Iv still not had the chance to play Vanguard as of yet, but i look forward to doing so, iv been looking forward to it for a while. The trick here for me is to go in not expecting to much and i wont be so dissapointed, iv made the mistake many a time of getting hyped about a game only to play it and realise that it is a piece of shit, not this time my friends, this times its different, this time i dont care if its a steaming pile of kobold diarrhea, as i belive (or maybe hope is a better word) that W.A.R and AoC may just be our saviours for this year.
Anyways back to the topic, i noticed the UI was pretty much identicle a while ago whislt watching a video on youtube and even then it dissapointed me, i know UIs arent a big deal but when its pretty much spot on itdenticle then it is taking the piss abit really. Imagine XBox and Playstation both looking identicle, what kind of BS would that be.
Exactly, yes. Thats what im thinking.
Garrik
________________________________
"once upon a midnight dreary, while i porn surfed, weak and weary, over many a strange and spurious site of 'hot xxx galore'. While i clicked my fav'rite bookmark, suddenly there came a warning, and my heart was filled with mourning, mourning for my dear amour, " 'Tis not possible!", i muttered, "give me back my free hardcore!"..... quoth the server, 404."
I really hoped for a dynamic world. NPC quests based on their needs. The single most part I hated about wow was the static world. Not a single NPC had any AI. They just stand there day in day out for the past 2 years. Even the encounters inside instances are totaly static. God forbid somebody found a new tactic to beat a boss, Blizzard 'patched' the game to remove the option to do the new tactic.
The only thing Vanguard is new at in this setting, is player housing and player boats. I really do like those things. But I have to be honnest, those 2 objects are just another object to grind for.
A dynamic world. Is this too much to ask? How difficult is it to create a game where the players decide how the game looks like the next day. Saddly one game that was really close was Seed. But funding forced them to launch too soon
Maybe the CEO of Sigil cares to eleborate and explain why we are all wrong. Explain to us why I should buy and play Vanguard instead of another MMO like WoW.
Ok..Im posting this because I think the NDA has been lifted. Everywhere I look people are posting about Vanguard so I am assuming it is. However, if the NDA hasnt been lifted, MODs, please delete this thread. Thanks!
With that said and done. I have to say a few things about it.
WoW......er....wow....the Devs weren't inspired by the interface of World of Warcraft at all were they? But I'll get to that later.
When I first logged on I have to say...I had no wow factor...no OOOooooOOoooo look at that!!! I was disappointed. Kinda like the same disappointment I had when I logged onto Horizen's Beta.
First of all the character creation is really weird. You design your character based on a slide scale versus solid "decisions". Example...the hair color and such were on a slide meter. I would figure it would have been easier to just make color blocks so you can easily choose your color.
Also, the graphics weren't all that impressive whatsoever. With MMOs pushing out increadible graphic MMOs this new year, I was a little discouraged by the lack of detail they placed in the characters. Now...the landscape was done well and the armor is nice. However, everyone pretty much looks the same. Not as bad as Lineage ][ but close.
WoW similiarities.
The first hint that I got that this game borrowed a LOT of artistic rendering from WoW was in the character creation. When I was creating my dwarf, I realized...wow....(no pun intended) the beard designs are virtual clones of Blizzard's Dwarves beards. I loaded up WoW to make sure and sure enough the dwarves beards in Vanguard and WoW were virtually identical. Right down to the Celtic bands that held the braided french twist hiar together.
After spending about 5 minutes creating my character (didnt take much....Vanguard is seriously lacking in customization) I logged into the world. Hoping to get a breath ful of awe and wonder, I did not. The first thing I noticed about the ingame UI was how EERILY similiar and identical the hotbars were to WoW. Right down to the right and left artistic designs at the ends of the hotbar right to the FPS meter and the bag setup and skill set up icons. Everything screamed WoW. I thought to myself, "Jeebus....was anything original?"
Then I took my first quest. Simple enough. Very simple enough. Since the combat was set up 100% just like WoW, the learning curve was 32 seconds long (maybe less). I completed my first mission!!! yes!!! I ran back to the quest giver and then I got another unoriginal thing slapped right in my face.
If you ever played wow, you'll know that when y ou return to the quest giver after completing the quest, you'll get this brief drumroll that tells you you have completed the quest and receive XP. Vanguard does the same thing. SAME EXACT DAMN drumroll too. It was as if they recorded the thing and just coded into their UI.
Now, the funny thing is when I mentioned this general chat the responses I got. Here is an example:
"Me: Is it just me or is the UI setup in Vanguard curiously similiar to that in World of Warcraft"
"Guina: Yes, that's what I've been saying!"
"Kilia: I wish people stop saying that. It's not. Every MMO copies itself when making a new MMO. It helps the players not to always have to relearn everything. Besides, they didn't copy it from WoW....EQ2 is set up the same way."
"Me: EQ2 looks nothing like this. Are you sure you're talking about the same game"
"Lucy: This doesn't look anything like WoW! Its not as cartoony"
"Me: Im talking baout the interface...not the graphics...."
"Kilia: I mean think about it....every car has a steering wheel....are they copying from one another"
"Me: that analogy is horrible! Every car needs a steering wheel. However, if a company designed a steering wheel that is shaped like donkey kong and then you saw a nother car 3 years later that has a steeringwheel the shape of donkey koong but in a other color do you think they copied?"
"Kilia: huh? "
"Me: Yeah....thought so"
Anyways, about 20 minutes later is was crazy to see the sheer amount of people who actually aid "You know what...you're right.....this does look like WoW"
I played up to lvl 22 and then I pretty much threw in the hat. It reminded me a lot of SWG legacy quests. Sure, there is a lot to do first the first twenty lvls but after that, it drops hard core in the amount of quests you get. From then one its just mindless grinding."
