Lineage 2 is Failing Miserably

MegaShemp · November 2006

For the last year or so, this game has been overrun by 3rd party program users for the purpose of acquiring game coin to sell for real money online. These bots ( as far as the legitimate players can tell) are permitted to continue their operations by the NCSoft Support Staff, as they do absolutely nothing to diminish their (bot) population. Many legitimate players use the pvp ability in this game to attack and eliminate bots on a regular basis, but, if a Bot-Master should report an attacker as an illigitimate player, NCSoft will ban the legitimate player without any due process whatsoever.

For the last 2-3 months, the Community Server, an in game E-mail and communications system, has been offline and unavailable. There are heavy Castle Politics in this game in which this system is terribly important, NCSoft has yet to make any statement as to why it is unavailable or when it will return.

The Hero System, the highest reward you can attain in this game no longer functions. They (again) have made no declaration as to its dysfunction or availability.

I have played this game for 3+ years and have watched it deteriorate at an excruciating pace for some time. Currently I am aware of 3 legitimate players who have payed their monthly fees for as long as I have get banned for unknown and undisclosed reasons. Proving that NCSoft truly does not care about its community or the people who supply their payroll. This game had the best pvp system on the market, and for the most part still does, but since NCSoft has taken a 'no action' stance on the cheaters and exploiters, and a derogatory stance on the legit players, the attrition rate is extremely high. For those who take advantage of the free offer you will see that all server status are 'Light', meaning there aren't many players online. Six months ago, all servers were 'Heavy' and laden with activity.

Long story short, NCSoft has chosen its 'bot' population over its legitimate player population.

Edit: I would also like to point out that attaining full drops from Boss Monsters has been severely reduced during the last rev. This game has a crafting economy, meaning to create armor for your growing character it is extremely time consuming and expensive to equip yourself for each Armor/Weapon Grade that you level into. This is why many people (referred to as E-bayers) have purchased illicit game money with real cash. Perhaps this is what NCSoft is forcing many to do... perhaps this is why the bots are permitted to run despite the outcry from the game populace. Perhaps NCSoft just wants this game to go away... who knows?

Gameloading · November 2006

How many times more will people kick this dead horse? we KNOW there are bots, we KNOW NCsoft is hardly doing anything about it. its been like that for over 2 years now, give it a rest already.

MegaShemp · November 2006

Well, Gameloading

This topic was started just as much for MMORPG Admin as much as it was started for gamers. Its simple, this is called 'proactivity'. If the company that promotes a product realizes that product is tainted or compromised, they have more leverage to react to that product. A game producers main goal is to make money on a product, that goes without saying. Should that income be reduced for any reason (including its reputation) the more likely something will be done about it.

And by the way.... you kick a dead horse until it disintegrates and you can't smell it anymore. If you are just a forum whore.. please refrain from replying to serious subjects.

Thank You

ginfress01 · November 2006

Originally posted by Gameloading
How many times more will people kick this dead horse? we KNOW there are bots, we KNOW NCsoft is hardly doing anything about it. its been like that for over 2 years now, give it a rest already.

I must say the last weeks NCsoft is banning bots. On devianne it makes a difference. Yes they are still around but not in the amount they had a few months ago.

FastTx · November 2006

For some reason NCSoft appears to be banning bots more than ever now. Just need to surf the sites where l2 botters hang out to see it happening, half their posts talk about being banned.

Sentime · November 2006

ahhhhhhh NC, they finallly kicking rats out of the sinking ship! Will it be enough to save it? hmmmm

For anyone wanting to try L2, I recommend you play the free trail, maybe pay them 1 month if you're feeling charitable and then run run far far away. It won't get better.

Gameloading · November 2006

Originally posted by MegaShemp

Well, Gameloading
This topic was started just as much for MMORPG Admin as much as it was started for gamers. Its simple, this is called 'proactivity'. If the company that promotes a product realizes that product is tainted or compromised, they have more leverage to react to that product. A game producers main goal is to make money on a product, that goes without saying. Should that income be reduced for any reason (including its reputation) the more likely something will be done about it.
And by the way.... you kick a dead horse until it disintegrates and you can't smell it anymore. If you are just a forum whore.. please refrain from replying to serious subjects.
Thank You

oh, your are going to have an attitude problem, aren't you?

tell you what. this topic has already been created over and over again. go post in those threads instead of creating a new one.

