Originally posted by Nierro Obviously, whoever said "homosexualality is a sin" didn't give that much thought.
If god created all men and women, why would he conciously make gay ones only to say that they were sinful?... /sigh.
Maybe it was just a big cosmic "WHOOPS." I am not religious, but I could have sworn I heard that this god character was supposed to have "created man in his image." So that means god could have been gay. Not that it matters, just saying it could be.
Wow...go read Genesis please.
Your argument is like a two legged dog with an eating disorder...weak and unbalanced.
Originally posted by Nierro Obviously, whoever said "homosexualality is a sin" didn't give that much thought.
If god created all men and women, why would he conciously make gay ones only to say that they were sinful?... /sigh.
That's like saying that due to the fact that there is sin in the world that there can be no such thing as God. God didn't MAKE any gay people, he made people, and told them that homosexuality was wrong, but they did it anyway. All good things come through God, it's human beings that bring temptation and suffering into play. To say that God can't be good because God created evil shows a lack of understanding of the nature of God, at least with regards to the Christian faith.
Homo or heterosexuality is usually determined at birth, by the percentage levels of various hormones in the mother's body. Some choose the lifestyle, a choice I could never possibly understand, but they are irrelevant to the issue at hand. So, lets say I totally agree with your above statement Draenor, now answer this. Why then, would god create some human beings with a natural tendency, and the urge to do something that is sinful?
Now, I don't know about you, but I haven't felt a massive urge to go out and kill someone lately. The urge to have sex with the opposite gender is explained as something not wrong in and of itself, the only sin is in your actions upon it. So what is different here?
No man is an island, entire of itself; every man is a piece of the continent, a part of the main. any man's death diminishes me, because I am involved in mankind, and therefore never send to know for whom the bell tolls; it tolls for thee. Hemingway
Originally posted by Draenor Originally posted by Nierro Obviously, whoever said "homosexualality is a sin" didn't give that much thought.
If god created all men and women, why would he conciously make gay ones only to say that they were sinful?... /sigh.
That's like saying that due to the fact that there is sin in the world that there can be no such thing as God. God didn't MAKE any gay people, he made people, and told them that homosexuality was wrong, but they did it anyway. All good things come through God, it's human beings that bring temptation and suffering into play. To say that God can't be good because God created evil shows a lack of understanding of the nature of God, at least with regards to the Christian faith.
Originally posted by Draenor Originally posted by Nierro Obviously, whoever said "homosexualality is a sin" didn't give that much thought.
If god created all men and women, why would he conciously make gay ones only to say that they were sinful?... /sigh.
That's like saying that due to the fact that there is sin in the world that there can be no such thing as God. God didn't MAKE any gay people, he made people, and told them that homosexuality was wrong, but they did it anyway. All good things come through God, it's human beings that bring temptation and suffering into play. To say that God can't be good because God created evil shows a lack of understanding of the nature of God, at least with regards to the Christian faith. Refresh my memory....why exactly is being homosexual a sin?
Originally posted by BlazinBlades Originally posted by LilithIshtar Originally posted by knightknife Homosexuality is a sin, just like any other sin (such as murder, fornication etc)
All People are born with sin, and a desire to sin.
The Bible is clear that homosexuality is a sin though
*EDIT!!!! Also, most of the laws in the old testament were for the jews only
You do realize that not everyone is a christian, right? Yo do realize that not everyone's religion says homosexuality is a sin, right?
Right.
Well not all religions claim to follow the Bible, however most do claim to follow what the Bible teaches, and almost all of those religions except one that I know of are going against the bible the same one they claim to believe in and follow, by gradually accept Homosexuality which the bible clears shows as being wrong men shall not lye with men for unnatural purposes. But anyways people all have the freedom of choice and that is what Homosexuality is all about is choice, people choose to be gay, they are not born gay, their genres do not make them gay, they simple choose it. Bring it on down now.
Well now you know of two that go agaisn't the bible. The one I follow doesn't follow the teachings of the bible.
How can you say it's a choice? You're not homosexual, so you haven't a clue.
For me, it wasn't a choice. It's just who I am. It's as natural to me as breathing air.
We're all born a certain way. I was born one way, while others are born another.
No one wakes up and decides "Hey, I'm going to become gay!" Just like how you didn't wake up one day and go "Hey, I'm going to be straight!"
So saying "omg it's a sin!!" over and over again is simply idiotic. Not everyone follows the same religion, beliefs or morals. Thus that argument goes out the window.
But yea, whatever. You might as well deal with the fact that us homosexuals are not going to just suddenly "dissapear" off the planet. We've always been here, and we're always going to be here. ^_^
Originally posted by Aelfinn Draenor, now answer this. Why then, would god create some human beings with a natural tendency, and the urge to do something that is sinful? Now, I don't know about you, but I haven't felt a massive urge to go out and kill someone lately. The urge to have sex with the opposite gender is explained as something not wrong in and of itself, the only sin is in your actions upon it. So what is different here?
