DRG Poll

Kaizer407 · November 2006

So i just want some opinions and feedbacks...i just was thinking of maybe some coll ideas to encourage more DRG in game ~_~ all opinions matter ^_^

Telaki · November 2006

It isn't so much that people don't like DRG, But their spot in a party falls dead last. And noone wants to go weeks without a party. Its partly to blame on the formula SE uses on 2 handed weapon damage, A VERY large and almost unreasonable ammount of STR is needed to do an Average High damage, Otherwise your hits will variy greatly. And that Polearm weaponskills are quite lacking in power and in available skillchains.

Fishymuffin · November 2006

I disagree with you on almost your entire statement. Dragoon's don't fall last in line for pt's. Quite a few times have I just been walking around jeuno doing nothing and I'll get an invite out of nowhere. Sometimes multiple times in one day. Also, Dragoon's can deal very good damage if they have proper gear equipped. The Drachen gear for example, the wyvern gets a HUGE boost on attacks and such after you get the helm. And in party's, if you have a SAM and a DRG they can do massive damage with Distortion. (Double Thrust >>> Tachi: Enpi). The only thing I do agree with is that, yes, it is hard to find someone to SC with a DRG.

Telaki · November 2006

I can't even argue a point agasint that. So heres a bunch of random statments, and you can place them togeather if you wish.

I've been blind invited to parties as Beastmaster becuase they needed another DD.

Any job can deal good damage giving a specific circumstance, The 2H Damage formula is a fact, It also leads why Drk with Scythe and GS is down at the bottom of the barrel like Drg. Its the same way for Great Axe. Sure they hit heavy, But they have such a wide damage variety.

Like I've been leveling Warrior with Great Axe in my static, I do around 60-100 Per Normal Swing, Minimum 60 max 100, By stacking STR I can raise the Minimum up where I do a higher Average Damage. Its not so bad early on, but when you start getting up there in levels, Your Damage Range is Huge, and you need a massive ammount of STR, Too much STR IMO because you sacrifice STR for other item slots. As any melee Vetren will tell you, You should never gain TP in STR Gear, Only use it for WS. But with 2H weapons you almost needed to otherwise your DoT sucks.

So jobs like DRG & DRK get shafted because they don't have a choice, Untill you hit endgame with DRK sub nin and dual wield Axes >.>

Drachen Aka AF has some good pieces, Like the helm, But they shoudln't be worn full time, Just swapped in to perform specific tasks like Jump, or Wyven Breath after a WS.

Pre 60-65 most parties consist of a Magic Burster & a SC, For the Love of God Sam should not be doing Tachi: Enpi past 50. Thanks to ToAU Magic Bursting has partly been eliminated because mobs die to damn fast.

DRG really get Gipped on equipment, They havn't got anything thats new thats good in awhile.

I'm not here to bash your Dragoon Pride, but both of our arguments fit in this thread. Anyone who passes by reading, should know the good AND the bad of every job.

Fishymuffin · November 2006

I see your point in many of those arguments, and yes, many of them are correct. But unfortunately, most of them are IF statements that I can't argue with. The one thing I do disagree with is that DRG get gipped on gear. Any DRG can go out and farm for 3 weeks and get good gear. For example, today for my DRG I bought a Valkyrie's Mask and a Swordbelt+1, these would take out the needed STR and sub in attack also giving the job a better DEF. But not all people have that kind of gil to throw around. The DRG also has the choice to say NO to polearm and take a different route, such as sword. This would have it's ups and downs, but the downs could be made up for with good food. (Sole+1). Anyways. I see your point, thank you for posting.