Sovrath · November 2006

Oh, I highly doubt that L2 is a sinking ship. There are very dedicated players who will be part of that game for quite some time.

I do however think that they are going to have to be a bit more "aware" of what else is coming down the pipeline as well as really understand who their market is.

As far as bots and cheaters, NC has done a huge banning which has lasted for quite some time at this point. Of course a good thing.

But there are some issues which can't be ingnored. Why is the hero system not fixed and with very little said about it. The same can be said about the community server (which allows people to send mail/save mail from other players).

This is a huge problem.

I could be wrong but for some reason I've always felt that NC had an arrogance about them. They aren't very good at communication and they give off the feeling that they could care less about what the North American/European market is interested in or wants. Not to say this is true but it certainly comes across this way.

SantaClaws48 · November 2006

That's not true. For the next chronicle the Koreans voted to add a new race. US players voted to add more large and small scale pvp and we won out over the Koreans.

Sovrath · November 2006

Originally posted by SantaClaws48
That's not true. For the next chronicle the Koreans voted to add a new race. US players voted to add more large and small scale pvp and we won out over the Koreans.

Oh, I know.

But if you look at the forums there are always complaints about how NC is not paying attention to the NA playerbase. There is still feeling that NC only listens to Korea. I'm not talking about "fact" so much as perception.

I tend to think part of this is that prior to that C5 poll, the developers used to just ask the Korean playerbase, including having a round table discussion with several of the largest alliances (leaders) in the Korean game as to how certain things could be implemented (the 3rd class change came out of this).

edit: though I never saw the final tally of that korean poll that included the races/new areas for pvp. Maybe it was close and the NA player base helped tip the balance.

alyndale · November 2006

I decided to reply to this particular note. But, actually am responding to several in this forum. I, like many was a long-time Lineage 2 player. Yes, the game has deteriorated to the point it is nothing more than a soap opera of he said she said rumors and innuindos. No roleplaying, or very, very little is left in any of the servers. Friendly people, yes there are a few, but, if you have ventrilo or teamspeak, listen to the tired strain of player's voices. The grind has taken it's toll.

Customer support has been almost non-existent for almost 2 years now. Few players are on any of the servers. My guess, but I would imagine that the North American servers are down at least 20% from this time last year. NCSoft doesn't care too much for us or they would have listened to us long, long ago when we mentioned the L2 Walker problem. Yep, they have banned many a botter. They did this about 12 months ago as well and another 6 months before that. So, they've banned another few 100 botters. Hmmmm, I wonder how quickly they'll be back and leveled up again?

Money and lots of it people. Do the math. NCSoft isn't Blizzard in North America. What I mean is they don't generate the type of subscription monies that Blizzard does in this country. Ok, well where is the money coming from? Mostly the Asian market with support from some hard-core Euros. Now, why do you suppose these botters or shall I say adena farmers are allowed to permiate what used to be such a beautiful game? You be the judge. "There's money in them thar websites!" Money talks folks..and you know what walks... NCSoft has a few other MMO's that have taken the gaming market by storm. It is my humble opinion that they speand most of their marketing money on these games rather than L2. This means the N. American servers are aging with little or no new growth per month. Not very good for any MMO to run stale.

Crafting is somewhat of a joke in L2. Not much of it really. Only one race is allowed to craft. Can we say runaway economy? Again, there's adena in them thar websites! Before I logged out for the final time, I saw someone attemting to sell an S grade weapon, no enchants for well over 2 billion adena. Yeah, right, I'll just get a loan from, uhmmm, ahem the clan warehouse, yeah, the clan warehouse.