To answer your initial question: everyone has trials and temptations put before them, these trials are different for everyone...I consider homosexual lifestyles one of those temptations.
As far as your second paragraph...you hit the nail on the head. I usually qualify my postings about homosexuality with "homosexual lifestyles" as in, those who sleep with members of the same sex. Which is what I mean when I say that homosexuality is wrong, it's the physical act, not the urge to do the act.
Your argument is like a two legged dog with an eating disorder...weak and unbalanced.
Refresh my memory....why exactly is being homosexual a sin?
The physical act of homosexuality is a sin because it is like slapping God in the face. You are telling God that his plan of having men be with women isn't good enough for you, and that you are going to do whatever you want. God had a plan for how humans would exist and procreate, and homosexuality stands contrasting to that plan.
Now just in case any non christians feel like reminding me:
I know that not all of you are Christians, so please don't feel the overwhelming urge to remind me of something so bloody obvious. I speak from a Christian point of view, if you want to give yours, like Lilith does, then that's fine, but there is no need to continually remind people that not everyone is the same religion, because we all know that already.
Your argument is like a two legged dog with an eating disorder...weak and unbalanced.
Homo or heterosexuality is usually determined at birth, by the percentage levels of various hormones in the mother's body. Some choose the lifestyle, a choice I could never possibly understand, but they are irrelevant to the issue at hand. So, lets say I totally agree with your above statement Draenor, now answer this. Why then, would god create some human beings with a natural tendency, and the urge to do something that is sinful?
Every human being that I know has urges to do things that God would deem as wrong. While my temptations aren't homosexual, I do have them. I dont see how this would disprove or somehow make religion seem null and void. One of the great struggles in life is to overcome temptation so that we can gain blessings from obedience and work toward eternal life. Call it Karma, random luck or blessings from heaven, but my personal experience is that I am a happier and more blessed human being when I follow the Lord's teachings.
Now, I don't know about you, but I haven't felt a massive urge to go out and kill someone lately. The urge to have sex with the opposite gender is explained as something not wrong in and of itself, the only sin is in your actions upon it. So what is different here?
Dont go around saying the world owes you a living. The world owes you nothing. It was here first. (Mark Twain)
Galileo was persecuted for revealing what we now know to be the truth regarding Earths place in our solar system. Today, the issue is homosexuality, and the persecution is not of one man but of millions. Will Christian leaders once again be on the wrong side of history?Way to compare apples to volkswagens.
Correction: Despite what you might have read, heard or been taught throughout your churchgoing life, homosexuality is, in fact, determined at birth and is not to be condemned by God's followers.I stopped caring what this guy said at this point. Yeah, he's made some good points, but it's all biased, even if it does turn out to be true. He's as in the wrong as the close-minded Christians by saying that he knows for sure what "the fact" is.
Until scientists can actually find the one gene that causes you to talk with a lisp and listen to Barbera Streisand, the wisest and most rational choice of action is to remain agnostic.
_____________________________________ "Io rido, e rider mio non passa dentro; Io ardo, e l'arsion mia non par di fore." -Machiavelli
I'm still a little bit miffed that the initial article tries to say that the Bible asserts that the Earth is the center of the universe...it uses that as its basis of inconsistancy in the Church, but it's a completely false accusation. Just because it was an accepted theory among the Church at the time, it doesn't mean that the Bible said anything about it...Hell, people did a lot of things that weren't in the Bible back then...crusades anyone?
Your argument is like a two legged dog with an eating disorder...weak and unbalanced.
Originally posted by Briansho Originally posted by porgie http://blogs.usatoday.com/oped/2006/11/when_religion_l.htmlWhen religion loses its credibility Galileo was persecuted for revealing what we now know to be the truth regarding Earths place in our solar system. Today, the issue is homosexuality, and the persecution is not of one man but of millions. Will Christian leaders once again be on the wrong side of history?
What does the position of the Earth in the solar system have to do with a guy sticking his thingy up another guys bunghole? What kind of unknown truth is homosexuality supposed to reveal? There are many diseases associated with anal sex mainly because its supposed to be used for an exit not an entry whether you are a homosexual or not. It has to do with the title of this thread. The credibility of the church. You look back at history and you find time and time again the church has strayed from what it says are it's principles. And then held fast to what it believes are facts only to be proven wrong time and time again. It's the reason so many people question religion these days. Because it has a historical reputation for being wrong. And when it is proven wrong in this case the only conclusion is that people will question it credibility even more.
The same way I question your ablity to use empathy towards another human being.
And by the way, anal sex is not an action that homosexuals can claim singly as their own. There is plenty of anal sex going on between heterosexual men and women.