Kaizer407 · November 2006

Thanks for the great points, im a DRG myself.. 24DRG/12WAR at the moment, waiting till 40 to switch my sub to SAM. There are somedays i do find myself wandering around Jeuno and then i get random invites, but as im told 50+ is when the Leveling really stops for DRG. But great points from both sides.. and thank you for voting ^.^Y

Afify · November 2006

sorry but drg's are a waste at the end I perfer mybe a pt set up like whm rdm war sam mnk and a drk.
I just see drg not so good as a class. But it's all good do drg if ya like but percently I see it as a waste ^^

Telaki · November 2006

Whoa Whoa whoa Kaizer, /sam Pre 50 is bad ><, Hasso is 25. So at 40 you're giving up Berserk for +1.5% TP per swing, Zanshin & Third eye.

Kaizer407 · November 2006

Originally posted by Telaki
Whoa Whoa whoa Kaizer, /sam Pre 50 is bad ><, Hasso is 25. So at 40 you're giving up Berserk for +1.5% TP per swing, Zanshin & Third eye.

I said 40? >.> I thought i posted 50 XD

Fishymuffin · November 2006

I'm sorry if this is rude... but Afify, you can eat me. Before Penta Thrust got nerfed, DRG woulda gotten an invite before any monk, any hour of the day, any day of the week. And we are not a waste, we deal more damage well equiped than a mnk, but many people just don't realize it. soo.... kiss my Wyverns tail.

Telaki · November 2006

Originally posted by Fishymuffin
I'm sorry if this is rude... but Afify, you can eat me. Before Penta Thrust got nerfed, DRG woulda gotten an invite before any monk, any hour of the day, any day of the week. And we are not a waste, we deal more damage well equiped than a mnk, but many people just don't realize it. soo.... kiss my Wyverns tail.

You don't deal more damage than a well equiped monk, Nothing (No melee at least) Deals more damage than a well equiped monk. That includes using the right subjob. Most Monks must sub ninja or they'll become an MP sponge. If they didn't have to sub Nin, even the Axe/Sword Man/Ridill Wars are out parser'd. But I doubt Afify is even close to being that good yet.

But alas, You don't need to replie to those kind of posts, Don't feed the trolls. :P

Edit: I missed somthing, You mentioned Pre Penta Nerf, But I'm sorry You must not have played during that time because you're not very well informed.

The Penta Nerf as you mentioned, Was really /sam Nerf, it cut the Store TP returned from subjob. Along with Pentra Thrust, Asuran Fist was abused, Using the Relic Knuckles (The Normal ones droped from Dynamis, Not the upgraded) a Monk/sam could Spam Asuran Fist (8 Hit weaponskill like the 6 hit penta) accumulating 100% TP after every turn.

So pre "Penta Nerf" Your argument still doesn't stand.

Fishymuffin · November 2006

w/e bro. I hope you happy with yourself. you just got me to retire my drg.

Telaki · November 2006

Happy? I don't really care. When I first started, Long, Long ago. I found it interesting to learn about every job, So by now i'm like a FFXI encyclopedia.

If you quit DRG over silly little stuff like this, Then what made you start in the first place?

Afify · November 2006

Like i said Drg waste In party exp in ffxi general glad ya quit your drg go do a class a party needs thank you

Telaki · November 2006

Originally posted by Afify
Like i said Drg waste In party exp in ffxi general glad ya quit your drg go do a class a party needs thank you

You don't have that much room to talk, Outside of EXP parties Mnk isn't that special, So you can Chi Blast for 1000 Damage on Gods, woohooo to you. Go level a job that takes more than 2 Different macro's: /attack on & /ws "Asuran Fist" <t>

Kaizer407 · November 2006

i dont think any job is a waste...every job has their good and bad points, dont go putting people down about their jobs..that isnt very mature. A drg is still a DD ... maybe not as much as other but still helps out. Person with the right gear and knows how to play DRG will definitly get invites, not as fast as WAR/NIN or anything like that.

Wizardry · November 2006

I have unlocked every job a million times over but never in my long career ever unlocked DRG.No matter how you feel DRG will never get party invites the same as other jobs.I plan on unlocking it for the first time in the near future,just to have a little fun with it,but i wouldn't be distrught to see few and far between party invites.

