Originally posted by DrowNoble I think Amathe misunderstood my statement about real life and games. I am absolutely not condoning what Serenity Now did. My point was that Serenity Now apparently couldn't separate an ingame mechanic (open pvp) and a real life event (funeral). So yes, calling me and laughing at my loss or sending disrepectful email would also be umm... inappropriate to put it mildly. I bet even today, that in /gu chat Serenity Now probably still brags about it to themselves. People like that disgust me and are the minority gankers that give the majority pvpers a bad name. Oh and sorry Amathe if I sounded like I was sympathizing with them. I definately was not nor was any of my post meant to be sympathic in any way to Serenity Now.
I think anyone who tries to hold a "real-life" event within the confines of a game universe is either asking for trouble to get attention, or utterly clueless beyond hope.
It's sad that someone died. It's sad that their friends' feelings got hurt when their ceremony got disrupted. It's pathetic that they picked one of the high-level contested zones on a PvP server to hold their ceremony, as if the whole rest of the player population was supposed to stop playing their game because someone they didn't know and had never heard of was trying to emote about somone else they didn't know and had never heard of.
Even on a Role Playing server, I would still expect some less reputable characters (note the use of the word, not players) to try something at such an event.
As for people acting like they do in real life.... some do, some don't. I hope you aren't one of those people who thinks actors all behave just like the characters they play on television? Some people role play very different personalities in games, for fun, for the challenge of staying in character, or just to let off steam doing things they know they can't ever do in life. That's the point. It's a game. When things in the game start having consequences in your real life, it's time to stop playing and go outside.
Oh yes, I believe part of the topic was about open PvP? WoW is not actually open PvP. WoW is a two-sided conflict with areas of contested space. In real open PvP, any player could attack any other player, regardless of allegence. WoW doesn't have the mechanics to allow double agents, backstabbing, and playing groups against one another. When I used to play regularly, there were many times I "worked with" Alliance players who happened to be out grinding or questing next to me, and many other times I would have loved to kill obnoxious fellow horde players who trained mobs on me, or ninja'd herbs while I was fighting.
I enjoy the suspension of disbelief when I watch a movie or get into the story of a game. Roleplaying is fun.
Roleplaying on a PVP server can't happen until there is some sense to the PVP like wars that have clear victors vs. being able to run right back into the fray 2 seconds after you die. No fun for me since it comes down to who has the better connection, tighter mod or more expensive computer more often than who knows what buttons to push. Give me a PVP server where I'm locked out of combat for an hour after I die and I'd give it a go.
Sadly most of the people that play PVP would buy "Bucket o' Blood" PVP games with no story just to see how many times they can up their kill count. Plus all the people who like to complain about how much it suxx0rs and otherwise feel like what they have to say means anything against profits. (Like I'm doing here. )
While it's true that people use online games for socializing, PVP games are't built to cater to it. Yet? WoW isn't about social responsibility, it's about killing. Name one MMORPG that isn't.
It's a failing on the faceless gaming community to turn to a faceless medium to try to fill their emotional vaccuum, not the writers of a game. To find those who actually play the game the way the the way the game is designed only surprises those who blur the lines between gaming and social responsibility. To expect EVERYone who PAYS to play a PVP game to one day NOT PVP earns a big "Dur-de-durrr!" Award in my book.
While "it's just a game" and the beauty of the ambush should be applauded. Too many people personally identify with their little pixels and zero's and one's far more than is healthy.
Bottom line for me is if you don't like PVP every day you play, play a different game or shut up.
I play PVP until I can't enjoy the actual game because the PVP is non-stop and senseless for anything more than point counts and one upmanship. Since I gain no personal satisfaction from that in a game, I play games where PVP is optional or cooperative play is all their is.
Weddings in game? Funerals in game that aren't for your character you're deleting? Creepy to say the least, but for some (sadly) the only outlet they have.
Discuss the emotional stability of a million people who pay for the fantasy of a made up world taking the place of a real life ceremony or who intellilgently don't switch to a medium that is designed for such a thing at least.
Never browbeat people who play games the way they are written. That makes you as creepy as those who turn to a gaming community for social responsibility.
There. I feel important now. If this was a PVP server, about halfway through this someone would have killed me, it would have frustrated the hell out of me and I would have switched to a non-PVP forum and never looked back. I can see the video on South Park now.
