Don't fret. I have more experience now than I did when I started. I'm bound to have learned something over the years.
I would have thought not doing a 180 degree turn on the core features of a piece of software that had been out for 2 years was common sense and a basic part of any software development cycle and not something you have to learn.
I hope your never near the dev team for another sandbox MMO again.
I don't blame Freeman for the NGE, I just think he sucks.
Oh and if that's really you Freeman I'd like to ask you a question. After leaving SOE how often do you play SWG? Also do you still play WoW? Do you think NGE is more fun for you personally than PRE-CU? What are your personal opinions of Smed and his bum chum Julio?
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience"
Come on people, the guy has the guts to bath in blood before jumping in a hungry sharks pool, that's quite something !
Now, if he was saying something among the lines of "I'm sorry, I/We fucked up" -and I'm not talking about communication issues- I might even start to give him a little respect. So, let's be polite and give him the chance to do so... We can always resume the bashing if (when) he fails to do so.
P.S : I'm curious though... Did he leave SOE of his own will, which might indicate some kind of actual intelligence on his part, or was he shown the door, which might indicate some kind of actual intelligence on SOE's part ?
As I stated before, I hold him responsible... that is true, BUT HE IS NOT THE ONLY ONE... he was about 5% of this if that I promise that.
None the less, he has come here to be civil and help us UNDERSTAND some things... look, Im pissed more then 90% of you, I have flamed, posted, ranted on over 10 sites, SOE forums, got Smedley to send some of you emails, posted my own and just about pissed off every NGEr by putting statements and facts in thier face they hate... So BY ALL MEANS, I am not in any means since the start of this a "brown noser" on this topic.
But I can sure as fuck tell you I would rather have a civil discussion to help understand or KNOW the truth and more about why and what happend.
So far we have all talked about alot of things here, Mr. Freeman posted here to discuss things... If we are ever going to know the truth, this will be the only way it happens, because THEY CANNOT DO THIS ON A Private gaming site or whom they worked for owned site.. that is a breach of some kind I'm sure.
I rather try to have some civil discussions then not, sure you can still say how you feel BUT if we are going to understand or know more -- OR have the ability to say to the NGErs "See told you that you were fooled" -- then you need to play the politics of this mess as well.
Yes, I can say I am dissapointed, yes we are all still pissed.. BUT I rather be able to talk to the people we are pissed at then not at all.
I would go out on a limb here and say we could get another Dev/SOE person to come here to talk.. BUT we would have to be somewhat civil.
We could get some candid answers we always wanted and maybe understand better what really happend.
*Again, I am just saying...* MMORPG lets us speak freely here alot, but I think in most respects Devs and or SOE employees may have a bit more freedom here...
I have not changed any view on this at all, make no mistake.. I think the NGE is a joke and what SOE did to people was moronic.. but at least we can talk about it vs not at all.
______________________________ I usually picture the Career builder commercial with the room full of monkeys and upside down sales chart when thinking about the SOE/SWG decision making process..... SOE's John Blakely and Todd Fiala issued a warning: "Don't make our mistakes." Ref NGE Winner of the worst MMOS goes to.... the NGE and SWG..!!! http://www.mmorpg.com/showFeature.cfm?loadFeature=1034&bhcp=1
Originally posted by HudsonD Come on people, the guy has the guts to bath in blood before jumping in a hungry sharks pool, that's quite something ! Now, if he was saying something among the lines of "I'm sorry, I/We fucked up" -and I'm not talking about communication issues- I might even start to give him a little respect. So, let's be polite and give him the chance to do so... We can always resume the bashing if (when) he fails to do so.
P.S : I'm curious though... Did he leave SOE of his own will, which might indicate some kind of actual intelligence on his part, or was he shown the door, which might indicate some kind of actual intelligence on SOE's part ?
I heard that he escaped from his metal box after Smedley came back one night drunk and forgot to lock it. Seems Smed had been flying around in the wee hours scouting for virgins blood like he usualy does, couldn't find any and since the sun was rising he compromised and fed on Elizabeth Taylor after she'd collapsed due to drinking two bottles of Vodka. Smed only just managed to fly back to Austin and stagger into his coffin before daylight came, forgeting to lock one of his tortured minions away in his metal box for the day.
