It may be a good idea for MMORPG to have a special "Watch List" of games that are under some cloud when it comes to shady dealings and fraud. Or perhaps a special color or tag could be attached to the name.
This way the journalistic values of openess are upheld while the public is warned about possible fraud and danger to their bank accounts.
You need to keep it here to warn newcomers of the danger of this MMO. There are videos on youtube that some people may watch and get some crazy ideas. This of yourselves as the protectors of the virtual universe.
Originally posted by Signe While I might agree with you, IdesofMarch, about not removing games are "downright awful", I think that when one is fraught with deception, such as Mourning and DnL, it's rather different. The company which owns DnL is engaging in acts that I would consider beyond unethical. In fact, they seem to be committing acts that sound illegal to me. (disclaimer: I'm NOT a lawyer!)
Ok, but who are any of us to define what makes something unethical when it comes to the MMO world? Your definition may vary from mine, and ours may vary from the next person. I think both of your examples have such longstanding bad reputations in the community, that few people are going to be fooled or not take notice of the huge backlash they have recieved.
This site has a line as an MMO news source that they can't cross. If they said, "DnL has been run in an unquestionably unethical manner, thus it will be removed from the game list effective immediately." or something of the sorts, they'd be going against their identity as an unbiased source for MMO news. NP Cube/Farlan has done shady business, but they have released a game (as incomplete or bad as it may be) that fulfills the requirements this site has set forth.
While there is a lot going for DnL not being on the game list, it would put MMORPG.com in a terribly awkward spot where they'd no longer be an unbiased source for gaming information. And I'm fairly certain they don't want to do that unless they were given absolutely no choice.
There, Guild Wars hasn't been past Prophecies, and is still considered a "young game" there, after 18 months. Here there's Factions and Nightfall, very up-to-date.
Now getting back on-topic, yep, so why not remove bad graphics MMOs like Tibia and others? Bad graphics is not an excuse, MMORPG.com's objective is to keep track of every MMORPG, be it that good or not.
At this point, I seriously doubt any new would be gamer would be able to find Dark and Light. Given the recent practices of the company, which is a borderline scam by charging people months after the fact they have tried to forget the disaster. I do enjoy those forums for their comedic value. If you want to watch a trainrwreck with bodies everywhere its a good place to go. But there is definitely a legitamate point to at least entertaining the idea of its removal, if even only for the protection of fellow gamers to be scammed by their billing system.
Originally posted by CleffyII lol if they cleaned up the game list and removed all the subpar released games. It would be so much shorter. I don't even mean games that suck, but games that are down right horrible. Here is what the list: A Tale in the Desert III Archlord Anarchy Online Asheron's Call Auto Assault Battleground Europe: WWII Online City of Heroes City of Villians Dark Age of Camelot Dungeons and Dragons Online Eve Online Everquest Everquest 2 Final Fantasy XI FLYFF Guild Wars Guild Wars: Factions Guild Wars: Nightfall Hero Online Knight Online Legend of Mir 3 Legend of Mir: Three Heroes Lineage Lineage II Maple Story MU Online Phantasy Star Universe Priston Tale Ragnarok Online Rakion Ran Online Rappelz ROSE Online Runescape Ryzom Second Life Shot Online SilkRoad Online Space Cowboy Star Wars Galaxies The Matrix Online The Sims Online THERE Toontown Online Trickster Online Ultima Online Worlds of Warcraft As you can see the list is so much shorter, and still most of those games suck. If they even take it further and make the list only of descent games, then it would be shorter then 10.
This is the reason why mmorpg.com has the forums section. If you look at the list in the forums section, only the games with good followings are listed.
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Originally posted by darkedone02 Even though most players dislike Dark and Light cause they fooled the players of the bad graphic engine, and false movie things, it's not removing off the list unless they do something against mmorpg.com, just like what Mourning Online did.
If mmorpg.com removed any games without proper reasoning (games that are unpopular or "crappy" is not a valid reason) or under request by the game manufacturer then people would criticize them as being biased. As a media company they cannot afford being biased and still retain credibility. So what the OP is asking is pretty much impossible.
If you choose not to cover something; you are not biased. You are simply ignoring it. I was just reading though the controversy on page 3-4. I was saying before how it would be nice for mmorpg.com to be active in consumer advocacy if they were to have a separate section for poor products/services- but there would just be too many problems associated with that.