I have invited DRG before in my parties but for only 2 reasons,so i hope this helps any DRG with trbls fininding a party>>he MUST have war subbed.The war sub gives a party a backup voker if main tank is having trbl with hate and we are talking rogue parties not well groomed statics or a perfect hate control setup.Secondly the voke can also be a handy tool to help with a SATA setup,there you have it,no /war you prolly not getting invite unless the party is desperate for a 6th...good luck on that party.Desperate=tough times usually.You can argue your level 60 DRG is this and that,but usefullness to the party is ALL that matters.BLM is the first DD party look for because they usually have backup healing and are great DD as well as MB,so strictly using DD as an arguement to invite a DRG falls well short.Like i said i find DRG and BST to be jobs that are fun to mess around with but not real party type jobs.

Kaizer407 · November 2006

Originally posted by Wizardry

I have unlocked every job a million times over but never in my long career ever unlocked DRG.No matter how you feel DRG will never get party invites the same as other jobs.I plan on unlocking it for the first time in the near future,just to have a little fun with it,but i wouldn't be distrught to see few and far between party invites.
I have invited DRG before in my parties but for only 2 reasons,so i hope this helps any DRG with trbls fininding a party>>he MUST have war subbed.The war sub gives a party a backup voker if main tank is having trbl with hate and we are talking rogue parties not well groomed statics or a perfect hate control setup.Secondly the voke can also be a handy tool to help with a SATA setup,there you have it,no /war you prolly not getting invite unless the party is desperate for a 6th...good luck on that party.Desperate=tough times usually.You can argue your level 60 DRG is this and that,but usefullness to the party is ALL that matters.BLM is the first DD party look for because they usually have backup healing and are great DD as well as MB,so strictly using DD as an arguement to invite a DRG falls well short.Like i said i find DRG and BST to be jobs that are fun to mess around with but not real party type jobs.

Yea i agree with you.. my DRG isnt that leveled yet, only 33. But yea the spot for a DRG in a PT does fall dead last.. yea im subbing WAR till 50 so i can change for SAM. but also getting invites is a problem therefore i create my own parties.. havent had any trouble yet. Yea DRG is useless in cases for RoZ and CoP missions.. especially CoP missions. But its what i like it, i find it so far to be a very fun job. yea i get alot of put downs and such, but its what i want... it will take ALOT of time into getting my DRG high leveled.. but it doesnt mean its impossible.

But for the most part yea i do agree with you

wyzwun · November 2006

Originally posted by Telaki
I can't even argue a point agasint that. So heres a bunch of random statments, and you can place them togeather if you wish.

I've been blind invited to parties as Beastmaster becuase they needed another DD.

Any job can deal good damage giving a specific circumstance, The 2H Damage formula is a fact, It also leads why Drk with Scythe and GS is down at the bottom of the barrel like Drg. Its the same way for Great Axe. Sure they hit heavy, But they have such a wide damage variety.

First, let me state my qualifications. I am a lvl75 Dark Knight that has been playing since day one of the ps2 launch. I have done almost everything in this game, hold about every title in this game. Now thats out of the way I will begin.

the 2handers had issues with TP gain, SE fixed this a long time ago (IE The floor has been removed). I can speak from experience that Scythe and Great Axe are deadly weapons, dishing out some of the best spike damage in the game because lets be real here, its about doing damage NOW, its about killing that shit NOW. DRG falls behind in this regard, they dont have spiral hell / spinning slash and such. DRG early on is a great SC partner but that role gets taken over in the 60s by war/nin.

Most people know, its about understanding WHAT your fighting. Using the correct food and adjusting your gear layout.

Like I've been leveling Warrior with Great Axe in my static, I do around 60-100 Per Normal Swing, Minimum 60 max 100, By stacking STR I can raise the Minimum up where I do a higher Average Damage. Its not so bad early on, but when you start getting up there in levels, Your Damage Range is Huge, and you need a massive ammount of STR, Too much STR IMO because you sacrifice STR for other item slots. As any melee Vetren will tell you, You should never gain TP in STR Gear, Only use it for WS. But with 2H weapons you almost needed to otherwise your DoT sucks.