Originally posted by FflarnExactly right. The internet has become the modern day 'The Invisible Man'. No one knows who you really are. You suffer no consequences for your behavior once you log off the game, or onto an alt. Make no mistake though, those of you who log onto these online games and forums and glorify in being the biggest Ahole you can be, thats exactly what you are at the core.
To be blunt... I agree. It's rather tiring to read people sanctimoniusly defending the attackers (while at the same time mocking the group who wanted to say good-bye to a friend). Sure it's a game, but from what I've read here, the non-gaming event was announced as such. It's obvious the event was intended as a sort of video conference with 3D "avatars." I imagine most of the people at the activity would not be able to attend the actual one in real life, since they probably live in different parts of the country or even the world. It tickles me silly to hear some callng the event "disturbing" while at the same time callously giving thumbs up to the A-orifices "assertiveness."
If it had been a "funeral" for an actual *fictive* character in the game (not a real person), hey, invite me to the ambush. It wasn't, though.
I would tend to agree that the decision to hold the event in a PvP area instead of a "safer" area was kind of shortsighted. The organizers must have been aware of "quality" of some of the people playing there, and that they were leaving themselves open to low-lifers that get off doing colorful stunts like that. Nevertheless, that does not detract from the puerile behavior (to say the least) of the "attackers," who (as far as I can tell from these posts) knew in advance the event would be an online get-together of people who could not do so in real life due to geographical barriers, and not a gaming (or even RPG) event.
Couldn't the "attackers," um, play with themeselves like for an hour while that other group held the service? Was that too much to ask? From the constant parroting of the belittling (and tiresome) mantra "it's only a game," it appears that the answer for some is "yes."
I just wanted to add my voice firmly to those shaking their heads at the obvious immatiurity of the "attackers." Didn't want to take a "neutral" or "compromising" stand. The middle of the road is the worse place to drive.
It's just a game. If one wants to really wants to honor someone's memory, go to thier funeral. The character didn't die, the account is still somewhere. The girl died. A real friend would go to thier friend's funeral.PERIOD.Holding an in game funeral for an avatar is silly.Many people who knew this character only knew the character.They did not know the person behind the toon.It wasn't "Agmar The Mighty "'s funeral. it was John Smith.One more thing....It IS a PVP server.THATS IT!!! The people doing the ganking clearly didn't know John Smith, and weren't bothered by his passing.They saw an in game opportunity to get some kills for thier record.This is thier pass-time as well, and they use the time as they can and as they're allowed.
This being said, death is tragic. Dying young is VERY tragic.But these events being talked about were in a videogame.Bottomline, is VIDEOGAME. They didnt show up to the real life funeral and start kicking over coffins and such.Though sensative to some, it;s not that big a deal or that great a crime.In my opinion, if you make a huge deal of this event, you are WAY to sensitive and should stay away from online gaming. Just plug in your nintendo and some good old fashioned mario brothers.No drama there.
Originally posted by rpgmachine On a final note, it is never a good idea to compare in game ethics to any kind of real life equivalent...it's pretty self explanatory why they are totally different things.
You are quite mistaken.
We are never challenged more in our ethical behavior than when we can "get away" with something. For example, look at the crime sprees you see in the wake of a natural disaster, with looting, rape, and murder. Why does that happen? Because people are suddenly in a position where they can get away with doing things they would otherwise be answerable for doing. You don't really know if you are an ethical person or not until you can choose right from wrong without any consequence other than the knowledge of what kind of person your behavior makes you.
If you go online and act like a jerk just because you can get away with it, don't think for a moment that doesn't reflect on your moral character or lack of it. You will not be punished - other than the knowledge that you are in fact an asshole.
I understand what you are saying, but I don't agree with your reasoning and comparison of the real world to a virtual world.
I'm not saying that arseholes don't flourish on the internet...because that is obvious. A great deal, if not ALL people will act and do things differently when given the prospect of anonymity, online of offline. However, trying to apply this notion to an environment where people are free to roleplay and "act" via a virtual avatar is short sighted. It's a very popular and easy viewpoint to say a person's in-game actions are a reflection of their true personality...personally I find Teamspeak to be a better indicator of character, and even that is inaccurate sometimes.
What I actually said before was not to compare virtual events to their real-life equivalent. People completely overreact when subjects like this are tackled...in reality, what happened? Some virtual characters got "killed" and needed to respawn. The sentiment behind their mourning didn't change, the fact that they cared about a friend that died didn't change. Those are the things that matter.