I've got a bad feeling Vanguard will be another greatly anticpated game that failed to deliver based on its hype. Crap.....im loosing faith fast in people making good MMOs. Long gone are the glory days of notable MMOs.
that whole story is ONE BIG LIE! i was by chance doing some crafting then, and there was NO ONE agreeing with you it all ended up with a huge flame war over different games
So the UI looks like WoW....why again is that a bad thing? It's a good UI, I just don't get how having WoW's UI is a deal breaker for some, especially when you can fully customize the UI or download some other one you do like off the net.
When I downloaded a modified WoW UI to play EQ2, did EQ2 suddenly become a hack game not worthy of playing? Cuz apparently that UI's presence in Vanguard is a dealbreaker for some, not to mention the fact that you can change it or replace it.....
Maybe its bad because you think that the developers just threw it in so they wouldn't have to work. In 5 years of development, and working in a rl beaurocracy, I can assure you they had hours upon hours if not days upon days of dicussion about what the UI should be. It is highly likely that people argued and argued and argued and finally settled on the UI they have. My God, I wanted to move a chair in my office and didn't get approval for 3 months, so I'm sure the UI wasn't just 'tossed in".
Pick some real criticisms.
Think I'm a Vanbois? Here's my criticism of the game. I think it should do more to grab the newbs. It doesn't start in the graphically coolest parts of the game. It doesn't have a compelling first quest series. I know why they did this, to ease people into the complexity without overwhelming them, but on the other hand, you should say "Wow" when you first enter the world. I'm just sorry we live in an adhd society with no patience, optimized for a commercial every 12 minutes and an explosion upon return.
PS I confirm the Adrianne post. He has misrepresented that conversation. No one agreed that having the UI from WoW was a bad thing. When he saw he had not found safe harbor in the chat channel, he quickly shut up....or i turned off the chat, can't remember. If you are wondering about how its possible that 2 of us actually saw that conversation, realize that the channels cover have a continent and many many chunks (Vanguard version of zones). In addition, it happened yesterday, so I highly doubt this guy is lvl 22. Seems a long time to realize the UI's are similar.
I remember the conversation cuz I laughed out loud when I saw it. It was obvious this guy was keeping up with the Vanhaters posts, got the beta, downloaded, thought he'd find a community receptive to Van hating and was quickly squelched when he realized that people are actually enjoying the game. I suspect we created another monster who played for 10 lvls, got butt hurt, took his ball and went home to mmorpg to whine.
Then you have people like me who wonder in vain when they'll stop making me-too dwarf, fairy and elf fantasy games and move on to something truly unique and original.
"Me: Is it just me or is the UI setup in Vanguard curiously similiar to that in World of Warcraft"
"Guina: Yes, that's what I've been saying!"
"Kilia: I wish people stop saying that. It's not. Every MMO copies itself when making a new MMO. It helps the players not to always have to relearn everything. Besides, they didn't copy it from WoW....EQ2 is set up the same way."
"Me: EQ2 looks nothing like this. Are you sure you're talking about the same game"
"Lucy: This doesn't look anything like WoW! Its not as cartoony"
"Me: Im talking baout the interface...not the graphics...."
"Kilia: I mean think about it....every car has a steering wheel....are they copying from one another"
"Me: that analogy is horrible! Every car needs a steering wheel. However, if a company designed a steering wheel that is shaped like donkey kong and then you saw a nother car 3 years later that has a steeringwheel the shape of donkey koong but in a other color do you think they copied?"
"Kilia: huh? "
"Me: Yeah....thought so"
that whole story is ONE BIG LIE! i was by chance doing some crafting then, and there was NO ONE agreeing with you it all ended up with a huge flame war over different games
ok
can you tell me when I had this conversation per chance? If you think this conversation occured today then you are wrong and it further proved my point that people are talking about WoW and Vanguard similiarities.
People who have to create conspiracy and hate threads to further a cause lacks in intellectual comprehension of diversity.
Then you have people like me who wonder in vain when they'll stop making me-too dwarf, fairy and elf fantasy games and move on to something truly unique and original.
Age of Conan and Warhammer online do look different and have some interesting things about them, but Vanguard?
Tell me Vanboys, what is it that Vanguard will do that all the other MMORPGs haven't?
dwrafs elves and orcs slinging swords and mana in a graphical MMO game were new ten years ago. Nothing new coming down the pike as far as I can tell in fantasy. Now all they can do is polish and make more fun. Vanguard sorta missed the boat in that respect as far as I amn concerned. Speaking of boats though, PoBS will be good and different if they can make it fun.
OK , enuff about the WoW >> Vanguard thing , damn it >< . its another game , if u wanna play it , play it , if not , psss dont play it , that simple
and btw , the game isnt out yet and its already reviewed in its beta phase
U wanna know why WoW was succsess .... because there was no competition , unless u liked FFXI or L2 or EQ2 THATS IT .....
im not a WoW hater nor a Vanfanboy . i like both . but please , stop bashing games , and besides u people are more stupid because ure following the reviews . thats kinda stupid , play the game for yourself , sure , the reviews gives a good idea of the game and all , but what if the reviewer had bad experiences or have WoW point of View .
I look vanguard more mature than WoW . WoW itself got a cartoonsh look , more apealing to the 13 years old kids . this is my idea of the game
and ure going to say "X game is copying X game idea" well if u look something that its kinda doing good .... dont tell me ure gonna try "That pice of pie for yourself" ... thats plain buissnes people , what is succses , it sells
and btw , if people are going crazy about the "wyvern" in WoW ... thats a plan copy of Estern Games ...... Lineage 2 ....... Wyvern for 200 milion adenas at the Enchanted Valley . in the quest for the strider , if u guys remember lol , its not a transparent rail , its the true freedom , not that cheap griffon from WoW lol and i hope i can fly as high as i want in WoW with the so-called "Wyvern"
Good day people . im out . bash me if u want ^^ i dont care :P
"Me: Is it just me or is the UI setup in Vanguard curiously similiar to that in World of Warcraft"
"Guina: Yes, that's what I've been saying!"