Jeff is now investing in garlic and is probably applying to CCP for a job on their vampire MMO, Jeff sleeps with a wooden mallet and stake under his bed!
Disclaimer: I'm full of crap, don't ban me please?
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience"
Originally posted by iskareot Look, we -- as I have even posted on his blog.. As I stated before, I hold him responsible... that is true, BUT HE IS NOT THE ONLY ONE... he was about 5% of this if that I promise that. None the less, he has come here to be civil and help us UNDERSTAND some things... look, Im pissed more then 90% of you, I have flamed, posted, ranted on over 10 sites, SOE forums, got Smedley to send some of you emails, posted my own and just about pissed off every NGEr by putting statements and facts in thier face they hate... So BY ALL MEANS, I am not in any means since the start of this a "brown noser" on this topic. But I can sure as fuck tell you I would rather have a civil discussion to help understand or KNOW the truth and more about why and what happend. So far we have all talked about alot of things here, Mr. Freeman posted here to discuss things... If we are ever going to know the truth, this will be the only way it happens, because THEY CANNOT DO THIS ON A Private gaming site or whom they worked for owned site.. that is a breach of some kind I'm sure. I rather try to have some civil discussions then not, sure you can still say how you feel BUT if we are going to understand or know more -- OR have the ability to say to the NGErs "See told you that you were fooled" -- then you need to play the politics of this mess as well. Yes, I can say I am dissapointed, yes we are all still pissed.. BUT I rather be able to talk to the people we are pissed at then not at all. I would go out on a limb here and say we could get another Dev/SOE person to come here to talk.. BUT we would have to be somewhat civil. We could get some candid answers we always wanted and maybe understand better what really happend. *Again, I am just saying...* MMORPG lets us speak freely here alot, but I think in most respects Devs and or SOE employees may have a bit more freedom here... I have not changed any view on this at all, make no mistake.. I think the NGE is a joke and what SOE did to people was moronic.. but at least we can talk about it vs not at all.
Originally posted by BlazinBlades Freeman can I have your baby. Bring it baby Bring it on down now.
He is unemployed now and doesn't have the healthcare to cover any more babies at the moment.
Bring it on down now.
Also keep it down or you might get someone preggers...
______________________________ I usually picture the Career builder commercial with the room full of monkeys and upside down sales chart when thinking about the SOE/SWG decision making process..... SOE's John Blakely and Todd Fiala issued a warning: "Don't make our mistakes." Ref NGE Winner of the worst MMOS goes to.... the NGE and SWG..!!! http://www.mmorpg.com/showFeature.cfm?loadFeature=1034&bhcp=1
When somebody working in a company accepts to do something,changes,decisions etc etc He has to keep in mind future consequences of supporting that idea. Anyway when he remained in SOE ,he had a salary hadnt he? so that meant you agree with the colors of your company. He remained in SOE,he could leave,he had enough time.
So it was his decision. I think it is cinic coming to this forum and say 'sorry'; so he threw the stone,supported his company and now when the sunset is near comes here and say im sorry after a year when everybody knew it was going to be a sure failure.
whats next? making a donation if he doesnt find a new job? lol
Originally posted by MMO_Man Look at you guys kissing his ass (if it really is him). You're all a bunch of tough guys behind their backs but as soon as one of them posts you have your noses buried in his ass. I for one hope Jeff Freeman never works in the game industry again, I don't feel sorry for you nor do I accept your apology, like the rest of these brown nosers.
Hey Jeff go join up a rlmmo I'm sure those guys would stroke your epeen for ya.
Originally posted by Agricola1 I don't blame Freeman for the NGE, I just think he sucks. Oh and if that's really you Freeman I'd like to ask you a question. After leaving SOE how often do you play SWG? Also do you still play WoW? Do you think NGE is more fun for you personally than PRE-CU? What are your personal opinions of Smed and his bum chum Julio?
My memory isnt great, but didnt Freeman admit to being responsible for coming up with the NGE? I coulda sworn he was the one that went on about trying out an idea, and how great it was.
