Howdy, Stranger!
It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!
Quick Links
Todays MMO players will never get it
misterfuriou
Member Posts: 40
I have been reading the mmorpg forums a lot today for some reason. I keep seeing the same things over and over old school people that played UO and know just how awesome it was and so called "experts" that have played WOW, EQ2, DAOC and whatever else arguing it out. The new players just cant grasp the pvp aspect of UO.
In today's games you fight monsters for hours on end to get the greatest gear possible, once you have that gear you go kill people easily and flex your e-muscles. Out of pvp in these games you get: a mob with better AI, but basically its the exact same thing as fighting a mob in the game. In UO if you pvped you wore crafted gear: the same stuff the other guy had on therefore the outcome of the battle was based on your skills (or how many buddies came to your aid
). And when you died you lost your gear but it wasn't gear you spent 6 months collecting it took 5 minutes to get it.
In WoW and the other "mmorpgs" companies are churning out like theres no tomorow they want to keep you fighting monsters for as long as possible, this is your sole source of income, equipment and entertainment. Once you have reached max level they will raise it so you can kill more monsters. In UO you could be the richest person in the game and never kill a single monster. You didnt need to fight mobs in UO to be entertained, there was exploring that mattered, rare hunting, socializing, crafting, resource gathering, shopping (I would sometimes search vendor malls for hours looking for a certain rare, now you goto the AH and its handed to you) and much more.
In UO you could still show your staus and power with a large house and rare items, but these rare items didnt make you a better player in any way and you didnt have to kill a monster 1000 times to find them. Yes PvP was a big part of UO but it was the tip of the ice berg. If you didnt want to get ganked you had your freinds go with you maybe a group of PKs would come to spoil your fun but if you battled it out with them it was more funt han what you set out to do in the firstplace.
Since you didnt get "honor points" for killing someone you usually wouldnt be ganked repeatedly and your gear wasnt that valuable so they wouldnt grief you. Usually once you got PKed if you were cool about it the guy would rez you give you your stuff back and you could talk for a little and he'd send you on your way. After that you now have a powerful friend who could perhaps help you out the next time he sees you fighting somebody.
The social interaction was more in UO than it can ever be in a timesink game like WoW. Sometimes you would just hang with your friends and talk for hours and be having fun the entire time. Not worrying about missing out on the raid later on.
In current mmos you log in for hours on end so that you can become as powerfull as possible, in UO you logged in for hours on end because you were having fun.
Sorry for the long post but maybe some of you guys that never played UO in its glory days and dont realize what it was all about can understand where we old timers are coming from.
In today's games you fight monsters for hours on end to get the greatest gear possible, once you have that gear you go kill people easily and flex your e-muscles. Out of pvp in these games you get: a mob with better AI, but basically its the exact same thing as fighting a mob in the game. In UO if you pvped you wore crafted gear: the same stuff the other guy had on therefore the outcome of the battle was based on your skills (or how many buddies came to your aid
). And when you died you lost your gear but it wasn't gear you spent 6 months collecting it took 5 minutes to get it.In WoW and the other "mmorpgs" companies are churning out like theres no tomorow they want to keep you fighting monsters for as long as possible, this is your sole source of income, equipment and entertainment. Once you have reached max level they will raise it so you can kill more monsters. In UO you could be the richest person in the game and never kill a single monster. You didnt need to fight mobs in UO to be entertained, there was exploring that mattered, rare hunting, socializing, crafting, resource gathering, shopping (I would sometimes search vendor malls for hours looking for a certain rare, now you goto the AH and its handed to you) and much more.
In UO you could still show your staus and power with a large house and rare items, but these rare items didnt make you a better player in any way and you didnt have to kill a monster 1000 times to find them. Yes PvP was a big part of UO but it was the tip of the ice berg. If you didnt want to get ganked you had your freinds go with you maybe a group of PKs would come to spoil your fun but if you battled it out with them it was more funt han what you set out to do in the firstplace.
Since you didnt get "honor points" for killing someone you usually wouldnt be ganked repeatedly and your gear wasnt that valuable so they wouldnt grief you. Usually once you got PKed if you were cool about it the guy would rez you give you your stuff back and you could talk for a little and he'd send you on your way. After that you now have a powerful friend who could perhaps help you out the next time he sees you fighting somebody.
