i cant really say on this one...most of the listed games look good BUT looks dont mean anything. i think the majority of those games will suck in the end.
Most of the games up there are offering many things that are completely new or are rare on the market right now. The exception is LoTRo, because it is a lot like WoW in its gameplay. You collect and do quests until max level. The only new thing is monster pvp and not many people really care much about that in this game.
So why not Vanguard? It is true that Vanguard will be a repeat of EQ with the exception of sea warfare, which IMO is pretty huge. But there are true fans of EQ style that won't play a dumbed down version by WoW and don't like the lower quality version of EQ2. They are playing a very old EQ and are ready for a newer version of the game. So Vanguard will be less of a dissapointment than LoTRo, which offers more of the WoW same.
But thats what i meant...every games is either a WoW clone or a EQ clone...im just waiting for pure originality cuz in my eyes those 2 games didnt really pave the way for anything, sure they are good games but i think something bigger and better will come along and be a true MMORPG
I actually voted for Stargate, but for just one reason--because the show was canceled and the game is far away from release. It's doubtful there will be any more Stargate movies, and with the show gone the fanbase can only dwindle with time (unless it pulls a Star Trek, but I think not). By the time the game comes out it will have missed its window of opportunity.
In some ways, LotR also has missed its window, though a "The Hobbit" movie could reel them back in. However, there's also the risk, much as I'd hate to see it happen, of a Matrix Reloaded/Revolutions effect if the movie's bad--killing much of the potential audience for the game. Still, I think in terms of potential and desire, LotR was high on many people's lists but beginning with the selection of Turbine, many of us had a bad feeling about the end result.
Vanguard has some promising aspects, but is it really much different than the games that are already out or, even worse, have already come out and then died? I love the idea of less instancing--but that has its own can of worms and if that's really all that's being offered, it's not much.
Warhammer is difficult to comment on--it could be great or could be a dog. So much of the game depends on whether people continue to see it as a WoW clone, despite the historical timeline (and lets face it, Warhammer may have been first with the original game, but WoW was first in the online space and that's what we're talking about now and what people will be judging. They will not be comparing it to table-top miniatures gaming or computer games from the '80s and '90s). This title's success is going to come down to its pvp.
Star Trek Online is one IP that's mostly immune to the usual IP problems I think because its fanbase is large, diverse, and old--that is, it's already weathered bad movies and bad shows and bad games and has experienced quite a few different takes on the Star Trek universe. Some of the basic concept of the shows lends themselves well to an mmo (away parties, mix of crafting and combat, instancing via transporters, etc.). But one crucial concept of the show can't really be present with technology that we have today, and that's exploration. Remember those words--"Boldly go where no man [or "one" in ST:NG] has gone before." That's going to be hard to do in an mmo in the first place. The Star Wars universe has a lot of planets and places, but oddly enough, most of the action revolves around the same few places. Star Trek, however, rarely visited the same place twice. That will be a mighty feat to duplicate in an mmo--to gives players that feeling of "where no man has gone before."
Age of Conan is one I'm very much looking forward to and has some new ways of doing things in terms of its combat. At the same time, I'm not going to be that disappointed if it doesn't live up to expectations for some reason--maybe because I'm not a big fan of the original concept (I read the original books ages ago, and they were fun, but they're not great literature). But unless they change things drastically for the worse, I plan on getting that one soon after release.
As for the other games, they all seem interesting, but not much different than what we've seen before. Were they coming out two years ago, they'd seem great. Now we very much want things to evolve with our games.
Have many of you noticed how short the list for "Games in Development" is? I think we're headed into a big period of consolidation and death for the mmo industry. A large component of an mmo is the "massively multiplayer" part. It's hard for these smaller games to get the initial publicity for a big crowd, and it's tough for any game to take much of the population from larger games for long (people try the news games and then return). I think we're going to end up with a few leaders in different categories (maybe fantasy, superhero, sci-fi, historical or maybe more along the lines of pve, pvp, rvr, etc).
I'm still surprised that there hasn't been more variety in genres in mmos--that is, no horror, no time travel, very few historical (only WWII Online?) or superhero. So maybe in addition to the category leaders we'll have some niche leaders such as EVE and others-to-be-developed like Pirates of the Burning Sea. For a small company, niche is the way to go. Games like Darkfall simply are too ambitious for small companies--they take so long to come out that people get upset or lose interest. Even niche games take a very long time to develop properly--and the gaming audience has become much less forgiving of an "incomplete" game being released.