"The man who exchanges Liberty for Iconic classes is a fool deserving of neither." - Me and Ben Franklin
I doubt anyone here is really Jeff Freeman, but just in case...
Jeff,
While I admire your efforts to fix SWG, I was suprised at the way it was done. It was apparent to all that your team worked in secret and apart from the other developers working on SWG. The fact that we had a major profession revamp (squad leader) and another on the way was proof enough that many devs with SWG had no idea the NGE was coming.
I dont know your backgound or experience level but werent you aware of the cardinal rule of all MMO's ? The one I refer to of course is never changing the core game. I uderstand new guys who come onboard a company...they want to prove themselves to the big guys. But to totally toss in the garbage everything that was done was just plain wrong.
The fact that the NGE was kept secret is proof that you all were well aware your actions were wrong. You knew that public backlash would be immense, and yet you continued on with this project regardless.
Fact is Jeff, people bought SWG in July 2003 to play Ralph Koster's vision. Many of us followed Ralph over from Ultima because we loved the concept of a virtual world we could live in and affect. Sure SWG should have had more players but it wasnt a design flaw that kept SWG from growing. Plain and simple, it was a lack of quality control that made people leave. You cant expect people to pay a monthly fee if said product is broken.
Good luck wherever you land Jeff, I do mean that. Every person deserves a chance to support themselves and their families. However I wont be touching a SOE product again and any MMO with your name on it.
Originally posted by iskareot here to discuss things... If we are ever going to know the truth, this will be the only way it happens, because THEY CANNOT DO THIS ON A Private gaming site or whom they worked for owned site.. that is a breach of some kind I'm sure.
Well first he didn't come here to talk about what happened, he has made it very clear on his blog and here that he won't talk about stuff from SoE.
second, know the truth? Helios admited the truth back in that big long dev posting frenzy Smed started around last march where he said they knew they were changing the game away from what the current players liked from well before the NGE. They considered it worth it to trade us for a different playerbase and hoped we'd stick around anyway.
and lastly what does knowing the truth get us? The game is still kack and not worth playing. All knowing the truth means is we know how badly SoE, LA and the lead developers involved lied to us and not to trust them in the future.
All I can say is this.... such a heavy discussion here. Seems like someone started a war, basically just shows that many of us here.....got too much spare time rofl
As my moma told me, "If you can't say something nice about someone, say it behind their back."
All I can say is that NGE really pisses me off still and I want a refund on my 9 months of crap on a yearly account that I basically did not use. That would be a start on having me say nice things about people involved with the creation of the NGE.
Here is the only constructive thing I can say, developers and players should be on the same side. If they are on the same side, then companies like SOE and EA are weaked in their control over us both. If players support you, then they will follow you where ever you go, look at Koster and his legions of fans.
--When you resubscribe to SWG, an 18 yearold Stripper finds Jesus, gives up stripping, and moves with a rolex reverend to Hawaii. --In MMORPG's l007 is the opiate of the masses. --The absence of evidence is not the evidence of absence! --CCP could cut off an Eve player's fun bits, and that player would say that it was good CCP did that.
Originally posted by admriker4 I doubt anyone here is really Jeff Freeman, but just in case... Jeff, While I admire your efforts to fix SWG, I was suprised at the way it was done. It was apparent to all that your team worked in secret and apart from the other developers working on SWG. The fact that we had a major profession revamp (squad leader) and another on the way was proof enough that many devs with SWG had no idea the NGE was coming. I dont know your backgound or experience level but werent you aware of the cardinal rule of all MMO's ? The one I refer to of course is never changing the core game. I uderstand new guys who come onboard a company...they want to prove themselves to the big guys. But to totally toss in the garbage everything that was done was just plain wrong. The fact that the NGE was kept secret is proof that you all were well aware your actions were wrong. You knew that public backlash would be immense, and yet you continued on with this project regardless. Fact is Jeff, people bought SWG in July 2003 to play Ralph Koster's vision. Many of us followed Ralph over from Ultima because we loved the concept of a virtual world we could live in and affect. Sure SWG should have had more players but it wasnt a design flaw that kept SWG from growing. Plain and simple, it was a lack of quality control that made people leave. You cant expect people to pay a monthly fee if said product is broken. Good luck wherever you land Jeff, I do mean that. Every person deserves a chance to support themselves and their families. However I wont be touching a SOE product again and any MMO with your name on it.
