bankruptcy :(

scaramoosh · November 2006

http://www.ryzom.com/news/archive/2006/11/20/important-information

PyscoJuggalo · November 2006

God dammit!

Etruscus · November 2006

I am not surprised. I went and read the thread at Ryzom official and it is still full of the rabid fanboi-ness that is so well known for. I made a post a while back; either here or at Ryzom, where I predicted the game (or the company) would be sold off in one quarter following the release of R2. I don't know how long it has been, but it's been about one quarter (actually, I think Nevrex goes by tri-mesters).

For those who wish to know, receivership is what happens when a company is attempting to either emerge from bankruptcy or is going into bankruptcy and will never get out. This doesn't mean "Nevrex is trying to avoid from going under" it means "they are already under." Their VCs have decided this is a money losing operation and they are now trying to eek out whatever they can after having sustained massive losses, I'm certain, for a few years.

The halt in new membership and paying accounts is not because "it is fair" or some ridiculous notion, it is rather a padlock. No one can get in and no one can get out. Ryzom is now a product which will be sold, or at least attempt to be sold. The player base is part of that asset and they are going to market the entire player base as though you were all paying.

Will the game Ryzom live on? I doubt it, personally, the Nevrex team has done all they can to alienate any sort of playing base beyond the acolytes of Ryzom and to ensure they will never return. Ryzom will be sold, however. That much is for certain. All of those model, all of the IP, all of the code, the hard wear, all of it... It will all get sold. Carved up, most likely, and sold to the highest bidder. I sort of hope it will get sold, so a real company can take it over and set a few things straight and then possibly the game will actually be fun to play for those of us who are not such hardcore role-players where we pretend up nearly anything, facts or no facts.

If some company is interested, by some miracle, in buying Ryzom with an eye for profit (which is why companies do business) I would expect to see massive changes shortly, because right now it is money losing and whoever it is that buys them will want to make them non-money losing, or what is normally called profitable.

It is simply amazing to me that the players (a very small number relative to most other games) challenged me on this way back when I make my leaving Ryzom post on the OB. I am not sure where they think money comes from, but if something is losing money, you can be assured, something will need to change.

MaDSaM · November 2006

The sad thing is you are probably right about most of that.

The only trouble I ever realy saw is best described as follows:

We live in a medicore world. Everything is medicore, has to be medicore to be accepted by the masses.
Everything has to be spoonfed to us humans, we don´t want to realy "do" anything anymore.
We want to be entertained, not to entertain ourselfs.
So if Ryzom is now sold to whatever bigger Company is interested in it or rather R², we will probably see
lots of medicore "contend" churned out, to attract exactly these people, who give money to the games they "play" and at the same time give money to Leveling Services, to play their game for them so they can "realy enjoy" it.

*sigh* But well, it´s sadly been inevitable.
People don´t like inovatons and a bit of work in their spare time. They like medicore easy to swallow mush.
No spice please.

But, let´s just see what goes down in December/January.

MaDSaM

Teleboas · November 2006

I tried this game during its early beta stage. Just couldn't get into it.

quakebr2 · November 2006

sad but true, we-re really losing ryzom, an excellent game, with an excellent community and an excellent staff, but things are like this, make money or die.

I hope that the new company don't change the skill based system at least

elvigy · November 2006

Originally posted by Etruscus

Will the game Ryzom live on? I doubt it, personally, the Nevrex team has done all they can to alienate any sort of playing base beyond the acolytes of Ryzom and to ensure they will never return. Ryzom will be sold, however. That much is for certain. All of those model, all of the IP, all of the code, the hard wear, all of it... It will all get sold. Carved up, most likely, and sold to the highest bidder. I sort of hope it will get sold, so a real company can take it over and set a few things straight and then possibly the game will actually be fun to play for those of us who are not such hardcore role-players where we pretend up nearly anything, facts or no facts.

If some company is interested, by some miracle, in buying Ryzom with an eye for profit (which is why companies do business) I would expect to see massive changes shortly, because right now it is money losing and whoever it is that buys them will want to make them non-money losing, or what is normally called profitable.
It is simply amazing to me that the players (a very small number relative to most other games) challenged me on this way back when I make my leaving Ryzom post on the OB. I am not sure where they think money comes from, but if something is losing money, you can be assured, something will need to change.