Anyway, there are two sides to everything (at least two sides)--and its only fair to discuss the negative as well as the positive. Games are like food: no single game will feed you forever, they are often better in memory than in fact, variety is nice even if I don't take advantage of it, and every person has their own tastes.
Apply lemon juice and candle flame here to reveal secret message.
LOTRO, damn i was so excited that an LOTR mmo was launching and i was doubly excited when i got selected for closed beta....but then wham, it all went kaboom when i logged in to a DDO interface and character control. well good going turbine.
I seriously hope to god that ST:O is a much better, if not the best atleast a average game.
GREAT analysis of all the games mentioned. But i will give big props to the dudes making ST:O because they are attempting to do something that all us MMORPG fans deemed impossible. They know that they must make the in-game universe endless to make that game become great and sell alot....i just hope that they do it right..
In case it was missed somehow, Thrones of Chaos should have been on the poll. That's my #1 pick for rapid failure. With Darkfall as a possible #2 failure wise, I'd say even the worst of the rest of those listed will manage to at least manage a bare minimum of a subscriber base to limp along for awhile.
Originally posted by 0over0 I actually voted for Stargate, but for just one reason--because the show was canceled and the game is far away from release. It's doubtful there will be any more Stargate movies, and with the show gone the fanbase can only dwindle with time (unless it pulls a Star Trek, but I think not). By the time the game comes out it will have missed its window of opportunity. In some ways, LotR also has missed its window, though a "The Hobbit" movie could reel them back in. However, there's also the risk, much as I'd hate to see it happen, of a Matrix Reloaded/Revolutions effect if the movie's bad--killing much of the potential audience for the game. Still, I think in terms of potential and desire, LotR was high on many people's lists but beginning with the selection of Turbine, many of us had a bad feeling about the end result. Vanguard has some promising aspects, but is it really much different than the games that are already out or, even worse, have already come out and then died? I love the idea of less instancing--but that has its own can of worms and if that's really all that's being offered, it's not much. Warhammer is difficult to comment on--it could be great or could be a dog. So much of the game depends on whether people continue to see it as a WoW clone, despite the historical timeline (and lets face it, Warhammer may have been first with the original game, but WoW was first in the online space and that's what we're talking about now and what people will be judging. They will not be comparing it to table-top miniatures gaming or computer games from the '80s and '90s). This title's success is going to come down to its pvp. Star Trek Online is one IP that's mostly immune to the usual IP problems I think because its fanbase is large, diverse, and old--that is, it's already weathered bad movies and bad shows and bad games and has experienced quite a few different takes on the Star Trek universe. Some of the basic concept of the shows lends themselves well to an mmo (away parties, mix of crafting and combat, instancing via transporters, etc.). But one crucial concept of the show can't really be present with technology that we have today, and that's exploration. Remember those words--"Boldly go where no man [or "one" in ST:NG] has gone before." That's going to be hard to do in an mmo in the first place. The Star Wars universe has a lot of planets and places, but oddly enough, most of the action revolves around the same few places. Star Trek, however, rarely visited the same place twice. That will be a mighty feat to duplicate in an mmo--to gives players that feeling of "where no man has gone before." Age of Conan is one I'm very much looking forward to and has some new ways of doing things in terms of its combat. At the same time, I'm not going to be that disappointed if it doesn't live up to expectations for some reason--maybe because I'm not a big fan of the original concept (I read the original books ages ago, and they were fun, but they're not great literature). But unless they change things drastically for the worse, I plan on getting that one soon after release. As for the other games, they all seem interesting, but not much different than what we've seen before. Were they coming out two years ago, they'd seem great. Now we very much want things to evolve with our games. Have many of you noticed how short the list for "Games in Development" is? I think we're headed into a big period of consolidation and death for the mmo industry. A large component of an mmo is the "massively multiplayer" part. It's hard for these smaller games to get the initial publicity for a big crowd, and it's tough for any game to take much of the population from larger games for long (people try the news games and then return). I think we're going to end up with a few leaders in different categories (maybe fantasy, superhero, sci-fi, historical or maybe more along the lines of pve, pvp, rvr, etc). I'm still surprised that there hasn't been more variety in genres in mmos--that is, no horror, no time travel, very few historical (only WWII Online?) or superhero. So maybe in addition to the category leaders we'll have some niche leaders such as EVE and others-to-be-developed like Pirates of the Burning Sea. For a small company, niche is the way to go. Games like Darkfall simply are too ambitious for small companies--they take so long to come out that people get upset or lose interest. Even niche games take a very long time to develop properly--and the gaming audience has become much less forgiving of an "incomplete" game being released. Anyway, there are two sides to everything (at least two sides)--and its only fair to discuss the negative as well as the positive. Games are like food: no single game will feed you forever, they are often better in memory than in fact, variety is nice even if I don't take advantage of it, and every person has their own tastes.
