G&H player poll

Dalziel · December 2006

GnH looks pretty good from what I have seen. PvP looks cool, PvE looks good, and the game looks like its a well rounded game so far. So my question is, who will try the game when it's released? I know I will.

Goddyfather · December 2006

Dont think i followed this game for 6 months, and wrote 650 posts on official boards for nothing

Hell ye i am!

pureazure · December 2006

You got over 10 times my post count

Im going to try it too.

DS_K7 · January 2007

I will be trying this game in order to scout out how Star Trek Online might fair. This will be perpetual's first game, so STO will be riding on a lot. If this game ends up being ridiculously awesome, then I believe we can expect great things from STO (Which would be even better due to Trek's poor track run with Video Games)

xauss · January 2007

haha - you might get an even less biased sample if you put this poll on GnH's own forums!

netboyz · January 2007

Don't expect too much from this game. Reasons:

1) Perpetual's first MMO

2) Perpetual's team has virtually no MMO experience

3) Over 15 months delayed thus far (original release date of October 2005 was FAR missed). Therefore they don't know what they are doing.

4) Their lead designer comes from squad-based tactical shooter background, which really lacks any crossover with MMO's

5) Perpetual has had all kinds of money/funding problems, which forces them to put together never ending demoes of the game, which takes the dev team's focus off actual development, resulting in the team spinning its wheels (this is probably the #1 reason why the game will be mediocre at best)

6) Subject matter = *yawn*

Stop being a fanboi and look at games objectively.

xauss · January 2007

Originally posted by netboyz

Don't expect too much from this game. Reasons:

1) Perpetual's first MMO & 2) Perpetual's team has virtually no MMO experience

not necessarily a bad thing, since it allows greater degree of original thinking, your reasoning would mean no MMOs would ever make it in the first place! SHEESH

3) Over 15 months delayed thus far (original release date of October 2005 was FAR missed). Therefore they don't know what they are doing.

ROFLMAO - they increased the core Alpha tester base from 50 people to 400 in the last coupla months

4) Their lead designer comes from squad-based tactical shooter background, which really lacks any crossover with MMO's

everyone has to start somewhere, and Steig Hedlund (Starcraft, Diablo II lead designer) already has 2 of the biggest ever selling titles under his belt

5) Perpetual has had all kinds of money/funding problems, which forces them to put together never ending demoes of the game, which takes the dev team's focus off actual development, resulting in the team spinning its wheels (this is probably the #1 reason why the game will be mediocre at best)

so you are both a PE accountant and developer? - i think if you had any credibility left your reasoning here would make you look more rediculous, but clearly you are a little troll with no idea - probably a WAR or AoC fanboi

6) Subject matter = *yawn*

another elves and orc game *yawn* - many people are looking for something different - mythologic-historic setting is a fucking great idea

Stop being a fanboi and look at games objectively.

i think that one was aimed at yourself...

netboyz · January 2007

Originally posted by xauss

Originally posted by netboyz

Don't expect too much from this game. Reasons:
1) Perpetual's first MMO & 2) Perpetual's team has virtually no MMO experience
not necessarily a bad thing, since it allows greater degree of original thinking, your reasoning would mean no MMOs would ever make it in the first place! SHEESH
Original thinking, yes, but inexperience vastly trumps over original thinking. By lacking experience, you multiply the difficulty of your efforts by a factor of 10 or 20.
3) Over 15 months delayed thus far (original release date of October 2005 was FAR missed). Therefore they don't know what they are doing.
ROFLMAO - they increased the core Alpha tester base from 50 people to 400 in the last coupla months
This means absolutely nothing. The fact they have misjudged by such an incredible timeframe is a testament to their inexperience, which does not bode well for the game.
4) Their lead designer comes from squad-based tactical shooter background, which really lacks any crossover with MMO's
everyone has to start somewhere, and Steig Hedlund (Starcraft, Diablo II lead designer) already has 2 of the biggest ever selling titles under his belt
Stieg had nothing to do with Starcraft, which was developed at Blizzard South. Stieg was at Blizzard North. Would you want to trust your dollar to someone who was "starting somewhere"? Sure he has experience making games (and a great one at that), but his previous gameplay dynamics don't translate well to the MMO space, which is what we are all looking at here. I'm not writing him off, I'm just saying it's yet another feather in the cap of inexperience.
5) Perpetual has had all kinds of money/funding problems, which forces them to put together never ending demoes of the game, which takes the dev team's focus off actual development, resulting in the team spinning its wheels (this is probably the #1 reason why the game will be mediocre at best)
so you are both a PE accountant and developer? - i think if you had any credibility left your reasoning here would make you look more rediculous, but clearly you are a little troll with no idea - probably a WAR or AoC fanboi
Actually, yes. I am a developer and have managed multi-million dollar budgets, so I know what it is that I speak of. And a team that has to do demo after demo does indeed end up spinning its wheels very quickly. The team then becomes disillusioned and development suffers greatly.
6) Subject matter = *yawn*
another elves and orc game *yawn* - many people are looking for something different - mythologic-historic setting is a fucking great idea
Clearly the developer has no pulse on the MMO industry. This genre doesn't even register as a blip on what it is gamers want to play.

