Haha l2 always on the news, there must be like 199 very happy private servers with the extintion of l2extreme and they where popular becouse of high rates and payed enchants ... u dont pay to play in extreme but once ur in there u will pay for +25 enchants titanium armor etc ...
Originally posted by Rattrap I shortly tried l2extreme. Few months ago...No , they didnt charge anything. And they had pretty completely working version of L2 , complete with many players and everything.Anyway no wonder they closed it. It was starting to be more popular than the L2 itself.But really, who in their right minds want to play on private servers?!MMO is all about -> persistance,comunity and serviceYou can not have any of this on private serversThey are some lame man game trial at best
Well L2's normal servers at normal leveling speed = the longest grind in a mmo ever.
l2extreme had faster leveling servers....thats how my friend got me interested. Because that was one of my biggest issues with the game, the amount of time it would have taken to reach max lvl.
There aren't 199 happy private servers because all the good ones closed down due to the owners being afraid of federal law. The only private servers really open right now are those that charged no money for anything (the crappy l2j ones) and the servers located in places like Romania and Brazil.
I think that the fbi seize of the l2x server is ridiculous.... i have played l2x for quite awhile... and i really enjoyed it..great job and good luck shmeee!!!!!! i belive that they want to make an example of them just as metallica did napster... pathetic...c'mon.. you have to pay how much money to a local video game store (in which ncsoft is reciving a good share of royalties from!) like many posts said all the real server is about is grinding..... its a grind grind its a grind grind!(please dont let soul coughing find out i posted lyrics to their song... i may get siezed by the fbi too!!!) who wants to waste countless hours and hard earned dollars to kill repeat kill repeat for months/years on end before you can even begin to get anywhere... i like the idea that the game can be played for a very long time... but think about how much you have to pay besides the initial cash amount for the game... what $12 a month x 12 months... thats $144 a year to play a stupid game.. what happened to good ole atari where you just put in a game and could have fun without paying anything but a few joy filled hours of your time...i understand that ncsoft need money to fund their server matinence and updates and future games.. but they have a lot of great games they make a killin off of..why dont they take a good idea and take donations too instead of charging every moth or a years price for like $30-$50? and another thing.. private servers as previously mentioned are bot free!!! makes game play more involved and you can actualy feel you can accomplish something...ive almost maxed out on l2x and i still play it.... ncsoft is just mad becuase more people enjoy the feeling of acomplishment more than the feeling of getting reamed every month for a cut of someones paycheck to sit around with their free time and get fat.. i belive that that should be a free luxury!
just like the whole napster thing... you can stop one or two leaks... but you cant stop them all... if they didnt want to get pirated then why the hell didnt they do something like ffxi did with their server.. you have to connect to another program and get routed to their server from there... this country is based on scandols and what does one video game matter in the midst of presidential affairs...9/11...and george bush's recount... i think the fbi should be out spending more time finding bin laden than messing with the poor people who cant afford to play a great game every month... the credit card deprived... and the grind sick true gamers... nc soft should just be glad that people know the name and play their game .... just settle it like this.... all private servers shoudl pay some sort of royalties to the particular gaming company in order to run their own private server... let the private servers get their donations... (an indirect form of getting money... its totally optional..their own creations....) and just give a share to the company. im not saying let them have the exact copyrighted files.. but allow them to create their own off the basis of the idea... like the reverse java.... ok last comment... i think nc soft should be more worried about how people are gonna get sick of paying to grind and come up with a better solution to make people pay them every month.....