The social interaction was more in UO than it can ever be in a timesink game like WoW. Sometimes you would just hang with your friends and talk for hours and be having fun the entire time. Not worrying about missing out on the raid later on.
In current mmos you log in for hours on end so that you can become as powerfull as possible, in UO you logged in for hours on end because you were having fun.
Sorry for the long post but maybe some of you guys that never played UO in its glory days and dont realize what it was all about can understand where we old timers are coming from.
Former UO player searching for something even remotely close to what UO was...
Comments
You touch on points that I mostly agree with, but there are some blanket condemnations that I feel are not warranted. Many are quick to attack games like WoW among others claiming they are basically a trip through Candyland. True, I have no interest in these titles myself (lasted 5 weeks in EQ2) because they are not my cup of tea. However, I believe they do serve a purpose that may benefit MMOs down the road. When UO first came out I told people whom I worked with about my adventures, good and bad. They were intriqued by the concept, yet apprehensive hearing about getting ganked and other boorish behavior. Bottom line, a lot of people did not even bother to try the genre because of the antics along with there being a steep learning curve.
Developers took notice, especially after what happened in UO when Trammel came to be. The population distribution at the beginning of this transformation turned out to be 85% playing Trammel and 15% playing Felucca. For two years Origin/EA devoted a lot of energy and resources to get the population more balanced. They put in factions on Felucca where clans could fight over and control towns (which was interesting), gave double resources on the Felucca side, etc. After two years they gave up because the numbers basically did not budge.
So, this is why you are seeing games that many "old timers" are quick to rip. Some of my coworkers are playing titles like Guild Wars and this is a good thing because they probably wouldn't have taken the plunge unless some kind of MMO-lite came along. Developers faced with today's astronomical costs associated with creating a title need numbers and this is who they want. The good news is that one friend who has played Guild Wars has mentioned him and his wife are thinking of finding something more challenging *wink-fish on". In the meantime, I would not hold my breath for anything that strays too far away from the model that has been used for quite some time now.
This means that those reminiscing about the good old days of pre-Trammel waiting for the new game to come out that captures it may have a very long wait. Actually, I have a sneaking feeling that has gone the way of the Dodo bird never to be seen again in a large commercial release. Sure, you'll see PvP gimmicks like seperate servers, arenas, consensual and the such, but it will be just an afterthought and don't expect much love. Believe me, if the numbers spoke otherwise someone somewhere would be all over it like stink on you know what. Instead, they view it as SVM (small vocal minority) and pretty much ignore it, kind of like static that is filtered out. My best hope is that enough of the MMO-lite players decide and vocalize they want something more and some brave developer with deep pockets goes for it. I want to see things like there are in UO like T-maps, MIBs, BODs, growing plants, etc.
Former UO player searching for something even remotely close to what UO was...
Random PvP was FUN and part of being a noob and running away from PKers... Keep in mind the population was HUGE and you were HARDPRESSED to find someone genuinely complaining that they got killed 1 time while trying to kill harpies in Covetous, there is no penalty for dieing except you lose some gold and maybe some random items... Not a big deal!
Here is something I tell anyone when debating the issue of the "old skool" UO that I loved and so many others did.
IT IS BASED AROUND THE MIDDLE AGES! In those times, if I was a noble and walked into your peasent hut, I could kill the father and 2 sons, rape the hot mom and daughter and then leave and nothing WOULD EVER HAPPEN!
On a small road I could kill a random traveler and steal all his belongings and drag body into bushes and NOTHING WOULD EVER HAPPEN!
Think about what the game is based around guys! Quit Whining. Fel for life!
Old Skool Ultima Online Junky
Bring back the OLD UO so I can play again
Lots of low hanging fruit here. Let's see, where can I begin. I think we can safely assume which side of the fence you were on when it came to the "FUN" PvP. The giveaway was not knowing what happens to those on the receiving end. When a person got resurrected, all that was in their backback was their blessed dagger with the only stitch of clothing being a deathrobe-everything else was on the body (unless you were running around with a practice weapon). Funny, I don't remember anyone that I PK'd ever coming up to thank me for the "FUN", nor do I recollect when I was on the other end of the exchange the desire to give my killer a big hug for making my world better.