If the mourner's feelings were hurt because of the actions of a ganksquad on a rampage, to be honest they are missing the point. They aren't mourning the loss of "XxXGandalfXxX", they are mourning for a real, flesh and blood person. Expecting a vast majority of people to hold any sort of serious respect for a virtual funeral is unrealistic, even more so when the proceeding is to be held in a PVP zone.
At the end of the day, a lot of people play MMO's so they do not have to deal with real life crap, let alone anybody else's emotional baggage. As far as I am concerned, in a virtual world, as long as people are playing their subscription fees and aren't cheating they have the right to do whatever they please. Does that mean that sometimes people get upset? Yes, undoubtedly, but I'd personally rather have it that way than play online in an overly controlled and sterile environment.
The bottom line is, don't take virtual events too seriously. Not everybody will view the game in the same light as you do and they all have the right to their own playstyles. If you put an inappropriate level of emotional attachment into something which you have no inherent control over, you are performing the virtual equivalent riding a motorbike blindfolded and expecting to get home safely.
Does any of this have anything to do with Open PvP...No, not really, but still it's a lesson that a great deal of people it seems have yet to learn.
Originally posted by Akunai I think it's a little funny that so many are saying that it's just a game so don't do anything so serious, or don't take it so seriously. Then the same people are saying that it's a real war, and in wars there isn't room for morality. It's either an insignificant game or a real down and out war, pretty sure it can't be both. A bit convenient to think of it just as a game when you do something to make you look like an ahole, but then think of it as a war to justify your actions. The funeral was attacked with the express purpose of being aholes, from their own statements. So if you want to back them up, don't kid yourself, you're an ahole by association. I don't see why it would be so hard for someone to restrain themselves from disrupting the funeral of an RL person for 1hour out of 1day. It takes a certain type to not be able to stay away from a funeral. Rationalize it all you want, fact remains that they had the choice to walk by this girl's grave, join the service, or spit on her grave. They chose to knowingly spit, personally I would've walked by. I know someone might say it is a game and a war, but in a game-war there are lines you don't cross without branding yourself as dishonorable. Spawn camping, griefing, speed hacks, etc etc and we all know what those lines are so don't act like it's a new concept to have honor in online PvP. If you want to align yourself with the honorless, that is your prerogative. If you're having trouble with what honor is or isn't, look it up. On a sidenote, I don't usually wish death on people, but I make the exception for those who devalue the lives of others. I don't know if anyone here, or those involved in the event, are or were making light of the girl's death....but if they are or were...I hope they stop breathing...I hope very hard.
Couldn't agree more.
What p*sses me off the most is that 99% of the "hardcore" (ie. I'll gank your lvl 15 with my lvl 60 just because I can, red = dead n00b!) WoW PvP players are just little sh*ts that are too wimpy to even play true open PvP, or participate in any kind of system where being a jerk might actually have some repercussions.
well, obviously the people who planned the funeral were a bunch of noobs for not hireing a guild to guard them at said funeral. that being said, they deserved to get ganked for having such an open procession. long live the memory of the person whom actually died in RL but comeon people, this is a game, and gamers gamed and players got played, thats all there is to it, it happens every single day!
Originally posted by sithlordb It's just a game. If one wants to really wants to honor someone's memory, go to thier funeral. The character didn't die, the account is still somewhere. The girl died. A real friend would go to thier friend's funeral.PERIOD.Holding an in game funeral for an avatar is silly.Many people who knew this character only knew the character.They did not know the person behind the toon.It wasn't "Agmar The Mighty "'s funeral. it was John Smith.One more thing....It IS a PVP server.THATS IT!!! The people doing the ganking clearly didn't know John Smith, and weren't bothered by his passing.They saw an in game opportunity to get some kills for thier record.This is thier pass-time as well, and they use the time as they can and as they're allowed. This being said, death is tragic. Dying young is VERY tragic.But these events being talked about were in a videogame.Bottomline, is VIDEOGAME. They didnt show up to the real life funeral and start kicking over coffins and such.Though sensative to some, it;s not that big a deal or that great a crime.In my opinion, if you make a huge deal of this event, you are WAY to sensitive and should stay away from online gaming. Just plug in your nintendo and some good old fashioned mario brothers.No drama there.