I agree with you, but also have some thoughts about what developers can do or not, and why as a developer myself (not for games) I can see some problems with doing the right thing.
I think the developers had no choice, regarding the NGE. If it was the management of SOE or LA that made the decision, that SWG should be where WOW was, I dont know. It could be both. My guess, it was a decision out of short-term greed.
But what shall an employee (Mr. Freeman) do, if the Company decides to make changes to a game, like SOE did with SWG, and he dont like it? Go on strike? well, guess what the company would put in this persons paper then. It would be hard to find a new job with a record as non-loyal person. Especially when the NGE had not been released yet, and the market only have had Mr. Freemans word of how bad it would be (if that was what he thought back then).
On the other hand, it can be hard to a get a new top position, with the history of being involved with the NGE debacle. But at least now, afterwards the incident, the market now what happened and Im sure that the high ones in the gaming business can talk privately about it and really explain what it was all about. And THATs the story I would love to hear, even if I was not allowed to tell another living soul about it.
The big loser is SOE, and in some regards LA. SOE have got them into a No Win No Win situation. They lost most of their subscribers to SWG and their reputation is spoiled for many years to come. I dont see many top of the art developers trying to get a job at SOE in the near future, and many people wont invest time and money in their products, knowing the product may suddenly change over a night.
At least I will not, until SOE gives an honest apology and explains the entire game behind the SWG-NGE transition, and promises publicly to never do that again. And give us Pre-CU back with continued support and development, as it should have been during the initial design.
Im glad Mr. Freeman posted here, and I *think* I understood what he wrote, what the message was. I wish him good luck, whatever hes doing now.
And I apologize for bad spelling/grammar. English is not my first language.
Originally posted by Sandbox But what shall an employee (Mr. Freeman) do, if the Company decides to make changes to a game, like SOE did with SWG, and he dont like it? Go on strike? well, guess what the company would put in this persons paper then. It would be hard to find a new job with a record as non-loyal person. Especially when the NGE had not been released yet, and the market only have had Mr. Freemans word of how bad it would be (if that was what he thought back then).On the other hand, it could be hard to a get a new top position, with the history of being involved with the NGE debacle. But at least now, afterwards the incident, the market now what happened and Im sure that the high ones in the gaming business can talk privately about it and really explain what it was all about. And THATs the story I would love to hear, even if I was not allowed to tell another living soul about it.
Isn't that just another version of "I was only following order" excuse? Sure he isn't being asked to kill anyone but on the other hand giving in his notice isn't going to cost him as much as a solider saying no.
IF he actuelly thought the NGE was awfull and he knew it was fucking over the current players it doesn't make it any better. For the reasons you list he would have gone along with it purely because of how handing in his notice would have effected him. Sure having a family to support or being afraid he might take a while to get another job are understandible but that doesn't mean we have to like him or the fact he 'ran us over' for those reasons because if he was willing to sell his customers out once to benefit himself he would and will do it again.
But what shall an employee (Mr. Freeman) do, if the Company decides to make changes to a game, like SOE did with SWG, and he dont like it? Go on strike? well, guess what the company would put in this persons paper then. It would be hard to find a new job with a record as non-loyal person. Especially when the NGE had not been released yet, and the market only have had Mr. Freemans word of how bad it would be (if that was what he thought back then). On the other hand, it could be hard to a get a new top position, with the history of being involved with the NGE debacle. But at least now, afterwards the incident, the market now what happened and Im sure that the high ones in the gaming business can talk privately about it and really explain what it was all about. And THATs the story I would love to hear, even if I was not allowed to tell another living soul about it.
Isn't that just another version of "I was only following order" excuse? Sure he isn't being asked to kill anyone but on the other hand giving in his notice isn't going to cost him as much as a solider saying no.
IF he actuelly thought the NGE was awfull and he knew it was fucking over the current players it doesn't make it any better. For the reasons you list he would have gone along with it purely because of how handing in his notice would have effected him. Sure having a family to support or being afraid he might take a while to get another job are understandible but that doesn't mean we have to like him or the fact he 'ran us over' for those reasons because if he was willing to sell his customers out once to benefit himself he would and will do it again.