"Kilia: I wish people stop saying that. It's not. Every MMO copies itself when making a new MMO. It helps the players not to always have to relearn everything. Besides, they didn't copy it from WoW....EQ2 is set up the same way."
"Me: EQ2 looks nothing like this. Are you sure you're talking about the same game"
"Lucy: This doesn't look anything like WoW! Its not as cartoony"
"Me: Im talking baout the interface...not the graphics...."
"Kilia: I mean think about it....every car has a steering wheel....are they copying from one another"
"Me: that analogy is horrible! Every car needs a steering wheel. However, if a company designed a steering wheel that is shaped like donkey kong and then you saw a nother car 3 years later that has a steeringwheel the shape of donkey koong but in a other color do you think they copied?"
"Kilia: huh? "
"Me: Yeah....thought so"
that whole story is ONE BIG LIE! i was by chance doing some crafting then, and there was NO ONE agreeing with you it all ended up with a huge flame war over different games
ok
can you tell me when I had this conversation per chance? If you think this conversation occured today then you are wrong and it further proved my point that people are talking about WoW and Vanguard similiarities.
No, and she isn't even the one who said a time it was me. And I didn't say today, it was last night 1/6/07.
And lets say that it wasn't your conversation, as you say how it validates your point that folks are saying its a WoW rip off....
that would mean adriaans saw a lone person compare it to WoW and get shot down by many others
I saw a lone person who compared it to WoW and got shot down by many others
And you as a lone person compared it to WoW and got shot down by many others.
Sounds like three people who think its similar to WoW and many, many, many others who think you 3 should get a clue.
What the heck are you talking about?.I just played the beta and right off the hop this game is 100% a clone of everquest.It has nothing to do with WOW whatsoever ,as a matter of fact everquest was a game long before WOW was even a thought.It just shows how many dummies come out of the WOW environmnt,thinking there game of WOW is god and the supreme game of all.I have said it once and ill say it again WOW is pure average on every scale.ALL and i mean ALL of it's ideas have been done before,so there is NOTHING ground breaking in WOW whatsoever.If you ever played everquest before ,it would take all of 5 minutes to realize this game is an exact clone of everquest.For ANYONE to even mention WOW on any regards to MMO gaming is just dumb ,because WOW did not invent anything new to the genre nor did they do anything better.ALL WOW did was make it easier so that loners can solo all through the game never having to interact with others if they so choose.That makes WOW a great game? rflmao i think not.So quit comparing vanguard or any other game to WOW it makes me bitter everytime i see it .It's makes WOW players look like they have never ever played any other game than WOW.BAH!
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
I have played around 20 hours of VSoH now and I doubt I will ever play more than 25. I will give it one more go closer to release, but the game isnt going to change dramatically and its not the lag and the bugs that turn me off.... its the game itself.
VSoH is boring, uninspired and does absolutely nothing to advance the genre in any way whatsoever. After the massive amount of ground breaking content that was supposed to be basic features of this game, all I can say is, BULL&*#! There is nothing new or innovative about this game it is just a cookie cutter MMO released at a time when the last thing the industry needs is more cookie cutter games.
I was actually hoping VSoH would be my next major MMO and as a EQ1 Vet of several years I had a lot of faith in BMQ to produce something decent. Instead we get something that isnt even as original as Archlord, has an even more simplified quest system than WoW, a less imaginative and populated world then UO and PvP/RvR that isnt even in the same league as DAoC.
So what does that leave us with.... ? Basically nothing.... If VSoH never even existed, no one would notice it was missing.
Sigil had the opportunity to release a next gen MMO and they settled for a clone cash cow. In the end it is the industry that suffers as more and more experienced gamers basically give up on this genre....
Im this close myself....
+-+-+-+-+-+ "MMOs, for people that like think chatting is like a skill or something, rotflol" http://purepwnage.com -+-+-+-+-+-+ "Far away across the field, the tolling of the iron bell, calls the faithful to their knees. To hear the softly spoken magic spell" Pink Floyd-Dark Side of the Moon
Im with you 100% Enigma I have played around 20 hours of VSoH now and I doubt I will ever play more than 25. I will give it one more go closer to release, but the game isnt going to change dramatically and its not the lag and the bugs that turn me off.... its the game itself. VSoH is boring, uninspired and does absolutely nothing to advance the genre in any way whatsoever. After the massive amount of ground breaking content that was supposed to be basic features of this game, all I can say is, BULL&*#! There is nothing new or innovative about this game it is just a cookie cutter MMO released at a time when the last thing the industry needs is more cookie cutter games. I was actually hoping VSoH would be my next major MMO and as a EQ1 Vet of several years I had a lot of faith in BMQ to produce something decent. Instead we get something that isnt even as original as Archlord, has an even more simplified quest system than WoW, a less imaginative and populated world then UO and PvP/RvR that isnt even in the same league as DAoC. So what does that leave us with.... ? Basically nothing.... If VSoH never even existed, no one would notice it was missing. Sigil had the opportunity to release a next gen MMO and they settled for a clone cash cow. In the end it is the industry that suffers as more and more experienced gamers basically give up on this genre.... Im this close myself....
Thank you!!!!
Everyone saw the part of my little review of how it was very similiar to WoW but they never bothered reading the rest of it and you hit the nail on the head.