I don't know anything about European bankruptcy laws, so won't argue the points you made on that. However, you lost me on the claim that the Nevrax team has done all it can to alienate players and make sure they will never return. During the two months I've been subscribed, I've never seen or met a nicer group of GMs and devs.

There most assuredly is a core group of players who seem to be rabidly anti-change, which for the life of me I don't understand. The game is most definitely a lot of fun at first, but beyond the 1-2 month mark, it starts to be a bit repetitive. At least it was to me. However, any posts on the forums on recommendations for change or enhancement are met with about 30% "Never! No way, go away noob!" response, 30% "Weeelll...that might be a good idea, but let's talk about it endlessly first" and about 30% "Sounds good to me, anything that will up the subscriber numbers is good", with the remaining 10% unable to formulate a coherent thought. And the loudest voices seem to be the anti-change voices. But this is true of almost all games I've played. On the WoW boards, when I was playing it, the most common answer to a request for change or enhancement was the phrase "It's fine, learn2play". Bah.

Anyway, having said that, I will say in-game I never lacked for getting an answer from the help channel. Without fail, everyone was nice. And I reiterate that the Nevrax team was great.

I'm actually still subscribed, but haven't played for about 3-4 weeks because, well, I can't find anything interesting to do at my level. I am a healer/crafter type (OK, let's just say carebear) and finding groups can be a bit difficult at my low level. And harvesting materials is dangerous because there are no safe spots. You can and will be attacked by mobs almost everywhere. It is extremely difficult to travel without higher level protection (though you will of course hear the inevitable "I walked all the way around the world at level 1" responses if you mention this on the boards). And even on the occassions where I found a person to group with, I didn't feel like I was doing anything but grinding. We found a relatively safe spot and pulled and slaughtered mobs to get xp.

As for you being banned from their forums, that is odd. I've seen some pretty rough reviews there that have not resulted in bannings.

I hope this game survives, I really do. But it will take some changes to keep players interested past the first few weeks of play. And those changes will come despite some serious protesting from a vocal minority of the current playerbase.

daeandor · November 2006

Probably one of the best mmorpgs to go completely under the radar of most players. Sadly, it lacked in the kind of content that keeps players which resulted in it's lacking the player numbers. No matter how good the game's mechanics and environment is, without players and spoon fed content, it was destined to lose.

Etruscus · November 2006

I meant more this

[quote]The game is most definitely a lot of fun at first, but beyond the 1-2
month mark, it starts to be a bit repetitive. At least it was to me.[/quote]

then the politness of the staff, who were always great. I actually found the community to not be as great as people have claimed. They are great so long as you don't make waves and are willing to RP, but if you want to play the game your own way (ironic, considering this is what the RPers are always claiming in other games) you are suddenly a pariah. I always just wanted to be a forager and sell stuff in Ryzom. I don't want to talk like someone from a bad Shakespearean knockoff with one cliche after another (for the King!, for Honor!, For Wealth!, for.... give me a break).

I will never forget when I first met Jelathnia(sp), she said to me "I've never met someone who could write in full sentences and wasn't interested in RP". I didn't bother having a discusion about it and I'm fairly certain she didn't realize it, but the arrogance and rudnesse of that remark is astounding and that is mostly what I found.

When you voiced an opinion the answer was always the same, you can just RP your way out of any problems. This is the attitude that Nevrex had with their game. If they just imagine it will be profitable, it will just become profitable.

I've been mostly playing Eve since I left Ryzom and I have to say, there is far more RP in Eve then there is in Ryzom anyway and no one is forced to. Your charector is who you are and how you want to play it and there is a ton of content (IE other players) to support it.

elvigy · November 2006

I agree on the whole RP thing. It's almost a case of political correctness run amok. I'm not sure when or how RP came to mean talking like an Arthurian knight for so many gamers or an excuse to gank low-level players for others.

"I'm an evil character, so methinks you must be my next victim! Yaaarr!"

"Verily, kind sirrah, I am but in my 10th season, whereas you are obviously experienced beyond my ken, perhaps even unto your 60th season or thereabouts. Please to stay your hand!"