Nice overview.. however, the list for games in development is hardly conclusive. There are 2 superhero games on the way: DC and Marvel. SOE has the DC license which will probably be the doom of the license as smelly is in charge of it, and we all know how competent he has proven himself over the past. The Marvel license will most likely be an xbox360 and windows vista title with cryptic studios working on it. Hopefully it will be more than City of Heroes/Villains. COH/COV had great customization but generally, at least for me, the game got old and boring really fast.
Lets see, Bioware has their mystery mmo. Who knows what the setting for that will be. Sure there are rumors of SWG2 or KOTOR online but it could be anything from a dnd mmo to a transformers mmo lol. Peter Jackson has a game studio now that is working on some mystery mmo and there is still Raph Koster who is either working with a company we already know or is working on something on his own, but it is confirmed that he is working on a secret mmo project.
So there alone are at least 5 more mmo's and not to mention the new announcement that relic is working on something so make that 6. The lack of news about these doesnt mean they dont exist and that many others may or may not be in production. But like what was said in the Bioware interview, I think it was Vogel maybe not, they dont dare go into too much info about what they are working on because other companies out there will latch onto what sounds cool and beat them to market with it. Look at SOE and SWG... a couple mmo's are announced with a twitch based gameplay so SOE slaps one on top of swg with no testing or anything and forced it out on its subscriber base, which in turn ran for the hills.
every MMO player has expectations and wishes for the ideal mmo game, but ive yet to see one fill everyones checkboxes and most players compomise one thing or another and just play certain games
Cant wait for the "uber" mmo to be released, making its player base happy - every one in development has the potential to be so lets hope!
Devs take all the good leave out the bad and learn from previous mmo mistakes PLEASE!
Hmm, one big problem with predicting the most dissapointing game. People have to think it will do well before release.
I personally feel Vanguard will have trouble living up to the hype though.
No man is an island, entire of itself; every man is a piece of the continent, a part of the main. any man's death diminishes me, because I am involved in mankind, and therefore never send to know for whom the bell tolls; it tolls for thee. Hemingway
Well vanguard I suspect will disappoint many people that were hedging all their hopes on it. But for some, like myself, never really cared for vanguard, what they were planning, and whether or not it succeeds
I think a lot of people looking forward to AOC who say 'Ohh, an M rating, that means only mature adults' are going to be sorely disappointed, I think the M rating is more likely to attract the 'LOL, boobies' and 'Blood ROX' crowd. Especially since there's no real way to tell how old player's are, just that they have a credit card.
Good point about various mmos that are being worked on that aren't listed here and are basically being kept as stealthy black ops. That, too, says something about the state of mmos, though. They say it's because they don't want other companies beating them to the punch, but it might be more that the less the potential players know, the less they will be disappointed at release.
Word of mouth is proving to be very pivotal for mmos--being such a community-oriented gaming genre, it makes sense. Communities can easily make or break a game, and maybe even a developer if they don't make real efforts to change their ways when they have a negative reputation.
It's true that a game would have to be hyped first before it could be a disappointment on release. That's why, for me, many of those games can't be disappointing--I'm not expecting anything from them anyway. The game I would probably be most hyped about would be Bioware's. Given that, I'm glad they're keeping it under wraps so I can't get too caught up in what they're doing. So far, they've put out great products without having their fans "watch them work."