Because everyone can easily get time off of work/school and afford to buy tickets and fly in as far away as Australia right?
There is a reason it was being held online. It's just a video game, but it's real people playing it.
This is a game, and MUST be treated like one at all cost. So as not to blurr out the fine line between RL ( real life) and IG ( in game)
It puzzles me that the ones holding the funeral did not arrange it to be held in a safe location. Even thou it's an extremely emotional issue for them, they should still anticipate things like this.
quote:"It is reasonable to argue that individuals in a guild are role playing to the fullest extent by acting on valuable intel regarding the location of a vulnerable target. It is, however, just as reasonable to expect a peaceful gathering of mourners to remain undisturbed for a time"
This is in no way roleplaying. Any roleplayer know the difference between ooc (out of character) and ic (in character). What happens on normal servers is not roleplayat all. Not even close. You do not play a character in its full truth. You just have an avatar, chat with other avatars, and have fun throu different games and activities.
Originally posted by franksalbe Yeah... It was in an ingame funeral Where an Alliance based guild which I believe is supposed to represent the good guys or something like that. Went on a killing spree. Dispicable is all I have to say. You cannot justify bad sportmanship in anyway. Attacking an unarmed combatant is the same and shooting someone in the back. It is both cowardly and dishonorable.
And going into a known PVP area as an unarmed combatant on a mission of peace is just plain stupidity. If you want to change the nature of the pvp areas, that all fine, but until its changed, dont cry about the current settings. I dont care what people are in PvP for... Everyone who goes in knows the rules for the area. Its a game with guns, and an area clearly marked "player versus player". Keep your morals and ethics to yourselves, they are not relevant or welcomed in PvP areas. The people who did this were simply keeping with the spirit of PvP zones, and their actions (while harsh) were also ok, due to the nature of the area. People can cry all they want about the way it went down, but you are in a video game with guns and a PvP area. Remember that.
Im sorry, but I cried, laughing so hard at this. Let me tell you why
First off, I'm not 12, or a jerk, Im respected by most people who know me, and Im old enough to be considered "mature" or as mature as you can get without loosing the ability to have fun. I ran a guild in WoW, the guild hit around 750 members, mostly 60s and we were very active, meeting wise, always coming up with fun places to have our meetings. Now, whenever we would have our meetings, I NEVER even considered the possibility of holding a guild wide meeting, even with that kind of firepower, in contested territory, never even crossed my mind. I can see it now, /1 Orgrimar General Chat: THERE ARE 100 ALLIANCE HAVING A MEETING IN <enter spot here>, LETS GET THEM.
I agree with the fact that it was dishonorable to do, but they are playing a GAME. In my personal opinion, the fault for that whole event falls squarely on the hands of the bonehead that said "lets hold this funeral in Winterspring"
Im hoping for the day of a true PVP game, where things like this will award a tactical advantage to the offending players group, because this was an act of coordinated genius. To those who are not PVPers, get off the server, this is war, and war is ugly. Kudos to Serenity, play the bad guys, we need you. Heroes arent heroes unless they have a villain to fight
I think that the original mourning/rememberance ceremony was just as much filled with respect and commemoration thoughts as the latter brutal slaughter was full of defiance and disrespect. Both sides of this are definitely emotionnaly-charged and intense in their own right and I personnaly think that its when these moments occur that MMORPGs come out at their best and most intense.
While I can understand how someone can see this as being disrespectful for the deceased girl, I choose to see it as a one-of-a-kind event that all parties involved will remember for a very, very long time, especially since the coverage , chatter and commotion it caused throughout MMO-planet.
And how can one be remembered better than with an unforgettable event ? If I was playing with a community of PvP players, and now had passed away, looking down from heavens, that's exactly how I'd like to be remembered, my memory honored by my online friends in the fashion my online life was lived.
That is, for all the other boring stuff, I'd let that to my RL peeps
I can honestly say right here and now, and I don't say this to be edgy but I say it for a good reason, that if I had have been playing that game, on that server, on that faction, and I heard about this 'event', I would have been right there beside them with my blades drawn.
The simple fact of the matter is that this is an MMO. It's supposed to be an immerssive world that is completely seperate from the real world. This is the main point of an MMO, contrary to what WoW fans may believe.
I can see why you would want to hold an online funeral, but there are plenty other places to do it. MSN. Yahoo. Second Life. The user's favourite chatsite, whatever it was. The simple fact of the matter is, they held it in an MMO, they held it in a PvP server, they held it on a battlefield.