You are correct. That's another version of that excuse, sort of anyway.
I did not imply that its OK, just wanted to point out the dilemma.
And I dont like anyone that was involved with the NGE disaster.
But I wont call people names when I dont know what really happen or whom did what.
I have a strong feeling that it could be an economic decision, above the developers head.
I have to stick with calling SOE names and say what I think about current version of SWG.
Originally posted by Sandbox I agree with you, but also have some thoughts about what developers can do or not, and why as a developer myself (not for games) I can see some problems with doing the right thing.I think the developers had no choice, regarding the NGE. If it was the management of SOE or LA that made the decision, that SWG should be where WOW was, I dont know. It could be both. My guess, it was a decision out of short-term greed.But what shall an employee (Mr. Freeman) do, if the Company decides to make changes to a game, like SOE did with SWG, and he dont like it? Go on strike? well, guess what the company would put in this persons paper then. It would be hard to find a new job with a record as non-loyal person. Especially when the NGE had not been released yet, and the market only have had Mr. Freemans word of how bad it would be (if that was what he thought back then).On the other hand, it can be hard to a get a new top position, with the history of being involved with the NGE debacle. But at least now, afterwards the incident, the market now what happened and Im sure that the high ones in the gaming business can talk privately about it and really explain what it was all about. And THATs the story I would love to hear, even if I was not allowed to tell another living soul about it.The big loser is SOE, and in some regards LA. SOE have got them into a No Win No Win situation. They lost most of their subscribers to SWG and their reputation is spoiled for many years to come. I dont see many top of the art developers trying to get a job at SOE in the near future, and many people wont invest time and money in their products, knowing the product may suddenly change over a night.At least I will not, until SOE gives an honest apology and explains the entire game behind the SWG-NGE transition, and promises publicly to never do that again. And give us Pre-CU back with continued support and development, as it should have been during the initial design.Im glad Mr. Freeman posted here, and I *think* I understood what he wrote, what the message was. I wish him good luck, whatever hes doing now.And I apologize for bad spelling/grammar. English is not my first language.
-Here is the point that counters the "You need to be loyal or we will enslave your wife and children and destroy your career" argument.
Tiggs actually spoke out against the NGE. All the months of Tiggs being a shill for SOE were threw out the window in the customers' eyes. And Tiggs is now working at DDO.
-As a developer, you need to create a cult of personality like Koster did. It should be your main goal if your interested in Job security. When you allow yourself to get into a project that is suicidal, you destroy your career more effectively then any "Disloyalty" to the "bosses," could ever do.
I know for a fact, that I will be very hard pressed to try another project with Freeman's name on it. This means he would have to create a near perfect MMORPG in my opinion before I would try it.
-And what should Freeman have done? He should have quit and said it was for other reasons or asked for a transfer to another project for another reason, if the NGE was being forced upon him. There are ways to weasle out of bad moves so that you can maintain your good name in both the court of public opinion and the opinion of the job pool.
--When you resubscribe to SWG, an 18 yearold Stripper finds Jesus, gives up stripping, and moves with a rolex reverend to Hawaii. --In MMORPG's l007 is the opiate of the masses. --The absence of evidence is not the evidence of absence! --CCP could cut off an Eve player's fun bits, and that player would say that it was good CCP did that.
But I wont call people names when I dont know what really happen or whom did what.I have a strong feeling that it could be an economic decision, above the developers head.I have to stick with calling SOE names and say what I think about current version of SWG.Until I know better
Ah ok, fair enough. The only two developers I'd call names would be ChrisCao and Helios and that's because they have shown on the forums what they thought of the preNGE playstyle and players. In Freemans case I won't call him names but I'm not going to pretend I like him or that I would be happy with him anywhere near an MMO I play.
Comments
See you in the dream..
The Fires from heaven, now as cold as ice. A rapid ascension tolls a heavy price.
Well being from Ireland am not subtle.
So Thank you very much for ruining a game that so much of us loved
I hope you never work in a mmo again
And may you step in shit every time you step out of the car because that is what we got with the nge!!!!!!
