Spare me the pseudo psychology. If you can't stand the heat, GTFO. Simple as that. This is coming from a person claiming superiority in FPSs and yet has every MMO under the sun in his sig.
-edit-
I forgive you, but I'm not one of the "little immature twits" you seem to have a vendetta against.
You should ignore people who try to sell their playing stile as "true whatever". Especially if they advocate meaningless FPS stile PvP with 0% danger of losing something. I dont mind death penalties or losing a limited amount of unequipped items on death. You will notice I never said the true pk wants zero risk so your way off the mark there.
What we dont want is the system employed by mainly korean mmo's where for every hour you PvP you have to PvE for five hours to recouperate.
Thats not hardcore or skilled, its just a players time being taken away from what he actually wants to be doing and completely wasting it.
I dont mind death penalties or losing a limited amount of unequipped items on death. You will notice I never said the true pk wants zero risk so your way off the mark there.
What we dont want is the system employed by mainly korean mmo's where for every hour you PvP you have to PvE for five hours to recouperate.
Thats not hardcore or skilled, its just a players time being taken away from what he actually wants to be doing and completely wasting it.
Saying that you dont mind death penalties on the one side but only losing "limited amount of unequippted items" on the other just doesnt match for me.
Considering you also said:
They do not want to spend 15 minutes running back to the fight after dying this is slow, boring and simply bad game design.
They do not want to have to sit for 3 minutes to regenerate after just one fight because it is again more wasted time for no practical reason.
Makes me think the only "penalty" you accept would be 2 minutes running back to your corpse and only losing a few arrow shafts and pocket change. It just sounds like respawing in UT and running to the next bigger weapon.
Why not losing your equipment to the winner?
Why not just fight with the gear you can afford to lose?
Your play stile (aka "true pk") sounds more like wow battlegrounds then anything else to me.
The reason is victory for me is not the rewards that I may reap, but to crush my enemies, see them driven before me, and hear the lamentation of their women. I guess in order to hear the lamentation of their women the women need a reason to lament, which is where the death penalty comes into play, there is no reason to lament in WoW.
What constitutes an enemy for me is also in question, cause I kind of need a reason to fight someone. I don't have much desire to hear the lamentation of some dudes women I hardly know.
I miss Curse vs. Stain
Which Final Fantasy Character Are You? if I were to kill a titan tomorrow and no CCP employees showed up to say grats I would petition it. Waiting for: the next MMO that lets me make this macro if hp < 30 then CastSpell("heal") SpellTargetUnit("player") else CastSpell("smite") end
There's indeed three types of pvp in MMORPG's. They just aren't the types you listed in your pitifull attempt atmaking some point for the retardo faction of consentualists.
Now, after getting that out of the way, here's your three types of pvp:
- "pistols at dawn"-ism
- "quake-ism"
- actual pvp
The first is your average 'must be fair', often consentual, low-loss, mostly item based noobfest. It's fun for as long as it takes you to realise that all that time you're putting into getting to that duel is kind of wasted since every fight is a copy of the next one when you only fight pre-arranged and predetermined battles of liited scope against about equal opponents. Bad thing is that people seem to be poisoned by something they regard as "honourable values" by playing games with this system. Calling it pvp is correct, but in my book it's very dubious when a game bases all of it's pvp on such systems.
Quakism is a mixed system of either consentual or non-consentual pvp where fairness is not exactly forced upon everyone but where the simple fact that there's no loss beyond the well known walk to the healer and back to the corpse. A true quakist system manages to remove even that downtime so that a full series of back-to-back nonsensical deaths and killings can be glued together to form one big orgy of futility. This is not pvp for most of those that engage in it, since pvp implies that there's a challenge. When you die every 30 seconds after running into combat guns blazing without any tactic other then trying to see what is trying to kill you in time to kill it first I don't think there's any question as to whether the game or the breathing you need to do while playing is the greater challenge.