As for the old UO "that so many loved", let's get real. The highest number I ever saw for UO subscriptions was 275K and that peak was reached after the opening of Trammel. Compared to the number of subscriptions generated by some of the MMO-lite titles now that is nothing. I didn't want to say this in my original post because I didn't want to totally pop the OP's hope of ever seeing something like the old UO, but those significantly higher numbers I think sealed the coffin of that hope. With developers having to shell out $50+ million now to put together a major title, they need numbers and they look at UO's old numbers as an insuffcient quantity. Now if those smaller numbers are willing to pay $74.95 a month or something like that, then the math might start to work out.
Now we come to the meat and potatoes part. Normally I see a post like this I'll take my chuckles and move on. But when someone goes about skewing history, I have a bad habit of wanting to straighten it out. Yes, human history is filled with violence including incidents you so graphically wrote, but the total anarchy you potray giving the impression that anyone could do anything they wanted at their whim is misleading. I guess that's what happens when someone relies on Hollywood for their historical knowledge. Try cracking open a history book, a good place to start would be the Code of Hammurabi which was a set of laws written about 3700 years ago. Under those laws, a person committing perjury was put to death. For those glorious Middle Ages mentioned, one can begin with the Magna Carta. Looking around today, doesn't appear to me to be much different than most other times in recorded history.
The OP and those participating on this thread I think are bringing up a legitimate discussion as to what they would like to see. I think many who would like to see a new game with a pre-Trammel feel are frustrated because they think they're getting kicked to the curb. I really wish I had an encouraging word to offer for those with these hopes because I think a diverse MMO slate of games is healthier than a bunch of cookie-cutter clones. Unfortuantely, with the big money involved nowadays I am pessimistic about the chances anytime in the forseeable future.
And MOST PKs weren´t the "Res->pat on the shoulder->gate home"-type, but the other kind. People who would loot you clean even if they had to trash 90% of the loot later, people who would kill you again the instant you ressed at the wandering healer. Human trash sociopaths..
That put aside, I loved pre-trammel UO. To be precise, I loved pre-powerhour UO. There was that feeling of real palpable danger when walking out the door, I liked the closeknit community, the loose RPing almost everyone practiced and I loved fighting it out with reds. I also enjoyed killing noto-PKs because they were just exploiting the flaws in the system. Crafting was cool, the world was interactive, ALIVE, throbbing.
I loved the slow increase in skill (until bloody powerhour), everyone just played on without staring at the skills-scroll all the time.
But, all in all, the game was commercialy seen, totally flawed. Which became evident after EQ released and topped UO subs in no time at all. Personally, I lasted until lvl 7 in EQ then trashed it never to install it again. But one thing you´ve got to give Verant: They understood what people wanted, that´s why even until today most games feel like EQ clones. Give the player a carrot to hunt, some static content to camp/farm, loot to brag about, watch the cash flowing.
The "virtual world"-design, on the other hand is a niche product. There was a flicker of hope of it becoming mainstrean again when SWG came, but SOE f**ked up so badly that no major company is likely to release a skill-based, complex virtual world any time soon.
And why should they? Because you and me think it´s better ?
Fact is, the audience for virtual world, FFA-pvp games is small, and a great part of it are sociopathic griefers that NOONE wants to have in his game. So we might aswell get used to the idea that all we´re ever going to get is indy productions. And a last word to all griefers/exploiters/abusers: YOU RUINED IT FOR US ALL.
Didnt it get your heart pumping when you and 3 of your buddies were killing drags on Covetous Lvl 4 and 2 reds came in... killed one of you and the 3 of you had a big fight and killed 1 of the reds and the other fled?
Then you heckled the red?
Come on man, dont be a trammie...
I am a history buff man, if you want me to take pictures of my DVD/Book/Video collection on history I will gladly do it for you. And laws were loosely enforced and if some guy is mining north of minoc, and I run by and stab him and grab his 2000 ingots... guess what?
No one will EVER KNOW! That is how the world was then...
Get over it man, UO original is the greatlest Fantasy Middle Ages game ever created. Skill based and not trying to level which is totally lame!