Jeff Freeman no longer is employed by SOE.
http://mythicalblog.com/blog/2006/12/04/forums-are-misunderstood/
Though I am worried by what MMO he will infect next...
Don't fret. I have more experience now than I did when I started. I'm bound to have learned something over the years.
I would have thought not doing a 180 degree turn on the core features of a piece of software that had been out for 2 years was common sense and a basic part of any software development cycle and not something you have to learn.
I hope your never near the dev team for another sandbox MMO again.
I don't blame Freeman for the NGE, I just think he sucks.
Oh and if that's really you Freeman I'd like to ask you a question. After leaving SOE how often do you play SWG? Also do you still play WoW? Do you think NGE is more fun for you personally than PRE-CU? What are your personal opinions of Smed and his bum chum Julio?
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience"
CS Lewis
Come on people, the guy has the guts to bath in blood before jumping in a hungry sharks pool, that's quite something !
Now, if he was saying something among the lines of "I'm sorry, I/We
fucked up" -and I'm not talking about communication issues- I might
even start to give him a little respect.
So, let's be polite and give him the chance to do so... We can always resume the bashing if (when) he fails to do so.
P.S : I'm curious though... Did he leave SOE of his own will, which
might indicate some kind of actual intelligence on his part, or was he
shown the door, which might indicate some kind of actual intelligence
on SOE's part ?
"Peace through superior firepower"
Look, we -- as I have even posted on his blog..
As I stated before, I hold him responsible... that is true, BUT HE IS NOT THE ONLY ONE... he was about 5% of this if that I promise that.
None the less, he has come here to be civil and help us UNDERSTAND some things... look, Im pissed more then 90% of you, I have flamed, posted, ranted on over 10 sites, SOE forums, got Smedley to send some of you emails, posted my own and just about pissed off every NGEr by putting statements and facts in thier face they hate... So BY ALL MEANS, I am not in any means since the start of this a "brown noser" on this topic.
But I can sure as fuck tell you I would rather have a civil discussion to help understand or KNOW the truth and more about why and what happend.
So far we have all talked about alot of things here, Mr. Freeman posted here to discuss things... If we are ever going to know the truth, this will be the only way it happens, because THEY CANNOT DO THIS ON A Private gaming site or whom they worked for owned site.. that is a breach of some kind I'm sure.
I rather try to have some civil discussions then not, sure you can still say how you feel BUT if we are going to understand or know more -- OR have the ability to say to the NGErs "See told you that you were fooled" -- then you need to play the politics of this mess as well.
Yes, I can say I am dissapointed, yes we are all still pissed.. BUT I rather be able to talk to the people we are pissed at then not at all.
I would go out on a limb here and say we could get another Dev/SOE person to come here to talk.. BUT we would have to be somewhat civil.
We could get some candid answers we always wanted and maybe understand better what really happend.
*Again, I am just saying...* MMORPG lets us speak freely here alot, but I think in most respects Devs and or SOE employees may have a bit more freedom here...
I have not changed any view on this at all, make no mistake.. I think the NGE is a joke and what SOE did to people was moronic.. but at least we can talk about it vs not at all.
______________________________
I usually picture the Career builder commercial with the room full of monkeys and upside down sales chart when thinking about the SOE/SWG decision making process.....
SOE's John Blakely and Todd Fiala issued a warning: "Don't make our mistakes." Ref NGE
Winner of the worst MMOS goes to.... the NGE and SWG..!!! http://www.mmorpg.com/showFeature.cfm?loadFeature=1034&bhcp=1
I heard that he escaped from his metal box after Smedley came back one night drunk and forgot to lock it. Seems Smed had been flying around in the wee hours scouting for virgins blood like he usualy does, couldn't find any and since the sun was rising he compromised and fed on Elizabeth Taylor after she'd collapsed due to drinking two bottles of Vodka. Smed only just managed to fly back to Austin and stagger into his coffin before daylight came, forgeting to lock one of his tortured minions away in his metal box for the day.
Jeff is now investing in garlic and is probably applying to CCP for a job on their vampire MMO, Jeff sleeps with a wooden mallet and stake under his bed!
