Then it's carebear for you, not for me. It's your opinion, I don't mind it. Though, personally I find it hard to say it's already carebear when it's still in alpha and you haven't played it yet?
Many things in the game can change, nonetheless. Don't judge before you've tried it. Maybe my opinion changes after trying it, but I'll give the game a shot.
Originally posted by SpeedMann You so called hardcore players are boring me. If you want PVP, full looting. Go play Shadowbane and stop crying because you think there's no game out there for you.
You hardcore players should be able to fill those servers and gank to your hearts content. It may have dated graphics but that should not stop you because the game play your looking for is there.
So stop crying on the forums and go play something.
People who cry about WOW no having PVP are just dumb. I get to kill whoever i want when i want and i get ganked to, its fun. Playing battlegrounds in WOW is boring PVP but finding it out in the zones is much more fun.
Ok, hardcore players stop feeling sorry for yourselves and crash those Shadowbane servers with all your leet abilities and have fun,ok.Ok.
And you are boring me, more than 90% of the MMORG's aim at the 'zero risk' gaming crowd (read EQ clones) so stop crying about us crying and run back to eq, wow, coh, d&d, eq, hko etc..
Originally posted by trigger190 Probably not, most people who call themselves 'Hardcore PVPers' who want full loot pvp, do it because they want to grief people, they want to take away people's possessions. If its just generated loot it may give them slightly more statisfaction but probably not enough.
There are certainly people who want to grief but there are also people who want consequences for others. These two groups intersect to some degree.
But it should be obvious that in a simulation type game like Eve losing stuff is actually imporat to the PvP. Causing you enemy to lose resources is part of how you take over a system. For example defense stations must be supplied. If you do not have looting you cannot use guerilla style warfare to deny them material and give yourself material.
Is grief a componenet of this stuff? Yes. But so are the acutal mechanics of warfare. Without looting there is no attirtion/gain mechanic.
For game like WAR I do not think this is necessary or even desirable. It is not a sim game like Eve. Unfotunately the problem is PvPer who don't know what they want or waht they are talking about. There is nothing wrong with Eve's way and there is nothing wrong with WAR's way. They are simply meant to accomplish different things.
It really is not hardcore vs. carebear. It is simulation game versus non-simulation game. WAR wil not be a war simulation. It is inherently play not sim. Eve is a sim. The people who complain about this stuff are complaining about lack of simulation like mechanics. They are just stroking their e-peens and indulgng in the "everyone who doesn't agree with me is a moron" trend when they say they are hardcore. If they think they are more hardcore than the top GvG players of Guild Wars then they are delusional. This had nothing to do with hardcore its about what people like and the whole point of the games. Some people want quick/fun action, others want realistic action. Some people want match play, others want a free for all simulation war.
Originally posted by Xyang Poor baby. Stick to WOW or hello kitty online, as you obviously have no idea about meaningful PVP and the MANY benefits brought on by knowing that you can die and lose your item's at any point.
Daoc has the best PvP RvR system of all current MMO and there's nothing to loot on body. Real pvp is about realm objective, not ganking. So i don't see why war hammer would be any different.
The additional loot is nice, but you should PvP for other reasons then that. (Accomplishing realm goals>>> ganking.
Disagree. I had much much more fun playing UO and AC1 Darktide than the PVP in DAOC.
And for all the carebears who keep whining about ganking and griefing in think the quote from the latest MMORPG article with the Darkfall dev put it best:
"Tasos Flambouras: Griefing makes an impact in games not geared to deal with it. Darkfall is made for PvP. We're sick and tired of the instant association of griefing with PvP. The PvP community shouldn't constantly be discounted like that. There's a lot of griefing going on in non PvP MMOs, like kill stealing, training, camping, and when these same games enable limited PvP, it only gets worse. Griefers in these games aren't accountable for their actions and the victims can't do anything about it. Most of the complaints about griefing come from these games."
Originally posted by osc8r Originally posted by wjrasmussen Originally posted by osc8r It's about risk vs reward. So there's the reward, where's the risk?