Originally posted by CHILDOFKORN I think that the fbi seize of the l2x server is ridiculous.... i have played l2x for quite awhile... and i really enjoyed it..great job and good luck shmeee!!!!!! i belive that they want to make an example of them just as metallica did napster... pathetic...c'mon.. you have to pay how much money to a local video game store (in which ncsoft is reciving a good share of royalties from!) like many posts said all the real server is about is grinding..... its a grind grind its a grind grind!(please dont let soul coughing find out i posted lyrics to their song... i may get siezed by the fbi too!!!) who wants to waste countless hours and hard earned dollars to kill repeat kill repeat for months/years on end before you can even begin to get anywhere... i like the idea that the game can be played for a very long time... but think about how much you have to pay besides the initial cash amount for the game... what $12 a month x 12 months... thats $144 a year to play a stupid game.. what happened to good ole atari where you just put in a game and could have fun without paying anything but a few joy filled hours of your time...i understand that ncsoft need money to fund their server matinence and updates and future games.. but they have a lot of great games they make a killin off of..why dont they take a good idea and take donations too instead of charging every moth or a years price for like $30-$50? and another thing.. private servers as previously mentioned are bot free!!! makes game play more involved and you can actualy feel you can accomplish something...ive almost maxed out on l2x and i still play it.... ncsoft is just mad becuase more people enjoy the feeling of acomplishment more than the feeling of getting reamed every month for a cut of someones paycheck to sit around with their free time and get fat.. i belive that that should be a free luxury! just like the whole napster thing... you can stop one or two leaks... but you cant stop them all... if they didnt want to get pirated then why the hell didnt they do something like ffxi did with their server.. you have to connect to another program and get routed to their server from there... this country is based on scandols and what does one video game matter in the midst of presidential affairs...9/11...and george bush's recount... i think the fbi should be out spending more time finding bin laden than messing with the poor people who cant afford to play a great game every month... the credit card deprived... and the grind sick true gamers... nc soft should just be glad that people know the name and play their game .... just settle it like this.... all private servers shoudl pay some sort of royalties to the particular gaming company in order to run their own private server... let the private servers get their donations... (an indirect form of getting money... its totally optional..their own creations....) and just give a share to the company. im not saying let them have the exact copyrighted files.. but allow them to create their own off the basis of the idea... like the reverse java.... ok last comment... i think nc soft should be more worried about how people are gonna get sick of paying to grind and come up with a better solution to make people pay them every month.....
Your post provokes me.
Yes, it's ok to steal a product if it sucks because then you wouldn't pay for it anyway. It's also ok to steal if the product is awesome, because then you have a human right to enjoy it. Right? Yes, it's pointless to fight piracy because it will always be there. We should stop fighting crime and terrorism as well because we can never fully defeat it. Give me a break.
The "age of games where you could just put the games into your console and enjoy a few hours of it" is still here, smartass. There are more of those games than mmorpg's.
Look, if you don't like their payment model or the grind, you don't play the game. It's not much more complicated than that.
How was napster *not* hurting the music industry? Don't give me the "good advertising" crap. I think I've met one guy ever who actually bought a cd after he downloaded it.
I made a crapload of money off L2 official files, l2 extreme was up even 2 years ago when i started,. the guy must be rolling in dough.. i made a crapload off just donations. it wasn't worth the effort though. it took 12 hours a day of managing to keep everything smooth back then hehe.
yea it was bound to happen, almost every L2 official illegal server gets shut down, i got out before getting caught myself :P
When L2 paradise first updated to the chronicle 4 leaked files I remember their web tool displaying over 4000 people online.... the server was absolutely packed. They had also introduced a new method of bot detection which nobody had cracked yet so every single person I saw was real.
It was exciting, fun, reminded me of beta which was awesome and besides some flaws in the game design which were retardedly introduced by NCSoft in chronicle 4 (ty for cancel skills and the necromancer) it showed how great of an MMORPG L2 really is and was far higher quality than the retail servers.
Of course these things don't mean we are allowed to steal from NCSoft but if you had played retail you would probably know, NCSoft are thieves themselves. I'm 100% positive they used to selectively ban people that threatened their profits (legit players botting), whilst allowing adena farmers bots to roam around freely at no risk then creating a world where one can't survive or compete without purchasing adena from a 3rd party seller forcing a monopoly of profits from those who break the EULA to farm gold for real life cash and those who break it to afford the largely inflated in game prices.
It would make sense for NCSoft to change the game so that there would be less farmers, they do not because it will dig into their pockets.
Again I would like to say L2 is unplayable without ebaying now, basic mats cost ridiculous prices that are impossible to meet and NCsoft do NOT combat this except with banning some bots which of course they make more money when those that are banned buy new accounts and bot/farm for another year.
I've spent over $500 on Lineage 2 be it monthly fees or buying adena (without ebaying you can't even level up now because crafting so screwed) then started playing on private servers and having way more fun. Was finally getting my money back and bam it was as you said, wrongfully taken away.
Any post on the official forums about bots is instantly locked / deleted because they don't want to ban bots (permanently) but they also don't want people to leave when they read about bots. Instead they let farmers bots make a huge profit so when they are banned they'll definately return.
Originally posted by makavel1 I've spent over $500 on Lineage 2 be it monthly fees or buying adena (without ebaying you can't even level up now because crafting so screwed) then started playing on private servers and having way more fun. Was finally getting my money back and bam it was as you said, wrongfully taken away.
Any post on the official forums about bots is instantly locked / deleted because they don't want to ban bots (permanently) but they also don't want people to leave when they read about bots. Instead they let farmers bots make a huge profit so when they are banned they'll definately return.
