killing some frogs thousan times.
"Instant gratification" players want game where they can have fun and compete day 1 *gasp*. That doesn't mean everything will be handed to them. In GW you can start PvP day one with pvp char, but that doesn't make you good and in gw you actually have lot of player skill(not just character) in pvp without level inbalanced crap.
Getting level 20 in PvE takes couple days even casual play, but thats just begining and wount make good enough that you can get master rewards from all quests simply because you got level 20.
What Journey?
How many actually have fun in most mmorpg "journey" that is repeatable killing same frog spawn (because anything higher than that would insta kill you) or do quest that arent any innovative, but keep making you killing these same frongs or quests run from A to B. Same thing repeat at higher level and there is new grinds like item grind. I am not talking about racing it, but how fast or slow you do it's still same crap in most mmorpgs.
Maybe more mmorpg developers should take example of what Anet have done with GW and make mmorpgs that have fun journey from 0 -> max level. GW is most well balanced and fun mmorpg I have ever played with some very innovative quests.
While GW overall was a cool game for what it was, I disliked GW's quests because I didn't feel like I was making my own choices. It felt like I was playing a singleplayer game, the same series of missions that every single other player trudged through.
I enjoy open mmo's where you're free to write your own story. I enjoyed ryzom and L2 where they take you off the newbie island and you can start deciding yourself what you want to do.
Sure, you're limited to a certain type of mobs, but that's still heaps better than being told "do this. Ok, now do this. Good work! You followed the instructions! Now do this..". I feel a greater sense of achievement by working out how to progress myself.
In all the mmo's I've played, only in L2, ryzom, and pre-cu SWG did it feel like my character had his own unique background. I have tons of stories and screenshots of adventures only me and my friends experienced that weren't pre-written or scripted. This is one of those details that is the reason I play mmo's and not plot-based adventure/rpg's.
The Agency will have no grind whatsoever.
You got me there.
To OP: Try a RP enforced, pvp MUD. Same kind of leveling but you also get a small involved community, and fun rp and pvp situations.
Or try a first person shooter, TF2 is a great time. That's what I'm playing at the moment.
As far as MMOs go, I found CoV CoH to be action packed. I had fun while I leveled.
The OP is long gone. This thread is over a year old.