I rant and rave. Yes, and on my soapbox here, but I was an ardent fan of this game and remained loyal as long as I could. It just wasn't fun always having to chase down other alliances because they ganked some lowbees in a necro. Or going to a seige and waiting for nearly the entire 2 hours for something to happen only to have the strongest alliance on my server come out for open PvP on both sides. PvP because it is part of the game, uhhuh, yep heard that one before. PvP because you're bored is more like it folks. The slow, slow pace of grinding takes it's toll eventually. PvP is all that is left of a once noble game.

Fairwell old friend...knew you well...but now it's time to say good-bye.

On to Vanguard!

Sovrath · November 2006

Originally posted by alyndale

On to Vanguard!

Hmm, well, good luck on that since it isn't out yet and no one really knows what it is goind to be like. Sort of like Dark and Light. People said it was goign to be great and now look at it.

Sorry you didn't like L2. But it is a brutal pvp game. Not for everyone. People just don't seem to get it. They think that there is going to be fairness to it al but that is not the game. The game is supposed to be about conflict.

And I think it is true in that there is very little content. But that is because the content is the player interaction.

and it is true that there is very little role play. I don't really see role players staying with this type of game.

But good luck. I hope Vanguard is everything you want it to be.

FastTx · November 2006

Originally posted by alyndale
I decided to reply to this particular note. But, actually am responding to several in this forum. I, like many was a long-time Lineage 2 player. Yes, the game has deteriorated to the point it is nothing more than a soap opera of he said she said rumors and innuindos. No roleplaying, or very, very little is left in any of the servers. Friendly people, yes there are a few, but, if you have ventrilo or teamspeak, listen to the tired strain of player's voices. The grind has taken it's toll.

I completely agree with you on the point about "soap opera" for there is drama and server politics. The game has excellent ground if you like this sort of thing. The player CAN and WILL change the game. 90% of the PvP has a reason behind it, or at least had, coming to my next point. I have TS and Ventrillo and if anything my clanmates are having more fun than ever, theres ALWAYS PvP, someone to kill and something to do. Now that a large part of the player base is reaching their max level, they are spending more time doing other things than exping. PVP has become slightly less meaningful as wars lower exp loss down to 1%, and going to a clan hall lowers that down even to a 0.5% loss and a high level Bishop down to a 0.1% loss and if your willing to spend the costs, a Blessed Ressurection scroll down to a 0% exp loss. This makes PvP more encouraging while making it less based on server politics, but it also does generate server politics at the same time.

Customer support has been almost non-existent for almost 2 years now. Few players are on any of the servers. My guess, but I would imagine that the North American servers are down at least 20% from this time last year. NCSoft doesn't care too much for us or they would have listened to us long, long ago when we mentioned the L2 Walker problem. Yep, they have banned many a botter. They did this about 12 months ago as well and another 6 months before that. So, they've banned another few 100 botters. Hmmmm, I wonder how quickly they'll be back and leveled up again?

What have you had a problem with, with the customer service? I've been able to contact Customer Support to get a measily 1% exp back because a mob killed me while I was blackscreened. However the next chronicle the port spot was changed to a safer location. I believe you hear the small amount of cases where someone has a bad experience. Yes there are some, but what MMORPG company doesn't have bad Customer Service. It's not cheap by the way. You are paying 15 bucks a month for the game. Probably $2 of that goes towards Customer Support. These guys get paid probably $15 an hour, so really you deserve the time of about 10 minutes of attention from a CS representative a month unless everyone is willing to pay 25-30 bucks a month there won't ever be good CS. They've banned botters, but whats to say that they aren't actually dealing with the problem. They are banning, and it takes a long time for those level 7x botters to level up again. By that time there will be another banning. It seems less and less botters are farming adena these days. However do expect RB farmers to pop up again with armies of Orc Destroyers replacing their SH's.

Money and lots of it people. Do the math. NCSoft isn't Blizzard in North America. What I mean is they don't generate the type of subscription monies that Blizzard does in this country. Ok, well where is the money coming from? Mostly the Asian market with support from some hard-core Euros. Now, why do you suppose these botters or shall I say adena farmers are allowed to permiate what used to be such a beautiful game? You be the judge. "There's money in them thar websites!" Money talks folks..and you know what walks... NCSoft has a few other MMO's that have taken the gaming market by storm. It is my humble opinion that they speand most of their marketing money on these games rather than L2. This means the N. American servers are aging with little or no new growth per month. Not very good for any MMO to run stale.