Me and my friend have played L2 for 2 years on and off, we never ebayed anything, and have progressed just fine. I have an a-grade weapon with an SA and she's a noblesse working on her third subclass. We both earned most of our money by playing the market and raiding with our clan. Levelling now is easier than ever. You get free temporary weapons from class changes. You get free starter buffs. You can trade weapons with the npc. You get a full set of top D-grade armor by joining an academy. In interlude you can rent weapons. It's by far not harder "now".
There is a *sticky* on the official boards about bots. Any threads you make about it are deleted because you are meant to post in this thread.
Originally posted by M1sf1t Most private servers are a direct result of grindage inspired gameplay and bored players looking for a new breath of fresh air. Maybe dev's should take notice as to why these servers are so succesful and adjust their tactics so as to draw those players back into the fold.
amen.
maybe we should put nazis in jail that want to make people play boring games where devs can't be bothered to IMPROVE upon anything but their LIMITED "vision". yes, nazis in jail, i like that. lord knows we can't have private servers where people IMPROVE upon crap games. what are they thinking???
could we please get correspondent writers and moderators, on the eve forum at mmorpg.com, who are well-versed on eve-online and aren't just passersby pushing buttons? pretty please?
Originally posted by Faur Originally posted by makavel1 I've spent over $500 on Lineage 2 be it monthly fees or buying adena (without ebaying you can't even level up now because crafting so screwed) then started playing on private servers and having way more fun. Was finally getting my money back and bam it was as you said, wrongfully taken away.
Any post on the official forums about bots is instantly locked / deleted because they don't want to ban bots (permanently) but they also don't want people to leave when they read about bots. Instead they let farmers bots make a huge profit so when they are banned they'll definately return.
Me and my friend have played L2 for 2 years on and off, we never ebayed anything, and have progressed just fine. I have an a-grade weapon with an SA and she's a noblesse working on her third subclass. We both earned most of our money by playing the market and raiding with our clan. Levelling now is easier than ever. You get free temporary weapons from class changes. You get free starter buffs. You can trade weapons with the npc. You get a full set of top D-grade armor by joining an academy. In interlude you can rent weapons. It's by far not harder "now".
There is a *sticky* on the official boards about bots. Any threads you make about it are deleted because you are meant to post in this thread.
I'm aware of the sticky and I'm also aware that admins never pay attention too it, it's the rug they sweep their problems under. Do you know of Haplex? It is a hack created by greeks that was supposedly fixed a year ago and any thread regarding people that are seen using it is deleted the moment its seen by an admin. Not locked, it's actually deleted because they never fixed it and don't want people to know.
The other thing, last time I played retail (rerolled from January to April) I was so bored because there was nobody to party with, ever. We took Gludio castle with 9 people because only 3 people were defending... compare this to a private server siege. PvP outside the arena is a rarity on retail now because nobody is a real player, they are just bots. On a private server you can pvp non-stop for hours.
Did you know korea has a relaxed server with high rates but limited amount of xp u can gain daily? Why doesn't NCNA do this instead of crappy Franz server? I'll tell you why, because everyone would join it because u wouldn't need bots to play on it. Without bots they will be lose profit, again it's all a conspiracy.
One final thing, you said you never ebayed and neither did your friend to progress ok, well if this was true and it's really not so bad then why is there such a huge problem with bots?
Please don't get me wrong, I've played l2 for years now and it's long been my favourite game but I really dislike NCSoft for their poor administration for $20 a month compared to some of the excellent administration of private servers which survive on donations.
I am a bit naive on this subject. Why do people care if there are private servers for these online games?
To my understanding you buy the game, then you buy a subscription which allows you to play a game on the companies servers with the companies support?
either way you still bought the game.
a private server is just another choice in how you want to play the game. Taking choices away from people does not sound like a good idea.
Well company x is losing y amount of money from subscription loss ......... ok company x needs to get thier sh!t together and figure out why a couple guys on low budget servers with littleman power is kicking thier @ss.
i also do not think company x has the right to demand funds from other companies service. these other low budget companies we will call them are actually helping sell the game for the company x ......... only thing i could see would be a lisencing fee for using thier core game, but this would be gouged im sure.
I see no fualt in letting other parties provide service for a product if they wish, they are not reselling the game, just a service for that game.
Just amazing, I thought that for a biggest company like NCsoft catching a bunch of people mainting a private server it was barely impossible, but now that I see this, I think that "pirates" MUST think it twice before opening a illegal server.