Evil RP does not mean killing anyone/everything in your path, and Good aligned RP does not mean speaking in the modern idea of what Middle English sounded like. I've always considered myself a "background RP" type person, meaning I create an idea in my head of who my character is, and try to act that way in game without speaking or courtseying or what have you in some bizarre manner but just live up to the idea I have of who my character is. So, for example, my healer character might run across another player who just died. I'll stop and rez them for free, and do it without any silly "May the Gods be with you" junk. A simple "Good luck" as I run off is usually all I'll say. On the other hand, my bad guys (like my up and coming pirate in EVE) will assess the situation with an eye to his own benefit. If helping you in some way might increase my fame or fortune, I'll do it. If it won't, then I may just shoot you down and steal your stuff, again without resorting to silly banter as above.

My point being, I guess, that RP is possible without being a silly a*s about it.

GRIMACHU · November 2006

Originally posted by Etruscus
I've been mostly playing Eve since I left Ryzom and I have to say, there is far more RP in Eve then there is in Ryzom anyway and no one is forced to. Your charector is who you are and how you want to play it and there is a ton of content (IE other players) to support it.

That's not RP.

And they were right, it is unusual to find literate players who don't want to RP.

Mind you, I think most CRPG players wouldn't know roleplay if it shoved a bag of d20's up their arse.

GRIMACHU · November 2006

I don't know anything about European bankruptcy laws, so won't argue the points you made on that. However, you lost me on the claim that the Nevrax team has done all it can to alienate players and make sure they will never return. During the two months I've been subscribed, I've never seen or met a nicer group of GMs and devs.

There most assuredly is a core group of players who seem to be rabidly anti-change, which for the life of me I don't understand. The game is most definitely a lot of fun at first, but beyond the 1-2 month mark, it starts to be a bit repetitive. At least it was to me. However, any posts on the forums on recommendations for change or enhancement are met with about 30% "Never! No way, go away noob!" response, 30% "Weeelll...that might be a good idea, but let's talk about it endlessly first" and about 30% "Sounds good to me, anything that will up the subscriber numbers is good", with the remaining 10% unable to formulate a coherent thought. And the loudest voices seem to be the anti-change voices. But this is true of almost all games I've played. On the WoW boards, when I was playing it, the most common answer to a request for change or enhancement was the phrase "It's fine, learn2play". Bah.

The problem is that a lot of people coming to Ryzom basically make demands that would turn it into yet another cookie cutter MMO. They want the features of their other MMOs they've played before which would drown at the game's uniqueness. Things like Ryzom Ring are much more 'Ryzomy' than adding any number of pointless minigames like fishing, which some people seem to obsess over.

It isn't a demand for stasis, it is a demand for staying unique.

Zuba · November 2006

this is a part of life we all must accept.

so if they knew they were going into the red, why didnt they do a advertising system instead? ok it would of annoyed some people, they would of got money from the ad companies so ryzom can post the adverts to many ppl out there. at the very least it could of slowed down the fanancial aspect for a bit albiet still 'going under'.

but in a good way they have experience on this mess and how to avoid it further, i mean they saw where the problem was so the next game they release by this time a new company name will come up, so its not all doom and gloom. but unfortunatly they might have to sell ryzom and disband for a while (3 months at the least).

and relating to another thread about pvp and how bad it is, they should of used a more conventional means.

vqly · November 2006

Etruscus, I don't see the rapid fanboyness you're talking about in that thread. Are you sure you're not being a rapid hateboy? :P

Sad to see this development. But I hope Nevrax know that they at least make a mark in the mmorpg industry, which is tremendeously tough to break into. Hell, even if they make a completely different game that's more WoW like but with the same enginge of seasons, weather, mobs AI and migrations, it would be a more next-gen game than the current crop.

I hope they keep developing NeL (and make it less bug-ridden/cleaner), even if it's by the Open Source community, and not by Nevrax.

Tyilin · November 2006

Just to throw in a thought (ahh and i dont agree with a company doing this but its not unheard of)

AFAIK things were looking much better for Nevrax, they had just moved their servers with jolt and subscriptions are up, sure R2 wasnt as big as they had hoped but still pulled more players in, so all-in-all things were getting better.

The main fiscal problem that Nevrax had was creditors etc. Why wouldnt Nevrax claim 'bankrupt' (thus removing the creditors from them) and starting again with a new name'd company. In doing so they start again free from the debt that they owed the creditors. on the down side their credit rating would be pretty poor.