If they want to support and mourn their friend, then they should be prepared to defend them, as well.
The real problem of PvP honour is in the regular PvP, not events like this; events like this are what make it good. It's all the crap you cop in your everyday PvP that's rubbish. The fact that someone can Ambush you at Level 10 when they're Level 60 when you're fighting two mobs at once and on 10% health. Or better yet, to again use WoW as an example, sap you so that your equipment takes damage. There's meant to be an honour system in place to prevent this - I don't care if that happens if I know the person is getting penalized for it. Not when they kill me like that and, say if I'm Lv60 also, but still on 10% health and fighting two mobs, they get HONOUR points for it.
A PvP server should be about duelling people you come across on the road. Not a battle to just see who can gank who. Although I'm not counting on that issue EVER being solved - people are dishonourable and will do anything to show off their virtual genetalia, happens in everything from MMOs to FPS'. How long's it been since you've seen someone use a gun in Halo because they like that gun, and not because it's strong? Or for that matter, a class because they like they idea? How many people in the PvP servers of EQ2 actually LIKED the Ranger class? How many people in WoW actually LIKE stealth classes?
The point is, Honour Systems are one of the most important things for a PvP server, because they can draw the line between a fun PvP experience, and just a grief war.
Get over the funeral though. You weren't attacking any mobs, you outnumbered them, and you even had a position advantage if I remember the video right. If anything you should just be ashamed that you lost and failed to defend your friend's honour.
Originally posted by Shinkada Get over the funeral though. You weren't attacking any mobs, you outnumbered them, and you even had a position advantage if I remember the video right. If anything you should just be ashamed that you lost and failed to defend your friend's honour.
I don't have much to say about the first part of your post: that's a very valid, well-thought out opinion on the matter.
However, what I don't get (and that's part of what I tried to express here on my previous post) is how was the honour of the deceased person was spoiled in any way by this event ? The way I see it, that's a great way of honouring her memory, as it was an event that will be remembered even more now that it went the way it went.
Do you sincerely think such an event would do anything to lessen the value of the deceased in her people's opinion ? Do you really believe that the deceased person thinks less of her friends after this ? I think not.
I completely agree with Mr Bonewell on this. It was uncalled for and, Imho, very childish. People can yell "But its pvp! its part of the game!" a players death is not part of the game, yet the only way for people to hold a remorial was through the game. They knew her from the game, and will say goodbye in the same way. Yet for some people, this was too much to ask and had to be complete assholes about it.
Comments
I think anyone who tries to hold a "real-life" event within the confines of a game universe is either asking for trouble to get attention, or utterly clueless beyond hope.
It's sad that someone died. It's sad that their friends' feelings got hurt when their ceremony got disrupted. It's pathetic that they picked one of the high-level contested zones on a PvP server to hold their ceremony, as if the whole rest of the player population was supposed to stop playing their game because someone they didn't know and had never heard of was trying to emote about somone else they didn't know and had never heard of.
Even on a Role Playing server, I would still expect some less reputable characters (note the use of the word, not players) to try something at such an event.
As for people acting like they do in real life.... some do, some don't. I hope you aren't one of those people who thinks actors all behave just like the characters they play on television? Some people role play very different personalities in games, for fun, for the challenge of staying in character, or just to let off steam doing things they know they can't ever do in life. That's the point. It's a game. When things in the game start having consequences in your real life, it's time to stop playing and go outside.
Oh yes, I believe part of the topic was about open PvP? WoW is not actually open PvP. WoW is a two-sided conflict with areas of contested space. In real open PvP, any player could attack any other player, regardless of allegence. WoW doesn't have the mechanics to allow double agents, backstabbing, and playing groups against one another. When I used to play regularly, there were many times I "worked with" Alliance players who happened to be out grinding or questing next to me, and many other times I would have loved to kill obnoxious fellow horde players who trained mobs on me, or ninja'd herbs while I was fighting.
I am amused by comments of people referring to "acting like they do in real life"
Yes...I act like a dwarven hunter in real life....
or better yet...
I act like a Tauren Shamen in real life.....
running around...killing things....using totems....skinning animals....
that's about as silly of a thought as my WOW characters using a computer to play a MMORPG....
I'm not really saying anything except that I'm amused by the thought!