Yeah it's true theres been little to no marketing done to L2. It's had great success in North America where anything not marketed gets ignored. But it's hardly a thing to say now, as it is practically plastered over the frontpage of mmorpg.com and on fileplanet.

Crafting is somewhat of a joke in L2. Not much of it really. Only one race is allowed to craft. Can we say runaway economy? Again, there's adena in them thar websites! Before I logged out for the final time, I saw someone attemting to sell an S grade weapon, no enchants for well over 2 billion adena. Yeah, right, I'll just get a loan from, uhmmm, ahem the clan warehouse, yeah, the clan warehouse.

Whats different about the crafting system in L2 other than other games? I admit I find the 60% recipes are kind of dumb. Attempting is the key word there. It won't sell unless someone is stupid. If they ebay and buy it, more power to you. Go out there, find the mats, craft it yourself and sell it to the same type of idiot and laugh while you take advantage of them. Theres 2 kinds of financial success in the game, spending RL money for IG items or playing the market. I find L2's economy one of the most stable for such a long running game.

I rant and rave. Yes, and on my soapbox here, but I was an ardent fan of this game and remained loyal as long as I could. It just wasn't fun always having to chase down other alliances because they ganked some lowbees in a necro. Or going to a seige and waiting for nearly the entire 2 hours for something to happen only to have the strongest alliance on my server come out for open PvP on both sides. PvP because it is part of the game, uhhuh, yep heard that one before. PvP because you're bored is more like it folks. The slow, slow pace of grinding takes it's toll eventually. PvP is all that is left of a once noble game.

It wasn't fun PvPing? Maybe you should gain some allies and war that "strongest" alliance. They earned being the strongest, why should they care what you do unless you do something about it?

Fairwell old friend...knew you well...but now it's time to say good-bye.

On to Vanguard!

Good luck with Vanguard. Just don't expect it to be polished off the bat.

LaLaOrange · November 2006

You know this game is dying when the company doesn't even bother to update their website with the new expansion content. Trying to find the new c5 weapons or items is not a pleasant experience sifting korean forums. How hard is it to drag one of those online dudes they have on payroll to update a website? Doesn't this game have monthly subscriptions? pathetic. It's not like they make pencils they are an online world peddler.

Oh yeah and the events are just recycled trash. boring.

Praor · November 2006

Originally posted by MegaShemp

For the last year or so, this game has been overrun by 3rd party program users for the purpose of acquiring game coin to sell for real money online. These bots ( as far as the legitimate players can tell) are permitted to continue their operations by the NCSoft Support Staff, as they do absolutely nothing to diminish their (bot) population. Many legitimate players use the pvp ability in this game to attack and eliminate bots on a regular basis, but, if a Bot-Master should report an attacker as an illigitimate player, NCSoft will ban the legitimate player without any due process whatsoever.
For the last 2-3 months, the Community Server, an in game E-mail and communications system, has been offline and unavailable. There are heavy Castle Politics in this game in which this system is terribly important, NCSoft has yet to make any statement as to why it is unavailable or when it will return.
The Hero System, the highest reward you can attain in this game no longer functions. They (again) have made no declaration as to its dysfunction or availability.
I have played this game for 3+ years and have watched it deteriorate at an excruciating pace for some time. Currently I am aware of 3 legitimate players who have payed their monthly fees for as long as I have get banned for unknown and undisclosed reasons. Proving that NCSoft truly does not care about its community or the people who supply their payroll. This game had the best pvp system on the market, and for the most part still does, but since NCSoft has taken a 'no action' stance on the cheaters and exploiters, and a derogatory stance on the legit players, the attrition rate is extremely high. For those who take advantage of the free offer you will see that all server status are 'Light', meaning there aren't many players online. Six months ago, all servers were 'Heavy' and laden with activity.
Long story short, NCSoft has chosen its 'bot' population over its legitimate player population.
Edit: I would also like to point out that attaining full drops from Boss Monsters has been severely reduced during the last rev. This game has a crafting economy, meaning to create armor for your growing character it is extremely time consuming and expensive to equip yourself for each Armor/Weapon Grade that you level into. This is why many people (referred to as E-bayers) have purchased illicit game money with real cash. Perhaps this is what NCSoft is forcing many to do... perhaps this is why the bots are permitted to run despite the outcry from the game populace. Perhaps NCSoft just wants this game to go away... who knows?