Old Skool Ultima Online Junky
Bring back the OLD UO so I can play again
I can definetly tell the ganker mentality. I loved UO and I love pvp however I do remember the beggining clearly. How many people quit with in frustration because of the gankers. To say the PVMers didnt lose anything LOL. Lets see they would be killing mobs for 1 hr with vanq's and get ganked by multiple reds, and lose all thier gear and items and because they were PVM they usually had hundreds of each reagent? Even if you killed the ganking reds you would only get 10 reagents.
Not a surprise the popular spots for reds and "pvpers" were right outside newbie zones with ganker blues side by side with reds. Rarely would they fight eachother, mostly it was just gank the newb killing rabbits or bears. Take the 10 bandages and sword that the poor noob had, only items to thier name.
Or another great spot was kill a miner. I actually had a miner back then and would see a red about every 10 minutes. I finally just bought like 6 drags and had them sitting in the cave entrance waiting for the gankers. That was of course when there was no taming required. But seriously how hard is it to kill a miner? If you log on to your pvp char of course the red was gone, or would run into there house.
And better yet, the Classic sit outside someones house in stealth, gank the newb and take thier house key and everything in their house. That was really fun.
Unfortunately most pvpers thought it was more fun to gank easy targets then to actaully fight someone with skill. Which is why they all left when trammel came out. They just couldnt take fighting the pvpers at the same caliber that were in felluca. I found it funny how after getting my char fully GM'ed out, rarely would anyone ever try to attack me unless it was 3v1. Yet when I was 30% skill all there was were PK's. I suppose those days are forgotten by the gankers.
Yes I am betting there are soooooo many people just waiting for a pre trammel UO style game. /laugh
Ya actually before there were lockdowns there was no lockdowns, was a time you just put your stuff wherever no lockdowns were available. Unfortunately this let people clean your entire house clean in a few minutes. But you have to give credit to UO dev, they fixed bugs and bad game mechanics pretty quickly compared to other games. Probably one of the things that makes the game so good to many even after all these years.
I find it funny how some people just look back at thier first MMO and say how great things were pre..... yet when they where in it, all they could think about was how upset they were. Probably the same people constantly complaining about how great the town they grew up in was compared to where they are now. Yet when they were there they did everything they could to leave.
Exactly why dev's need to be careful on what community players they listen to. There are just too many people that really dont know what they want. Yet pretend to have all the answers.
Yeah, I remember my first day vividly. I went to the Britain graveyard, stole off anyone I could and looted up all the nice player corpses just lying around. Good times....
Any time I saw another newb I could take, I'd jump him too. I went red in 2 days, UO was great. Newb vs newb PvP is the best PvP there is if you ask me. Nobody knows what they are doing, it's just hardcore fun.
As for ganking newbs and not killing other reds, that's not the way I remember it. I remember the Baja graveyard where the PK's owned all the houses, took in the newbs, got ganked by about 20 other newbs, killed them all, and let the newbs who didn't attack us have all the loot because we didn't need it.
I havn't played UO since AOS came out, but I don't remember killing every newb I saw. I was a PK, but I wasn't an asshole. I killed when I had a reason to and I helped out all the new players I could. The same goes for my PK friends. I don't know what shard you played on, but it sounds like you had a shitty quality playerbase there.
On to the ganking....I was and still am (in other games) a solo PK'er. I do love a 3v1 as you put it, but I only get a thrill out of it when it's not in my favor, which was one of the great things about UO [the ability to 1v3 and live].
Please don't call us all gankers. Dueling DID take a lot of skill in UO, which is why the jhelom farms were full of duelists 24/7. I spent about half of my time dueling and the other half doing open PvP. The more people I was fighting, the more loot I could get and the longer I could fund my dueling addiction.
It just seems to me all the people that bitch about unfair PvP are the ones that suck at it. The hardcore PvP'ers may be a minority, but a game that was tailored specifically to them would tap into an enormous playerbase and give the RP'ers in the pussy games out now a lot less to bitch about.
Really Brainy, then you played the wrong way.