I enjoy the suspension of disbelief when I watch a movie or get into the story of a game. Roleplaying is fun.
Roleplaying on a PVP server can't happen until there is some sense to the PVP like wars that have clear victors vs. being able to run right back into the fray 2 seconds after you die. No fun for me since it comes down to who has the better connection, tighter mod or more expensive computer more often than who knows what buttons to push. Give me a PVP server where I'm locked out of combat for an hour after I die and I'd give it a go.
Sadly most of the people that play PVP would buy "Bucket o' Blood" PVP games with no story just to see how many times they can up their kill count. Plus all the people who like to complain about how much it suxx0rs and otherwise feel like what they have to say means anything against profits. (Like I'm doing here.
While it's true that people use online games for socializing, PVP games are't built to cater to it. Yet? WoW isn't about social responsibility, it's about killing. Name one MMORPG that isn't.
It's a failing on the faceless gaming community to turn to a faceless medium to try to fill their emotional vaccuum, not the writers of a game. To find those who actually play the game the way the the way the game is designed only surprises those who blur the lines between gaming and social responsibility. To expect EVERYone who PAYS to play a PVP game to one day NOT PVP earns a big "Dur-de-durrr!" Award in my book.
While "it's just a game" and the beauty of the ambush should be applauded. Too many people personally identify with their little pixels and zero's and one's far more than is healthy.
Bottom line for me is if you don't like PVP every day you play, play a different game or shut up.
I play PVP until I can't enjoy the actual game because the PVP is non-stop and senseless for anything more than point counts and one upmanship. Since I gain no personal satisfaction from that in a game, I play games where PVP is optional or cooperative play is all their is.
Weddings in game? Funerals in game that aren't for your character you're deleting? Creepy to say the least, but for some (sadly) the only outlet they have.
Discuss the emotional stability of a million people who pay for the fantasy of a made up world taking the place of a real life ceremony or who intellilgently don't switch to a medium that is designed for such a thing at least.
Never browbeat people who play games the way they are written. That makes you as creepy as those who turn to a gaming community for social responsibility.
There. I feel important now. If this was a PVP server, about halfway through this someone would have killed me, it would have frustrated the hell out of me and I would have switched to a non-PVP forum and never looked back. I can see the video on South Park now.
Consider doing the same. See ya!
To be blunt... I agree. It's rather tiring to read people sanctimoniusly defending the attackers (while at the same time mocking the group who wanted to say good-bye to a friend). Sure it's a game, but from what I've read here, the non-gaming event was announced as such. It's obvious the event was intended as a sort of video conference with 3D "avatars." I imagine most of the people at the activity would not be able to attend the actual one in real life, since they probably live in different parts of the country or even the world. It tickles me silly to hear some callng the event "disturbing" while at the same time callously giving thumbs up to the A-orifices "assertiveness."
If it had been a "funeral" for an actual *fictive* character in the game (not a real person), hey, invite me to the ambush. It wasn't, though.
I would tend to agree that the decision to hold the event in a PvP area instead of a "safer" area was kind of shortsighted. The organizers must have been aware of "quality" of some of the people playing there, and that they were leaving themselves open to low-lifers that get off doing colorful stunts like that. Nevertheless, that does not detract from the puerile behavior (to say the least) of the "attackers," who (as far as I can tell from these posts) knew in advance the event would be an online get-together of people who could not do so in real life due to geographical barriers, and not a gaming (or even RPG) event.
Couldn't the "attackers," um, play with themeselves like for an hour while that other group held the service? Was that too much to ask? From the constant parroting of the belittling (and tiresome) mantra "it's only a game," it appears that the answer for some is "yes."
I just wanted to add my voice firmly to those shaking their heads at the obvious immatiurity of the "attackers." Didn't want to take a "neutral" or "compromising" stand. The middle of the road is the worse place to drive.
E.
It's just a game. If one wants to really wants to honor someone's memory, go to thier funeral. The character didn't die, the account is still somewhere. The girl died. A real friend would go to thier friend's funeral.PERIOD.Holding an in game funeral for an avatar is silly.Many people who knew this character only knew the character.They did not know the person behind the toon.It wasn't "Agmar The Mighty "'s funeral. it was John Smith.One more thing....It IS a PVP server.THATS IT!!! The people doing the ganking clearly didn't know John Smith, and weren't bothered by his passing.They saw an in game opportunity to get some kills for thier record.This is thier pass-time as well, and they use the time as they can and as they're allowed.