I want to know that if i die, i actually lose something meaningful to me ie RISK.
translated from ganker to gamer: I want to know that if you die, I get to take somethnig meaningfull from you. I can't be happy unless I ruin someone's day. Poor baby. Stick to WOW or hello kitty online, as you obviously have no idea about meaningful PVP and the MANY benefits brought on by knowing that you can die and lose your item's at any point.
heh getting someones gear is about ganking and griefing not about meaningful pvp. People that want full loot just want to grief and never will they ever enter a fight that is on equal terms. If they arent garanteed victory they will pass that target by while looking for another victim.
Meaningful pvp is thus
When you die ? when your comrades die... when you kill the enemy player what impact does it really have on the game ? Is a battle won or lost is a war going well or badly ? Is an objective lost or gained ? What impact did that battle have on the entire world or area ?
When it has an impact this is meaningfuil pvp and not what they drop.
Obviously you do not understand that full looting offers more than just 'loot', how about:
EMOTIONS! - yes, some good, some bad - but they are still there and not just one big safe grind Real rewards/consequences Crafters are sort after and in demand Real politics with both individual and group alliances and foes Viable endgame experience, unpredictable and exciting Real sense of victory and defeat Increased senses - alertness, perception and 'fear' - even boring travel has a new twist on it Playing smart has rewards Player trust Tactics with meaning and purpose Real consequences for your actions
Did i mention the adrenaline of PVP w/ looting. The sweaty palms, the pounding heart!
That's off the top of my head.
Obviously you carebears get killed a few times in these so called 'hardcore' games and drop a few items then run back to your 'PVE' servers - that's too bad.
Originally posted by David99 Obviously you do not understand that full looting offers more than just 'loot', how about:EMOTIONS! - yes, some good, some bad - but they are still there, no just one big safe grind Real rewards/consequences Crafters are sort after and in demand Real politics with both individual and group alliances Viable endgame experience Real feelings and emotions - you actually CARE when you die, care when you win A sense of alertness, increased perception and 'fear' (this seperates the carebears) Playing smart/hard actually has purpose instead of simply clicking 'res' and getting back into battle Trust - real friendships are formed, real enemies Tactics with meaning and purpose Consequences for your actionsThat's off the top of my head.Obviously you carebears get killed a few times in these so called 'hardcore' games and drop a few items then run back to your 'PVE' servers - that's too bad.
Nice work, my young friend. Why just post, when you can post AND insult.
so...why don´t you play RealLife if are in need of these points?
When i come home after a day of work, i just want to play, relax...not care if i die. I have consequences for my actions half of my day, just to name 2 of your wishes. Real friendships...lol.
I have to say that this topic has became like a flameboard to insult people it seems. How can you define a hardcore PvPer it seems hmmm.
Is it all because of a game mechanic to which people are hardcore at nicking other peoples items ?
Is it because someone plays the game longer to get better gear than others and so he's hardcore?
Is it because someone able to take on many people at once on his own ?
Okay what ever it is, I wish to point out that this game is meant for fun in Warhammer and I honestly wont see this fun for many people if this game turned out that people are meant to lose ALL their gear for dieing. I feel this game is meant for fun so that people are meant to co-operate and win objectives to move on to opposition lands e.g. Capital and then take out that Enemy King/Lord or whatever to gain great rewards because of getting there.
I am suprised to hear people say your a care bear or a zero risk item person all because they dont want to lose their gear from dieing that one time. Lets put it this way, not everyone can always be prepared to lose at some point in the game. What if people had a real life issue , what if people just wanted to casually play , does that mean people shouldnt play this game if this game had Full item loss? I honestly dont see an explanation to help a game grow for years to come if people have to spend time to get items of what they lost . Sure there are exceptions for games out there that do this e.g. Eve online and others but truly Warhammer shouldnt fall into this category for a true RvR game for many people that are looking forward to.
