Originally posted by forest-nl Lol how some have ideas about what pvp should be so funny. Ganking is also apart of pvp always is always will be if you dont like it your just a carebear who wanne be left alone in safezones so nobody can kill you:D Open pvp with total freedom and fulloot is best way for mmo that is pvp oriented. players make politics on server not game it self. But dont get me wrong if you dont like it nobody force you to play such a game but dont come with its for griefers or silly 12 year old gankers thats bullshit.
ah the hypocrisy ... gotta love when someone doesn't want to be insulted and called a 12 year old ganker/griefer. yet turns right around and calls anyone that doesn't agree with his playstyle a carebear.
sounds like something a 12 year old would do ... so maybe the original insult fits.
have fun in darkfall, call me in about 5 years when it comes out. Warhammer online will probably be out for about 4 years then, I will be looking for a new game.
I'm not sure where all these "hardcore" PvPers come from. If it isn't 1 death=dead and all gear lost, it isn't hardcore.
Now, I like risk in PvP (the WoW res zerg is silly), but I'm not big on true hardcore either. In Diablo 2, the death of the few hardcore characters I tried usually resulted in a several month break from the game.
I would probably play a really well designed game that had full PvP looting, but I don't think there is a single company right now that is even close to pulling it off. Full loot in WoW would be stupid, but it would really work in a crafter based game like the old SWG. I liked the money drop in PvP in EQ2, but then everyone just stops carrying money around.
I doubt anyone will do it any time soon, so I don't even know why I'm talking about it.
Originally posted by osc8r Is the same saying that you will have the same feeling and excitement on a poker table where they play with playmoney as on a poker table where they play with real money.
It's ironic when 'hardcores' say stuff like this, since they're claiming to be oh-so-tough for playing a game that only puts play money at risk, not real money. Your 'hardcore' game is a play money table. And your allegedly "PVP" game is actually a PVE grind game, in which players overall spend far more time PVE grinding for gear that gets taken/destroyed than actually engaging in PVP.
Poker isn't like PVP in an MMORPG anyway. In poker, you decide how much to risk at any one time. When you play, your losses are limited to what you choose to bet, and you only bet when you think you have a chance to win. Another player can only only win from me as much as he is willing to risk himself; even if you go all-in against my $100 with your $50, you can't take all of it.
But in the gank-and-loot PVP that hardcore players clamor for, it is completely different. There, I don't decide how much to risk based on developments in the fight, I am always risking what I'm carrying. The 'hardcore' ganker is free to use junk gear to attack me, yet can win rewards far beyond what he's risking. This gets especially true in the 'hardcore' player's favorite attack, ganking someone engaged in moving their stuff or gathering materials.
Its not about reward realy.. Its about the feeling of that posibility, that you can lose or gain everything.
Except that 'hardcore' PVPers don't want that, they just want a system where they can risk little, gank someone, and take their stuff. Start talking about real risk of losing everything, like permadeath, and the hardcores shiver in terror.
Originally posted by David99 I think WAR should offer multiple servers - the normal one for casual players, then the more 'hardcore' servers such as partial or full loot. Then a lot of arguments in this thread become mute as people have a choice...and i think this is what it all boils down to.
And do you have any evidence that they would make more money by offering such a server than by not? It costs man-hours to create a completely new looting system for the game, and money to run a server. What makes you think that they'd get remotely near enough sales/subs to make a profit on such a server, especially when the 'hardcore' PVPers want FFA PVP, not faction PVP like WAR will have?
Originally posted by Myrten0881 I can see what you are saying. As an adult who works full time and has a family, I would prolly not play a game with a full loot system.
Right, you'd want a real PVP game, not a PVE grind game like the 'hardcore' crowd prefers. Your idea of a PVP game is one in which people spend most of their time fighting other players, not one in which players spend most of their time PVE grinding in order to cover losses.
Originally posted by Pantastic Originally posted by Myrten0881 I can see what you are saying. As an adult who works full time and has a family, I would prolly not play a game with a full loot system.
Right, you'd want a real PVP game, not a PVE grind game like the 'hardcore' crowd prefers. Your idea of a PVP game is one in which people spend most of their time fighting other players, not one in which players spend most of their time PVE grinding in order to cover losses.
I know that I'd be freaking terrified of full-loot pvp. I already have trouble getting what I can get in games. Last thing I want is some guy with more time to play ganking me and robbing it. The rich'd get richer and the poor'd get poorer. Kinda like a primitive form of capitalism.