THE GRIND IS! WHY I DONT PLAY THE GAME...AND THE STUPID BOTS...I THINK THEIR ARE ENOUGH NPC'S IN THE GAME, WE DONT NED BOTS ILLEGALY MAKING MONEY DIRECTLY FROM THE REAL SERVER... HMMMMM WHY DONT NC SOFT DO SOMETHING ABOUT THAT....AS I PRIEVIOUSLY MENTIONED... THIS WHOLE CONTRY IS BASED ON SCANDOLS...I THINK INSTEAD OF GOIN AFTER THE PRIVATE SERVERS.. THEY SHOULD COLLABORATE ON HOW TO MAKE THE REAL SERVER BETTER...IE..NEW EVENTS...SOME ARE REALLY GREAT IVE SEEN ON PRIVATE SERVERS...GAMBLEING I EVEN SEEN ON ONE SERVER.... KINDA FUN!...BETTER PVP!! THATS WHAT GOT ME HOOKED TO L2X PVP! ITS POINTLESS TO PVP ON THE REAL SERVER UNLESS YOU PLAY FOR OVER A YEAR EVERYDAY STRAIGHT... PEOPLE HAVE REAL LIVES... PLAYING UNTILL THEIR BEDTIMES THE 12 YR OLD POPULATION ON THE SERVER MAY BE OK... BUT SOME OF US HAVE A JOB... A FAMILY...AND GOD SAY IT.. ACTUAL FRIENDS!!WHY WOULD I WANT TO PAY A MONTHLY FEE TO KEEP PLAYING A GAME I CAN ONLY PLAY ON FREE TIME?? MAEEY 3 TIMES A WEEK? I THINK NCSOFT SHOULD HELP SUPPORT THE PRIVATE SERVERS!! IN LUE.. GATHER GAMING IDEAS... HAVE A POLL FOR WHAT THE PEOPLE WANT TO SEE IN THE REAL SERVER AND ADD IT TO THE GAME!! THEIRS A WHOLE DIFFERENT APPROACH TO THIS... THEYRE JUST TOO BLIND TO SEE IT... THEY NEED TO HIRE SCHMEEE ON THE NCSOFT CREW AND GET HIS IDEAS!(HA!!! YEAH RIGHT SCHMEEE!) AND AS FOR THE REPLY TO MY NAPSTER COMMENT... I DOWNLOAD MUSIC... I BUY CD'S...THEY STILL MAKE MONEY OFF ME... I LIKE TO SAMPLE A CD BEFORE I GO WASTE $12-$20 ON IT... AND PLUS I GO TO CONCERTS.. BUY T-SHIRTS.. I THINIK THEY MAKE WAY MORE MONEY OFF THAT.. AND PLUS HALF THE BANDS OUT THERE SAY PLEASE DOWNLOAD OUR MUSIC... YOU EVER SEEN THE VIDEO FOR YA'LL WANT A SINGLE BY KORN?? YOU SHOULD CHECK IT OUT!! ONE GROUP WHO DONT GIVE A FUCK IF YOU DOWNLOAD THEIR STUFF... AND THEY ARE ONE OF THE BIGGEST BANDS IN HISTORY!!! REAL PEOPLE WHO WANT PEOPLE TO FEEL THEIR MUSIC... NOW METALLICA WHOS TURNED PREP AND WANTS MORE MONEY TO ADD TO THEIR $100000000000000000 BANK ACCOUNT FROM THE LOWER CLASS OF SOCIETY.....WHEN THAT WHOLE SITUATION HAPPENED... I GOT ANOTHER P2P ENGINE... AND DOWNLOADED EVERY METALLICA SONG I COULD POSSIBLY FIND!!! NOT TO LISTEN TO THEM.. BUT TO SPEAK MY VOICE ON OUR COUNTRIES DIMINISHING FREEDOMS.... MUSIC IS FREE!! AND PAY TO PLAY... GOOD IDEA...BUT MAKE A GOOD GAME... ID RATHER PAY TO PLAY TRICKSTER THAN L2!!! AND THATS BAAAAAADDDD!!!
Yes, it's ok to steal a product if it sucks because then you wouldn't pay for it anyway. It's also ok to steal if the product is awesome, because then you have a human right to enjoy it. Right? Yes, it's pointless to fight piracy because it will always be there. We should stop fighting crime and terrorism as well because we can never fully defeat it. Give me a break.
did those FBI guys help catch bin laden? oh wait, those are the ones that kept ignoring warnings about stuff that led up to 911, right? maybe they were too busy messing around trying to shut down private game servers...
glad people like you are out there to give your support to federal agencies being sure to get rid of the evil private servers of games.
your comparing a private server to terrorism should provoke most anyone.
could we please get correspondent writers and moderators, on the eve forum at mmorpg.com, who are well-versed on eve-online and aren't just passersby pushing buttons? pretty please?