Disclaimer: I'm full of crap, don't ban me please?
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience"
CS Lewis
Freeman can I have your baby. Bring it baby Bring it on down now.
Damn byotch dat aint no friggn moon fool, dat be a friggn space station byotch.
I sleep with a pillow under my gun.
Bring it on down now.
Also keep it down or you might get someone preggers...
______________________________
I usually picture the Career builder commercial with the room full of monkeys and upside down sales chart when thinking about the SOE/SWG decision making process.....
SOE's John Blakely and Todd Fiala issued a warning: "Don't make our mistakes." Ref NGE
Winner of the worst MMOS goes to.... the NGE and SWG..!!! http://www.mmorpg.com/showFeature.cfm?loadFeature=1034&bhcp=1
Isk, its the first time I dont agree with you.
Look it this way:
When somebody working in a company accepts to do something,changes,decisions etc etc He has to keep in mind future consequences of supporting that idea. Anyway when he remained in SOE ,he had a salary hadnt he? so that meant you agree with the colors of your company. He remained in SOE,he could leave,he had enough time.
So it was his decision. I think it is cinic coming to this forum and say 'sorry'; so he threw the stone,supported his company and now when the sunset is near comes here and say im sorry after a year when everybody knew it was going to be a sure failure.
whats next? making a donation if he doesnt find a new job? lol
Don't you just love internet tough guys.
Classic.
http://www.greycouncil.org/
"The man who exchanges Liberty for Iconic classes is a fool deserving of neither." - Me and Ben Franklin
I doubt anyone here is really Jeff Freeman, but just in case...
Jeff,
While I admire your efforts to fix SWG, I was suprised at the way it was done. It was apparent to all that your team worked in secret and apart from the other developers working on SWG. The fact that we had a major profession revamp (squad leader) and another on the way was proof enough that many devs with SWG had no idea the NGE was coming.
I dont know your backgound or experience level but werent you aware of the cardinal rule of all MMO's ? The one I refer to of course is never changing the core game. I uderstand new guys who come onboard a company...they want to prove themselves to the big guys. But to totally toss in the garbage everything that was done was just plain wrong.
The fact that the NGE was kept secret is proof that you all were well aware your actions were wrong. You knew that public backlash would be immense, and yet you continued on with this project regardless.
Fact is Jeff, people bought SWG in July 2003 to play Ralph Koster's vision. Many of us followed Ralph over from Ultima because we loved the concept of a virtual world we could live in and affect. Sure SWG should have had more players but it wasnt a design flaw that kept SWG from growing. Plain and simple, it was a lack of quality control that made people leave. You cant expect people to pay a monthly fee if said product is broken.
Good luck wherever you land Jeff, I do mean that. Every person deserves a chance to support themselves and their families. However I wont be touching a SOE product again and any MMO with your name on it.
Well first he didn't come here to talk about what happened, he has made it very clear on his blog and here that he won't talk about stuff from SoE.
second, know the truth? Helios admited the truth back in that big long dev posting frenzy Smed started around last march where he said they knew they were changing the game away from what the current players liked from well before the NGE. They considered it worth it to trade us for a different playerbase and hoped we'd stick around anyway.
and lastly what does knowing the truth get us? The game is still kack and not worth playing. All knowing the truth means is we know how badly SoE, LA and the lead developers involved lied to us and not to trust them in the future.
SWG, Eve, Planetside 2, EQN, Star Citizen
All I can say is that NGE really pisses me off still and I want a
refund on my 9 months of crap on a yearly account that I basically did
not use. That would be a start on having me say nice things about
people involved with the creation of the NGE.
Here is the only constructive thing I can say, developers and players should be on the same side. If they are on the same side, then companies like SOE and EA are weaked in their control over us both. If players support you, then they will follow you where ever you go, look at Koster and his legions of fans.
--When you resubscribe to SWG, an 18 yearold Stripper finds Jesus, gives up stripping, and moves with a rolex reverend to Hawaii.
--In MMORPG's l007 is the opiate of the masses.
--The absence of evidence is not the evidence of absence!
--CCP could cut off an Eve player's fun bits, and that player would say that it was good CCP did that.