I'm sure there are people who get a kick out of it, a sort of 'Thrill of the hunt'. For them it's not fun when they killed something without a decent trophy to hang up on the wall. Quite reasonable reason, it almost makes me want to take up hunting (Mostly because I plainly stink at pvp on mmo's.)
Have you guys ever played a hardcore pvp game? Your character doesn't matter that much so it wouldn't be a pve grind game. Items were extremely easy to replace. Especially once you were good you would have a modest store of armor and equipment. In UO, my friend a newb char and these guys came and attacked our house so he filled up on explosion potions and me and him went and killed them. Even though his char couldn't fight with enough skill he could still beat one of these multipeX GM guys. UO required skill if you lost then you were less skilled or unlucky. It was also easy to get away from people if you wanted to. You can make excuses like you don't have time to play but, in reality it probably comes down to you were less skilled. When I started out I didn't get mad when someone killed me. It just made me want to get better so I could beat them. Also, later on once I became if I died I would rarely be looted because I put up a good fight and didn't whine and call them names. That's a sure way to get someone to grief you is whine or call them names when they kill you.
Those guild wars players probably are from hardcore games. I would guess. I know lots of guilds that moved to GW simply because there was nothing better. There are people who earn X00,000 a year from playing games. Look at the professional gaming leagues. None of them include MMORPG's because they usually have very little skill nowadays.
Back to the original topic I don't really see how someone dropping a item they didn't even have makes any sense. Kind of reminds of the rat carrying a treasure chest or a sword. Not exactly the same but still. It makes no sense. More importantly, from the videos I have seen from WAR the fighting looks boring as hell. Reminds me of the fighting when I was in the DnL beta. Don't know why anyone would want to play that for pvm or pvp.
Your mind is like a parachute, it's only useful when it's open. Don't forget, you can use the block function on trolls.
I have to say that this has become rediculous in terms of people feeling this game should have full loot and not have random drops from people for items. From what I have mentioned before, I truly feel this game wouldnt be fun if Full loot was in this game. People would not even try to think of their objectives anymore in scenarios if this was applied because people would be rather concerned of losing all their gear instead. Those that just rather kill people to make others lose items would be those people mentioned around in these posters about I want full loot in this game more than likely and dont care about their objectives. Basically this game would end up being about ganking to kill people and ruin others rather than care for objectives . Hence therefore the developers of this game would of wasted all their time to create different objectives because people only would care about killing over and over to grief or get the thrill out of others losing their items. I truly see no point in that and would feel scenarios and victory points in this game alongside the Campaign would be wasted work compared to just sticking a full loot system in this game ontop of it. So there you have it and if you dont like how the system works in this game then this Warhammer Online is not for you guys who feel Full loot to be applied Amen.
Originally posted by Entreri28 Have you guys ever played a hardcore pvp game? Your character doesn't matter that much so it wouldn't be a pve grind game.
OK, so what specific game are you talking about? It's clearly not EVE or UO where players overall spend far more time PVE grinding than PVP fighting. EVE is pretty extreme in that case, where the reward for holding territory against other players is more efficient PVE grinding. Of course, this begs the question - why is it such a big deal to be able to take something trivial to replace from another player? How 'hardcore' is it if no one loses anything of value to them, just trivial-to-replace junk?
Comments
ah the hypocrisy ... gotta love when someone doesn't want to be insulted and called a 12 year old ganker/griefer. yet turns right around and calls anyone that doesn't agree with his playstyle a carebear.
sounds like something a 12 year old would do ... so maybe the original insult fits.
have fun in darkfall, call me in about 5 years when it comes out. Warhammer online will probably be out for about 4 years then, I will be looking for a new game.
I'm not sure where all these "hardcore" PvPers come from. If it isn't 1 death=dead and all gear lost, it isn't hardcore.
Now, I like risk in PvP (the WoW res zerg is silly), but I'm not big on true hardcore either. In Diablo 2, the death of the few hardcore characters I tried usually resulted in a several month break from the game.
I would probably play a really well designed game that had full PvP looting, but I don't think there is a single company right now that is even close to pulling it off. Full loot in WoW would be stupid, but it would really work in a crafter based game like the old SWG. I liked the money drop in PvP in EQ2, but then everyone just stops carrying money around.
I doubt anyone will do it any time soon, so I don't even know why I'm talking about it.
It's ironic when 'hardcores' say stuff like this, since they're claiming to be oh-so-tough for playing a game that only puts play money at risk, not real money. Your 'hardcore' game is a play money table. And your allegedly "PVP" game is actually a PVE grind game, in which players overall spend far more time PVE grinding for gear that gets taken/destroyed than actually engaging in PVP.