The upcoming supers situation is a bit strange to me. Essentially, a developer has agreed to make its own competition. Regardless of how they spin it, I can't see it any other way. It will be interesting to see how that turns out. Though, in the end, maybe it will be no different than when a company makes, say, an EQII to complement their EQI.
Apply lemon juice and candle flame here to reveal secret message.
Turbine will screw up another great license with Lord of the Rings and bring their MMO record to 1 - 3 (AC was great, AC2 was a bomb, DDO is a bomb, and LotR will be a bomb).
Originally posted by Blurr I've been saying it for months but nobody's really been listening to me, lol. LOTRO is a huge disappointment unless you're a hardcore LOTR fan. It's gonna be a huge disappointment the way DDO was a huge disappointment for much of the community. From a general MMO players standpoint, the game just doesn't have anything to offer. Turbine's pooched another game, their 3rd in a row. Maybe it's time people started seeing that AC1 was just a fluke, they got lucky in their timing. Maybe it's time Turbine gave up making games.
I completely agree. AC was such a great game I hope when no one returns Turbine's calls after they screw up the LotR license they remake the original Asheron's Call with very similiar mechanics, classes, items, etc. but with a new graphics and better PvP.
Originally posted by Pantastic I think a lot of people looking forward to AOC who say 'Ohh, an M rating, that means only mature adults' are going to be sorely disappointed, I think the M rating is more likely to attract the 'LOL, boobies' and 'Blood ROX' crowd. Especially since there's no real way to tell how old player's are, just that they have a credit card.
Roleplaying servers FTW.
I never ever roleplay, but I go on RP servers in almost every mmo I play just because there aren't as much retards running around.
Originally posted by Blurr I've been saying it for months but nobody's really been listening to me, lol. LOTRO is a huge disappointment unless you're a hardcore LOTR fan. It's gonna be a huge disappointment the way DDO was a huge disappointment for much of the community. From a general MMO players standpoint, the game just doesn't have anything to offer. Turbine's pooched another game, their 3rd in a row. Maybe it's time people started seeing that AC1 was just a fluke, they got lucky in their timing. Maybe it's time Turbine gave up making games.
The only reason why AC1 wasn't a fluke is because Turbine bought AC1 from someone else. AC2, DDO, and soon LOTRO.... strike 3. Seriously, DDO and LOTRO and they botch both so bad they'll be nothing more than a niche game in the U.S. The sad part is, Turbine will sell distribuition rights to companies in the Far East and laugh all the way to the bank.
Fear not fanbois, we are not trolls, let's take off your tin foil hat and learn what VAPORWARE is:
"Vaporware is a term used to describe a software or hardware product that is announced by a developer well in advance of release, but which then fails to emerge after having well exceeded the period of development time that was initially claimed or would normally be expected for the development cycle of a similar product."
I think all these MMos seem interesting and im willing to try a few of em, honestly anything would be a step up from the MMos we have now....and once the NDA is lifted for LOTR i think you will hear quite a different opinion
Personally voting on a game whitch techally doesn't exist yet is meaningless, however I personally beleave hyped games usally end up the most dissapointing as people's expectations will end up too high
Originally posted by Giana I think all these MMos seem interesting and im willing to try a few of em, honestly anything would be a step up from the MMos we have now....and once the NDA is lifted for LOTR i think you will hear quite a different opinion
There is an NDA on LOTR?
Reading some of the comments in this thread made me wonder if it had been lifted. Far too many people here seem quite free to break such agreements, which is a pity, because without an NDA to protect them companies are much less likely to engage in widescale beta testing (which will in turn result in lower quality games).
Personally I voted Stargate Worlds as most likely to disappoint. For a small development team to create an MMO set in a single world is ambitious. For a small company to attempt to create a game set accross several worlds seems foolhardy.
C: People are already bitching and fighting about raiding, divided community before it's released. Gotts disappoint someone.
Oh and I didn't vote for Darkfall as I don't believe it will ever be released.
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience"
Comments
Most of the games up there are offering many things that are completely new or are rare on the market right now. The exception is LoTRo, because it is a lot like WoW in its gameplay. You collect and do quests until max level. The only new thing is monster pvp and not many people really care much about that in this game.