Just a thought

Etruscus · November 2006

Originally posted by Tyilin

Just to throw in a thought (ahh and i dont agree with a company doing this but its not unheard of)
AFAIK things were looking much better for Nevrax, they had just moved their servers with jolt and subscriptions are up, sure R2 wasnt as big as they had hoped but still pulled more players in, so all-in-all things were getting better.
The main fiscal problem that Nevrax had was creditors etc. Why wouldnt Nevrax claim 'bankrupt' (thus removing the creditors from them) and starting again with a new name'd company. In doing so they start again free from the debt that they owed the creditors. on the down side their credit rating would be pretty poor.

Just a thought

For one, Nevrex as a firm doesn't have as much say in what it does as, say, you might as a consumer. They are run by a board and on that board sits (at least) 2-4 VCs who have all invested heavily in the company. In addition, they have taken out loans, it seems, or possibly one or all of the VCs have filled injuctions against Nevrex to collect what they can.

Furthermore, they already have declared bankruptcy. The French system is not common law, like what we are used to here in the US and the UK, so their system of bankruptcy may be different, that said, what they seem to be doing with Ryzom is a commonlaw practice. Or rather, that the commonlaw recognizes that the lienholders have some claim to the assets of that debtors, even if they have not been explicitly underwritten.

To address the RP vs real RP topic. This is typically the same response I would get in game from other long time Ryzom players. My notion of roleplay is much more like that of the person who replied to me. The idea that there is one true and proper form of RP is ridiculous and arrogant.

shezomb · November 2006

Sorry to hear you met some wierd Rpers, but yes, some are pretty harcore, as someone said, I too decide for a background of my character and play that way, none of the mainstream fancytalk, maybe I'll throw in a y'all here or a greetings there but only to make it stand out that I'm actually a RPer, as many get quite confuzed if things are said IC and OOC and blah blah, so I just stick to my character and none of the other foobar ^^

If you'd gotten in a good guild, you'd proppably have felt like you had a point to your gaming, I really enjoyed being in a small guild, it makes everyone feel usefull in the struggle to keep the guildhall stocked and so on

as to the end of Nevraw, we'll see if it's for better or worse, I think
it can go both ways, I have my worries, and a few hopes

*hugs from lil me* (one of those little things I do)

Zuba · November 2006

what does rp mean these days, some people play for fun most people take it way too seriously and consequently loosing respect

. but back to the topic point.

fireball-hh · November 2006

directly from official site http://www.ryzom.com/news?set_language=en:

Tuesday,21 November , 2006 at 18:20 UTC

Nevrax : The latest update on the ongoing situation by Marjo

To keep you in the loop with what is happening in Paris here is the latest.

The situation here as you know is that Nevrax as a corporate entity will probably cease to exist in a few weeks. It is not up to Nevrax to decide the exact date, which is why we can't be more specific right now. Discussions are ongoing with various creditors so you may see "news" stories appearing here and there about Nevrax going under, but you will still hear all the facts here first.

In the meantime, Ryzom will continue to run and evolve. Right now we are happy that several companies and/or individuals are actively engaged in negotiations to take over Ryzom. Again we can't tell you more at this moment as these negotiations have to be carried out privately.

We've opened a thread in the account support section to answer your concerns regarding your account. Click here for more information.

--------------------------------------------------------

greetz

Fire

Torotoro · November 2006

Ryzom is in good shape now.
Nevrax makes money at least since 2 or 3 months.

But huge amount of money have been injected into the game since 5 years (more than 7 millions dollars). Even if Ryzom gain money now, it' will NEVER compare to the amount of money it should do to content the investors.
So, investors sell it now to gain back a lot more money thant the game can do on it's own the next years.

It's a good deal for the next company which will take care of Ryzom. Because the game is profitable now without the debt attached to it.

vqly · November 2006

Yeah, I guess that make sense. The only real losers are Nevrax investors I suppose, unless they can make back enough money from selling to cover their losses.

In fantasy news, I hope CPP goble up the engine (not NeL, which is Free, but the commercial one with all the models) and use it to add planetory exploration to EVE

Neas · November 2006

Ryzoms been going under since beta...

I predicted it would die after a year... i was wrong instead of dying
some french law 'protected' it... i guess the protection ran out and
they were still making a loss after sacking alot of the original
development team and president of Nevrax.

This game promised alot during beta and it never delivered, its
development was slow and i was one of the original Focus Beta testers
testing the 'STORY'.... yes you heard me they wanted to develop
story... however nevrax's attempt at this was the stupid missions to
collect 50+ X and 60+ Y and 70+ Z.... They never developed a
story for this game... not out of wanting it to be aimed at Roleplayers
(sorry to break your fantasy guys) but because they didn't even think
about adding story until 1 month before release!!.