Oh if your going to call somone like me a WoW noob with this kind of suggestion then your going to make me laugh then. Cause WoW although there are people who think ITS just for kids then I guess they may of had bad experiences in it or just didnt feel it was fun at all thats all for them. But for me , well I did enjoy getting to level 60 and from there even being in a small Guild, I had no choice but to PvP for good items and I worked with the rubbish things and been ganked but I didnt mind cause I learnt ways to counter that and pulled off great combinations to tackle multiple guys. I was able to take on guys with better gear than me and even 3 v 1 at most situations too. I managed this by looking carefully at my character and what he can do to delay and fight others so I'm no noob before you even think of saying something like that. However I achieved all I can from WoW with PvP and PvE , it gradually gets tiring but still I'd say it was a good game while it lasted.
I just feel this game should be more into for PvP orientated more but also for those casual gamers to do more of that too instead of raiding for hours. People can casually PvP in different areas for those 15-30 minute scenarios for fun. Remember people do have real life as well so I'm sure there are gamers who want to introduce their family/friends or even loved ones to start playing along too just for fun and not for the griefing. Like some said if you truly want to enjoy causing others to lose their items fully from PvP then just look elsewhere because I definately dont want this to happen for Warhammer and I do enjoy PvP very much btw.
Originally posted by Gorblum I have to say that this topic has became like a flameboard to insult people it seems. How can you define a hardcore PvPer it seems hmmm.
Is it all because of a game mechanic to which people are hardcore at nicking other peoples items ?
I think WAR should offer multiple servers - the normal one for casual players, then the more 'hardcore' servers such as partial or full loot. Then a lot of arguments in this thread become mute as people have a choice...and i think this is what it all boils down to.
I can see what you are saying. As an adult who works full time and has a family, I would prolly not play a game with a full loot system. I just cannot justify wasting my money and time for something that could dissapear that fast. But who knows, we will just have to wait and see i guess. I was, and still am, a DAOC veteran; thus i have been really following and anticipating Warhammer:Online. I just hope they learned the lessons of balance for this go 'round ;-P . Oh yeah and if ya wanna call me a carebear, fine... But you should know i am a full contact fighter as my other hobby, so if you wantto have a toughness contest BRING IT ON ;-). I just hate you dang adolescents that have parents who let you live on your computer. I mean really, if i had all the time in theworld i would be "uber" too.
Who is more hardcore people who play a PvP game with full looting or the Guild Wars team that took place in the tournament with a $50,000 grand prize?
One the people who lost lost a few pretend items that are fairly easy to replace the other the losers lost out on $50,000. Any reasonable person must admit there was more on the line in that tournament than most people have on the line in most any pvp looting game.
I say the Guild Wars teams in the competition are more "hardcore" and yet that game has no item looting ... hmmmm.
And yet there is absolutely no way I would take looting out of Eve pvp. It would completely screw up the game.
Another good point, though why the heck anyone would put up 50k on a game is BEYOND me. But who says PVP and looting is the only definition of Hardcore. I used to play a game with a guy who had nothing but max lvl chars, with top gear and spec and everyhting. And when he DID PVP it was awecome to watch him work hehe... He just did not care for it as much. Not because he lost or anything (he won a LOT) just because he liked the PVE content better. It fit his schedule and everyhting more. And i woul dargue that he was THe BEST when it came to PVE ciontent in that game among all servers. He was seriously that good, and IMHO hardcore.
PVP is enjoyable but the idea of a open pvp full loot game being successful is a pipe dream. I've noticed supporters of that system to be quick to post and are generally hateful toward those with opposite opinions, but how many people are there that truly want full loot pvp in total. I would be suprised to see a game of that model get over 100k subs and can't really see growth.
People point to EVE but its not open pvp in reality, the smart player can avoid conflict by changing the course they take through space. Open pvp may be meaningful to some of you but there will always be those LEET guilds that torment and rape the player base to take what they want, and honestly what can be done if there are no safe places. To me reminds me of the South Park episode with the guy in his basement keeping them from accomplishing anything because of constant ganking.