Originally posted by Draenor The Bible never asserts that the Earth is the center of the Universe, it does however assert that homosexuality is wrong...that's the difference.A history lesson: In the Old Testament, Job 26:7 explains that the earth is suspended in spacethe obvious comparison being with the spherical sun and moon. By 150 B.C., the Greek astronomer Eratosthenes had already measured the 25,000-mile circumference of the earth. The round shape of our planet was a conclusion easily drawn by watching ships disappear over the horizon and also by observing eclipse shadows, and we can assume that such information was well known to New Testament writers. Earth's spherical shape was, of course, also understood by Christopher Columbus. Some people may have thought the earth was flat, but certainly not the great explorers. Some Bible critics have claimed that Revelation 7:1 assumes a flat earth since the verse refers to angels standing at the "four corners" of the earth. Actually, the reference is to the cardinal directions: north, south, east, and west. Similar terminology is often used today when we speak of the sun's rising and setting, even though the earth, not the sun, is doing the moving. Bible writers used the "language of appearance," just as people always have. Without it, the intended message would be awkward at best and probably not understood clearly. When the Bible touches on scientific subjects, it is entirely accurate. This one is pretty funny too since the bible NEVER said the earth is the center of the universe, yet it's often claimed that the bible says it... It doesn't. There is not one statement in the bible saying the planet earth is the center of the universe. None. The planet earth being described as the center of the universe was promoted by the Alexandrian astronomer and mathematician Ptolemy in the 2nd century AD. In Ptolemy's system, the earth is at the center of spheres having stars and such attached to them that rotate around the earth. Ptolemy based his system on earlier work from Aristotle, while Aristotle built on theories from Eudoxus and Callippus. Later on in the 16th century, Copernicus suggested a helio-centric or sun centered universe. Newton later described Ptolemy's prior work in astronomy as doing science, and called Ptolemy a scientist, but also claimed that Ptolemy had committed fraud in the data he took. Regardless, Ptolemy's work remained a reference text for astronomy, promoting a geocentric universe for the next 1400 years after he died. Neither Ptolemy nor Copernicus were right, nor were Aristotle, Eudoxus, or Callippus before them. Both Ptolomy and Copernicus were astronomers or "science of the day", both were wrong... the earth is NOT the center of the universe, and neither is the sun. Hence, science promoted incorrect theories for CENTURIES where blame for those theories being wrong is then often times placed on the bible... yet the bible NEVER said it. In fact, in Job, God told Job that Elihu was WRONG about the "solid glass sky dome", and said that they didn't understand from the "foundations of the earth"... described in Genesis, the solar system's formation.
It's got nothing to do with someone making a website saying that the Bible doesn't say that. What it's got to do with is how the church treats people by using Biblical scripture to suit it's needs. The church during Copernicus' time was out for maintaining power (not that much has changed really) and found that science and new ways of thinking and approaching things was causing people to question what had been promoted as truth from the church. So, it used its influence to put down and shut up these people and not allow the advancement of new ideas.
The church is losing credibility all the time. People around the world are beginning to question it even more in these modern times. The last 500 years have been a downhill slide for the church and unless it pulls it's rightous head out of its ass its days are numbered. More and more people are moving towards more personal spiritual growth and leaving the institution behind. It's an ancient organization that has held us back for long enough. And I along with a growing number of people are ready for what's next. To seek answers using quantifiable evidence instead of reaching for the same tired old explanations based on myth and superstition.
We're sick of the tools that the church uses against us all the time. The fear and guilt that used to enslave men and women of the past. We're ready to turn to the tools that God has given us and not look to an organization but instead to look to ourselves and the unique abilities God has given each of us. We were all made different so that we can come together and learn from one another. We're tired of the devisiveness of religion and its promotion of segregation and conformity.
Originally posted by Awakened Originally posted by Nierro Obviously, whoever said "homosexualality is a sin" didn't give that much thought.
If god created all men and women, why would he conciously make gay ones only to say that they were sinful?... /sigh.
The obvious answer would be "God wouldn't make people gay at birth". Doesn't make sense anyway from a religious sandpoint, what purpose would there be in creating people that aren't interested in reproducing? To teach people to believe in love and tolerance over fear and bigotry.
Originally posted by Draenor Originally posted by Awakened Originally posted by Nierro Obviously, whoever said "homosexualality is a sin" didn't give that much thought.
If god created all men and women, why would he conciously make gay ones only to say that they were sinful?... /sigh.
The obvious answer would be "God wouldn't make people gay at birth". Doesn't make sense anyway from a religious sandpoint, what purpose would there be in creating people that aren't interested in reproducing? And what sense does it make from an evolutionary standpoint either? To have beings that are unwilling to reproduce, what purpose does that serve for the species? As I said earlier, it's not about the function of homosexuality, it's about God's intent on how man and women were to live with eachother. What sense does it make from an evolutionary standpoint to make people who are autistic? Or people who are sterile? Or how about people who are ugly and can never find a mate? Or how about someone who becomes schozophrenic right during the prime of their life? Or anyone with a disability that hampers their chances of finding a mate?
Your argument is too idealistic to make any sense. People aren't made the same in so many different ways. So how can you begin to say in this one case all humans are the same yet in every other way there are variations?
Originally posted by Blurr Someone wanna check if the OP and reavo are the same person? Same silly posting tactics. No sneaky business now.
Says we live in the same town. But I've never met a George Nichols, nor claimed to be one. I started taking medicine to snuff out my alter personalities years ago. I feel much better now.