The first few times you get hit, sure, it pisses people off, but they learn from it, and adept. And those that don't just keep whining about how unfair it is, instead of taking action. It did not take long for most newbies to learn when somebody called out "PK'ers ----->", and you had yourself a posy. Now, even with a posy, it was never 100% safe. Sometimes the PK'ers left, or they hide. Or other times, they where waiting in abuse ( aaaaa ... have some fount memory's of mass Blue vs Red mass fights ). Some you won, some you lost.
But, most! pk'ers where not the bastards the whiners made out to be. If you asked, most will resurrect you, and return some basic items. Now, if you where a snob, like most whiners, and yelled how much of a fuckhead those reds are... You get what you deserve. No resurrect, and forget about your equipment.
Now, you did have some bad red's, bunch of kids playing highwaymen, but for the most part, most reds used to be ok. It did go downhile when Origin placed more & more restrictions on Reds. During the times of the Dread Lords, you had a hard time finding kiddy reds. But when they started to nerve the reds, the good players started to stop, and what was left, used to be more of the kiddy kind.
But, UO was a world where you learned how to handle yourself, and you learned to cooperate. The funny thing is, those that suck at PvP, are in general the same people who keep yelling how unfair it is, and are the people you can't stand. More interestingly, is how fast those players turn red. You hear them curing how bad Red's are, and how nobody helps them ( what do you expect. Act like a spoiled brad, and your on your own ), and a while later, you see there name light up nice & red.
What mmorpg can you run into some reds, and actually have a nice conversation without them killing you? It used to be UO. And the adrenaline rush of outrunning ( on foot ), a few kiddie PK'ers on horse's in the woods.
The UO community used to be more grown up, then after the "expansion". Best is to compare it to EVE Online imho. Sure, there are a shitload of messages also of whiners who get there ass handed to them. So they learn, of just keep getting there ass handed to them.
You're full of BS and your opinion is just as shallow as your figures are wrong.
It's never fun to lose is it? When your team loses the game, are you delighted about it? No, but what you should realize is that you need to take loses in order to appreciate your wins. Is there even any competition in a game where you never lose? Is a game without competition even a game?
You never saw UO subscriptions of 275k, that never happened ever, which also means it did not happen, "after the opening of Trammel." The peak was not until three years later and it was only a sharp spike surrounding Age of Shadows, which opened up a new housing area after previously limiting accounts to one house each - in order to place a house in the new lands players needed additional accounts - Age of Shadows included free trial account keys.
Other than the short spike, UO quit growing within a year after the release of the horrible Trammel expansion.
Do your homework: http://www.mmogradio.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1420
Secondly, of course this is only my opinion, but Ultima Online is the best MMO's I've played to date. It was also my first one. I was never a PKer, but I loved when people tried to PK me and my friends. The idea that anyone can attack anyone is one that has been lost in MMO's since UO. The ONLY thing that I found to be severely flawed with UO was that it was far too easy to hide and recall. If Pkers had to stay and fight everyone else in a dungeon it'd be a completely different game than one where some 12 year old can recall in cast 3 spells, kill you, loot you, hide, and recall in 10 seconds.
I pretty much only posted to direct the OP to Darkfall, which I am very excited about, but also to share my opinion that I (and I think a LOT of players) loved the FFA PVP aspect of UO. Trammel was without a doubt the downfall of UO, anyone who played before and after will definately agree with me.
Me and a buddy had a pet gorilla named 'Bobo' that we kept locked behind some chests in our house. One time my buddy disconnected in town and some thief stole our house key and the rune to get there. Of course, he was disconnected so we didn't know this at first. When we went to the house later there were three people just going through our house taking stuff...but worst of all...they killed Bobo! We eventually killed them enough times that they gave us our key back, but I'm sure they made copies first
So many good and bad memories of UO... but if you think most people seek fun from MMOs, and adrenaline easily gives that feeling, new-age MMOs just fool you. I stick with GW because it can still pump me some fun, but that's on PvP. PvE is a bit... not perfect, instancing which I don't like with no monster spawning, which I like. I'm having fun at another side, that's it. But I miss the adrenaline of walking out of your house, then you hear something and *think* you saw a red name (not 100% sure), then you run quickly into the house, lock the door, and prey, very scared.