Dare... to challenge me on that one cause i was asked to test the new story implementation....

So when it proved too hard to think of story/settings and content they
bypassed it by making the encylopedia 3 months after release... and
modelled it at Hardcore RP.

Their Business model didn't work from day one and its been on a
downward spiral ever since... and No... the servers have at maximum 1k
Players in them... thats all the servers can handle... trust me.

It may seem like a big world but its smalll but to get around this they
restrict your movement by adding super hard mobs so you can't wander
alot.

The game has loads of bodges in it and I can't say im surprised about
this. The game will probably go on indefinately... that was the
idea of Ryzom Ring... the developers (those that were left from the
initial Bankcruptcy protection chop) tried to give development to hands
of players and it may help their creation survive. Wise move if
you ask me if a game is going under.

And yea.. flame away... but I'm right, your wrong... I knew this would
happen and i told them this ages ago. Ryzom has never had a huge
fanbase and has always had trouble keeping people/gaining people.
And its got nothing to do with WoW or other Mmorpgs its to do with the
entire lack of content and 'fun' and variablity in the game. A
common excuse i hear from fanbois is "Learn to RP, your not a hardcore
RP!!"... who made you chief of the army?. A game has to be
profitable, a game should allow a player DO as much as tjhey can... if
they are restricted to only RP then thats lowering your player base and
lowering your profit.

And finally... the fanbase all acts like Ryzom was intended to be for
Roleplayers..... it wasn't it was intended to be the next big thing
like WoW and appeal to alot of people. It did during beta it had
4-5k+ beta testers over the period... but 95% of those left because the
game just didn't deliver.

Face it Ryzom never had enough development from the get go back when
the original Publisher wanadoo split ways with Ryzom.... thats when it
was troubled times. It was a brilliant concept, it coulda
rivalled WoW. But it didn't have enough Financial/Technical
Backing to make it a success (example: the 2d fundamental Engine... not
allowing jumping.... with Monsters Attacking from 100m above
you). Nevrax made an engine and wished to demonstrate its
potential, it had high dreams but didn't have the team. If
Blizzard, Bethseda had made Ryzom i think it woulda been the best
mmorpg out there. The engine woulda been great, there'd been
story and balancing and much more content... it woulda been great.

GRIMACHU · November 2006

Ah, a 'Deep Throat'. Alas these usually overplay what they 'know'.

Zuba · November 2006

looks like someone hated ryzom and they knew it. instead of giving the game a good send off he gave it a bad prediction although it worked you shouldnt count your chickens yet, there are companies out there wanted to buy ryzom, so not all is lost.

the typical hate theroy usually turns out to hit you in the face in the end... watch this space

Neas · November 2006

Originally posted by Zuba
looks like
someone hated ryzom and they knew it. instead of giving the game a good
send off he gave it a bad prediction although it worked you shouldnt
count your chickens yet, there are companies out there wanted to buy
ryzom, so not all is lost.

the typical hate theroy usually turns out to hit you in the face in the end... watch this space

Most
likely the 'company' who will buy ryzom will be ex-Nevrax creating a
new PLC company that isnt millions of pounds in debt....

Anarchy online did it i believe.

I dont hate ryzom. I hate the community.... in a weird way.
You guys are the most stubborn group i've ever seen. You try and
say Black is White and Up is Down.... and bury your heads in the
sands... its fanboi devotion gone to another level.

So i tease you guys here and there because i love reading the illogical replies i get when you come defending 'your' game.

Zuba · November 2006

by all means, but just remember the same will happen to you... not right now but soon.

as for illogical i dont care what country your from as im concerned and logic says, 'you will never know' usualy talking illogically like saying a bag of sand cant do anything. logically your wrong you if you dropped it on someone then you will know. same hold true for ryzom the company might be going under but it can be taken care of and back on making people happy.

so as for logic, i think the game will continue the people of nevrax will sell the game to keep the players happy meanwhile the company that bought the game will roll out stuff to make the game better and more adverts.

illogically, well what you pointed out.

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bankruptcy :(

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Tuesday,21 November , 2006 at 18:20 UTC

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bankruptcy :(

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Tuesday,21 November , 2006 at 18:20 UTC