Stop being a fanboi and look at games objectively.
i think that one was aimed at yourself...

xauss · January 2007

6) Subject matter = *yawn*

another elves and orc game *yawn* - many people are looking for something different - mythologic-historic setting is a fucking great idea

Clearly the developer has no pulse on the MMO industry. This genre doesn't even register as a blip on what it is gamers want to play.

from one of MMORPG's own polls. ancient civilisations aren't even an option - i wonder where greco-roman mythology option would have come since the nearest option (Medieval) won by a street...?

Western High Fantasy

7.8%

Mech / Robot

4.3%

Eastern High Fantasy

3.8%

Manga / Anime Fantasy

9.5%

Medieval Fantasy

42.3%

Sci-Fi

19.3%

Space based

4.7%

Super Hero

2.7%

Real World War

3.5%

Real Life

2.0%

pureazure · January 2007

What are you on about, in the EAR audio interview it says he was part of Starcraft, and and I'm sure Stieg would have corrected him if it was wrong.

Please stop speading blatent lies.

What exactly are these money problems, or were they more lies, like everything else ?

xauss · January 2007

Originally posted by pureazure

What are you on about, in the EAR audio interview it says he was part of Starcraft, and and I'm sure Stieg would have corrected him if it was wrong.

Please stop speading blatent lies.

What exactly are these money problems, or were they more lies, like everything else ?

ah you smelt it too? but the big pile of bull shit is kinda hard to miss.

netboyz · January 2007

Originally posted by pureazure

What are you on about, in the EAR audio interview it says he was part of Starcraft, and and I'm sure Stieg would have corrected him if it was wrong.

Please stop speading blatent lies.

What exactly are these money problems, or were they more lies, like everything else ?

Here are the credits for Starcraft:

http://www.mobygames.com/game/windows/starcraft/credits

Now show me where Stieg's name is on that list. Stop believing everything you hear and do some research for yourself. Blizzard South developed Starcraft. Stieg worked at Blizzard North. There is no crossover between studio work.

tvalentine · January 2007

LOL wasnt World of Warcraft Blizzard's first MMO too ........ (diablo is a deathmatch game, their not the same)

xauss · January 2007

Originally posted by netboyz

Here are the credits for Starcraft:
http://www.mobygames.com/game/windows/starcraft/credits
Now show me where Stieg's name is on that list. Stop believing everything you hear and do some research for yourself. Blizzard South developed Starcraft. Stieg worked at Blizzard North. There is no crossover between studio work.

should you chose to accept a 3rd party as a your source for absolute fact, you probably wouldnt want to listen to an interview with Steig found here:- http://evilavatarradio.com/audio/EAR.Interview.Steig.Hedlund.mp3 enjoy...

u might find a little section regarding databases giving credits to those involved with game design interesting, where Steig compares databases for the game industry to those available for movies...

"I really like things like the internet movie databases that are online... its encyclopaedic in so far as every actor, director and writer, and everything like that is done in the film industry... Things like mobygames sort of attempt that, but a lot of the information isnt there a lot of the time, and there is no standardisation as far as the credits, and there is a lot of things where it doesnt really come off a lot of the time" (Steig Hedlund)

and in case you are still in doubt...