Who cares if they copied from WoW or EQ1 or Mork and Mindy. The point is, Vanguard offers us absolutely nothing new under the sun with nothing to give us to say
"WOW!!! Now this is a friggin awesome game"
The quests are way too simplified (like they designed it for people with an IQ of 12), the graphics are halfassed and no effort involved, the storylines seemed like they were put together while half the damn development team was drunk on Heineken and it does not immerse me in the game whatsoever.
There was only one other game that disappointed me as much as Vanguard has and that was DnDOnline.
I said the same three words for both games when I first logged on (abbreviated here):
W - T - F
People who have to create conspiracy and hate threads to further a cause lacks in intellectual comprehension of diversity.
Man i feel sorry for you guys , you been there done that . i dont think theres a game on the market you guys could enjoy . Name one game that you have played that you didnt have to over look some faults to enjoy .
you guys are waiting for a game thats not going to be made for 10 or 15 years if even than , have fun wallowing in your misery . Like what do you want for starter quest,s in an mmo. Oh here i know your level one and all but could you run over that hill and solo that army of undead . Poor little warrior comes back well am level 47 now can i have my 5 copper now
Have fun waiting for what ever it takes to turn your crank, but i have a feeling your going to be waiting a long time
Man i feel sorry for you guys , you been there done that . i dont think theres a game on the market you guys could enjoy . Name one game that you have played that you didnt have to over look some faults to enjoy . you guys are waiting for a game thats not going to be made for 10 or 15 years if even than , have fun wallowing in your misery . Like what do you want for starter quest,s in an mmo. Oh here i know your level one and all but could you run over that hill and solo that army of undead . Poor little warrior comes back well am level 47 now can i have my 5 copper now Have fun waiting for what ever it takes to turn your crank, but i have a feeling your going to be waiting a long time
I feel about Vanguard much like Enigma and Razorback. I have been playing mmorpg´s for a long time and even though Vanguard is often referred to be for us "veterans", at least I´m not really interested in the same old anymore, and my opinion was made over years worth of being part of the beta.
The reason why I quoted you was that at least I didn´t have to wait for any new MMO. I found EVE to be just what I was looking for. I am not gonna start listing what I like about it because that will just turn in to flamewar but I would urge longtime MMO players try it if you are bored with the lack of progress in MMO genre atm and haven´t tried it yet.
Originally posted by swede2 Man i feel sorry for you guys , you been there done that . i dont think theres a game on the market you guys could enjoy . Name one game that you have played that you didnt have to over look some faults to enjoy . you guys are waiting for a game thats not going to be made for 10 or 15 years if even than , have fun wallowing in your misery . Like what do you want for starter quest,s in an mmo. Oh here i know your level one and all but could you run over that hill and solo that army of undead . Poor little warrior comes back well am level 47 now can i have my 5 copper now Have fun waiting for what ever it takes to turn your crank, but i have a feeling your going to be waiting a long time
Well, MMORPG.com is basically a forum for jaded MMORPG players, isn't it? We flame games, we occasionally talk about politics or bullshit in off-topic, and we generally make merry like jaded bastards do. It's a bit like a bar. You walk into the joint and see twenty guys sitting at the counter leaning over a drink, all pining over their lost love, dreaming of what might be. Our drinks taste good, if we could enjoy them, but we've drunk so many that we can barely taste anything. That's the long and short of it, no?
Seriously, though, very few people here are that far gone. I think most of the criticisms leveled at Vanguard are pretty fair, to be honest.
Thank you for the review and taking time to put your thoughts into words .
I was especialy interested in your last words Enigma stated Crap...im losing faith fast in people making good mmo's.Long gone are the glory days of good MMO's.
Very astute and I also agree. But i think there are several more reasons then just developements and busines choosing a model team and plan that may work.
We have advent of the seconds market ige ebay that destorys games economies . Farmers that farm entire areas, the inablity for games to fully intergrate choice of game play solo verses group and the haves verses the have nots.
While truely casual verses heavy are another argument all together i truely think it is US that have changed. We are tired of upgrading video card up teenth time. We are tired of bitotorrent, patch day blues, GAME EXPERIANCE MAY CHANGE and basicaly i think alot of us are just plain burnt out.
While most of us have met end game challenges in one or more mmorpgs i seriously doubt given current circumstances this genera in the same ole same ole state can create the sensation a second time with wow phenomom or even the longevity of orignal UO or EQ.
Think for a minute remember when Eq was fresh that was years ago games have changed and SO have we.
We also have the gap between console gamers and those willing to pay a monthly fee. Unless there is added content folks get bored and move on.
When nge hit others found new homes and some left the mmorpg world and find they just do not miss it like they thought they would.
Perhaps if we are lucky some top notch console games will come out for wii and xbox 360 and keep us entertained in the mean time till something else comes along we can sink our time into and feel good about it .
Damn people on these boards are a bunch of e-tards.
Just because WoW was the first mmorpg u ever played doesnt mean that it was the first game for everyone else. Comparing games like you are doing is just rediculous. So what the UI looks similar, well if the UI works then use it if people like it. And i mean damn, any game you see with some health bars and quickbars you gonna say looks like wow just for those reasons.
One thing vanguard does it put all the things that other games have (player housing,decent crafting,pvp,guild cities and diplomacy - all things that havent all been put in one game btu are spread through numerous games) and put them into one, with nice gfx and a massive world. That is the main reason i'll be playing. WoW is a basic mmo that was fun in its era of non competition and for mass advertising that good many first time mmo players into the genre.
You all ask for something new etc, but what exactly are you looking for? What more can be put into a game to make you want to play it.
People complain about quest system, what else do u frigging want? A pink magical fairy to appear in an explosion of colour and explain your quest to you while you fly around on a cloud.
Ok..Im posting this because I think the NDA has been lifted. Everywhere I look people are posting about Vanguard so I am assuming it is. However, if the NDA hasnt been lifted, MODs, please delete this thread. Thanks!
With that said and done. I have to say a few things about it.