Yeah you need to say what level you are. For Every 2 STR it equals 1 ATK. STR is very important for WS BUT if your using multi hit WS it makes for sense to use ACC equipment during your call. All melees should be walking around with 40 acc bonus and if your not, youre a complete gimp. Wars have aggressor which allows them a tremendous amount of acc Bottom line in a burn unless your doing a SC you should be going war/nin and using AXES. If your going war with 2hander you should have /mnk /sam /thf lvled. What job you use, depends on what your fighting and what your pt needs.

So jobs like DRG & DRK get shafted because they don't have a choice, Untill you hit endgame with DRK sub nin and dual wield Axes >.>

Any DRK that uses duel axes needs to quit, delete and roll a warrior. Your just a young ignorant player that has not seen much. Nothing wrong with that lol. DRK/DRG end game burn is an amazing combo and I am not going to explain why. I have to say, as a DRK I feel very strong, way stronger then a warrior in end game and just as strong in a melee burn Warrior cant close level 3, big problem.

I'm not here to bash your Dragoon Pride, but both of our arguments fit in this thread. Anyone who passes by reading, should know the good AND the bad of every job.

DRG is a broken class. That being said, dont lump DRK in the Goon, shit has changed A LOT. There are very few jobs that shine at the end (really just BLM and SMN on kirin) at the end, it is about team effort not about ones uberness

Grunk lvl75 DRK of Remora

http://www.nulifeguild.com/grunk

Telaki · November 2006

Man, I have to color Code that becuase its really hard to differentiate what I wrote, and What you wrote when you only use Bold to set the differance.

Originally posted by wyzwun

I can't even argue a point agasint that. So heres a bunch of random statments, and you can place them togeather if you wish.

I've been blind invited to parties as Beastmaster becuase they needed another DD.

Any job can deal good damage giving a specific circumstance, The 2H Damage formula is a fact, It also leads why Drk with Scythe and GS is down at the bottom of the barrel like Drg. Its the same way for Great Axe. Sure they hit heavy, But they have such a wide damage variety.

First, let me state my qualifications. I am a lvl75 Dark Knight that has been playing since day one of the ps2 launch. I have done almost everything in this game, hold about every title in this game. Now thats out of the way I will begin.

the 2handers had issues with TP gain, SE fixed this a long time ago (IE The floor has been removed). I can speak from experience that Scythe and Great Axe are deadly weapons, dishing out some of the best spike damage in the game because lets be real here, its about doing damage NOW, its about killing that shit NOW. DRG falls behind in this regard, they dont have spiral hell / spinning slash and such. DRG early on is a great SC partner but that role gets taken over in the 60s by war/nin.

Most people know, its about understanding WHAT your fighting. Using the correct food and adjusting your gear layout.

Like I've been leveling Warrior with Great Axe in my static, I do around 60-100 Per Normal Swing, Minimum 60 max 100, By stacking STR I can raise the Minimum up where I do a higher Average Damage. Its not so bad early on, but when you start getting up there in levels, Your Damage Range is Huge, and you need a massive ammount of STR, Too much STR IMO because you sacrifice STR for other item slots. As any melee Vetren will tell you, You should never gain TP in STR Gear, Only use it for WS. But with 2H weapons you almost needed to otherwise your DoT sucks.
Yeah you need to say what level you are. For Every 2 STR it equals 1 ATK. STR is very important for WS BUT if your using multi hit WS it makes for sense to use ACC equipment during your call. All melees should be walking around with 40 acc bonus and if your not, youre a complete gimp. Wars have aggressor which allows them a tremendous amount of acc Bottom line in a burn unless your doing a SC you should be going war/nin and using AXES. If your going war with 2hander you should have /mnk /sam /thf lvled. What job you use, depends on what your fighting and what your pt needs.