Now, this leaves us with number three, the stuff our dear op would like to file away under "sport engaged in by masochist, rl-impaired basement dwelling sickos with certain social shortcomings". I'd say however that freeform, fully open noncensentual pvp is the only true form of pvp in MMORPG's. There's no honour in warfare, and there most certainly *is* loss in it. If I die in the mmo is play and end up having to go and get new stuff to use in pvp resulting in a downtime of say a full playing day then that's quite ok with me. If it was the result of me being stupid enough to get ganked by a dozen ten-times-my-level, deranged sickos then that's a good time to learn about combat evasion in my world. MMO's always thrown these nice terms at you to lure you into thinking you;re playing soemthign special. Terms like "poersistant" "player-driven""active storylines" and "developing lore". 90% of the time that's utter bollocks, except in games with an open-ended competitive nature, where player actions *do* matter and where pvp might not me fair, nor honourable, but most certainly is most enjoyable and challenging. PvP is ten times the fun when there's something worth dying for even if it means spending a full day getitng back up again...
There's indeed three types of pvp in MMORPG's. They just aren't the types you listed in your pitifull attempt atmaking some point for the retardo faction of consentualists. Now, after getting that out of the way, here's your three types of pvp: - "pistols at dawn"-ism - "quake-ism" - actual pvp
The first is your average 'must be fair', often consentual, low-loss, mostly item based noobfest. It's fun for as long as it takes you to realise that all that time you're putting into getting to that duel is kind of wasted since every fight is a copy of the next one when you only fight pre-arranged and predetermined battles of liited scope against about equal opponents. Bad thing is that people seem to be poisoned by something they regard as "honourable values" by playing games with this system. Calling it pvp is correct, but in my book it's very dubious when a game bases all of it's pvp on such systems. Quakism is a mixed system of either consentual or non-consentual pvp where fairness is not exactly forced upon everyone but where the simple fact that there's no loss beyond the well known walk to the healer and back to the corpse. A true quakist system manages to remove even that downtime so that a full series of back-to-back nonsensical deaths and killings can be glued together to form one big orgy of futility. This is not pvp for most of those that engage in it, since pvp implies that there's a challenge. When you die every 30 seconds after running into combat guns blazing without any tactic other then trying to see what is trying to kill you in time to kill it first I don't think there's any question as to whether the game or the breathing you need to do while playing is the greater challenge. Now, this leaves us with number three, the stuff our dear op would like to file away under "sport engaged in by masochist, rl-impaired basement dwelling sickos with certain social shortcomings". I'd say however that freeform, fully open noncensentual pvp is the only true form of pvp in MMORPG's. There's no honour in warfare, and there most certainly *is* loss in it. If I die in the mmo is play and end up having to go and get new stuff to use in pvp resulting in a downtime of say a full playing day then that's quite ok with me. If it was the result of me being stupid enough to get ganked by a dozen ten-times-my-level, deranged sickos then that's a good time to learn about combat evasion in my world. MMO's always thrown these nice terms at you to lure you into thinking you;re playing soemthign special. Terms like "poersistant" "player-driven""active storylines" and "developing lore". 90% of the time that's utter bollocks, except in games with an open-ended competitive nature, where player actions *do* matter and where pvp might not me fair, nor honourable, but most certainly is most enjoyable and challenging. PvP is ten times the fun when there's something worth dying for even if it means spending a full day getitng back up again...
[/quote]
lol so pitiful that it blows the nonsense you wrote away. I didnt bring up the consent issue in my post even once, its a small point of contention not overly relevent but you have managed to focus on it entirely out of context.
The issue is more related to server type that can be implemented for any game rather than the more important game mechanics I am talking about.
Havok is probably one of those persons that insult you as "noob", "cheater" or "lagg" when they get beaten. Those guys are realy the best.
Nope, not me. But I agree, getting a message from a victim lets you know that you really fucked someones day. Ok cancel that then you are one of those guys that think they are Immortal and never get beaten a.k.a Gosu/LordOfPWN/God/Rul3r? I hope now im right.
Spare me the pseudo psychology. If you can't stand the heat, GTFO. Simple as that. This is coming from a person claiming superiority in FPSs and yet has every MMO under the sun in his sig.
-edit-
I forgive you, but I'm not one of the "little immature twits" you seem to have a vendetta against.
For such a "hardcore pvper", you sure play a crappy game for pvp..... EQ2? That's like playing FFXI or Ryzom for pvp...