That wasn't my point. If you read the post, you'd see that it was implying it's pointless to fight piracy because you can never defeat it. I was using a sarcastic example as to why this is a stupid way of thinking.
Originally posted by lillin
I see no fualt in letting other parties provide service for a product if they wish, they are not reselling the game, just a service for that game.
However in games like L2, your monthly fee goes to the development of expansion packs and new content. L2 currently has 5 free expansions released with 7 to go. By playing on private servers, you are taking advantage of these expansions without paying the fee to fund them.
To my understanding you buy the game, then you buy a subscription which allows you to play a game on the companies servers with the companies support?
either way you still bought the game.
a private server is just another choice in how you want to play the game.
Well company x is losing y amount of money from subscription loss ......... ok company x needs to get thier sh!t together and figure out why a couple guys on low budget servers with littleman power is kicking thier @ss.
Originally posted by Jimmy_Scythe lillin wrote:To my understanding you buy the game, then you buy a subscription which allows you to play a game on the companies servers with the companies support?either way you still bought the game.a private server is just another choice in how you want to play the game. Well company x is losing y amount of money from subscription loss ......... ok company x needs to get thier sh!t together and figure out why a couple guys on low budget servers with littleman power is kicking thier @ss.amen
That still doesn't justify the expansions I mentioned above.
You also don't have to "buy the game" to play on private servers. You can download lineage 2 + chronicle 1 + chronicle 2 + chronicle 3 + chronicle 4 + chronicle 5 for absolutely free without even having an account.
That still doesn't justify the expansions I mentioned above.
The piracy debate has gone on for years and years with the same points being made over and over ad nauseum. Despite widespread piracy, most media still turn a healthy profit. More than healthy when you consider that TV, movies and games are pulling in more money than they ever have before. MMOs are a special case however....
The client may cost money, or it may be free. The money you spend is for access to a service. If someone else is offering that same access for free....
Let me put it to you this way. If you buy a cable box, does that mean that you can only use that cable box to access one cable company? If you actually own the box, you should be able to migrate to another service and still use the box. Most cable companies get around this by making you rent the box. Am I buying WoW for $50, or is it just an activation fee for a rental? If so, why isn't there a contract commitment as there is with cell phones, satellite and cable providers?
The real problem occurs when more people are migrating to another (free) service. Do the developers analyze what that service is doing differently? Do they try to change their own service to match or exceed the competing service? Why should they? They can simply shut down anyone that does it better than they do. UO has actually be smart about the private server issue by looking at the developments in free shards and integrating them into the OSI servers. NCSoft doesn't seem to care. Rather than deal with the game's flaws, they simply build on them and then shut down the free servers. Bad business all the way around if you ask me.
Closing a popular private server here and there isn't going to end the problem. Making a better game probably won't end it either. But at least you have a better chance with a better game than you would by burying your head in the sand.
BTW, Those expansions are mostly art and database updates. They take a long time to produce, but still only a fraction of the time and manpower it took to put the initial game together.
Most people go to private servers because of the increased xp/gold rates, no fee, and fewer restrictions (infinite buffs without needing buffers, no need for crafters as you can buy everything in the npc shops, etc).
If you introduced any of these elements to the official servers, I'm sure it would be super popular for a little while, but I doubt it would have the longevity that L2 is going for.
I dunno about the expansions being mostly art updates. Some stuff that weren't at launch but was or is going to be added in expansions are the seven signs (only 3 signs are currently ingame, more to come later) including the festivals/catacombs/necropoli, cross-server wars, aerial and naval battles, clan reputation system, subclasses, olympiad, noblesse/hero, and duel system.
I'm not going to say that L2 is the perfect game, it does have it's share of problems. I just disagree with this "they should let us play on private servers because it sucks anyway/is too expensive/private servers are better" mentality.
Originally posted by Faur That wasn't my point. If you read the post, you'd see that it was implying it's pointless to fight piracy because you can never defeat it. I was using a sarcastic example as to why this is a stupid way of thinking.
Originally posted by lillin I see no fualt in letting other parties provide service for a product if they wish, they are not reselling the game, just a service for that game.
However in games like L2, your monthly fee goes to the development of expansion packs and new content. L2 currently has 5 free expansions released with 7 to go. By playing on private servers, you are taking advantage of these expansions without paying the fee to fund them. first terrorism, now you're paying/funding FREE expansions... BRILLIANT!
edited: just so no one misunderstands... if you pay for something, that means it's not free.
could we please get correspondent writers and moderators, on the eve forum at mmorpg.com, who are well-versed on eve-online and aren't just passersby pushing buttons? pretty please?