So why not Vanguard? It is true that Vanguard will be a repeat of EQ with the exception of sea warfare, which IMO is pretty huge. But there are true fans of EQ style that won't play a dumbed down version by WoW and don't like the lower quality version of EQ2. They are playing a very old EQ and are ready for a newer version of the game. So Vanguard will be less of a dissapointment than LoTRo, which offers more of the WoW same.
I actually voted for Stargate, but for just one reason--because the show was canceled and the game is far away from release. It's doubtful there will be any more Stargate movies, and with the show gone the fanbase can only dwindle with time (unless it pulls a Star Trek, but I think not). By the time the game comes out it will have missed its window of opportunity.
In some ways, LotR also has missed its window, though a "The Hobbit" movie could reel them back in. However, there's also the risk, much as I'd hate to see it happen, of a Matrix Reloaded/Revolutions effect if the movie's bad--killing much of the potential audience for the game. Still, I think in terms of potential and desire, LotR was high on many people's lists but beginning with the selection of Turbine, many of us had a bad feeling about the end result.
Vanguard has some promising aspects, but is it really much different than the games that are already out or, even worse, have already come out and then died? I love the idea of less instancing--but that has its own can of worms and if that's really all that's being offered, it's not much.
Warhammer is difficult to comment on--it could be great or could be a dog. So much of the game depends on whether people continue to see it as a WoW clone, despite the historical timeline (and lets face it, Warhammer may have been first with the original game, but WoW was first in the online space and that's what we're talking about now and what people will be judging. They will not be comparing it to table-top miniatures gaming or computer games from the '80s and '90s). This title's success is going to come down to its pvp.
Star Trek Online is one IP that's mostly immune to the usual IP problems I think because its fanbase is large, diverse, and old--that is, it's already weathered bad movies and bad shows and bad games and has experienced quite a few different takes on the Star Trek universe. Some of the basic concept of the shows lends themselves well to an mmo (away parties, mix of crafting and combat, instancing via transporters, etc.). But one crucial concept of the show can't really be present with technology that we have today, and that's exploration. Remember those words--"Boldly go where no man [or "one" in ST:NG] has gone before." That's going to be hard to do in an mmo in the first place. The Star Wars universe has a lot of planets and places, but oddly enough, most of the action revolves around the same few places. Star Trek, however, rarely visited the same place twice. That will be a mighty feat to duplicate in an mmo--to gives players that feeling of "where no man has gone before."
Age of Conan is one I'm very much looking forward to and has some new ways of doing things in terms of its combat. At the same time, I'm not going to be that disappointed if it doesn't live up to expectations for some reason--maybe because I'm not a big fan of the original concept (I read the original books ages ago, and they were fun, but they're not great literature). But unless they change things drastically for the worse, I plan on getting that one soon after release.
As for the other games, they all seem interesting, but not much different than what we've seen before. Were they coming out two years ago, they'd seem great. Now we very much want things to evolve with our games.
Have many of you noticed how short the list for "Games in Development" is? I think we're headed into a big period of consolidation and death for the mmo industry. A large component of an mmo is the "massively multiplayer" part. It's hard for these smaller games to get the initial publicity for a big crowd, and it's tough for any game to take much of the population from larger games for long (people try the news games and then return). I think we're going to end up with a few leaders in different categories (maybe fantasy, superhero, sci-fi, historical or maybe more along the lines of pve, pvp, rvr, etc).
I'm still surprised that there hasn't been more variety in genres in mmos--that is, no horror, no time travel, very few historical (only WWII Online?) or superhero. So maybe in addition to the category leaders we'll have some niche leaders such as EVE and others-to-be-developed like Pirates of the Burning Sea. For a small company, niche is the way to go. Games like Darkfall simply are too ambitious for small companies--they take so long to come out that people get upset or lose interest. Even niche games take a very long time to develop properly--and the gaming audience has become much less forgiving of an "incomplete" game being released.
Anyway, there are two sides to everything (at least two sides)--and its only fair to discuss the negative as well as the positive. Games are like food: no single game will feed you forever, they are often better in memory than in fact, variety is nice even if I don't take advantage of it, and every person has their own tastes.
Apply lemon juice and candle flame here to reveal secret message.
I seriously hope to god that ST:O is a much better, if not the best atleast a average game.