Are you talking about posting news articles? I'm not the only one that does that.
Besides, modjoe and I are really one and the same. LOL!!!
Lilih, I never said anything bad about Gay people, I have nothing against gay people, if a person wishs to live their life as a queer then they can by all means live their own life that way. People are not born gay, nor can you prove that they are, there is no evidence or proof of any kind that proves it. The reason for that is simple, because its not true, now some will say, yea well there is no proof proving that people are not born gay either, well unfortunately for them, they have not done their homework, their in fact is plenty of evidence that does in fact prove that people are not born gay.
I always like to keep things simple though, and for me, I just simple look at the human body itself, and that in itself proves to me without any shadow of a doubt that people are not meant to be together when they are the same sex. You can sit there and go on and on with whatever sort of mumbo jumbo you want, however a women does not impregnate another women, and a man does not impregnate another man, either way you slice it, people of the same sex are not suppose to be together sexually, it is unnatural, it is not natural. Now if you can go into a room with another women and have sex with her, use no toys or anything like that just you and her and thats it nothing else and get yourself pregnant then maybe I will take another look at it, unfortunately you can not do that because you and I both know that the Female body is not made that way, and we both know the Male body is not made that way for male on male action.
Gay people choose to be gay, they are not evil people or monsters or anything like that, they just choose to live that way. I do not agree with that life style I feel it is wrong, but I myself am no saint as you already know Lilith you already view me a womanizing whore of a man, which is not nice by the way, I do have feelings and I am a sensitive person you know.
But your latter partbut yea,whatever. You might as well deal with thomosexuals are not going to just suddenly "he fact that usdissapear" off the planet. We've always beenhere, and we're alwaysgoing to be here. ^_^
This part is not nice you know, I have nothing that I need to deal with, I have no problem with you being a gay. After all, the more women in bed the merrier life can be. Bring it on down now.
Damn byotch dat aint no friggn moon fool, dat be a friggn space station byotch.
Originally posted by Draenor Originally posted by NierroRefresh my memory....why exactly is being homosexual a sin?
The physical act of homosexuality is a sin because it is like slapping God in the face. You are telling God that his plan of having men be with women isn't good enough for you, and that you are going to do whatever you want. God had a plan for how humans would exist and procreate, and homosexuality stands contrasting to that plan.
Now just in case any non christians feel like reminding me:
I know that not all of you are Christians, so please don't feel the overwhelming urge to remind me of something so bloody obvious. I speak from a Christian point of view, if you want to give yours, like Lilith does, then that's fine, but there is no need to continually remind people that not everyone is the same religion, because we all know that already.
Originally posted by BlazinBlades I always like to keep things simple though, and for me, I just simple look at the human body itself, and that in itself proves to me without any shadow of a doubt that people are not meant to be together when they are the same sex. You can sit there and go on and on with whatever sort of mumbo jumbo you want, however a women does not impregnate another women, and a man does not impregnate another man, either way you slice it, people of the same sex are not suppose to be together sexually, it is unnatural, it is not natural. Now if you can go into a room with another women and have sex with her, use no toys or anything like that just you and her and thats it nothing else and get yourself pregnant then maybe I will take another look at it, unfortunately you can not do that because you and I both know that the Female body is not made that way, and we both know the Male body is not made that way for male on male action.
Okay, then let's keep it simple as you like to do. If you were to observe a straight man looking at a naked woman you would notice a physical change in the man. He would get an erection. Why, because he is sexually attracted to women. Now, if that same man observes a naked man, he does not get an erection. Why, because he is NOT sexually attracted to men.
On the other hand, if you observe a gay man looking at a naked male, you will see the gay man become sexually aroused just like a straight man looking at a woman would. However, the gay man would not be sexually aroused by looking at a naked woman.
That's nature. Pure and simple.
And then there is the lack of capacity for a gay man to fall in love with a woman as well. And it's not fair to try to force someone to play like they are in love with someone just to try to fit into society. It's not fair to the man or the woman involved. And if they do happen to have children then it's not fair to the kids as well. How could children learn about the love of a couple if they observe their parents never touching or enjoying each others company the way a couple in love does?
There is a Biblical piece of text that pertains to that as well. It's called bearing false witness. So saying you love a woman and marrying her when you really don't would seem to me to be breaking one of the 10 commandments.
What sense does it make from an evolutionary standpoint to make people who are autistic? Or people who are sterile? Or how about people who are ugly and can never find a mate? Or how about someone who becomes schozophrenic right during the prime of their life? Or anyone with a disability that hampers their chances of finding a mate?
Your argument is too idealistic to make any sense. People aren't made the same in so many different ways. So how can you begin to say in this one case all humans are the same yet in every other way there are variations?
By this logic, you are lumping homosexuality into the category of genetic defects, which I don't think many sane people would agree with. Your argument is invalid because you are comparing two completely different issues of adaptive anomolies. You are comparing autism and Schizophrenia with homosexuality? Apples to cieling fans.