WoW......er....wow....the Devs weren't inspired by the interface of World of Warcraft at all were they? But I'll get to that later.
When I first logged on I have to say...I had no wow factor...no OOOooooOOoooo look at that!!! I was disappointed. Kinda like the same disappointment I had when I logged onto Horizen's Beta.
First of all the character creation is really weird. You design your character based on a slide scale versus solid "decisions". Example...the hair color and such were on a slide meter. I would figure it would have been easier to just make color blocks so you can easily choose your color.
Also, the graphics weren't all that impressive whatsoever. With MMOs pushing out increadible graphic MMOs this new year, I was a little discouraged by the lack of detail they placed in the characters. Now...the landscape was done well and the armor is nice. However, everyone pretty much looks the same. Not as bad as Lineage ][ but close.
WoW similiarities.
The first hint that I got that this game borrowed a LOT of artistic rendering from WoW was in the character creation. When I was creating my dwarf, I realized...wow....(no pun intended) the beard designs are virtual clones of Blizzard's Dwarves beards. I loaded up WoW to make sure and sure enough the dwarves beards in Vanguard and WoW were virtually identical. Right down to the Celtic bands that held the braided french twist hiar together.
After spending about 5 minutes creating my character (didnt take much....Vanguard is seriously lacking in customization) I logged into the world. Hoping to get a breath ful of awe and wonder, I did not. The first thing I noticed about the ingame UI was how EERILY similiar and identical the hotbars were to WoW. Right down to the right and left artistic designs at the ends of the hotbar right to the FPS meter and the bag setup and skill set up icons. Everything screamed WoW. I thought to myself, "Jeebus....was anything original?"
Then I took my first quest. Simple enough. Very simple enough. Since the combat was set up 100% just like WoW, the learning curve was 32 seconds long (maybe less). I completed my first mission!!! yes!!! I ran back to the quest giver and then I got another unoriginal thing slapped right in my face.
If you ever played wow, you'll know that when y ou return to the quest giver after completing the quest, you'll get this brief drumroll that tells you you have completed the quest and receive XP. Vanguard does the same thing. SAME EXACT DAMN drumroll too. It was as if they recorded the thing and just coded into their UI.
Now, the funny thing is when I mentioned this general chat the responses I got. Here is an example:
"Me: Is it just me or is the UI setup in Vanguard curiously similiar to that in World of Warcraft"
"Guina: Yes, that's what I've been saying!"
"Kilia: I wish people stop saying that. It's not. Every MMO copies itself when making a new MMO. It helps the players not to always have to relearn everything. Besides, they didn't copy it from WoW....EQ2 is set up the same way."
"Me: EQ2 looks nothing like this. Are you sure you're talking about the same game"
"Lucy: This doesn't look anything like WoW! Its not as cartoony"
"Me: Im talking baout the interface...not the graphics...."
"Kilia: I mean think about it....every car has a steering wheel....are they copying from one another"
"Me: that analogy is horrible! Every car needs a steering wheel. However, if a company designed a steering wheel that is shaped like donkey kong and then you saw a nother car 3 years later that has a steeringwheel the shape of donkey koong but in a other color do you think they copied?"
"Kilia: huh? "
"Me: Yeah....thought so"
Anyways, about 20 minutes later is was crazy to see the sheer amount of people who actually aid "You know what...you're right.....this does look like WoW"
I played up to lvl 22 and then I pretty much threw in the hat. It reminded me a lot of SWG legacy quests. Sure, there is a lot to do first the first twenty lvls but after that, it drops hard core in the amount of quests you get. From then one its just mindless grinding."
I've got a bad feeling Vanguard will be another greatly anticpated game that failed to deliver based on its hype. Crap.....im loosing faith fast in people making good MMOs. Long gone are the glory days of notable MMOs.
The whole drawven beard thing along with the drum roll from a quest giver is a deal-breaker for me... If Sigil doesn't have enough common sense to create an altogether fresh experience with new visuals and new sounds, this speaks volumes as to how Vanguard will play out throughout ALL levels... I was always curious as to why Microsoft dumped VSOH, I now know why, and kudos to MS for doing that! Age of Conan sounds like just the MMO I have been waiting for, while Vanguard is everything everybody has dreaded...
Thanks but no thanks, I am not interested in WoW clones, after all, we can all go play WoW if we want...
I don't think people are objecting to the UI working like WoW's does - that's a no brainer in my opinion, let players work in ways that are intuitive. But the vanguard UI doesn't just have similar functionality, it has almost exactly the same implementation too. The graphics literally look like the same image files, slightly tweaked. The sound files are the same. It looks like someone photoshopped together an EQ2 scene with an old WoW Beta 1 UI.
Wow and Vanguard are both heavily based on the old Everquest game. It really is no surprise they look alike so much.
For once I agree with Gameloading.
The games are going to look alike because they're both based on EQ1
Just like EQ2 shares many similarities with WoW
any EQ clone is going to resemble WoW because, at the end of the day, WoW is an EQ clone.
Vanguard isn't a bad game. Remember it's a game designed specifically to cater to more, for lack of a better term, "hard core" MMORPG players. Not folks looking for quick and easy fun (most, but not all, WoW players). The game is meant to appeal to those who enjoyed the fact that EQ1 took a long time to accomplish things and required you to retrieve your corpse and where entire raid parties regularly wiped out. It's meant to be that way. Thus it has a bit longer starting arc than wow does.
Is that a good thing? I dunno.... I do know I won't be playing Vanguard though... I did EQ... I even did a bunch of EQ2... left for the same reason: I find raiding about as much fun as watching paint dry or grass grow or mold spread. It's also why I see no point in playing WoW... the end game is just raiding. If I want to raid? I'll go log into EQ and play characters i've already ground to level umptey-berjillion. I see no need or point in levelling up in yet another class/level based game with basically the same game mechanics and less challenge just to do the same thing at the endgame.