Honestly- what's wrong with just ignoring something? Isn't that just as damaging as giving negative attention- giving none? Look at all the bad press about Sony's initial launch and supply issues- is going to hurt them or help them? It's debateable. What if there was no press- would it hurt them? Unquestionably. The beauty of it is that choosing not to cover something is also very neutral.
Hope you got your things together. Hope you are quite prepared to die. Looks like we're in for nasty weather. ... There's a bad moon on the rise.
As a site, we removed one game once and only after intense personal attacks from their developers. This was before my time as Editor and in general, I have no interest in being anything less than complete. As such, in the future, we're looking at adding "Product Advisories" or something similar to the sections of games with major issues that potential customers should be aware of. For example, this recent D&L charging thing would be noted in that section, as would the history in the Thrones of Chaos section or the issues at EI Interactive in the Horizons section.
As to when? Well, honestly, as development priorities allow. It's not a question of our will, just technical resources to make the necessary changes.
Dana Massey Formerly of MMORPG.com Currently Lead Designer for Bit Trap Studios
Originally posted by darkedone02 Even though most players dislike Dark and Light cause they fooled the players of the bad graphic engine, and false movie things, it's not removing off the list unless they do something against mmorpg.com, just like what Mourning Online did.
May I ask what mourning did?
Check the Thrones of Chaos section. That's their newest "incarnation". Also, check google. I'm sure you'll find plenty of info.
It's a long long sad story (or humorous story depending on your perception). Basically the original developers of Mourning sold what was amount to a vaporware game to a lot of people (100+) and ran off with their money. What the "potential subscribers" received was a CD burned copy of the game client (the same one that can be downloaded off their beta website) in a white box after paying for their "pre-order". This is a classic case of a company that screwed their loyal customers. A few of the long time readers in mmorpg.com are still bitter about that.
I think the "Product Advisories" idea that Lepidus mentioned is a good one to go with. That way, new people can see what they are getting themselves into, MMORPG.COM can remain as an unbiased site and avoid legal shenanigans from crooked devs because they are only posting the facts, and we can add to it as we the members can add things as we find out and warn other gamers just as we do now. It's a fair compromise of still having games listed AND having the truth of them known. I like it.
We the members have a little bit of an advantage in getting the newest developments out to the others because we don't have to worry about the legal issues as much as the staff here, so we give them the breathing room to make inquiries and conduct investigative journalism to finalize what is true, while we can post from the beginning of whatever develops to get people to take a second look for themselves.
You have to admit, capturing and riding the giant wild dragons was cool. I've never had any other opportunity to ride a dragon. And there are good points to the game - being able to capture any mob that's out there and use it, and its spells as a pet. I haven't seen that in any other game. Being able to capture wild horses and ride them. In fact, in general, rides were easy to catch.
And riding those dragons was magical. Hang-gliding was way fun too. Snowboarding was kind of fun. Other games could learn from this. The only think that stinks is you lose your pets each time you die.
Also, the community is very European, so it's a great chance to practise spanish, french, portuguese, etc.
I haven't played anything that was the equal to AC2, though, and I've been looking for two years...
.... we're looking at adding "Product Advisories" or something similar to the sections of games with major issues that potential customers should be aware of.
As to when? Well, honestly, as development priorities allow. It's not a question of our will, just technical resources to make the necessary changes.
Thanks for looking out for the little guy.
Hope you got your things together. Hope you are quite prepared to die. Looks like we're in for nasty weather. ... There's a bad moon on the rise.
Comments
games that are under some cloud when it comes to shady dealings and
fraud. Or perhaps a special color or tag could be attached to the
name.
This way the journalistic values of openess are upheld while the public
is warned about possible fraud and danger to their bank accounts.
There are videos on youtube that some people may watch and get some
crazy ideas. This of yourselves as the protectors of the virtual
universe.
Ok, but who are any of us to define what makes something unethical when it comes to the MMO world? Your definition may vary from mine, and ours may vary from the next person. I think both of your examples have such longstanding bad reputations in the community, that few people are going to be fooled or not take notice of the huge backlash they have recieved.
This site has a line as an MMO news source that they can't cross. If they said, "DnL has been run in an unquestionably unethical manner, thus it will be removed from the game list effective immediately." or something of the sorts, they'd be going against their identity as an unbiased source for MMO news. NP Cube/Farlan has done shady business, but they have released a game (as incomplete or bad as it may be) that fulfills the requirements this site has set forth.