My Brute - Dare to challenge?
i just don't think its safe to call it yet
i'll wait till launch before i deciede
In case it was missed somehow, Thrones of Chaos should have been on the poll. That's my #1 pick for rapid failure. With Darkfall as a possible #2 failure wise, I'd say even the worst of the rest of those listed will manage to at least manage a bare minimum of a subscriber base to limp along for awhile.
Lets see, Bioware has their mystery mmo. Who knows what the setting for that will be. Sure there are rumors of SWG2 or KOTOR online but it could be anything from a dnd mmo to a transformers mmo lol. Peter Jackson has a game studio now that is working on some mystery mmo and there is still Raph Koster who is either working with a company we already know or is working on something on his own, but it is confirmed that he is working on a secret mmo project.
So there alone are at least 5 more mmo's and not to mention the new announcement that relic is working on something so make that 6.
http://www.speedtest.net/result/7300033012
every MMO player has expectations and wishes for the ideal mmo game, but ive yet to see one fill everyones checkboxes and most players compomise one thing or another and just play certain games
Cant wait for the "uber" mmo to be released, making its player base happy - every one in development has the potential to be so lets hope!
Devs take all the good leave out the bad and learn from previous mmo mistakes PLEASE!
Hmm, one big problem with predicting the most dissapointing game. People have to think it will do well before release.
I personally feel Vanguard will have trouble living up to the hype though.
No man is an island, entire of itself; every man is a piece of the continent, a part of the main. any man's death diminishes me, because I am involved in mankind, and therefore never send to know for whom the bell tolls; it tolls for thee.
Hemingway
http://www.speedtest.net/result/7300033012
I think a lot of people looking forward to AOC who say 'Ohh, an M rating, that means only mature adults' are going to be sorely disappointed, I think the M rating is more likely to attract the 'LOL, boobies' and 'Blood ROX' crowd. Especially since there's no real way to tell how old player's are, just that they have a credit card.
Good point about various mmos that are being worked on that aren't listed here and are basically being kept as stealthy black ops. That, too, says something about the state of mmos, though. They say it's because they don't want other companies beating them to the punch, but it might be more that the less the potential players know, the less they will be disappointed at release.
Word of mouth is proving to be very pivotal for mmos--being such a community-oriented gaming genre, it makes sense. Communities can easily make or break a game, and maybe even a developer if they don't make real efforts to change their ways when they have a negative reputation.
It's true that a game would have to be hyped first before it could be a disappointment on release. That's why, for me, many of those games can't be disappointing--I'm not expecting anything from them anyway. The game I would probably be most hyped about would be Bioware's. Given that, I'm glad they're keeping it under wraps so I can't get too caught up in what they're doing. So far, they've put out great products without having their fans "watch them work."
The upcoming supers situation is a bit strange to me. Essentially, a developer has agreed to make its own competition. Regardless of how they spin it, I can't see it any other way. It will be interesting to see how that turns out. Though, in the end, maybe it will be no different than when a company makes, say, an EQII to complement their EQI.
Apply lemon juice and candle flame here to reveal secret message.
My Brute - Dare to challenge?
I never ever roleplay, but I go on RP servers in almost every mmo I play just because there aren't as much retards running around.
Fear not fanbois, we are not trolls, let's take off your tin foil hat and learn what VAPORWARE is:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vaporware
"Vaporware is a term used to describe a software or hardware product that is announced by a developer well in advance of release, but which then fails to emerge after having well exceeded the period of development time that was initially claimed or would normally be expected for the development cycle of a similar product."
Bring on the WARRRRGGHH!
There is an NDA on LOTR?
Reading some of the comments in this thread made me wonder if it had been lifted. Far too many people here seem quite free to break such agreements, which is a pity, because without an NDA to protect them companies are much less likely to engage in widescale beta testing (which will in turn result in lower quality games).
Personally I voted Stargate Worlds as most likely to disappoint. For a small development team to create an MMO set in a single world is ambitious. For a small company to attempt to create a game set accross several worlds seems foolhardy.
D&D Home Page - What Class Are You? - Build A Character - D&D Compendium
Vanguard, my reasons being,
A: Brad the 6 month bail out boy.
B: SOE 'nuff said there.
C: People are already bitching and fighting about raiding, divided community before it's released. Gotts disappoint someone.
Oh and I didn't vote for Darkfall as I don't believe it will ever be released.
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience"
CS Lewis