PVP should be about how enjoyable the combat is, how much strategy is involved in winning a fight and what happens in the event that your side has a victory such as what Warhammer is proposing. I work 40 hours a week and run a business on the side and the idea of some griefer taking my stuff and causing me to have to basically do more work instead of enjoying myself is the exact opposite of what I look for in a game.
I respect others opinions but honestly I think many are overestimating how successful a completely open pvp/looting game would be. I hope you guys find the game for you but with many of you constantly tearing down those that don't agree with you I highly doubt it would be a community I would want to be part of. I experienced shadowbane and can honestly say the global chat was some of the worst I've ever seen, constant insults, arguments, flaming and the like. If this is the game that "hardcore" pvpers are looking for I say enjoy your niche title til its shut down for lack of the desired playerbase. O and just because someone doesn't want complete open pvp/looting doesn't make them a carebear, more likely they see the inherit flaws with that model of game.
Originally posted by gestalt11 Who is more hardcore people who play a PvP game with full looting or the Guild Wars team that took place in the tournament with a $50,000 grand prize?
One the people who lost lost a few pretend items that are fairly easy to replace the other the losers lost out on $50,000. Any reasonable person must admit there was more on the line in that tournament than most people have on the line in most any pvp looting game.
I say the Guild Wars teams in the competition are more "hardcore" and yet that game has no item looting ... hmmmm.
And yet there is absolutely no way I would take looting out of Eve pvp. It would completely screw up the game.
The argument's not about who's more hardcore or more softcore it's about what certain people enjoy, and in this case specifically whether WAR's system pleased a specific group.
People who enjoy PVP looting often enjoy the adrenaline rush of the PVP fights.
People who enjoy PVE games often enjoy the casual aspect of the game and the PVE side of things.
Playing games competitively or pro often turns the game into more of a chore or into an actual job rather than fun, trust me, I've been there.
And I also do boxing competitively, but I fail to see how this is relevant to the thread topic.
Originally posted by Myrten0881 Another good point, though why the heck anyone would put up 50k on a game is BEYOND me. But who says PVP and looting is the only definition of Hardcore. I used to play a game with a guy who had nothing but max lvl chars, with top gear and spec and everyhting. And when he DID PVP it was awecome to watch him work hehe... He just did not care for it as much. Not because he lost or anything (he won a LOT) just because he liked the PVE content better. It fit his schedule and everyhting more. And i woul dargue that he was THe BEST when it came to PVE ciontent in that game among all servers. He was seriously that good, and IMHO hardcore.
Money was put up by Anet with the torunament held in Taiwan as part of the release of factions. War Machine (korea) won the grand prize. Anet sees Guild Wars GvG as a competitive enterprise like soccer or football. They even have an Observer feature that lets any GW player watch each top 100 match via a moveable inviviable camera of the battlefield.
It is like a sport. Almost exactly like a sport really. It makes sense that Anet puts up money because they want GW to be a competitive sport-like event. They don't always do it, but it is something to sweeten the deal and increases the quality of competition just like happens at various types of sporting events from soccer to martial arts. The last Brazila Jiu-Jitsu tournament I went to charged the lower ranks to enter the tournament and then used that money to put up a grand prize for the black belt pro rounds and bring some fairly big names.
Personally I think GW should put some advertising in the oberserver mode, maybe 15 seconds worth before the match view loads, and use that to put in more torunament grand prizes. Just like what happens with pro football and soccer on TV. Use that cash flow to grow the competition.
Eve is like a war simulation. Guild Wars is like a sport. Looting not only fits but is necessary on one, and would be a mistake and really just pointless in the other. One is about competition the other is about conquering and control.
Neither one is more "hardcore". And if someone thinks sports aren't hardcore, go to a high school football game in Texas.
It's funny that the boards should come back to this topic. You see, the other day I was reading a short story by John Shirley called "In the Road." The story was basically about how we all turn away from horrible things and then act like we didn't see it coming when the shit hits the fan.
Anyway....