This being said, death is tragic. Dying young is VERY tragic.But these events being talked about were in a videogame.Bottomline, is VIDEOGAME. They didnt show up to the real life funeral and start kicking over coffins and such.Though sensative to some, it;s not that big a deal or that great a crime.In my opinion, if you make a huge deal of this event, you are WAY to sensitive and should stay away from online gaming. Just plug in your nintendo and some good old fashioned mario brothers.No drama there.
You are quite mistaken.
We are never challenged more in our ethical behavior than when we can "get away" with something. For example, look at the crime sprees you see in the wake of a natural disaster, with looting, rape, and murder. Why does that happen? Because people are suddenly in a position where they can get away with doing things they would otherwise be answerable for doing. You don't really know if you are an ethical person or not until you can choose right from wrong without any consequence other than the knowledge of what kind of person your behavior makes you.
If you go online and act like a jerk just because you can get away with it, don't think for a moment that doesn't reflect on your moral character or lack of it. You will not be punished - other than the knowledge that you are in fact an asshole.
I understand what you are saying, but I don't agree with your reasoning and comparison of the real world to a virtual world.
I'm not saying that arseholes don't flourish on the internet...because that is obvious. A great deal, if not ALL people will act and do things differently when given the prospect of anonymity, online of offline. However, trying to apply this notion to an environment where people are free to roleplay and "act" via a virtual avatar is short sighted. It's a very popular and easy viewpoint to say a person's in-game actions are a reflection of their true personality...personally I find Teamspeak to be a better indicator of character, and even that is inaccurate sometimes.
What I actually said before was not to compare virtual events to their real-life equivalent. People completely overreact when subjects like this are tackled...in reality, what happened? Some virtual characters got "killed" and needed to respawn. The sentiment behind their mourning didn't change, the fact that they cared about a friend that died didn't change. Those are the things that matter.
If the mourner's feelings were hurt because of the actions of a ganksquad on a rampage, to be honest they are missing the point. They aren't mourning the loss of "XxXGandalfXxX", they are mourning for a real, flesh and blood person. Expecting a vast majority of people to hold any sort of serious respect for a virtual funeral is unrealistic, even more so when the proceeding is to be held in a PVP zone.
At the end of the day, a lot of people play MMO's so they do not have to deal with real life crap, let alone anybody else's emotional baggage. As far as I am concerned, in a virtual world, as long as people are playing their subscription fees and aren't cheating they have the right to do whatever they please. Does that mean that sometimes people get upset? Yes, undoubtedly, but I'd personally rather have it that way than play online in an overly controlled and sterile environment.
The bottom line is, don't take virtual events too seriously. Not everybody will view the game in the same light as you do and they all have the right to their own playstyles. If you put an inappropriate level of emotional attachment into something which you have no inherent control over, you are performing the virtual equivalent riding a motorbike blindfolded and expecting to get home safely.
Does any of this have anything to do with Open PvP...No, not really, but still it's a lesson that a great deal of people it seems have yet to learn.
What p*sses me off the most is that 99% of the "hardcore" (ie. I'll gank your lvl 15 with my lvl 60 just because I can, red = dead n00b!) WoW PvP players are just little sh*ts that are too wimpy to even play true open PvP, or participate in any kind of system where being a jerk might actually have some repercussions.
Take the Magic: The Gathering 'What Color Are You?' Quiz.
well, obviously the people who planned the funeral were a bunch of noobs for not hireing a guild to guard them at said funeral. that being said, they deserved to get ganked for having such an open procession. long live the memory of the person whom actually died in RL but comeon people, this is a game, and gamers gamed and players got played, thats all there is to it, it happens every single day!
There is a reason it was being held online. It's just a video game, but it's real people playing it.
This is a game, and MUST be treated like one at all cost. So as not to blurr out the fine line between RL ( real life) and IG ( in game)
It puzzles me that the ones holding the funeral did not arrange it to be held in a safe location. Even thou it's an extremely emotional issue for them, they should still anticipate things like this.
quote:"It is reasonable to argue that individuals in a guild are role playing to the fullest extent by acting on valuable intel regarding the location of a vulnerable target. It is, however, just as reasonable to expect a peaceful gathering of mourners to remain undisturbed for a time"
This is in no way roleplaying. Any roleplayer know the difference between ooc (out of character) and ic (in character). What happens on normal servers is not roleplay at all. Not even close. You do not play a character in its full truth. You just have an avatar, chat with other avatars, and have fun throu different games and activities.