The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over with the same results.
EQ1: Pick a class... level up.... raid
EQ2: Pick a class... level up.... raid
WoW: Pick a class.... level up.... raid
Vanguard: Pick a class.... level up.... raid
Thanks... I got over the treadmill after EQ1... never again will I choose a game that has RAIDS as the end-game content.
Currently Playing: Dungeons and Dragons Online. Sig image Pending Still in: A couple Betas
Comments
media.arstechnica.com/articles/paedia/gaming-evolution.media/everquest-1999.jpg
WoW:
pr4y.free.fr/images/wow-hanbok1.jpg
Vanguard:
home.online.no/~rudiger/Files/Vanguard/Screenshots/ScreenShot_00000.jpg I'm not talking about the graphics, There are many years between the releases of those games, ofcourse they don't look alike in terms of graphics.
Iv still not had the chance to play Vanguard as of yet, but i look forward to doing so, iv been looking forward to it for a while. The trick here for me is to go in not expecting to much and i wont be so dissapointed, iv made the mistake many a time of getting hyped about a game only to play it and realise that it is a piece of shit, not this time my friends, this times its different, this time i dont care if its a steaming pile of kobold diarrhea, as i belive (or maybe hope is a better word) that W.A.R and AoC may just be our saviours for this year.
Anyways back to the topic, i noticed the UI was pretty much identicle a while ago whislt watching a video on youtube and even then it dissapointed me, i know UIs arent a big deal but when its pretty much spot on itdenticle then it is taking the piss abit really. Imagine XBox and Playstation both looking identicle, what kind of BS would that be.
Exactly, yes. Thats what im thinking.
Garrik
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"once upon a midnight dreary, while i porn surfed, weak and weary, over many a strange and spurious site of 'hot xxx galore'. While i clicked my fav'rite bookmark, suddenly there came a warning, and my heart was filled with mourning, mourning for my dear amour, " 'Tis not possible!", i muttered, "give me back my free hardcore!"..... quoth the server, 404."
I really hoped for a dynamic world. NPC quests based on their needs. The single most part I hated about wow was the static world. Not a single NPC had any AI. They just stand there day in day out for the past 2 years. Even the encounters inside instances are totaly static. God forbid somebody found a new tactic to beat a boss, Blizzard 'patched' the game to remove the option to do the new tactic.
The only thing Vanguard is new at in this setting, is player housing and player boats. I really do like those things. But I have to be honnest, those 2 objects are just another object to grind for.
A dynamic world. Is this too much to ask? How difficult is it to create a game where the players decide how the game looks like the next day. Saddly one game that was really close was Seed. But funding forced them to launch too soon
Maybe the CEO of Sigil cares to eleborate and explain why we are all wrong. Explain to us why I should buy and play Vanguard instead of another MMO like WoW.
Knowledge is Power!
Ok I'll bite.....
So the UI looks like WoW....why again is that a bad thing? It's a good UI, I just don't get how having WoW's UI is a deal breaker for some, especially when you can fully customize the UI or download some other one you do like off the net.
When I downloaded a modified WoW UI to play EQ2, did EQ2 suddenly become a hack game not worthy of playing? Cuz apparently that UI's presence in Vanguard is a dealbreaker for some, not to mention the fact that you can change it or replace it.....
Maybe its bad because you think that the developers just threw it in so they wouldn't have to work. In 5 years of development, and working in a rl beaurocracy, I can assure you they had hours upon hours if not days upon days of dicussion about what the UI should be. It is highly likely that people argued and argued and argued and finally settled on the UI they have. My God, I wanted to move a chair in my office and didn't get approval for 3 months, so I'm sure the UI wasn't just 'tossed in".
Pick some real criticisms.
Think I'm a Vanbois? Here's my criticism of the game. I think it should do more to grab the newbs. It doesn't start in the graphically coolest parts of the game. It doesn't have a compelling first quest series. I know why they did this, to ease people into the complexity without overwhelming them, but on the other hand, you should say "Wow" when you first enter the world. I'm just sorry we live in an adhd society with no patience, optimized for a commercial every 12 minutes and an explosion upon return.
PS I confirm the Adrianne post. He has misrepresented that conversation. No one agreed that having the UI from WoW was a bad thing. When he saw he had not found safe harbor in the chat channel, he quickly shut up....or i turned off the chat, can't remember. If you are wondering about how its possible that 2 of us actually saw that conversation, realize that the channels cover have a continent and many many chunks (Vanguard version of zones). In addition, it happened yesterday, so I highly doubt this guy is lvl 22. Seems a long time to realize the UI's are similar.
I remember the conversation cuz I laughed out loud when I saw it. It was obvious this guy was keeping up with the Vanhaters posts, got the beta, downloaded, thought he'd find a community receptive to Van hating and was quickly squelched when he realized that people are actually enjoying the game. I suspect we created another monster who played for 10 lvls, got butt hurt, took his ball and went home to mmorpg to whine.
Then you have people like me who wonder in vain when they'll stop making me-too dwarf, fairy and elf fantasy games and move on to something truly unique and original.
can you tell me when I had this conversation per chance? If you think this conversation occured today then you are wrong and it further proved my point that people are talking about WoW and Vanguard similiarities.
People who have to create conspiracy and hate threads to further a cause lacks in intellectual comprehension of diversity.
Tell me Vanboys, what is it that Vanguard will do that all the other MMORPGs haven't?
dwrafs elves and orcs slinging swords and mana in a graphical MMO game were new ten years ago. Nothing new coming down the pike as far as I can tell in fantasy. Now all they can do is polish and make more fun. Vanguard sorta missed the boat in that respect as far as I amn concerned. Speaking of boats though, PoBS will be good and different if they can make it fun.