There's a scene in the story where this twenty something loser, that lives with his mom, is showing off his gaming skills to his younger cousin. Basically, the guy rigs his computer to a pneumatic bear trap that clamps down on his arm every time he gets killed in a deathmatch. That's real "risk = reward" mentality right there!
So how about all of you "hardcore" Pkers out there break out your toolboxes and actually CREATE some risk in these games you play? If you're really such badasses and all....
At the very least, it'll spare the rest of us the pain of witnessing your macho insecurity once your all dead.
i'd prefer the loot that was dropped was what the player was carrying, and he/she lost everything. it'd make PvP so much more exciting and rewarding. that won't happen unfortunately, because of all the carebears out there.. so we'll just have to make do with random loot...
Originally posted by gestalt11 ______________________________________________________________________________ Money was put up by Anet with the torunament held in Taiwan as part of the release of factions. War Machine (korea) won the grand prize. Anet sees Guild Wars GvG as a competitive enterprise like soccer or football. They even have an Observer feature that lets any GW player watch each top 100 match via a moveable inviviable camera of the battlefield.
It is like a sport. Almost exactly like a sport really. It makes sense that Anet puts up money because they want GW to be a competitive sport-like event. They don't always do it, but it is something to sweeten the deal and increases the quality of competition just like happens at various types of sporting events from soccer to martial arts. The last Brazila Jiu-Jitsu tournament I went to charged the lower ranks to enter the tournament and then used that money to put up a grand prize for the black belt pro rounds and bring some fairly big names.
Personally I think GW should put some advertising in the oberserver mode, maybe 15 seconds worth before the match view loads, and use that to put in more torunament grand prizes. Just like what happens with pro football and soccer on TV. Use that cash flow to grow the competition.
Eve is like a war simulation. Guild Wars is like a sport. Looting not only fits but is necessary on one, and would be a mistake and really just pointless in the other. One is about competition the other is about conquering and control.
Neither one is more "hardcore". And if someone thinks sports aren't hardcore, go to a high school football game in Texas.
Okay, then that i can see, i tought someone actually had a $50k stake in the winner or loser. In other i thgouth the losing team perhaps lost $50k... kinda odd that i woul dhave had that idea, (maybe i was too sleepy to think straight after a long day at work). In that case the $50k makes a lot of sense. And yes i played high-school ball in east texas hehe... i know exactly how hardcore that can be.
Oh yeah and to the guy that talked about how boxing or MMA like I do is not relevant, to me it is. Some dumb-ass that is gonna call me weak because he can sit behind a keyboard, basically be anonymous, and get off on killing someone because he LIVES on a game when the other doesn't and claim he is LEET or HARDCORE just doesn't sit right with me. Especially when i figure that this person is also some adolescent teen punk who is spoiled and does nohting with his life but stroke his own ego of LEETNESS.
Also thought the point about enjoyability was a good one as well. And i get that, I really do, but from a business perespective making your actual system liek that is harmful as it limits your potential subscriber base.
Comments
Then it's carebear for you, not for me. It's your opinion, I don't mind it. Though, personally I find it hard to say it's already carebear when it's still in alpha and you haven't played it yet?
Many things in the game can change, nonetheless. Don't judge before you've tried it. Maybe my opinion changes after trying it, but I'll give the game a shot.
max2008 - learn to read.
But it should be obvious that in a simulation type game like Eve losing stuff is actually imporat to the PvP. Causing you enemy to lose resources is part of how you take over a system. For example defense stations must be supplied. If you do not have looting you cannot use guerilla style warfare to deny them material and give yourself material.
Is grief a componenet of this stuff? Yes. But so are the acutal mechanics of warfare. Without looting there is no attirtion/gain mechanic.
For game like WAR I do not think this is necessary or even desirable. It is not a sim game like Eve. Unfotunately the problem is PvPer who don't know what they want or waht they are talking about. There is nothing wrong with Eve's way and there is nothing wrong with WAR's way. They are simply meant to accomplish different things.