One thing is certain though, UO teached you good things that don't bring profit, so that's why they stopped making UO-like games. But one of the main reasons I'm not playing UO currently is the very outdated graphics (meh, give me a UO with graphics of the same quality as GW and I'll be very happy, even better, give me a UO in 1 year, with DX10 graphics), and the addition of those nasty third-party programs that made everything TOO EASY: UOAssist, UOAutomap, and all those macroing things. It was fun to play the raw, pure way, without ever bothering to check another program while you were playing. PvP with UOAssist was just a bunch of people pressing hotkeys and watching streaks of spells going on.
One game you should consider is EVE, if any has to earn the title of UO follower (be it the most remote resemblance) that's the game. A skill system that does not envolve only fighting. Viable fun, you may be a veteran that has never killed another person, as there is a lot of options other than fighting in the game. I don't play it though, but that's because I'm already too drawn into GW.
To the hopes we'll ever see another MMO, comparable with UO.
The problem with FFA PVP you so much remember is that all the advantages are going to the PK. They attack when they want to. They come out of hiding just as a fireball from a dragon hits someone and puts the last flamestrike/corp por to finish them off even if they use a health pot. They wear low cost GM armor/weaps so even if they die, which is rare (see advantages above) they dont lost anything valuable. Meanwhile PVE'rs have all the negatives against them. Additionally trying to say if so and so just stopped whining and practiced they could be a good PVPer. This is complete nonsense. Thats no more realistic then Bill Gates saying if you just worked a little harder and stopped crying about your wages you would have just as much money as he does. Simple facts are the top teir players will always be better then the bottom tier. In reality the PVPers probably accounted for less then 10% of the games population.
If FFA is going to be available then the game should balance it with disadvantages. Make everything FFA. Like making all the characters on an account known. So someone cant just log off thier red and onto thier blue. That way little tailor on the corner can setup a blacklist, and all her friends can blacklist every red and their friends. Make it where people can put a person on their enemy list and every single char will glow when they come near, that way some blue can sit next to you waiting until you are almost dead and do a quick fireball and finish you off. Make it where if one char turns red then all chars on the account turn red. Make it if you help a red you become red. Just like in real life, illegal to aide criminals. Make it where people cant be invisible. So reds cant just kill, run and hide. Make it where people who attack someone cant recall for 30 minutes. Make it where if your killed a nice little arrow shows up on your mini mapper showing your attacker, that way you can assemble a posse to kill the little ganker and his friends. Make it where peoples alignment shows on all chars, that way people cant run from thier alignment, just like a criminal record. Its all the above is why FFA dont work, because if they did all that, then you wouldnt see any reds. Then at least you can respect the reds that do play, as real role players. They would have the advantages of surprise and pking at will, but would have to suffer the social penalty.
Sad reality is that PK's never stuck around for a fair fight. They would fight from thier house. Or in places where there are 20 reds against 10 blues at the graveyards. Even then if they started to lose they would just retreat to thier house. After a red and his 4 friends ganked you, they wouldnt stick around for you to bring 4 friends. They would be long gone. Only reds that would solo would be right outside Brit (newb zone) or trying to kill newb miners.
If reds were so honorable then why were all the RED spots at the newb cities and RED community houses/towers were all along newb paths. No coincidence, reds were newb gankers nothing more. There were a few, VERY FEW, that would actually attack everyone, the rest were nothing more then griefer kids making 98% of the populations life miserable.
Very easy to agree with everything you said. I'm sure to ramble since I'm in the MMO-Desert right now (vast baren land of nothing but dried crap blowing around).
I was turned on to UO by my son (pre-Trammel) and will never ever forget the feeling that game gave me. I remember my first death (fire elemental). I was literally shaking and screaming, waking everyone in the house up. My son had to go retrieve my worldy goods (you know, the robe I made myself, lol).
I played off and on up until a couple years ago and certain small things amazed me. To this day I have never seen every square inch of the game. Why? Simply because there was always so much to do you didn't go looking for new places to explore or simply because there were things so enjoyable you didn't need to go look elsewhere. It wasn't until I made a 200 and something book rune library (yes, I'm seriouse, I had every cool location on both facets) that I realized how much I hadn't seen even after playing 7 years).