Havok is probably one of those persons that insult you as "noob", "cheater" or "lagg" when they get beaten. Those guys are realy the best.
Nope, not me. But I agree, getting a message from a victim lets you know that you really fucked someones day. Ok cancel that then you are one of those guys that think they are Immortal and never cant get beaten a.k.a Gosu/LordOfPWN/God/Rul3r? I hope now im right.
Nope, wrong again. I'm not sure why you're trying to label me. Sometimes people are better at certain things than others, that's life. Just keep trying!!!
Originally posted by Loben
Originally posted by Havoc-PK
Spare me the pseudo psychology. If you can't stand the heat, GTFO. Simple as that. This is coming from a person claiming superiority in FPSs and yet has every MMO under the sun in his sig.
-edit-
I forgive you, but I'm not one of the "little immature twits" you seem to have a vendetta against.
For such a "hardcore pvper", you sure play a crappy game for pvp..... EQ2? That's like playing FFXI or Ryzom for pvp...
I played EQ2 because that's where my guild went....and because I wanted to see if the PvP servers were any good. It's been a bad run for PvP titles, can you blame me for wanting to try it out?
I'm a true player killer when I win and true carebear when I lose. I dont lose often.
Don't be terrorized! You're more likely to die of a car accident, drowning, fire, or murder! More people die every year from prescription drugs than terrorism LOL!
I dunno... your description of a true pvp'er makes me think you'd be better off playing first person shooters...much of what you say you don't want are trademarks of MMO"s.. .(rock, paper, scissor combat, etc)...
In FPS everyone has same gear, same chance at powerups and it really comes down to player skill. The beauty of an MMO is that by putting some hard work into the game (unfortunately, usually in the form of lots of time) you can get a leg up on your competition..which is not a bad thing, like some folks would have you believe....
I'm sort of old and slow... so last thing I want to play is a game that is totally based on skill... which is why I avoid FPS games...and stick with ones where my hard work can help me be somewhat competitve....
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
a) people that pvp for personal reasons, wow players
b) people that pvp to alter the game, eve players
small skirmishes are fun in eve, but the most fun I had in eve was in the last throws of the curse alliance when I knew that when I logged on I was probably going to be stuck in a station and if not I was going to be fighting outnumbered the whole night long. But god damn we got away from some camps and ripped some shit up during that time, cause even though people were fighting us that just made those lousy stain miners that much more careless bwahahaha. Killing miners ain't about skill, but I/we were doing it to alter the face of the game not just rack up honor points or anything to really benefit us personally, they weren't all miners, i'm just saying they didn't expect a force deep in their territory since they had pretty decent camps on most of our choke points.
You know that said, I left Eve after all the people I hung out with jumped ship to join the enemies of the then former curse alliance, when I found out that others were mainly in it for personal reasons and not wanting to be on the losing side I didn't feel there was anyone left in the game I wanted to play with.
Damn i love the politics of pvp, yes you heard me, some games actually have politics involved in the pvp, that is what's great about pvp imo.
Which Final Fantasy Character Are You? if I were to kill a titan tomorrow and no CCP employees showed up to say grats I would petition it. Waiting for: the next MMO that lets me make this macro if hp < 30 then CastSpell("heal") SpellTargetUnit("player") else CastSpell("smite") end
Politics are the worst part of pvp I think. It's hard for me to care too much about guilds that think they're important in some video game. I enjoy pvp for the pure combat part of it. The competition and the actual fight, not any video game drama that may surround it. Politics by their very nature discourage fighting because that's what politics are all about, using words and negotiations in place of direct conflict. It's a game, I want the direct conflict, not negotiations with a 12 yr old guild leader. However, at the same time I think the combat should have a purpose and some effect on the game world to avoid being shallow. I just don't agree that its effect should be personal economic loss (aka more grinding). Loosing your conquered territory and privledges associated with it is more like it....
You guys are nerds. What kind of idiot plays a hundred hours of games just to get a shitty item. Close this topic theres alot of wanking going on here.
Currently Playing: Metal Gear Online, Call of Duty 4, Grand Theft Auto 4, Oblivion. (Taking a break from MMO's)
What kind of idiot plays a hundred hours of games just to get a shitty item.