You have stated that you played Lineage 2 for 3 plus years........please entertain me.

Jukan · November 2006

Game isn't dead! Don't be angry that you are missing the new online sensation known as Lineage II. 100k active subs in NA and EU...pretty good split over 10 servers...

If the game was dead, they wouldn't have just released a new server. How many MMOs do you know that after being out for 3 years suddenly in the third year release a new server because game populations are high? That doesn't sound like dying, comon people use ur head.

Sentime · November 2006

Originally posted by Jukan
Game isn't dead! Don't be angry that you are missing the new online sensation known as Lineage II. 100k active subs in NA and EU...pretty good split over 10 servers...

If the game was dead, they wouldn't have just released a new server. How many MMOs do you know that after being out for 3 years suddenly in the third year release a new server because game populations are high? That doesn't sound like dying, comon people use ur head.

If you want to consider people running 5-9 accounts (bots) to level 1 toon an improvment to the game, then great.

Also love the fanbois with their witty "don't be angry" comments. Recently when they did a mass ban, pretty much all the servers went from "Heavy" to "Light" status in prime time. Do you think they would have added a 10th server if all the others were so unpopulated?

I don't quite understand why their latest bans were more brutal on the bots. Perhaps they figured out people are so absorbed in the game and the RMT business is so damn good, they will all probably open up all new accounts and NCsoft can add to their 14 million customer total.

Online Sensation?

If you love china gold farmers, play L2.
If you love botting and botters, play L2.
If you love killing the same stupid AI mobs 50,000 mobs to level, play L2.
If you love one of the most tedious craft systems ever, play L2.
If you love crappy sieges, packed with bugs and client crashes, play L2.
If you love horrible PvP with some classes as gods, others worthless, play L2.

Go online sensation.

100k, that's like what? 2% of WoW?

Jukan · November 2006

Status were light, but I didn't notice less ppl cause those who were banned I have never seen or cared to see before.

I like the game, but you don't have too...

If you love china gold farmers, play MMOs!
If you love botting and botters, play MMOs.
If you love killing the same stupid AI mobs 50,000 mobs to level, play MMOs.
If you love one of the most tedious craft systems ever, play MMOs.
If you love crappy sieges, packed with bugs and client crashes, play MMOs.
If you love fun PvP with some classes as gods, others thought worthless, play L2.. (I will give you that)

If you love saturday morning cartoons, play WoW!

rickallen · November 2006

that;s the way ncsoft to earn money

jesusjasd · November 2006

Originally posted by Jukan
Status were light, but I didn't notice less ppl cause those who were banned I have never seen or cared to see before.

If you love saturday morning cartoons, play WoW!

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hahahahahaahhhahahah OWNEDDDDDD xDDDDD I HATE WOW wow diserve die

xD this was very freak answer k xD

Torak · November 2006

Huh?

Where did this topic come from? Just last week they posted this here...

http://www.mmorpg.com/newsroom.cfm

EDIT--Hmmm... that link just brings you to the current news today, search L2...in the meantime you can read the same thing on the offical site.

http://www.lineage2.com/news/news.html

News about L2's record growth and closing down of one of the biggest private servers....??? You might not want to believe it but thats up to you.

OP, please check your facts before you post stuff like this... NCSoft does do a terrible job at communicating with the community. There is no excuse for the community server being down for as long as it was without some sort of statement as to why. If there was, I guess I missed it.