Im sorry, but I cried, laughing so hard at this. Let me tell you why
First off, I'm not 12, or a jerk, Im respected by most people who know me, and Im old enough to be considered "mature" or as mature as you can get without loosing the ability to have fun. I ran a guild in WoW, the guild hit around 750 members, mostly 60s and we were very active, meeting wise, always coming up with fun places to have our meetings. Now, whenever we would have our meetings, I NEVER even considered the possibility of holding a guild wide meeting, even with that kind of firepower, in contested territory, never even crossed my mind. I can see it now, /1 Orgrimar General Chat: THERE ARE 100 ALLIANCE HAVING A MEETING IN <enter spot here>, LETS GET THEM.
I agree with the fact that it was dishonorable to do, but they are playing a GAME. In my personal opinion, the fault for that whole event falls squarely on the hands of the bonehead that said "lets hold this funeral in Winterspring"
Im hoping for the day of a true PVP game, where things like this will award a tactical advantage to the offending players group, because this was an act of coordinated genius. To those who are not PVPers, get off the server, this is war, and war is ugly. Kudos to Serenity, play the bad guys, we need you. Heroes arent heroes unless they have a villain to fight
While I can understand how someone can see this as being disrespectful for the deceased girl, I choose to see it as a one-of-a-kind event that all parties involved will remember for a very, very long time, especially since the coverage , chatter and commotion it caused throughout MMO-planet.
And how can one be remembered better than with an unforgettable event ? If I was playing with a community of PvP players, and now had passed away, looking down from heavens, that's exactly how I'd like to be remembered, my memory honored by my online friends in the fashion my online life was lived.
That is, for all the other boring stuff, I'd let that to my RL peeps
I can honestly say right here and now, and I don't say this to be edgy but I say it for a good reason, that if I had have been playing that game, on that server, on that faction, and I heard about this 'event', I would have been right there beside them with my blades drawn.
The simple fact of the matter is that this is an MMO. It's supposed to be an immerssive world that is completely seperate from the real world. This is the main point of an MMO, contrary to what WoW fans may believe.
I can see why you would want to hold an online funeral, but there are plenty other places to do it. MSN. Yahoo. Second Life. The user's favourite chatsite, whatever it was. The simple fact of the matter is, they held it in an MMO, they held it in a PvP server, they held it on a battlefield.
If they want to support and mourn their friend, then they should be prepared to defend them, as well.
The real problem of PvP honour is in the regular PvP, not events like this; events like this are what make it good. It's all the crap you cop in your everyday PvP that's rubbish. The fact that someone can Ambush you at Level 10 when they're Level 60 when you're fighting two mobs at once and on 10% health. Or better yet, to again use WoW as an example, sap you so that your equipment takes damage. There's meant to be an honour system in place to prevent this - I don't care if that happens if I know the person is getting penalized for it. Not when they kill me like that and, say if I'm Lv60 also, but still on 10% health and fighting two mobs, they get HONOUR points for it.
A PvP server should be about duelling people you come across on the road. Not a battle to just see who can gank who. Although I'm not counting on that issue EVER being solved - people are dishonourable and will do anything to show off their virtual genetalia, happens in everything from MMOs to FPS'. How long's it been since you've seen someone use a gun in Halo because they like that gun, and not because it's strong? Or for that matter, a class because they like they idea? How many people in the PvP servers of EQ2 actually LIKED the Ranger class? How many people in WoW actually LIKE stealth classes?
The point is, Honour Systems are one of the most important things for a PvP server, because they can draw the line between a fun PvP experience, and just a grief war.
Get over the funeral though. You weren't attacking any mobs, you outnumbered them, and you even had a position advantage if I remember the video right. If anything you should just be ashamed that you lost and failed to defend your friend's honour.
However, what I don't get (and that's part of what I tried to express here on my previous post) is how was the honour of the deceased person was spoiled in any way by this event ? The way I see it, that's a great way of honouring her memory, as it was an event that will be remembered even more now that it went the way it went.
Do you sincerely think such an event would do anything to lessen the value of the deceased in her people's opinion ? Do you really believe that the deceased person thinks less of her friends after this ? I think not.