Considering you played AO for at least 59 hours you should ask that yourself.
PWNED!
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience"
What kind of idiot plays a hundred hours of games just to get a shitty item.
Considering you played AO for at least 59 hours you should ask that yourself.
PWNED!
yeah, he did kind of set himself up for that one. I personally always thought swg had the best pvp out of anything i played. I loved it prenge. Pre cu and post cu were pretty fun, nothing has really come close to it. WoW, CoH/V, Ultima, or a slew of the asian f2p's. That's just my opinion.
I guess I must be a part timer then, while I do enjoy PvP I don't enjoy seeing weeks of gaming go down the tube due to being ganked.
If I get ganked but don't really lose anything, then I don't really care too much. Probably why I still play PS, although I do play eve and getting ganked there can be damn expensive. Especially as our small alliance seems to have made some big enemy's
Comments
What we dont want is the system employed by mainly korean mmo's where for every hour you PvP you have to PvE for five hours to recouperate.
Thats not hardcore or skilled, its just a players time being taken away from what he actually wants to be doing and completely wasting it.
Considering you also said:
Makes me think the only "penalty" you accept would be 2 minutes running back to your corpse and only losing a few arrow shafts and pocket change. It just sounds like respawing in UT and running to the next bigger weapon.
Why not losing your equipment to the winner?
Why not just fight with the gear you can afford to lose?
Your play stile (aka "true pk") sounds more like wow battlegrounds then anything else to me.
The reason is victory for me is not the rewards that I may reap, but to crush my enemies, see them driven before me, and hear the lamentation of their women. I guess in order to hear the lamentation of their women the women need a reason to lament, which is where the death penalty comes into play, there is no reason to lament in WoW.
What constitutes an enemy for me is also in question, cause I kind of need a reason to fight someone. I don't have much desire to hear the lamentation of some dudes women I hardly know.
I miss Curse vs. Stain
Which Final Fantasy Character Are You?
if I were to kill a titan tomorrow and no CCP employees showed up to say grats I would petition it.
Waiting for: the next MMO that lets me make this macro
if hp < 30 then CastSpell("heal") SpellTargetUnit("player") else CastSpell("smite") end
If you have the same opinion as the OP. Yes.
Futilez - Mature MMORPG Community
Correcting people since birth.
If you have the same opinion as the OP. Yes.
Aww are you feeling left out?, if you actually read the op it says 3 main categories, and the middle way you claim to be is a part timer.Although if you meant midway between a true pk and a mm-emo then get off the fence.
There's indeed three types of pvp in MMORPG's. They just aren't the types you listed in your pitifull attempt atmaking some point for the retardo faction of consentualists.
Now, after getting that out of the way, here's your three types of pvp:
- "pistols at dawn"-ism
- "quake-ism"
- actual pvp
The first is your average 'must be fair', often consentual, low-loss, mostly item based noobfest. It's fun for as long as it takes you to realise that all that time you're putting into getting to that duel is kind of wasted since every fight is a copy of the next one when you only fight pre-arranged and predetermined battles of liited scope against about equal opponents. Bad thing is that people seem to be poisoned by something they regard as "honourable values" by playing games with this system. Calling it pvp is correct, but in my book it's very dubious when a game bases all of it's pvp on such systems.
Quakism is a mixed system of either consentual or non-consentual pvp where fairness is not exactly forced upon everyone but where the simple fact that there's no loss beyond the well known walk to the healer and back to the corpse. A true quakist system manages to remove even that downtime so that a full series of back-to-back nonsensical deaths and killings can be glued together to form one big orgy of futility. This is not pvp for most of those that engage in it, since pvp implies that there's a challenge. When you die every 30 seconds after running into combat guns blazing without any tactic other then trying to see what is trying to kill you in time to kill it first I don't think there's any question as to whether the game or the breathing you need to do while playing is the greater challenge.