There is an interesting statement by PCGamer in regards to the bots in L2 that I think sums it up nicely. Go pick up the new issue. NCSoft has a new surprise for bot users coming soon from what I've heard.

loopylizard · December 2006

I disagree with the pvp system i thought it sucked out the wazoo they need to put up pve servers like in wow but I totaly agree with you mega on every thing else you are telling it like it is and more power to you go man go

Gameloading · December 2006

Originally posted by loopylizard
I disagree with the pvp system i thought it sucked out the wazoo they need to put up pve servers like in wow but I totaly agree with you mega on every thing else you are telling it like it is and more power to you go man go

Thats like playing Counter strike without guns...

Jukan · December 2006

I would say that L2 is a pvpers game. Almost the only reason to get exp is to pvp. But this dosen't mean that there isn't any PvE or the game only consists of PvP because that is completely rare. To tell you the truth, L2 is set up that you only end up PvPing (A LOT) if you join a big PvP clan...

L2 is a PvE game, with PvP that can happen at any time and what most people strive for and the reason for PvPing.

I wouldn't say that L2 on a PvE server would be like counterstrike without guns, but everyone would give up at lvl 40 or so because the grind is HARSH and without a reason to level up such as PvP competitions, seiges, wars, there really is no point to level except to take on epic raid bosses. It isn't like L2 has a great story line, or a grind that doesn't feel like a grind. The grind is shoved in your face and there is no way you can miss it.

So like I said L2 is a game of hourless PvE, but it is definately a game for PvPers. I know it is weird logic, but pretty much if you don't like PvP you shouldn't play L2, or at least you shouldn't play any "PvP classes" and would be better becoming a Tank, healer, buffer type class, support type, class... Or something that would be fun to PvE a lot with. Or Even better become a DWARF and make MILLIONS...lol.

Torak · December 2006

Originally posted by Jukan
I would say that L2 is a pvpers game. Almost the only reason to get exp is to pvp. But this dosen't mean that there isn't any PvE or the game only consists of PvP because that is completely rare. To tell you the truth, L2 is set up that you only end up PvPing (A LOT) if you join a big PvP clan...

L2 is a PvE game, with PvP that can happen at any time and what most people strive for and the reason for PvPing.

I wouldn't say that L2 on a PvE server would be like counterstrike without guns, but everyone would give up at lvl 40 or so because the grind is HARSH and without a reason to level up such as PvP competitions, seiges, wars, there really is no point to level except to take on epic raid bosses. It isn't like L2 has a great story line, or a grind that doesn't feel like a grind. The grind is shoved in your face and there is no way you can miss it.

So like I said L2 is a game of hourless PvE, but it is definately a game for PvPers. I know it is weird logic, but pretty much if you don't like PvP you shouldn't play L2, or at least you shouldn't play any "PvP classes" and would be better becoming a Tank, healer, buffer type class, support type, class... Or something that would be fun to PvE a lot with. Or Even better become a DWARF and make MILLIONS...lol.

Tank not a PvP class? Are ya outta your mind? Tanks are the difference between winning and loosing a fight with the stuns. A lower level group can easily take out higher level attackers with "tank" support. Tanks also have a much higher P. def then any equal level class putting them almost of the same p. def as a character 10 levels higher when fully buffed. (at least a DA)

Anyway, the nice thing about L2's PvP unlike most MMO's is that the entire game mechanic is designed around PvP from the ground up unlike most games which tack it on at some point after release. Logicallly the PvE is build around the PvP mechanic.

Many people argue about balance, and you will always have people no matter what, people will complain about that, but overall class fit the roles pretty well.

I've done PvP in alot of other games and it does feel like an "ad hoc" addition in most of them. EQII being most notable, even WoW tacked it on at the end and it turned out pretty ...... generic.

SantaClaws48 · December 2006

Tanks are pretty decent pvp classes now since they can crowd control. Like torak said they can stun, which will take out at least one person for 7 seconds. High level DA's and paladins have a second stun which silences phyiscal skills (pretty rape). Paladins can also be nearly industructable if high level and setup correctly. Finally, all tanks can now pull aggro on attackers in pvp, giving softer classes time to do their thing.

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Lineage 2 is Failing Miserably

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Lineage 2 is Failing Miserably

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