"That was something we really struggled with a lot on starcraft, was how it was different from Warcraft. And our watchword for that was 'Orcs-in-space'. So if it became sort of orcs-in-space, we thought - no, we are going the wrong way - we have to fix this". (Steig Hedlund)

game - set - and match

k.thx.bye - thank you for playing

pureazure · January 2007

Originally posted by xauss
game - set - and match
k.thx.bye - thank you for playing

netboyz · January 2007

Originally posted by xauss

Originally posted by netboyz

Here are the credits for Starcraft:
http://www.mobygames.com/game/windows/starcraft/credits
Now show me where Stieg's name is on that list. Stop believing everything you hear and do some research for yourself. Blizzard South developed Starcraft. Stieg worked at Blizzard North. There is no crossover between studio work.

should you chose to accept a 3rd party as a your source for absolute fact, you probably wouldnt want to listen to an interview with Steig found here:- http://evilavatarradio.com/audio/EAR.Interview.Steig.Hedlund.mp3 enjoy...

u might find a little section regarding databases giving credits to those involved with game design interesting, where Steig compares databases for the game industry to those available for movies...

"I really like things like the internet movie databases that are online... its encyclopaedic in so far as every actor, director and writer, and everything like that is done in the film industry... Things like mobygames sort of attempt that, but a lot of the information isnt there a lot of the time, and there is no standardisation as far as the credits, and there is a lot of things where it doesnt really come off a lot of the time" (Steig Hedlund)

and in case you are still in doubt...

"That was something we really struggled with a lot on starcraft, was how it was different from Warcraft. And our watchword for that was 'Orcs-in-space'. So if it became sort of orcs-in-space, we thought - no, we are going the wrong way - we have to fix this". (Steig Hedlund)

game - set - and match

k.thx.bye - thank you for playing

If you were familiar with how Mobygames, the IMDB of the game industry, accepts credits (and box art, etc.), you would know that the credits are taken from the game's manual, which in the game industry is the definitive listing of who worked on a game. Go pick up a manual for Starcraft, look in it, and compare the names; you'll find them identical.

Newer games from some companies (like EA) don't include a listing of credits. In those cases, the credits are taken from the credits listed in the game itself (accessed typically from an options menu).

While at Red Storm, Stieg was known to take credit for other people's work as well, hence it doesn't surprise me that he makes the claim, on the record, that he worked on Starcraft, when in reality it is refuted by the official list of credits.

Believe what you want. Don't blame me for your ultimate disappointment of G&H (if it is ever released) and for your waste of $$$ spent on it.

aristoculous · January 2007

Originally posted by xauss

Originally posted by netboyz

Here are the credits for Starcraft:
http://www.mobygames.com/game/windows/starcraft/credits
Now show me where Stieg's name is on that list. Stop believing everything you hear and do some research for yourself. Blizzard South developed Starcraft. Stieg worked at Blizzard North. There is no crossover between studio work.

should you chose to accept a 3rd party as a your source for absolute fact, you probably wouldnt want to listen to an interview with Steig found here:- http://evilavatarradio.com/audio/EAR.Interview.Steig.Hedlund.mp3 enjoy...

u might find a little section regarding databases giving credits to those involved with game design interesting, where Steig compares databases for the game industry to those available for movies...

"I really like things like the internet movie databases that are online... its encyclopaedic in so far as every actor, director and writer, and everything like that is done in the film industry... Things like mobygames sort of attempt that, but a lot of the information isnt there a lot of the time, and there is no standardisation as far as the credits, and there is a lot of things where it doesnt really come off a lot of the time" (Steig Hedlund)

and in case you are still in doubt...

"That was something we really struggled with a lot on starcraft, was how it was different from Warcraft. And our watchword for that was 'Orcs-in-space'. So if it became sort of orcs-in-space, we thought - no, we are going the wrong way - we have to fix this". (Steig Hedlund)

game - set - and match

k.thx.bye - thank you for playing

Netboyz is right. Still have the game,ever since '97, Steig Hedlund is not in credits. In fact when I followed this Gods and heroes in early 2006, on that website it only mentioned that he was lead designer of Diablo 2, and nothing mentioned on Starcraft.