So jobs like DRG & DRK get shafted because they don't have a choice, Untill you hit endgame with DRK sub nin and dual wield Axes >.>

Any DRK that uses duel axes needs to quit, delete and roll a warrior. Your just a young ignorant player that has not seen much. Nothing wrong with that lol. DRK/DRG end game burn is an amazing combo and I am not going to explain why. I have to say, as a DRK I feel very strong, way stronger then a warrior in end game and just as strong in a melee burn Warrior cant close level 3, big problem.

I'm not here to bash your Dragoon Pride, but both of our arguments fit in this thread. Anyone who passes by reading, should know the good AND the bad of every job. DRG is a broken class. That being said, dont lump DRK in the Goon, shit has changed A LOT. There are very few jobs that shine at the end (really just BLM and SMN on kirin) at the end, it is about team effort not about ones uberness Grunk lvl75 DRK of Remora http://www.nulifeguild.com/grunk

*Deep Sigh*

I'm not even going to argue here, Becuase Its obvious that You didn't read what I said. Or maybe you just can't understand it. Either way its a lost cause.

I may be a Young and Ignorat player, But that doesn't change the fact I know more than you. I've been playing for about 2 1/2 years. In my time I"ve accomplished, 75 Whm, 75 Rdm, 75 Thf, 75 Bst, 75 PLD, 75 Sam, and Now i'm working on Brd which I dinged 55 Last night. I've partied with Every job with multipul job combonations (Except any 60+ Pups, there just arn't any...)

As my final Comments I'll leave you with this thread. Read through it, Around the 4th Page is where it gets interesting. And you may understand what the hell i'm talking about with the Damage Curve and 2H weapons, Because at the moment you obviously don't.

yomomma233 · November 2006

DRG pretty much out parsed most other dd in a few pts ive had one in there so there not useless >.> pentra thrust super jump is pretty usefull too :P

Originally posted by Telaki
Nothing (No melee at least) Deals more damage than a well equiped monk.

a well equiped nin? >_>

Telaki · November 2006

Originally posted by yomomma233
DRG pretty much out parsed most other dd in a few pts ive had one in there so there not useless >.> pentra thrust super jump is pretty usefull too :P Originally posted by Telaki
Nothing (No melee at least) Deals more damage than a well equiped monk.

a well equiped nin? >_>

Where you fighting somthing that flies? Spear is piercing so it gets a bonus to flying mobs like Birds, Imps, Puks, Bats, etc.

I've never seen or heard of a nin behing able to successfully hold hate agasint a well equiped mnk who isn't holding his punches, MNK's Damage is the HIghest DoT in the game.

When you compair jobs you must compair excpetional good, to excpetionally good. Having a Dragoon who's already got a Job to 75 and has Full merits for everything but Drg Job specific. With excpetionally awasome Gear, Controlled by a player who knows how to bring out Drg to its fullest. And then compairing him to an Average Bunch of Warriors, Samurai's, Ninja's, Drks, w/e. Who arn't merited, who don't have excpetional gear, Who arn't that good of a player. When DRG out parsers them, You can't jump to the conclusions that DRG is the Best DD in the game because he out Parsered So and So people on their jobs.

Of course there are exceptions to everything, All jobs are good in some sort of situation, Like I stated earlier in this post Polearm is Piercing damage. So if it flies DRG do awasome Damage.

Kaizer407 · November 2006

Just to clarify something... most people think Super Jump does damage, well it doesnt. Super Jump was made to lose or transfer hate to the person behind you.. if i read correctly.

wyzwun · November 2006

Originally posted by wyzwun

Originally posted by Telaki
I can't even argue a point agasint that. So heres a bunch of random statments, and you can place them togeather if you wish.

I've been blind invited to parties as Beastmaster becuase they needed another DD.

Any job can deal good damage giving a specific circumstance, The 2H Damage formula is a fact, It also leads why Drk with Scythe and GS is down at the bottom of the barrel like Drg. Its the same way for Great Axe. Sure they hit heavy, But they have such a wide damage variety.