While there is a lot going for DnL not being on the game list, it would put MMORPG.com in a terribly awkward spot where they'd no longer be an unbiased source for gaming information. And I'm fairly certain they don't want to do that unless they were given absolutely no choice.
MMOSite.com is a piece of crap.
There, Guild Wars hasn't been past Prophecies, and is still considered a "young game" there, after 18 months. Here there's Factions and Nightfall, very up-to-date.
Now getting back on-topic, yep, so why not remove bad graphics MMOs like Tibia and others? Bad graphics is not an excuse, MMORPG.com's objective is to keep track of every MMORPG, be it that good or not.
to find Dark and Light. Given the recent practices of the
company, which is a borderline scam by charging people months after the
fact they have tried to forget the disaster. I do enjoy those
forums for their comedic value. If you want to watch a
trainrwreck with bodies everywhere its a good place to go. But
there is definitely a legitamate point to at least entertaining the
idea of its removal, if even only for the protection of fellow gamers
to be scammed by their billing system.
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MMORPG.com Spotlight Blog Writer
Co-Leader of Inquisition
Youtube Channel
MMORPG.COM has been listening: Link
---------------------------------------------
I live to fight, and fight to live.
Hello there, adventurer!
If mmorpg.com removed any games without proper reasoning (games that are unpopular or "crappy" is not a valid reason) or under request by the game manufacturer then people would criticize them as being biased. As a media company they cannot afford being biased and still retain credibility. So what the OP is asking is pretty much impossible.
If you choose not to cover something; you are not biased. You are simply ignoring it. I was just reading though the controversy on page 3-4. I was saying before how it would be nice for mmorpg.com to be active in consumer advocacy if they were to have a separate section for poor products/services- but there would just be too many problems associated with that.
Honestly- what's wrong with just ignoring something? Isn't that just as damaging as giving negative attention- giving none? Look at all the bad press about Sony's initial launch and supply issues- is going to hurt them or help them? It's debateable. What if there was no press- would it hurt them? Unquestionably. The beauty of it is that choosing not to cover something is also very neutral.
Hope you got your things together. Hope you are quite prepared to die. Looks like we're in for nasty weather. ... There's a bad moon on the rise.
As a site, we removed one game once and only after intense personal attacks from their developers. This was before my time as Editor and in general, I have no interest in being anything less than complete. As such, in the future, we're looking at adding "Product Advisories" or something similar to the sections of games with major issues that potential customers should be aware of. For example, this recent D&L charging thing would be noted in that section, as would the history in the Thrones of Chaos section or the issues at EI Interactive in the Horizons section.
As to when? Well, honestly, as development priorities allow. It's not a question of our will, just technical resources to make the necessary changes.
Dana Massey
Formerly of MMORPG.com
Currently Lead Designer for Bit Trap Studios
Check the Thrones of Chaos section. That's their newest "incarnation". Also, check google. I'm sure you'll find plenty of info.
How about instead of removing games they just add a new column labeled "Sucks" disabling the Hype Meter and setting the Hype to a negative max.
µV
I think the "Product Advisories" idea that Lepidus mentioned is a good one to go with. That way, new people can see what they are getting themselves into, MMORPG.COM can remain as an unbiased site and avoid legal shenanigans from crooked devs because they are only posting the facts, and we can add to it as we the members can add things as we find out and warn other gamers just as we do now. It's a fair compromise of still having games listed AND having the truth of them known. I like it.
We the members have a little bit of an advantage in getting the newest developments out to the others because we don't have to worry about the legal issues as much as the staff here, so we give them the breathing room to make inquiries and conduct investigative journalism to finalize what is true, while we can post from the beginning of whatever develops to get people to take a second look for themselves.
Or requires you to type a review that is composed of at least 100 words. I hate "two word" reviews.
And riding those dragons was magical. Hang-gliding was way fun too. Snowboarding was kind of fun. Other games could learn from this. The only think that stinks is you lose your pets each time you die.
Also, the community is very European, so it's a great chance to practise spanish, french, portuguese, etc.
I haven't played anything that was the equal to AC2, though, and I've been looking for two years...
Hope you got your things together. Hope you are quite prepared to die. Looks like we're in for nasty weather. ... There's a bad moon on the rise.