I absolutely loved player made armor. I loved the fact that if you died, you'd just go make yourself some more armor, or go grab some off a vendor and go back to fighting. I don't recall ever saying "dam, I can't fight, I don't have any money to buy new armor." It was even fun to just go fight in a death robe. The biggest downer was someone taking your mandrake root (bit hard to recall to the vendor without it, but even then you could grab some off the ground).
And talk about community! The best on-line friends I have had came from UO. That was the most interactive game EVER! I played on Pacific and was the original GM of UCB (Ashalia). That was the best group of people I have ever played with. We had "capture the Flag" tournaments and even practiced for our Fel dungeon runs. I will never forget how we'd send two groups out (one in red robes, the other in blue) and one would be designated to go attack the other (neither knowing who would get the command to go after the other group). It was the most fun I have ever had in any online game. I'd take that over monster-slaying any day of the week!
You are absolutely right about the critter-killing though. So many games now have critter-kills as the experience grind. In UO, you could work some skills standing still, in your home, on a boat, with another player, with NPC's, in a field with a goat....a whole host of ways. It's primarily just critter killing now in other games.
MMO's today are just the same old crap tossed out a different way. World of Warcraft graphics impressed me. It is a cool feeling "flying" for the first time, but that is the only real feeling I ever got from that game. Getting a holocron in SWG was a cool feeling, along with seeing a dark Jedi for the first time and then there was opening the Jedi slot (when you had to master x number of skills to do it) was also cool (so that's a whopping 3 great feelings from SWG). DAoC battlegrounds were good (close to the good old UO days, but then I played with UO buddies so that may influence that). CoH - no feeling what-so-ever there. FFXI - blah, same, nothing! EQ, Nada! That's not to say there aren't good things in the other games, there are, but it isn't the same.
A lot of people think UO's downfall was Trammel, but I don't think it was. I think the game lost appeal for a lot of players when an emphasis started to be placed on "gear." Sure, PvP died slightly when Trammel came along, but my arguement to it was always that Fel was still there. Some people simply did not want to PvP 24/7 and other did. The decline in population created "bad blood" between the two facets but the final straw I think was the gear. It got worse when bless deeds and insurance came into play.
I'll stop rambling. Long story short, I understand completely how some people can view it as the best game ever. It tops my list, even with it's old 2D game engine. Hell I even miss FL on occassion and all their grief
-Ashyn
Even in Tram you're not always safe. certainly recent EM events on different shards and the ongoing storyline have made many places unsafe to visit.
The Original Poster hit it right on the head, I really don't think anyone that played UO pre-TRAM would disagree.
And for that guy trying to bring up Population numbers, MMORPGS were a new thing back then, that's like saying TV in the 1940's sucked because not as many people had them back then as they do now.
The chance that everytime you stepped out of town you could get killed was an adrenaline rush, something that made you have to look for a remote place to mine, or gave you a reason to increase your stealth skill so that high lvl PKer couldn't find you while you were mining a populated place.
Sure it was a timesink, but it didn't feel like a timesink like MMORPGs do now, don't get me wrong I'm actively playing WoW but it's nothing compared to what UO used to be before EA got their grubby little hands into it.
Pay particularly close to the "If you didn't play back then" part of his comment because you really don't know what you're talking about, no matter what numbers you pull up from Time Magazine 1996
I think that while a lot of us are focusing on the PvP issue of UO, we are failing to mention the Depth of the game. You could make your money just sitting by the balcksmith and taking in orders, for example. Or you could go into the woods, tame Horses and bring them into town. Nowadays with most MMO's there is no point in developing your skill since most items can be replaced by killing a Dragon. You could just make your money just fishing for example. There was no presure to compete, it was easygoing.
When they split the lands, it basically devided the population which in turn created a less viable economy and player interaction which was at the heart of UO. I mean, the Bank in Britania used to be THE place to be.
But for me the biggest disapointment nowadays is that I cannot have a Stealth, Plate Wearing Caster for Example. UO gave you the choice to pick any skill you would want and develop your playing style for YOUR character.
But the thrill of leapfroggin a TON of ore and not knowing if you were going to get ganked or not cannot be matched by any MMO nowadays.
IronOre - Forging the Future