Now, this leaves us with number three, the stuff our dear op would like to file away under "sport engaged in by masochist, rl-impaired basement dwelling sickos with certain social shortcomings". I'd say however that freeform, fully open noncensentual pvp is the only true form of pvp in MMORPG's. There's no honour in warfare, and there most certainly *is* loss in it. If I die in the mmo is play and end up having to go and get new stuff to use in pvp resulting in a downtime of say a full playing day then that's quite ok with me. If it was the result of me being stupid enough to get ganked by a dozen ten-times-my-level, deranged sickos then that's a good time to learn about combat evasion in my world. MMO's always thrown these nice terms at you to lure you into thinking you;re playing soemthign special. Terms like "poersistant" "player-driven""active storylines" and "developing lore". 90% of the time that's utter bollocks, except in games with an open-ended competitive nature, where player actions *do* matter and where pvp might not me fair, nor honourable, but most certainly is most enjoyable and challenging. PvP is ten times the fun when there's something worth dying for even if it means spending a full day getitng back up again...
Nope, wrong again. I'm not sure why you're trying to label me. Sometimes people are better at certain things than others, that's life. Just keep trying!!!
For such a "hardcore pvper", you sure play a crappy game for pvp..... EQ2? That's like playing FFXI or Ryzom for pvp...
I played EQ2 because that's where my guild went....and because I wanted to see if the PvP servers were any good. It's been a bad run for PvP titles, can you blame me for wanting to try it out?
"Freedom is just another name for nothing left to lose" - Janis Joplin
.jpg)
Don't be terrorized! You're more likely to die of a car accident, drowning, fire, or murder! More people die every year from prescription drugs than terrorism LOL!
In FPS everyone has same gear, same chance at powerups and it really comes down to player skill. The beauty of an MMO is that by putting some hard work into the game (unfortunately, usually in the form of lots of time) you can get a leg up on your competition..which is not a bad thing, like some folks would have you believe....
I'm sort of old and slow... so last thing I want to play is a game that is totally based on skill... which is why I avoid FPS games...and stick with ones where my hard work can help me be somewhat competitve....
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
a) people that pvp for personal reasons, wow players
b) people that pvp to alter the game, eve players
small skirmishes are fun in eve, but the most fun I had in eve was in the last throws of the curse alliance when I knew that when I logged on I was probably going to be stuck in a station and if not I was going to be fighting outnumbered the whole night long. But god damn we got away from some camps and ripped some shit up during that time, cause even though people were fighting us that just made those lousy stain miners that much more careless bwahahaha. Killing miners ain't about skill, but I/we were doing it to alter the face of the game not just rack up honor points or anything to really benefit us personally, they weren't all miners, i'm just saying they didn't expect a force deep in their territory since they had pretty decent camps on most of our choke points.
You know that said, I left Eve after all the people I hung out with jumped ship to join the enemies of the then former curse alliance, when I found out that others were mainly in it for personal reasons and not wanting to be on the losing side I didn't feel there was anyone left in the game I wanted to play with.
Damn i love the politics of pvp, yes you heard me, some games actually have politics involved in the pvp, that is what's great about pvp imo.
Which Final Fantasy Character Are You?
if I were to kill a titan tomorrow and no CCP employees showed up to say grats I would petition it.
Waiting for: the next MMO that lets me make this macro
if hp < 30 then CastSpell("heal") SpellTargetUnit("player") else CastSpell("smite") end
Currently Playing: Metal Gear Online, Call of Duty 4, Grand Theft Auto 4, Oblivion. (Taking a break from MMO's)
PWNED!
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience"
CS Lewis
PWNED!
yeah, he did kind of set himself up for that one. I personally always thought swg had the best pvp out of anything i played. I loved it prenge. Pre cu and post cu were pretty fun, nothing has really come close to it. WoW, CoH/V, Ultima, or a slew of the asian f2p's. That's just my opinion.
i hadn't seen such a stupid post on a long time. goob job to the OP.
I pvp for the fight, whether I win or lose I don’t care as long as it was a good fight.
-------------------------------------------------
Achiever 20.00%, Explorer 86.67%, Killer 60.00%, Socializer 33.33%
EKSA
-------------------------------------------------
If I get ganked but don't really lose anything, then I don't really care too much. Probably why I still play PS, although I do play eve and getting ganked there can be damn expensive. Especially as our small alliance seems to have made some big enemy's