Originally posted by nethaniah There aren't 199 happy private servers because all the good ones closed down due to the owners being afraid of federal law. The only private servers really open right now are those that charged no money for anything (the crappy l2j ones) and the servers located in places like Romania and Brazil.
Free private servers are against federal law too.
You are allowing people to access a copywrighted game system for free or without paid for clients which damages the copywright owners income stream.
I have to say, despite the law, I am morally O.K. with private servers. I think forcin people to hire the server from you after you have already paid £30 for the client software is tantamount to being a rip off. I don't mind paying top whack for a quality server well maintained and well supported, but I object to being forced to or my legally paid for software not working.
Banning private servers is not in the intrest of the end user, only the producer.
Originally posted by damian7 Originally posted by Faur That wasn't my point. If you read the post, you'd see that it was implying it's pointless to fight piracy because you can never defeat it. I was using a sarcastic example as to why this is a stupid way of thinking.
Originally posted by lillin I see no fualt in letting other parties provide service for a product if they wish, they are not reselling the game, just a service for that game.
However in games like L2, your monthly fee goes to the development of expansion packs and new content. L2 currently has 5 free expansions released with 7 to go. By playing on private servers, you are taking advantage of these expansions without paying the fee to fund them. first terrorism, now you're paying/funding FREE expansions... BRILLIANT!
edited: just so no one misunderstands... if you pay for something, that means it's not free. What about terrorism? Please comprehend what I'm trying to communicate. I'm saying that just because you can never fully defeat it, that doesn't mean we shouldn't stop fighting it. Do you understand what I am trying to say? Do you also agree that the same goes for piracy? Or do you think we should stop trying to prevent it because it will always be there?
If the L2 expansions are free or not is debatable, I agree. They are free in the sense that you don't have to buy them, but they aren't in the sense that that's what a portion of the monthly fee goes to.
I'm trying to have a constructive discussion here, but it's extremely hard to contain my temper when you guys are just wanting to provoke.
Comments
Well L2's normal servers at normal leveling speed = the longest grind in a mmo ever.
l2extreme had faster leveling servers....thats how my friend got me interested. Because that was one of my biggest issues with the game, the amount of time it would have taken to reach max lvl.
just like the whole napster thing... you can stop one or two leaks... but you cant stop them all... if they didnt want to get pirated then why the hell didnt they do something like ffxi did with their server.. you have to connect to another program and get routed to their server from there... this country is based on scandols and what does one video game matter in the midst of presidential affairs...9/11...and george bush's recount... i think the fbi should be out spending more time finding bin laden than messing with the poor people who cant afford to play a great game every month... the credit card deprived... and the grind sick true gamers... nc soft should just be glad that people know the name and play their game .... just settle it like this.... all private servers shoudl pay some sort of royalties to the particular gaming company in order to run their own private server... let the private servers get their donations... (an indirect form of getting money... its totally optional..their own creations....) and just give a share to the company. im not saying let them have the exact copyrighted files.. but allow them to create their own off the basis of the idea... like the reverse java.... ok last comment... i think nc soft should be more worried about how people are gonna get sick of paying to grind and come up with a better solution to make people pay them every month.....
How many people could this private server hold at once?
Yes, it's ok to steal a product if it sucks because then you wouldn't pay for it anyway.
It's also ok to steal if the product is awesome, because then you have a human right to enjoy it. Right?
Yes, it's pointless to fight piracy because it will always be there. We should stop fighting crime and terrorism as well because we can never fully defeat it. Give me a break.
The "age of games where you could just put the games into your console and enjoy a few hours of it" is still here, smartass. There are more of those games than mmorpg's.
Look, if you don't like their payment model or the grind, you don't play the game. It's not much more complicated than that.
How was napster *not* hurting the music industry? Don't give me the "good advertising" crap. I think I've met one guy ever who actually bought a cd after he downloaded it.
yea it was bound to happen, almost every L2 official illegal server gets shut down, i got out before getting caught myself :P
It was exciting, fun, reminded me of beta which was awesome and besides some flaws in the game design which were retardedly introduced by NCSoft in chronicle 4 (ty for cancel skills and the necromancer) it showed how great of an MMORPG L2 really is and was far higher quality than the retail servers.
Of course these things don't mean we are allowed to steal from NCSoft but if you had played retail you would probably know, NCSoft are thieves themselves. I'm 100% positive they used to selectively ban people that threatened their profits (legit players botting), whilst allowing adena farmers bots to roam around freely at no risk then creating a world where one can't survive or compete without purchasing adena from a 3rd party seller forcing a monopoly of profits from those who break the EULA to farm gold for real life cash and those who break it to afford the largely inflated in game prices.
It would make sense for NCSoft to change the game so that there would be less farmers, they do not because it will dig into their pockets.