It really is not hardcore vs. carebear. It is simulation game versus non-simulation game. WAR wil not be a war simulation. It is inherently play not sim. Eve is a sim. The people who complain about this stuff are complaining about lack of simulation like mechanics. They are just stroking their e-peens and indulgng in the "everyone who doesn't agree with me is a moron" trend when they say they are hardcore. If they think they are more hardcore than the top GvG players of Guild Wars then they are delusional. This had nothing to do with hardcore its about what people like and the whole point of the games. Some people want quick/fun action, others want realistic action. Some people want match play, others want a free for all simulation war.
Daoc has the best PvP RvR system of all current MMO and there's nothing to loot on body. Real pvp is about realm objective, not ganking. So i don't see why war hammer would be any different.
The additional loot is nice, but you should PvP for other reasons then that. (Accomplishing realm goals>>> ganking.
Disagree. I had much much more fun playing UO and AC1 Darktide than the PVP in DAOC.
And for all the carebears who keep whining about ganking and griefing in think the quote from the latest MMORPG article with the Darkfall dev put it best:
"Tasos Flambouras: Griefing makes an impact
in games not geared to deal with it. Darkfall is made for PvP. We're
sick and tired of the instant association of griefing with PvP. The PvP
community shouldn't constantly be discounted like that. There's a lot
of griefing going on in non PvP MMOs, like kill stealing, training,
camping, and when these same games enable limited PvP, it only gets
worse. Griefers in these games aren't accountable for their actions and
the victims can't do anything about it. Most of the complaints about
griefing come from these games."
Well... David
the Darkfall-dev said:
1."There's a lot of griefing going on in non PvP MMOs"
2."and when these same games enable limited PvP, it only gets worse."
after this, complete the following 2 sentences:
3. "when these games even enable open PvP..."
4. "when these games finally enable full looting..."
Did this guy say anything about ganking?
Give power to a normal human ...
Poor baby. Stick to WOW or hello kitty online, as you obviously have no idea about meaningful PVP and the MANY benefits brought on by knowing that you can die and lose your item's at any point.
heh getting someones gear is about ganking and griefing not about meaningful pvp. People that want full loot just want to grief and never will they ever enter a fight that is on equal terms. If they arent garanteed victory they will pass that target by while looking for another victim.
Meaningful pvp is thus
When you die ? when your comrades die... when you kill the enemy player what impact does it really have on the game ? Is a battle won or lost is a war going well or badly ? Is an objective lost or gained ? What impact did that battle have on the entire world or area ?
When it has an impact this is meaningfuil pvp and not what they drop.
Obviously you do not understand that full looting offers more than just 'loot', how about:
EMOTIONS! - yes, some good, some bad - but they are still there and not just one big safe grind
Real rewards/consequences
Crafters are sort after and in demand
Real politics with both individual and group alliances and foes
Viable endgame experience, unpredictable and exciting
Real sense of victory and defeat
Increased senses - alertness, perception and 'fear' - even boring travel has a new twist on it
Playing smart has rewards
Player trust
Tactics with meaning and purpose
Real consequences for your actions
Did i mention the adrenaline of PVP w/ looting. The sweaty palms, the pounding heart!
That's off the top of my head.
Obviously you carebears get killed a few times in these so called 'hardcore' games and drop a few items then run back to your 'PVE' servers - that's too bad.
Nice work, my young friend.
Why just post, when you can post AND insult.
so...why don´t you play RealLife if are in need of these points?
When i come home after a day of work, i just want to play, relax...not care if i die. I have consequences for my actions half of my day, just to name 2 of your wishes. Real friendships...lol.
EVEdiots, sorry.
When i come home after a day of work, i just want to play, relax...not care if i die.
Good, stick to WOW.
Is it all because of a game mechanic to which people are hardcore at nicking other peoples items ?
Is it because someone plays the game longer to get better gear than others and so he's hardcore?
Is it because someone able to take on many people at once on his own ?