Your argument is like a two legged dog with an eating disorder...weak and unbalanced.
Okay, then let's keep it simple as you like to do. If you were to observe a straight man looking at a naked woman you would notice a physical change in the man. He would get an erection. Why, because he is sexually attracted to women. Now, if that same man observes a naked man, he does not get an erection. Why, because he is NOT sexually attracted to men.
On the other hand, if you observe a gay man looking at a naked male, you will see the gay man become sexually aroused just like a straight man looking at a woman would. However, the gay man would not be sexually aroused by looking at a naked woman.
That's nature. Pure and simple.
And then there is the lack of capacity for a gay man to fall in love with a woman as well. And it's not fair to try to force someone to play like they are in love with someone just to try to fit into society. It's not fair to the man or the woman involved. And if they do happen to have children then it's not fair to the kids as well. How could children learn about the love of a couple if they observe their parents never touching or enjoying each others company the way a couple in love does?
There is a Biblical piece of text that pertains to that as well. It's called bearing false witness. So saying you love a woman and marrying her when you really don't would seem to me to be breaking one of the 10 commandments.
I don't see the point you are trying to make...is your argument simply that homosexuality is a part of nature? (conjecture based on your post about the homosexual animal exibit awhile back) Because animals have been known to engage in necrophelia, canibalism, and infanticide...so technically that is part of nature, it doesn't make it right for humans to do it. As far as the biblical text you are refering to, of course lying is a sin when it is done with malicious or selfish intent...I don't think anyone is going to argue with you about that, but I fail to see what it has to do with homosexuality.
Your argument is like a two legged dog with an eating disorder...weak and unbalanced.
Originally posted by Nierro Refresh my memory....why exactly is being homosexual a sin?
The physical act of homosexuality is a sin because it is like slapping God in the face. You are telling God that his plan of having men be with women isn't good enough for you, and that you are going to do whatever you want. God had a plan for how humans would exist and procreate, and homosexuality stands contrasting to that plan.
Now just in case any non christians feel like reminding me:
I know that not all of you are Christians, so please don't feel the overwhelming urge to remind me of something so bloody obvious. I speak from a Christian point of view, if you want to give yours, like Lilith does, then that's fine, but there is no need to continually remind people that not everyone is the same religion, because we all know that already.
I'm pretty sure people don't choose to be gay..
That's really a matter of personal opinion. I believe that some people are born with a predisposition towards it for whatever reason, and still others simply adopt the lifestyle purely by choice. Neither of which make it right to do so.
And again, yes I know that not everybody is a Christian, so don't use that argument with me, I won't even respond to it, which is why I'm just putting my disclaimer here. These opinions are based on my own faith and if you don't like them then that's fine, but don't try to remind me that not everybody shares my beliefs, because I think I know that
Your argument is like a two legged dog with an eating disorder...weak and unbalanced.
Originally posted by Draenor Originally posted by Nierro Originally posted by Draenor Originally posted by NierroRefresh my memory....why exactly is being homosexual a sin?
The physical act of homosexuality is a sin because it is like slapping God in the face. You are telling God that his plan of having men be with women isn't good enough for you, and that you are going to do whatever you want. God had a plan for how humans would exist and procreate, and homosexuality stands contrasting to that plan.
Now just in case any non christians feel like reminding me:
I know that not all of you are Christians, so please don't feel the overwhelming urge to remind me of something so bloody obvious. I speak from a Christian point of view, if you want to give yours, like Lilith does, then that's fine, but there is no need to continually remind people that not everyone is the same religion, because we all know that already.
I'm pretty sure people don't choose to be gay..
That's really a matter of personal opinion. I believe that some people are born with a predisposition towards it for whatever reason, and still others simply adopt the lifestyle purely by choice. Neither of which make it right to do so.
And again, yes I know that not everybody is a Christian, so don't use that argument with me, I won't even respond to it, which is why I'm just putting my disclaimer here. These opinions are based on my own faith and if you don't like them then that's fine, but don't try to remind me that not everybody shares my beliefs, because I think I know that
Alrighty, no use debating you because i'm never going to change your mind.
It's got nothing to do with someone making a website saying that the Bible doesn't say that. What it's got to do with is how the church treats people by using Biblical scripture to suit it's needs. The church during Copernicus' time was out for maintaining power (not that much has changed really) and found that science and new ways of thinking and approaching things was causing people to question what had been promoted as truth from the church. So, it used its influence to put down and shut up these people and not allow the advancement of new ideas.
The church is losing credibility all the time. People around the world are beginning to question it even more in these modern times. The last 500 years have been a downhill slide for the church and unless it pulls it's rightous head out of its ass its days are numbered. More and more people are moving towards more personal spiritual growth and leaving the institution behind. It's an ancient organization that has held us back for long enough. And I along with a growing number of people are ready for what's next. To seek answers using quantifiable evidence instead of reaching for the same tired old explanations based on myth and superstition.