I miss DAoC
OK , enuff about the WoW >> Vanguard thing , damn it >< . its another game , if u wanna play it , play it , if not , psss dont play it , that simple
and btw , the game isnt out yet and its already reviewed in its beta phase
U wanna know why WoW was succsess .... because there was no competition , unless u liked FFXI or L2 or EQ2 THATS IT .....
im not a WoW hater nor a Vanfanboy . i like both . but please , stop bashing games , and besides u people are more stupid because ure following the reviews . thats kinda stupid , play the game for yourself , sure , the reviews gives a good idea of the game and all , but what if the reviewer had bad experiences or have WoW point of View .
I look vanguard more mature than WoW . WoW itself got a cartoonsh look , more apealing to the 13 years old kids . this is my idea of the game
and ure going to say "X game is copying X game idea" well if u look something that its kinda doing good .... dont tell me ure gonna try "That pice of pie for yourself" ... thats plain buissnes people , what is succses , it sells
and btw , if people are going crazy about the "wyvern" in WoW ... thats a plan copy of Estern Games ...... Lineage 2 ....... Wyvern for 200 milion adenas at the Enchanted Valley . in the quest for the strider , if u guys remember lol , its not a transparent rail , its the true freedom , not that cheap griffon from WoW lol and i hope i can fly as high as i want in WoW with the so-called "Wyvern"
Good day people . im out . bash me if u want ^^ i dont care :P
can you tell me when I had this conversation per chance? If you think this conversation occured today then you are wrong and it further proved my point that people are talking about WoW and Vanguard similiarities.
No, and she isn't even the one who said a time it was me. And I didn't say today, it was last night 1/6/07.
And lets say that it wasn't your conversation, as you say how it validates your point that folks are saying its a WoW rip off....
that would mean adriaans saw a lone person compare it to WoW and get shot down by many others
I saw a lone person who compared it to WoW and got shot down by many others
And you as a lone person compared it to WoW and got shot down by many others.
Sounds like three people who think its similar to WoW and many, many, many others who think you 3 should get a clue.
You didn't prove your point, you made it worse.
What the heck are you talking about?.I just played the beta and right off the hop this game is 100% a clone of everquest.It has nothing to do with WOW whatsoever ,as a matter of fact everquest was a game long before WOW was even a thought.It just shows how many dummies come out of the WOW environmnt,thinking there game of WOW is god and the supreme game of all.I have said it once and ill say it again WOW is pure average on every scale.ALL and i mean ALL of it's ideas have been done before,so there is NOTHING ground breaking in WOW whatsoever.If you ever played everquest before ,it would take all of 5 minutes to realize this game is an exact clone of everquest.For ANYONE to even mention WOW on any regards to MMO gaming is just dumb ,because WOW did not invent anything new to the genre nor did they do anything better.ALL WOW did was make it easier so that loners can solo all through the game never having to interact with others if they so choose.That makes WOW a great game? rflmao i think not.So quit comparing vanguard or any other game to WOW it makes me bitter everytime i see it .It's makes WOW players look like they have never ever played any other game than WOW.BAH!
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
Im with you 100% Enigma
I have played around 20 hours of VSoH now and I doubt I will ever play more than 25. I will give it one more go closer to release, but the game isnt going to change dramatically and its not the lag and the bugs that turn me off.... its the game itself.
VSoH is boring, uninspired and does absolutely nothing to advance the genre in any way whatsoever. After the massive amount of ground breaking content that was supposed to be basic features of this game, all I can say is, BULL&*#! There is nothing new or innovative about this game it is just a cookie cutter MMO released at a time when the last thing the industry needs is more cookie cutter games.
I was actually hoping VSoH would be my next major MMO and as a EQ1 Vet of several years I had a lot of faith in BMQ to produce something decent. Instead we get something that isnt even as original as Archlord, has an even more simplified quest system than WoW, a less imaginative and populated world then UO and PvP/RvR that isnt even in the same league as DAoC.
So what does that leave us with.... ? Basically nothing.... If VSoH never even existed, no one would notice it was missing.
Sigil had the opportunity to release a next gen MMO and they settled for a clone cash cow. In the end it is the industry that suffers as more and more experienced gamers basically give up on this genre....
Im this close myself....
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"MMOs, for people that like think chatting is like a skill or something, rotflol"
http://purepwnage.com
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"Far away across the field, the tolling of the iron bell, calls the faithful to their knees. To hear the softly spoken magic spell" Pink Floyd-Dark Side of the Moon
Everyone saw the part of my little review of how it was very similiar to WoW but they never bothered reading the rest of it and you hit the nail on the head.
Who cares if they copied from WoW or EQ1 or Mork and Mindy. The point is, Vanguard offers us absolutely nothing new under the sun with nothing to give us to say
"WOW!!! Now this is a friggin awesome game"
The quests are way too simplified (like they designed it for people with an IQ of 12), the graphics are halfassed and no effort involved, the storylines seemed like they were put together while half the damn development team was drunk on Heineken and it does not immerse me in the game whatsoever.
There was only one other game that disappointed me as much as Vanguard has and that was DnDOnline.
I said the same three words for both games when I first logged on (abbreviated here):
W - T - F
People who have to create conspiracy and hate threads to further a cause lacks in intellectual comprehension of diversity.
Man i feel sorry for you guys , you been there done that . i dont think theres a game on the market you guys could enjoy . Name one game that you have played that you didnt have to over look some faults to enjoy .
you guys are waiting for a game thats not going to be made for 10 or 15 years if even than , have fun wallowing in your misery . Like what do you want for starter quest,s in an mmo. Oh here i know your level one and all but could you run over that hill and solo that army of undead . Poor little warrior comes back well am level 47 now can i have my 5 copper now
Have fun waiting for what ever it takes to turn your crank, but i have a feeling your going to be waiting a long time
I feel about Vanguard much like Enigma and Razorback. I have been playing mmorpg´s for a long time and even though Vanguard is often referred to be for us "veterans", at least I´m not really interested in the same old anymore, and my opinion was made over years worth of being part of the beta.