Okay what ever it is, I wish to point out that this game is meant for fun in Warhammer and I honestly wont see this fun for many people if this game turned out that people are meant to lose ALL their gear for dieing. I feel this game is meant for fun so that people are meant to co-operate and win objectives to move on to opposition lands e.g. Capital and then take out that Enemy King/Lord or whatever to gain great rewards because of getting there.
I am suprised to hear people say your a care bear or a zero risk item person all because they dont want to lose their gear from dieing that one time. Lets put it this way, not everyone can always be prepared to lose at some point in the game. What if people had a real life issue , what if people just wanted to casually play , does that mean people shouldnt play this game if this game had Full item loss? I honestly dont see an explanation to help a game grow for years to come if people have to spend time to get items of what they lost . Sure there are exceptions for games out there that do this e.g. Eve online and others but truly Warhammer shouldnt fall into this category for a true RvR game for many people that are looking forward to.
Oh if your going to call somone like me a WoW noob with this kind of suggestion then your going to make me laugh then. Cause WoW although there are people who think ITS just for kids then I guess they may of had bad experiences in it or just didnt feel it was fun at all thats all for them. But for me , well I did enjoy getting to level 60 and from there even being in a small Guild, I had no choice but to PvP for good items and I worked with the rubbish things and been ganked but I didnt mind cause I learnt ways to counter that and pulled off great combinations to tackle multiple guys. I was able to take on guys with better gear than me and even 3 v 1 at most situations too. I managed this by looking carefully at my character and what he can do to delay and fight others so I'm no noob before you even think of saying something like that. However I achieved all I can from WoW with PvP and PvE , it gradually gets tiring but still I'd say it was a good game while it lasted.
I just feel this game should be more into for PvP orientated more but also for those casual gamers to do more of that too instead of raiding for hours. People can casually PvP in different areas for those 15-30 minute scenarios for fun. Remember people do have real life as well so I'm sure there are gamers who want to introduce their family/friends or even loved ones to start playing along too just for fun and not for the griefing. Like some said if you truly want to enjoy causing others to lose their items fully from PvP then just look elsewhere because I definately dont want this to happen for Warhammer and I do enjoy PvP very much btw.
one for casual players, then the more 'hardcore' servers such as partial or
full loot. Then a lot of arguments in this thread become mute as people have a choice...and i think this is what it all boils down to.
I can see what you are saying. As an adult who works full time and has a family, I would prolly not play a game with a full loot system. I just cannot justify wasting my money and time for something that could dissapear that fast. But who knows, we will just have to wait and see i guess. I was, and still am, a DAOC veteran; thus i have been really following and anticipating Warhammer:Online. I just hope they learned the lessons of balance for this go 'round ;-P . Oh yeah and if ya wanna call me a carebear, fine... But you should know i am a full contact fighter as my other hobby, so if you wantto have a toughness contest BRING IT ON ;-). I just hate you dang adolescents that have parents who let you live on your computer. I mean really, if i had all the time in theworld i would be "uber" too.
I REJECT your reality and substitute my own!
One the people who lost lost a few pretend items that are fairly easy to replace the other the losers lost out on $50,000. Any reasonable person must admit there was more on the line in that tournament than most people have on the line in most any pvp looting game.
I say the Guild Wars teams in the competition are more "hardcore" and yet that game has no item looting ... hmmmm.
And yet there is absolutely no way I would take looting out of Eve pvp. It would completely screw up the game.
I REJECT your reality and substitute my own!
People point to EVE but its not open pvp in reality, the smart player can avoid conflict by changing the course they take through space. Open pvp may be meaningful to some of you but there will always be those LEET guilds that torment and rape the player base to take what they want, and honestly what can be done if there are no safe places. To me reminds me of the South Park episode with the guy in his basement keeping them from accomplishing anything because of constant ganking.
PVP should be about how enjoyable the combat is, how much strategy is involved in winning a fight and what happens in the event that your side has a victory such as what Warhammer is proposing. I work 40 hours a week and run a business on the side and the idea of some griefer taking my stuff and causing me to have to basically do more work instead of enjoying myself is the exact opposite of what I look for in a game.