We're sick of the tools that the church uses against us all the time. The fear and guilt that used to enslave men and women of the past. We're ready to turn to the tools that God has given us and not look to an organization but instead to look to ourselves and the unique abilities God has given each of us. We were all made different so that we can come together and learn from one another. We're tired of the devisiveness of religion and its promotion of segregation and conformity.
My aim was to point out that the Church at the time was not basing the belief that the Earth is the center of the universe on anything from the Bible, not to incite your anti religious rant. What I said is still true, the Bible never asserts that the Earth is the center of the Universe, and that wasn't a Christian idea to begin with. It was simply adopted by the Church because they didn't know better, and when someone questioned it, they felt that their authority was being challenged. At that time the Church was extremely powerfull and influental in the daily lives of most people...things have changed. In the future I suggest you keep rants like this to yourself though, this wasn't based upon anything but an obvious loathing for all things religious, and provided nothing constructive for the topic at hand.
Your argument is like a two legged dog with an eating disorder...weak and unbalanced.
I always like to keep things simple though, and for me, I just simple look at the human body itself, and that in itself proves to me without any shadow of a doubt that people are not meant to be together when they are the same sex. You can sit there and go on and on with whatever sort of mumbo jumbo you want, however a women does not impregnate another women, and a man does not impregnate another man, either way you slice it, people of the same sex are not suppose to be together sexually, it is unnatural, it is not natural. Now if you can go into a room with another women and have sex with her, use no toys or anything like that just you and her and thats it nothing else and get yourself pregnant then maybe I will take another look at it, unfortunately you can not do that because you and I both know that the Female body is not made that way, and we both know the Male body is not made that way for male on male action.
Okay, then let's keep it simple as you like to do. If you were to observe a straight man looking at a naked woman you would notice a physical change in the man. He would get an erection. Why, because he is sexually attracted to women. Now, if that same man observes a naked man, he does not get an erection. Why, because he is NOT sexually attracted to men.
On the other hand, if you observe a gay man looking at a naked male, you will see the gay man become sexually aroused just like a straight man looking at a woman would. However, the gay man would not be sexually aroused by looking at a naked woman.
That's nature. Pure and simple.
And then there is the lack of capacity for a gay man to fall in love with a woman as well. And it's not fair to try to force someone to play like they are in love with someone just to try to fit into society. It's not fair to the man or the woman involved. And if they do happen to have children then it's not fair to the kids as well. How could children learn about the love of a couple if they observe their parents never touching or enjoying each others company the way a couple in love does?
There is a Biblical piece of text that pertains to that as well. It's called bearing false witness. So saying you love a woman and marrying her when you really don't would seem to me to be breaking one of the 10 commandments.
LMAO, nuff said. Bring it on down now.
Damn byotch dat aint no friggn moon fool, dat be a friggn space station byotch.
Comments
Wow...go read Genesis please.
Your argument is like a two legged dog with an eating disorder...weak and unbalanced.
Homo or heterosexuality is usually determined at birth, by the percentage levels of various hormones in the mother's body. Some choose the lifestyle, a choice I could never possibly understand, but they are irrelevant to the issue at hand. So, lets say I totally agree with your above statement Draenor, now answer this. Why then, would god create some human beings with a natural tendency, and the urge to do something that is sinful?
Now, I don't know about you, but I haven't felt a massive urge to go out and kill someone lately. The urge to have sex with the opposite gender is explained as something not wrong in and of itself, the only sin is in your actions upon it. So what is different here?
No man is an island, entire of itself; every man is a piece of the continent, a part of the main. any man's death diminishes me, because I am involved in mankind, and therefore never send to know for whom the bell tolls; it tolls for thee.
Hemingway
Refresh my memory....why exactly is being homosexual a sin?
Yo do realize that not everyone's religion says homosexuality is a sin, right?
Right.
Well not all religions claim to follow the Bible, however most do claim to follow what the Bible teaches, and almost all of those religions except one that I know of are going against the bible the same one they claim to believe in and follow, by gradually accept Homosexuality which the bible clears shows as being wrong men shall not lye with men for unnatural purposes. But anyways people all have the freedom of choice and that is what Homosexuality is all about is choice, people choose to be gay, they are not born gay, their genres do not make them gay, they simple choose it. Bring it on down now.
Well now you know of two that go agaisn't the bible. The one I follow doesn't follow the teachings of the bible.
How can you say it's a choice? You're not homosexual, so you haven't a clue.
For me, it wasn't a choice. It's just who I am. It's as natural to me as breathing air.
We're all born a certain way. I was born one way, while others are born another.
No one wakes up and decides "Hey, I'm going to become gay!" Just like how you didn't wake up one day and go "Hey, I'm going to be straight!"
So saying "omg it's a sin!!" over and over again is simply idiotic. Not everyone follows the same religion, beliefs or morals. Thus that argument goes out the window.
But yea, whatever. You might as well deal with the fact that us homosexuals are not going to just suddenly "dissapear" off the planet. We've always been here, and we're always going to be here. ^_^
Independant, Shinto, Lesbian, and Proud!