Poker isn't like PVP in an MMORPG anyway. In poker, you decide how much to risk at any one time. When you play, your losses are limited to what you choose to bet, and you only bet when you think you have a chance to win. Another player can only only win from me as much as he is willing to risk himself; even if you go all-in against my $100 with your $50, you can't take all of it.
But in the gank-and-loot PVP that hardcore players clamor for, it is completely different. There, I don't decide how much to risk based on developments in the fight, I am always risking what I'm carrying. The 'hardcore' ganker is free to use junk gear to attack me, yet can win rewards far beyond what he's risking. This gets especially true in the 'hardcore' player's favorite attack, ganking someone engaged in moving their stuff or gathering materials.
Except that 'hardcore' PVPers don't want that, they just want a system where they can risk little, gank someone, and take their stuff. Start talking about real risk of losing everything, like permadeath, and the hardcores shiver in terror.
And do you have any evidence that they would make more money by offering such a server than by not? It costs man-hours to create a completely new looting system for the game, and money to run a server. What makes you think that they'd get remotely near enough sales/subs to make a profit on such a server, especially when the 'hardcore' PVPers want FFA PVP, not faction PVP like WAR will have?
Right, you'd want a real PVP game, not a PVE grind game like the 'hardcore' crowd prefers. Your idea of a PVP game is one in which people spend most of their time fighting other players, not one in which players spend most of their time PVE grinding in order to cover losses.
All it needs is a toggle on the character interface to selcet fully lootable as an option.
A conditional status so that you can set your toon to be fully lootable by any other toon set to fully lootable.
Character names could be displayed in a different colour for each setting.
.
In this way the full loot crowd can peacefully co exist with the carebears, on the same servers in the same games.
Right,
you'd want a real PVP game, not a PVE grind game like the 'hardcore'
crowd prefers. Your idea of a PVP game is one in which people spend
most of their time fighting other players, not one in which players
spend most of their time PVE grinding in order to cover losses.
Preach it brotha.... AMEN!
I know that I'd be freaking terrified of full-loot pvp. I already have trouble getting what I can get in games. Last thing I want is some guy with more time to play ganking me and robbing it. The rich'd get richer and the poor'd get poorer. Kinda like a primitive form of capitalism.
I'm sure there are people who get a kick out of it, a sort of 'Thrill of the hunt'. For them it's not fun when they killed something without a decent trophy to hang up on the wall. Quite reasonable reason, it almost makes me want to take up hunting (Mostly because I plainly stink at pvp on mmo's.)
Have you guys ever played a hardcore pvp game? Your character doesn't matter that much so it wouldn't be a pve grind game. Items were extremely easy to replace. Especially once you were good you would have a modest store of armor and equipment. In UO, my friend a newb char and these guys came and attacked our house so he filled up on explosion potions and me and him went and killed them. Even though his char couldn't fight with enough skill he could still beat one of these multipeX GM guys. UO required skill if you lost then you were less skilled or unlucky. It was also easy to get away from people if you wanted to. You can make excuses like you don't have time to play but, in reality it probably comes down to you were less skilled. When I started out I didn't get mad when someone killed me. It just made me want to get better so I could beat them. Also, later on once I became if I died I would rarely be looted because I put up a good fight and didn't whine and call them names. That's a sure way to get someone to grief you is whine or call them names when they kill you.
Those guild wars players probably are from hardcore games. I would guess. I know lots of guilds that moved to GW simply because there was nothing better. There are people who earn X00,000 a year from playing games. Look at the professional gaming leagues. None of them include MMORPG's because they usually have very little skill nowadays.
Back to the original topic I don't really see how someone dropping a item they didn't even have makes any sense. Kind of reminds of the rat carrying a treasure chest or a sword. Not exactly the same but still. It makes no sense. More importantly, from the videos I have seen from WAR the fighting looks boring as hell. Reminds me of the fighting when I was in the DnL beta. Don't know why anyone would want to play that for pvm or pvp.
Your mind is like a parachute, it's only useful when it's open.
Don't forget, you can use the block function on trolls.
OK, so what specific game are you talking about? It's clearly not EVE or UO where players overall spend far more time PVE grinding than PVP fighting. EVE is pretty extreme in that case, where the reward for holding territory against other players is more efficient PVE grinding. Of course, this begs the question - why is it such a big deal to be able to take something trivial to replace from another player? How 'hardcore' is it if no one loses anything of value to them, just trivial-to-replace junk?