I respect others opinions but honestly I think many are overestimating how successful a completely open pvp/looting game would be. I hope you guys find the game for you but with many of you constantly tearing down those that don't agree with you I highly doubt it would be a community I would want to be part of. I experienced shadowbane and can honestly say the global chat was some of the worst I've ever seen, constant insults, arguments, flaming and the like. If this is the game that "hardcore" pvpers are looking for I say enjoy your niche title til its shut down for lack of the desired playerbase. O and just because someone doesn't want complete open pvp/looting doesn't make them a carebear, more likely they see the inherit flaws with that model of game.
To each his own
Peace
The argument's not about who's more hardcore or more
softcore it's about what certain people enjoy, and in this case specifically whether WAR's system pleased a specific group.
People who enjoy PVP looting often enjoy the adrenaline
rush of the PVP fights.
People who enjoy PVE games often enjoy the casual aspect
of the game and the PVE side of things.
Playing games competitively or pro often turns the game
into more of a chore or into an actual job rather than fun, trust me, I've been
there.
And I also do boxing competitively, but I fail to see how this is relevant to the thread topic.
Money was put up by Anet with the torunament held in Taiwan as part of the release of factions. War Machine (korea) won the grand prize. Anet sees Guild Wars GvG as a competitive enterprise like soccer or football. They even have an Observer feature that lets any GW player watch each top 100 match via a moveable inviviable camera of the battlefield.
It is like a sport. Almost exactly like a sport really. It makes sense that Anet puts up money because they want GW to be a competitive sport-like event. They don't always do it, but it is something to sweeten the deal and increases the quality of competition just like happens at various types of sporting events from soccer to martial arts. The last Brazila Jiu-Jitsu tournament I went to charged the lower ranks to enter the tournament and then used that money to put up a grand prize for the black belt pro rounds and bring some fairly big names.
Personally I think GW should put some advertising in the oberserver mode, maybe 15 seconds worth before the match view loads, and use that to put in more torunament grand prizes. Just like what happens with pro football and soccer on TV. Use that cash flow to grow the competition.
Eve is like a war simulation. Guild Wars is like a sport. Looting not only fits but is necessary on one, and would be a mistake and really just pointless in the other. One is about competition the other is about conquering and control.
Neither one is more "hardcore". And if someone thinks sports aren't hardcore, go to a high school football game in Texas.
An anonymous asshole wrote:
Risk = Reward
It's funny that the boards should come back to this topic. You see, the other day I was reading a short story by John Shirley called "In the Road." The story was basically about how we all turn away from horrible things and then act like we didn't see it coming when the shit hits the fan.
Anyway....
There's a scene in the story where this twenty something loser, that lives with his mom, is showing off his gaming skills to his younger cousin. Basically, the guy rigs his computer to a pneumatic bear trap that clamps down on his arm every time he gets killed in a deathmatch. That's real "risk = reward" mentality right there!
So how about all of you "hardcore" Pkers out there break out your toolboxes and actually CREATE some risk in these games you play? If you're really such badasses and all....
At the very least, it'll spare the rest of us the pain of witnessing your macho insecurity once your all dead.
no but this will
www.thronesofchaos.com
Give me a true hardcore server, (aka if you die your character is
deleted) then you wont give a rats ass about what happened to your
stuff.
UO pre tramel was for carebears.
sod the hardcore, sounds good to me.
Oh yeah and to the guy that talked about how boxing or MMA like I do is not relevant, to me it is. Some dumb-ass that is gonna call me weak because he can sit behind a keyboard, basically be anonymous, and get off on killing someone because he LIVES on a game when the other doesn't and claim he is LEET or HARDCORE just doesn't sit right with me. Especially when i figure that this person is also some adolescent teen punk who is spoiled and does nohting with his life but stroke his own ego of LEETNESS.
Also thought the point about enjoyability was a good one as well. And i get that, I really do, but from a business perespective making your actual system liek that is harmful as it limits your potential subscriber base.
I REJECT your reality and substitute my own!