To answer your initial question: everyone has trials and temptations put before them, these trials are different for everyone...I consider homosexual lifestyles one of those temptations.
As far as your second paragraph...you hit the nail on the head. I usually qualify my postings about homosexuality with "homosexual lifestyles" as in, those who sleep with members of the same sex. Which is what I mean when I say that homosexuality is wrong, it's the physical act, not the urge to do the act.
Your argument is like a two legged dog with an eating disorder...weak and unbalanced.
The physical act of homosexuality is a sin because it is like slapping God in the face. You are telling God that his plan of having men be with women isn't good enough for you, and that you are going to do whatever you want. God had a plan for how humans would exist and procreate, and homosexuality stands contrasting to that plan.
Now just in case any non christians feel like reminding me:
I know that not all of you are Christians, so please don't feel the overwhelming urge to remind me of something so bloody obvious. I speak from a Christian point of view, if you want to give yours, like Lilith does, then that's fine, but there is no need to continually remind people that not everyone is the same religion, because we all know that already.
Your argument is like a two legged dog with an eating disorder...weak and unbalanced.
Dont go around saying the world owes you a living. The world owes you nothing. It was here first. (Mark Twain)
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"Io rido, e rider mio non passa dentro;
Io ardo, e l'arsion mia non par di fore."
-Machiavelli
Someone wanna check if the OP and reavo are the same person?
Same silly posting tactics. No sneaky business now.
"Because it's easier to nitpick something than to be constructive." -roach5000
Your argument is like a two legged dog with an eating disorder...weak and unbalanced.
It has to do with the title of this thread. The credibility of the church. You look back at history and you find time and time again the church has strayed from what it says are it's principles. And then held fast to what it believes are facts only to be proven wrong time and time again. It's the reason so many people question religion these days. Because it has a historical reputation for being wrong. And when it is proven wrong in this case the only conclusion is that people will question it credibility even more.
The same way I question your ablity to use empathy towards another human being.
And by the way, anal sex is not an action that homosexuals can claim singly as their own. There is plenty of anal sex going on between heterosexual men and women.
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The church is losing credibility all the time. People around the world are beginning to question it even more in these modern times. The last 500 years have been a downhill slide for the church and unless it pulls it's rightous head out of its ass its days are numbered. More and more people are moving towards more personal spiritual growth and leaving the institution behind. It's an ancient organization that has held us back for long enough. And I along with a growing number of people are ready for what's next. To seek answers using quantifiable evidence instead of reaching for the same tired old explanations based on myth and superstition.
We're sick of the tools that the church uses against us all the time. The fear and guilt that used to enslave men and women of the past. We're ready to turn to the tools that God has given us and not look to an organization but instead to look to ourselves and the unique abilities God has given each of us. We were all made different so that we can come together and learn from one another. We're tired of the devisiveness of religion and its promotion of segregation and conformity.
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To teach people to believe in love and tolerance over fear and bigotry.
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And what sense does it make from an evolutionary standpoint either? To have beings that are unwilling to reproduce, what purpose does that serve for the species? As I said earlier, it's not about the function of homosexuality, it's about God's intent on how man and women were to live with eachother.
What sense does it make from an evolutionary standpoint to make people who are autistic? Or people who are sterile? Or how about people who are ugly and can never find a mate? Or how about someone who becomes schozophrenic right during the prime of their life? Or anyone with a disability that hampers their chances of finding a mate?
Your argument is too idealistic to make any sense. People aren't made the same in so many different ways. So how can you begin to say in this one case all humans are the same yet in every other way there are variations?
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Are you talking about posting news articles? I'm not the only one that does that.
Besides, modjoe and I are really one and the same. LOL!!!
Lilih, I never said anything bad about Gay people, I have nothing against gay people, if a person wishs to live their life as a queer then they can by all means live their own life that way. People are not born gay, nor can you prove that they are, there is no evidence or proof of any kind that proves it. The reason for that is simple, because its not true, now some will say, yea well there is no proof proving that people are not born gay either, well unfortunately for them, they have not done their homework, their in fact is plenty of evidence that does in fact prove that people are not born gay.
I always like to keep things simple though, and for me, I just simple look at the human body itself, and that in itself proves to me without any shadow of a doubt that people are not meant to be together when they are the same sex. You can sit there and go on and on with whatever sort of mumbo jumbo you want, however a women does not impregnate another women, and a man does not impregnate another man, either way you slice it, people of the same sex are not suppose to be together sexually, it is unnatural, it is not natural. Now if you can go into a room with another women and have sex with her, use no toys or anything like that just you and her and thats it nothing else and get yourself pregnant then maybe I will take another look at it, unfortunately you can not do that because you and I both know that the Female body is not made that way, and we both know the Male body is not made that way for male on male action.
Gay people choose to be gay, they are not evil people or monsters or anything like that, they just choose to live that way. I do not agree with that life style I feel it is wrong, but I myself am no saint as you already know Lilith you already view me a womanizing whore of a man, which is not nice by the way, I do have feelings and I am a sensitive person you know.