If Starcraft was one of his credits, by far the most popular RTS todate(beside C&C), then somehow I think it would have been mentioned right next to Diablo2 on gods and heroes website

xauss · January 2007

Originally posted by netboyz

While at Red Storm, Stieg was known to take credit for other people's work as well, hence it doesn't surprise me that he makes the claim, on the record, that he worked on Starcraft, when in reality it is refuted by the official list of credits.
Believe what you want. Don't blame me for your ultimate disappointment of G&H (if it is ever released) and for your waste of $$$ spent on it.

you certainly seem to have an axe to grind against both the game and steig personally

pureazure · January 2007

He seems too, but he is right, Stiegs name is not in the credits, need to get to the bottom of this.

In his Team Bio on the G&H forums it says he did work on starcraft

http://community.godsandheroes.com/jive/ann.jspa?annID=15

Why does everything have to be a conspiracy

netboyz · January 2007

Originally posted by xauss

Originally posted by netboyz

While at Red Storm, Stieg was known to take credit for other people's work as well, hence it doesn't surprise me that he makes the claim, on the record, that he worked on Starcraft, when in reality it is refuted by the official list of credits.
Believe what you want. Don't blame me for your ultimate disappointment of G&H (if it is ever released) and for your waste of $$$ spent on it.

you certainly seem to have an axe to grind against both the game and steig personally

I don't have an axe to grind against Stieg (never met him personally) or the game at all. Here is my reasoning for why I posted this in the first place:

I've seen the game, played the game, and IMO it's not promising. It quite honestly has no redeeming traits and isn't going to be among the top-10 MMO's out there.
I've interviewed several designers who used to work at Red Storm, and they all told me Stieg would often take credit for their ideas, or for ideas that came from other people. He was notorious for that. Having been in this industry for 10+ years, one thing I cannot stand for is people taking credit for the work of other people. That is a HUGE taboo.
A buddy of mine went to work at Perpetual about a year ago, and he left after 1.5 months. He said it was the most f'd up dev studio he's worked at and they had no idea how to make an MMO.

It's all anecdotal evidence, I admit. But that certainly carries much more weight than just reading their forums, digesting their propaganda, seeing their screen shots, and being a total fanboi.

aristoculous · January 2007

Originally posted by pureazure

He seems too, but he is right, Stiegs name is not in the credits, need to get to the bottom of this.

In his Team Bio on the G&H forums it says he did work on starcraft

http://community.godsandheroes.com/jive/ann.jspa?annID=15

Why does everything have to be a conspiracy

cant open that link. Regardless, why would packaged game(starcraft) have names of other developers but not his?

pureazure · January 2007

The link works fine, you gotta manually paste it in the browser

Game Design

Blizzard Entertainment

Doesn't that have the potential to mean any number of people ? There is only a senior designer 'catagory' for credits.

Moirae · January 2007

Maybe. There's a bunch of games I'm thinking about trying but I'd like to wait until the NDA is lifted on all of them to make a decision on whether I'll spend the money on it or not. Thing is, I've heard alot of people talk about how great some games are, and then I try them and hate them (WoW, DAoC). So, we'll see. I had alot of hopes for LOTRO but, after betaing, you couldn't pay me to play the game.

This game.... we'll see. It looks good but whats released before the game opens for public play is generally filled with propaganda.

Man1ac · January 2007

Originally posted by netboyz
Don't expect too much from this game. Reasons:
3) Over 15 months delayed thus far (original release date of October 2005 was FAR missed). Therefore they don't know what they are doing.
You said they have no MMO experience so they obviously cannot predict a decent release date.

Stop being a fanboi and look at games objectively.
Stop acting like you know how this game is game is going to turn out. you don't know, you have'nt even played the open beat since it isn't even out!! Persistent worlds have bags of time to make this game brilliant.

SUMB44 · January 2007

I plan on giving this a shot. I've been waiting for/watching this develop for some time now. I'll probably try this before jumping into VGSoH. I'll be eagerly reading the forums after VG goes live though to see read the user feedback over the months leading up to the June release of G&H. I'm also watching and waiting for PotBS and AoC. There's alot of potential out there for 2007 I think, it's certainly more exciting than 2006. Let's hope for the best!

LONGSTROKE · January 2007

This game looks great and i plan on spending a few years playing it DAOC was my last game and UO before that i hope G&H

brings the bang for my buck those 2 have

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