I agree with you, but also have some thoughts about what developers can do or not, and why as a developer myself (not for games) I can see some problems with doing the right thing.
I think the developers had no choice, regarding the NGE. If it was the management of SOE or LA that made the decision, that SWG should be where WOW was, I dont know. It could be both. My guess, it was a decision out of short-term greed.
But what shall an employee (Mr. Freeman) do, if the Company decides to make changes to a game, like SOE did with SWG, and he dont like it? Go on strike? well, guess what the company would put in this persons paper then. It would be hard to find a new job with a record as non-loyal person. Especially when the NGE had not been released yet, and the market only have had Mr. Freemans word of how bad it would be (if that was what he thought back then).
On the other hand, it can be hard to a get a new top position, with the history of being involved with the NGE debacle. But at least now, afterwards the incident, the market now what happened and Im sure that the high ones in the gaming business can talk privately about it and really explain what it was all about. And THATs the story I would love to hear, even if I was not allowed to tell another living soul about it.
The big loser is SOE, and in some regards LA. SOE have got them into a No Win No Win situation. They lost most of their subscribers to SWG and their reputation is spoiled for many years to come. I dont see many top of the art developers trying to get a job at SOE in the near future, and many people wont invest time and money in their products, knowing the product may suddenly change over a night.
At least I will not, until SOE gives an honest apology and explains the entire game behind the SWG-NGE transition, and promises publicly to never do that again. And give us Pre-CU back with continued support and development, as it should have been during the initial design.
Im glad Mr. Freeman posted here, and I *think* I understood what he wrote, what the message was. I wish him good luck, whatever hes doing now.
And I apologize for bad spelling/grammar. English is not my first language.
IF he actuelly thought the NGE was awfull and he knew it was fucking over the current players it doesn't make it any better. For the reasons you list he would have gone along with it purely because of how handing in his notice would have effected him. Sure having a family to support or being afraid he might take a while to get another job are understandible but that doesn't mean we have to like him or the fact he 'ran us over' for those reasons because if he was willing to sell his customers out once to benefit himself he would and will do it again.
IF he actuelly thought the NGE was awfull and he knew it was fucking over the current players it doesn't make it any better. For the reasons you list he would have gone along with it purely because of how handing in his notice would have effected him. Sure having a family to support or being afraid he might take a while to get another job are understandible but that doesn't mean we have to like him or the fact he 'ran us over' for those reasons because if he was willing to sell his customers out once to benefit himself he would and will do it again.
You are correct. That's another version of that excuse, sort of anyway.
I did not imply that its OK, just wanted to point out the dilemma.
And I dont like anyone that was involved with the NGE disaster.
But I wont call people names when I dont know what really happen or whom did what.
I have a strong feeling that it could be an economic decision, above the developers head.
I have to stick with calling SOE names and say what I think about current version of SWG.
Until I know better
Tiggs actually spoke out against the NGE. All the months of Tiggs being a shill for SOE were threw out the window in the customers' eyes. And Tiggs is now working at DDO.
-As a developer, you need to create a cult of personality like Koster did. It should be your main goal if your interested in Job security. When you allow yourself to get into a project that is suicidal, you destroy your career more effectively then any "Disloyalty" to the "bosses," could ever do.
I know for a fact, that I will be very hard pressed to try another project with Freeman's name on it. This means he would have to create a near perfect MMORPG in my opinion before I would try it.
-And what should Freeman have done? He should have quit and said it was for other reasons or asked for a transfer to another project for another reason, if the NGE was being forced upon him. There are ways to weasle out of bad moves so that you can maintain your good name in both the court of public opinion and the opinion of the job pool.
--When you resubscribe to SWG, an 18 yearold Stripper finds Jesus, gives up stripping, and moves with a rolex reverend to Hawaii.
--In MMORPG's l007 is the opiate of the masses.
--The absence of evidence is not the evidence of absence!
--CCP could cut off an Eve player's fun bits, and that player would say that it was good CCP did that.
call names would be ChrisCao and Helios and that's because they have
shown on the forums what they thought of the preNGE playstyle and
players. In Freemans case I won't call him names but I'm not going to
pretend I like him or that I would be happy with him anywhere near an
MMO I play.