Again I would like to say L2 is unplayable without ebaying now, basic mats cost ridiculous prices that are impossible to meet and NCsoft do NOT combat this except with banning some bots which of course they make more money when those that are banned buy new accounts and bot/farm for another year.
I'm sure there's many people from that server who are upset that their game was "Wrongfully taken away" from them. LOL!
Dia
So many games, so little time!
I've spent over $500 on Lineage 2 be it monthly fees or buying adena (without ebaying you can't even level up now because crafting so screwed) then started playing on private servers and having way more fun. Was finally getting my money back and bam it was as you said, wrongfully taken away.
Any post on the official forums about bots is instantly locked / deleted because they don't want to ban bots (permanently) but they also don't want people to leave when they read about bots. Instead they let farmers bots make a huge profit so when they are banned they'll definately return.
Levelling now is easier than ever. You get free temporary weapons from class changes. You get free starter buffs. You can trade weapons with the npc. You get a full set of top D-grade armor by joining an academy. In interlude you can rent weapons. It's by far not harder "now".
There is a *sticky* on the official boards about bots. Any threads you make about it are deleted because you are meant to post in this thread.
maybe we should put nazis in jail that want to make people play boring games where devs can't be bothered to IMPROVE upon anything but their LIMITED "vision". yes, nazis in jail, i like that. lord knows we can't have private servers where people IMPROVE upon crap games. what are they thinking???
could we please get correspondent writers and moderators, on the eve forum at mmorpg.com, who are well-versed on eve-online and aren't just passersby pushing buttons? pretty please?
Levelling now is easier than ever. You get free temporary weapons from class changes. You get free starter buffs. You can trade weapons with the npc. You get a full set of top D-grade armor by joining an academy. In interlude you can rent weapons. It's by far not harder "now".
There is a *sticky* on the official boards about bots. Any threads you make about it are deleted because you are meant to post in this thread.
I'm aware of the sticky and I'm also aware that admins never pay attention too it, it's the rug they sweep their problems under. Do you know of Haplex? It is a hack created by greeks that was supposedly fixed a year ago and any thread regarding people that are seen using it is deleted the moment its seen by an admin. Not locked, it's actually deleted because they never fixed it and don't want people to know.
The other thing, last time I played retail (rerolled from January to April) I was so bored because there was nobody to party with, ever. We took Gludio castle with 9 people because only 3 people were defending... compare this to a private server siege. PvP outside the arena is a rarity on retail now because nobody is a real player, they are just bots. On a private server you can pvp non-stop for hours.
Did you know korea has a relaxed server with high rates but limited amount of xp u can gain daily? Why doesn't NCNA do this instead of crappy Franz server? I'll tell you why, because everyone would join it because u wouldn't need bots to play on it. Without bots they will be lose profit, again it's all a conspiracy.
One final thing, you said you never ebayed and neither did your friend to progress ok, well if this was true and it's really not so bad then why is there such a huge problem with bots?
Please don't get me wrong, I've played l2 for years now and it's long been my favourite game but I really dislike NCSoft for their poor administration for $20 a month compared to some of the excellent administration of private servers which survive on donations.
I am a bit naive on this subject. Why do people care if there are private servers for these online games?
To my understanding you buy the game, then you buy a subscription which allows you to play a game on the companies servers with the companies support?
either way you still bought the game.
a private server is just another choice in how you want to play the game. Taking choices away from people does not sound like a good idea.
Well company x is losing y amount of money from subscription loss ......... ok company x needs to get thier sh!t together and figure out why a couple guys on low budget servers with littleman power is kicking thier @ss.
i also do not think company x has the right to demand funds from other companies service. these other low budget companies we will call them are actually helping sell the game for the company x ......... only thing i could see would be a lisencing fee for using thier core game, but this would be gouged im sure.
I see no fualt in letting other parties provide service for a product if they wish, they are not reselling the game, just a service for that game.
Wallo
Yes, it's ok to steal a product if it sucks because then you wouldn't pay for it anyway.
It's also ok to steal if the product is awesome, because then you have a human right to enjoy it. Right?
Yes, it's pointless to fight piracy because it will always be there. We should stop fighting crime and terrorism as well because we can never fully defeat it. Give me a break.
did those FBI guys help catch bin laden? oh wait, those are the ones that kept ignoring warnings about stuff that led up to 911, right? maybe they were too busy messing around trying to shut down private game servers...
glad people like you are out there to give your support to federal agencies being sure to get rid of the evil private servers of games.
your comparing a private server to terrorism should provoke most anyone.
could we please get correspondent writers and moderators, on the eve forum at mmorpg.com, who are well-versed on eve-online and aren't just passersby pushing buttons? pretty please?