But your latter part but yea, whatever. You might as well deal with thomosexuals are not going to just suddenly "he fact that us dissapear" off the planet. We've always been here, and we're always going to be here. ^_^
This part is not nice you know, I have nothing that I need to deal with, I have no problem with you being a gay. After all, the more women in bed the merrier life can be
. Bring it on down now.
Damn byotch dat aint no friggn moon fool, dat be a friggn space station byotch.
The physical act of homosexuality is a sin because it is like slapping God in the face. You are telling God that his plan of having men be with women isn't good enough for you, and that you are going to do whatever you want. God had a plan for how humans would exist and procreate, and homosexuality stands contrasting to that plan.
Now just in case any non christians feel like reminding me:
I know that not all of you are Christians, so please don't feel the overwhelming urge to remind me of something so bloody obvious. I speak from a Christian point of view, if you want to give yours, like Lilith does, then that's fine, but there is no need to continually remind people that not everyone is the same religion, because we all know that already.
I'm pretty sure people don't choose to be gay..
On the other hand, if you observe a gay man looking at a naked male, you will see the gay man become sexually aroused just like a straight man looking at a woman would. However, the gay man would not be sexually aroused by looking at a naked woman.
That's nature. Pure and simple.
And then there is the lack of capacity for a gay man to fall in love with a woman as well. And it's not fair to try to force someone to play like they are in love with someone just to try to fit into society. It's not fair to the man or the woman involved. And if they do happen to have children then it's not fair to the kids as well. How could children learn about the love of a couple if they observe their parents never touching or enjoying each others company the way a couple in love does?
There is a Biblical piece of text that pertains to that as well. It's called bearing false witness. So saying you love a woman and marrying her when you really don't would seem to me to be breaking one of the 10 commandments.
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Your argument is like a two legged dog with an eating disorder...weak and unbalanced.
Your argument is like a two legged dog with an eating disorder...weak and unbalanced.
The physical act of homosexuality is a sin because it is like slapping God in the face. You are telling God that his plan of having men be with women isn't good enough for you, and that you are going to do whatever you want. God had a plan for how humans would exist and procreate, and homosexuality stands contrasting to that plan.
Now just in case any non christians feel like reminding me:
I know that not all of you are Christians, so please don't feel the overwhelming urge to remind me of something so bloody obvious. I speak from a Christian point of view, if you want to give yours, like Lilith does, then that's fine, but there is no need to continually remind people that not everyone is the same religion, because we all know that already.
I'm pretty sure people don't choose to be gay..
That's really a matter of personal opinion. I believe that some people are born with a predisposition towards it for whatever reason, and still others simply adopt the lifestyle purely by choice. Neither of which make it right to do so.
And again, yes I know that not everybody is a Christian, so don't use that argument with me, I won't even respond to it, which is why I'm just putting my disclaimer here. These opinions are based on my own faith and if you don't like them then that's fine, but don't try to remind me that not everybody shares my beliefs, because I think I know that
Your argument is like a two legged dog with an eating disorder...weak and unbalanced.
The physical act of homosexuality is a sin because it is like slapping God in the face. You are telling God that his plan of having men be with women isn't good enough for you, and that you are going to do whatever you want. God had a plan for how humans would exist and procreate, and homosexuality stands contrasting to that plan.
Now just in case any non christians feel like reminding me:
I know that not all of you are Christians, so please don't feel the overwhelming urge to remind me of something so bloody obvious. I speak from a Christian point of view, if you want to give yours, like Lilith does, then that's fine, but there is no need to continually remind people that not everyone is the same religion, because we all know that already.
I'm pretty sure people don't choose to be gay..
That's really a matter of personal opinion. I believe that some people are born with a predisposition towards it for whatever reason, and still others simply adopt the lifestyle purely by choice. Neither of which make it right to do so.
And again, yes I know that not everybody is a Christian, so don't use that argument with me, I won't even respond to it, which is why I'm just putting my disclaimer here. These opinions are based on my own faith and if you don't like them then that's fine, but don't try to remind me that not everybody shares my beliefs, because I think I know that
Alrighty, no use debating you because i'm never going to change your mind.
Your argument is like a two legged dog with an eating disorder...weak and unbalanced.
On the other hand, if you observe a gay man looking at a naked male, you will see the gay man become sexually aroused just like a straight man looking at a woman would. However, the gay man would not be sexually aroused by looking at a naked woman.
That's nature. Pure and simple.
And then there is the lack of capacity for a gay man to fall in love with a woman as well. And it's not fair to try to force someone to play like they are in love with someone just to try to fit into society. It's not fair to the man or the woman involved. And if they do happen to have children then it's not fair to the kids as well. How could children learn about the love of a couple if they observe their parents never touching or enjoying each others company the way a couple in love does?
There is a Biblical piece of text that pertains to that as well. It's called bearing false witness. So saying you love a woman and marrying her when you really don't would seem to me to be breaking one of the 10 commandments.
LMAO, nuff said. Bring it on down now.
Damn byotch dat aint no friggn moon fool, dat be a friggn space station byotch.