The reason why I quoted you was that at least I didn´t have to wait for any new MMO. I found EVE to be just what I was looking for. I am not gonna start listing what I like about it because that will just turn in to flamewar but I would urge longtime MMO players try it if you are bored with the lack of progress in MMO genre atm and haven´t tried it yet.
If I don't like it I'll just wait till Age of Conan
[center][color=darkorange][b}Wow! Much gold. So amaze![/b][/color][/center]
Well, MMORPG.com is basically a forum for jaded MMORPG players, isn't it? We flame games, we occasionally talk about politics or bullshit in off-topic, and we generally make merry like jaded bastards do. It's a bit like a bar. You walk into the joint and see twenty guys sitting at the counter leaning over a drink, all pining over their lost love, dreaming of what might be. Our drinks taste good, if we could enjoy them, but we've drunk so many that we can barely taste anything. That's the long and short of it, no?
Seriously, though, very few people here are that far gone. I think most of the criticisms leveled at Vanguard are pretty fair, to be honest.
Thank you for the review and taking time to put your thoughts into words .
I was especialy interested in your last words Enigma stated Crap...im losing faith fast in people making good mmo's.Long gone are the glory days of good MMO's.
Very astute and I also agree. But i think there are several more reasons then just developements and busines choosing a model team and plan that may work.
We have advent of the seconds market ige ebay that destorys games economies . Farmers that farm entire areas, the inablity for games to fully intergrate choice of game play solo verses group and the haves verses the have nots.
While truely casual verses heavy are another argument all together i truely think it is US that have changed. We are tired of upgrading video card up teenth time. We are tired of bitotorrent, patch day blues, GAME EXPERIANCE MAY CHANGE and basicaly i think alot of us are just plain burnt out.
While most of us have met end game challenges in one or more mmorpgs i seriously doubt given current circumstances this genera in the same ole same ole state can create the sensation a second time with wow phenomom or even the longevity of orignal UO or EQ.
Think for a minute remember when Eq was fresh that was years ago games have changed and SO have we.
We also have the gap between console gamers and those willing to pay a monthly fee. Unless there is added content folks get bored and move on.
When nge hit others found new homes and some left the mmorpg world and find they just do not miss it like they thought they would.
Perhaps if we are lucky some top notch console games will come out for wii and xbox 360 and keep us entertained in the mean time till something else comes along we can sink our time into and feel good about it .
Damn people on these boards are a bunch of e-tards.
Just because WoW was the first mmorpg u ever played doesnt mean that it was the first game for everyone else. Comparing games like you are doing is just rediculous. So what the UI looks similar, well if the UI works then use it if people like it. And i mean damn, any game you see with some health bars and quickbars you gonna say looks like wow just for those reasons.
One thing vanguard does it put all the things that other games have (player housing,decent crafting,pvp,guild cities and diplomacy - all things that havent all been put in one game btu are spread through numerous games) and put them into one, with nice gfx and a massive world. That is the main reason i'll be playing. WoW is a basic mmo that was fun in its era of non competition and for mass advertising that good many first time mmo players into the genre.
You all ask for something new etc, but what exactly are you looking for? What more can be put into a game to make you want to play it.
People complain about quest system, what else do u frigging want? A pink magical fairy to appear in an explosion of colour and explain your quest to you while you fly around on a cloud.
The whole drawven beard thing along with the drum roll from a quest giver is a deal-breaker for me... If Sigil doesn't have enough common sense to create an altogether fresh experience with new visuals and new sounds, this speaks volumes as to how Vanguard will play out throughout ALL levels... I was always curious as to why Microsoft dumped VSOH, I now know why, and kudos to MS for doing that! Age of Conan sounds like just the MMO I have been waiting for, while Vanguard is everything everybody has dreaded...
Thanks but no thanks, I am not interested in WoW clones, after all, we can all go play WoW if we want...
http://ctprofiles.net/33423
WTF are you talking about,vanbois are nicer then the fanbois
The games are going to look alike because they're both based on EQ1
Just like EQ2 shares many similarities with WoW
any EQ clone is going to resemble WoW because, at the end of the day, WoW is an EQ clone.
Vanguard isn't a bad game. Remember it's a game designed specifically to cater to more, for lack of a better term, "hard core" MMORPG players. Not folks looking for quick and easy fun (most, but not all, WoW players). The game is meant to appeal to those who enjoyed the fact that EQ1 took a long time to accomplish things and required you to retrieve your corpse and where entire raid parties regularly wiped out. It's meant to be that way. Thus it has a bit longer starting arc than wow does.
Is that a good thing? I dunno.... I do know I won't be playing Vanguard though... I did EQ... I even did a bunch of EQ2... left for the same reason: I find raiding about as much fun as watching paint dry or grass grow or mold spread. It's also why I see no point in playing WoW... the end game is just raiding. If I want to raid? I'll go log into EQ and play characters i've already ground to level umptey-berjillion. I see no need or point in levelling up in yet another class/level based game with basically the same game mechanics and less challenge just to do the same thing at the endgame.
The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over with the same results.
EQ1: Pick a class... level up.... raid
EQ2: Pick a class... level up.... raid
WoW: Pick a class.... level up.... raid
Vanguard: Pick a class.... level up.... raid
Thanks... I got over the treadmill after EQ1... never again will I choose a game that has RAIDS as the end-game content.
Currently Playing: Dungeons and Dragons Online.
Sig image Pending
Still in: A couple Betas