That wasn't my point. If you read the post, you'd see that it was implying it's pointless to fight piracy because you can never defeat it. I was using a sarcastic example as to why this is a stupid way of thinking.
However in games like L2, your monthly fee goes to the development of expansion packs and new content. L2 currently has 5 free expansions released with 7 to go. By playing on private servers, you are taking advantage of these expansions without paying the fee to fund them.
lillin wrote:
To my understanding you buy the game, then you buy a subscription which allows you to play a game on the companies servers with the companies support?
either way you still bought the game.
a private server is just another choice in how you want to play the game.
Well company x is losing y amount of money from subscription loss ......... ok company x needs to get thier sh!t together and figure out why a couple guys on low budget servers with littleman power is kicking thier @ss.
amen
You also don't have to "buy the game" to play on private servers. You can download lineage 2 + chronicle 1 + chronicle 2 + chronicle 3 + chronicle 4 + chronicle 5 for absolutely free without even having an account.
Faur wrote:
That still doesn't justify the expansions I mentioned above.
The piracy debate has gone on for years and years with the same points being made over and over ad nauseum. Despite widespread piracy, most media still turn a healthy profit. More than healthy when you consider that TV, movies and games are pulling in more money than they ever have before. MMOs are a special case however....
The client may cost money, or it may be free. The money you spend is for access to a service. If someone else is offering that same access for free....
Let me put it to you this way. If you buy a cable box, does that mean that you can only use that cable box to access one cable company? If you actually own the box, you should be able to migrate to another service and still use the box. Most cable companies get around this by making you rent the box. Am I buying WoW for $50, or is it just an activation fee for a rental? If so, why isn't there a contract commitment as there is with cell phones, satellite and cable providers?
The real problem occurs when more people are migrating to another (free) service. Do the developers analyze what that service is doing differently? Do they try to change their own service to match or exceed the competing service? Why should they? They can simply shut down anyone that does it better than they do. UO has actually be smart about the private server issue by looking at the developments in free shards and integrating them into the OSI servers. NCSoft doesn't seem to care. Rather than deal with the game's flaws, they simply build on them and then shut down the free servers. Bad business all the way around if you ask me.
Closing a popular private server here and there isn't going to end the problem. Making a better game probably won't end it either. But at least you have a better chance with a better game than you would by burying your head in the sand.
BTW, Those expansions are mostly art and database updates. They take a long time to produce, but still only a fraction of the time and manpower it took to put the initial game together.
If you introduced any of these elements to the official servers, I'm sure it would be super popular for a little while, but I doubt it would have the longevity that L2 is going for.
I dunno about the expansions being mostly art updates. Some stuff that weren't at launch but was or is going to be added in expansions are the seven signs (only 3 signs are currently ingame, more to come later) including the festivals/catacombs/necropoli, cross-server wars, aerial and naval battles, clan reputation system, subclasses, olympiad, noblesse/hero, and duel system.
I'm not going to say that L2 is the perfect game, it does have it's share of problems. I just disagree with this "they should let us play on private servers because it sucks anyway/is too expensive/private servers are better" mentality.
first terrorism, now you're paying/funding FREE expansions... BRILLIANT!
edited: just so no one misunderstands... if you pay for something, that means it's not free.
could we please get correspondent writers and moderators, on the eve forum at mmorpg.com, who are well-versed on eve-online and aren't just passersby pushing buttons? pretty please?
Free private servers are against federal law too.
You are allowing people to access a copywrighted game system for free or without paid for clients which damages the copywright owners income stream.
I have to say, despite the law, I am morally O.K. with private servers. I think forcin people to hire the server from you after you have already paid £30 for the client software is tantamount to being a rip off. I don't mind paying top whack for a quality server well maintained and well supported, but I object to being forced to or my legally paid for software not working.
Banning private servers is not in the intrest of the end user, only the producer.
first terrorism, now you're paying/funding FREE expansions... BRILLIANT!
edited: just so no one misunderstands... if you pay for something, that means it's not free.
What about terrorism? Please comprehend what I'm trying to communicate. I'm saying that just because you can never fully defeat it, that doesn't mean we shouldn't stop fighting it. Do you understand what I am trying to say? Do you also agree that the same goes for piracy? Or do you think we should stop trying to prevent it because it will always be there?
If the L2 expansions are free or not is debatable, I agree. They are free in the sense that you don't have to buy them, but they aren't in the sense that that's what a portion of the monthly fee goes to.
I'm trying to have a constructive discussion here, but it's extremely hard to contain my temper when you guys are just wanting to provoke.