My summary of who would enjoy Eve

Elnator · March 2004

Disregard... I found a free trial and am trying the game again and am finding that a lot of things that were true during beta and early release are no longer so. Giving the game another try before I judge it.

velocity219e · March 2004

I agree totally, I've just come to the end of my 3 day trial, I held off buying it after the beta ended because CCP seemed to be taking one step forward and two back, then someone offered me a free trial code, installed it etc ... its doing a lot better than it did during beta, nearly everything works! although they have kind of nerfed the mining a bit IMO

Its a massive time investment, I have a young daughter and I played three to four hours a day during this trial and I've not got anywhere at all, the trial does not do the game justice, but it proves that you need a fair bit of dedication to actually accomplish anything, I think I'm going to stick to MMORPGS that I can pick up and put down without having to consult my diary, If your retired, unemployed or live a life of leisure its a great game, if you have serious commitments like 90% of the population either kill your friends or look elsewhere

Velocity219e

Clever_Glove · March 2004

I don't understand this?

Every MMORPG to date has a billion messages of "if you don't have a month to play in each day, then you can't play". Eve is more friendly to "people that have life" than any other MMORPG I've played. You only need to log in for a few seconds to start the next skill. Your character gains skill while your at work/sleeping/ at the movies...ect.

I have children also, and this game requires almost no game time to keep advancing. Did you know you can buy a industrial ship, pull up to a big rock in a 1.0 or .9 system, then go to bed. When you wake up your holds are full. You can make millions while sleeping!

Even minning in less secure system I can do while: cleaning the house, scrubbing the bath tub, helping out with homework, fixing the car, typing messages on MMORPG.com. All you need are a few drones and your speakers turned up so you can hear when things lock on you. (don't do this is low security space .4-0)

Log in once in awhile to start new skills, make money for new things by AFK. Hell, if the game played itself it wouldn't be any easier. If anything EvE is too easy play, and overly friendly to AFKness.

-=-=-=-=-
Make no mistake, MMORPG's are not games, they are hobbies. If you have a job, you'll need to give up watching TV in order to play one. You'll be better off for it.

Bartle: A: 93% E: 55% S:3% K: 50% Test learn what it means here.
Yee: Ach: 85% GRE: 65% AFF: 15% Imm 15% Test Click here to learn about it.

Malkavian · March 2004

I play Eve and i have to concure with Glove including the summary regarding time management with mmorpgs.

- Malkavian

"When you find yourself falling into madness... Dive." - Malkavian Proverb

- MMORPG.COM Staff -

Elnator · March 2004

See first post...

Clever_Glove · March 2004

Originally posted by Elnator

Yes, it's true t hat all MMO's are *more* enjoyable for the power gamer but the bottom line is that if you are a casual gamer EVE is a waste of your time. You will NOT be able to hop on for an hour and feel like you've accomplished anything meaningful. In other games you can. That's my point. To those who have the TIME to dedicate to EVE it's a great game. To those who do not, it's a waste of money.

To say means you have literally no understand of the game at all. I question if you even played the demo.

In one hour you can, make a million isk minning in my frigate, I can run a couple agent missions, I can trade run, I can engage in PvP. In fact everything can be done in 1 hour than can be done in 24. Expect you'll do a little less of fit.

All in the time it takes to get into a group in other games.

Maybe you didn't like EvE for some reason, that's fine. No one expects you like anything. However, your statements are completely false. It shows the extremely limited understanding you have the game.

I'm sure the most popular MMO's would love to you have back. Good luck with them.

-=-=-=-=-
Make no mistake, MMORPG's are not games, they are hobbies. If you have a job, you'll need to give up watching TV in order to play one. You'll be better off for it.

Bartle: A: 93% E: 55% S:3% K: 50% Test learn what it means here.

Elnator · March 2004

See first post

Elnator · March 2004

Re-visiting the game... disregard this post

Clever_Glove · March 2004

It did take about 5 hours of gameplay before I upgraded my ship, then about every 15-20 hours of game time I bought a slightly better frigate. At the end of the my 2nd week I bought a industrial ship.

I did read over the message boards and the player guide. So if by "gifted" you mean, actually learned to play the game... then yep. I don't accept handouts, if I can't earn something, then I'm not worthy to have it.

Took less time than it takes to get to level 20 in EQ.

I'm not really sure what your getting at, you kinda of saying. "I started EQ, but I couldn't get to level 65 in under 10 hours of gametime so it's not for the cuasle gamer". Ships are a bit like levels, they take time to earn. But unlike other games, EvE isn't about time invested, it's about time spent wisely. The game is not going to hand you free "levels" you must earn your way up.

I can understand why this is a turn off .

I lost my little ship about 3 times learning how combat works. I even lost my really uber frigate once. (this is laughable, frigates are anything but uber) But that's why you buy insurance, I actually made a little money in deal. You did know you could insure your ship so you can replace it when it's lost?

Let's pretend you didn't. You where training skills that would improve your money making abilities? Or did you just try to increase combat skills?

Your abilities to replace a lost ship even in the newbe ship they give you even you have no ship, dramatically increase because your skills have improved. Skills that were improving while your weren't logged into the game... ex having a life.

If it took you 10 hours the 1st time to earn a upgrade to the newbe ship, it'll only 5 hours the second. (or maybe even less, depending on your skills). This is of course assuming you were NOT smart enough to insure your vessel.

Your arguments, don't hold water. I'm sorry you didn't like EvE, it's all good that you didn't. But please stop this, your just making yourself look bad.

Eve is a open free market game, it's not a game for everyone.

-=-=-=-=-
Make no mistake, MMORPG's are not games, they are hobbies. If you have a job, you'll need to give up watching TV in order to play one. You'll be better off for it.

Bartle: A: 93% E: 55% S:3% K: 50% Test learn what it means here.

Elnator · March 2004

Re-visiting the game... disregard this post

Winterblink · March 2004

In EVE's defense, it was designed from the start to be a "hardcore gamer"'s MMOG. It's not necessarily as rewarding for the casual gamer as it will be for others. That being said, if you're the type who really likes to get into the games you play, EVE's got enough depth to keep you going.

Riotgirl · March 2004

I see both sides to the argument but agree with Clever_Glove that you actually can play EVE casually simply because whilst it may take a long time to get from A to B (i.e. upgrade) the fact is unlike other MMOG's you can do this whilst doing other activities e.g. sleeping (excellent skill based system allows you to train off-line), reading a book (whilst mining) or simply logging on for an hour to fly a mission.

The real problem with casual gaming in the Eve universe that in order to explore it's depths requires a great deal of investment in the game on the social side. Eve's dynamics are generated by and large by the players - this isn't a level treadmill game, where you camp x mob, gain xp, LFG, LFG c'mon people! Give me a frickin' group will ya! camp x mo .. DEAD! Bastards! etc, but one where gameplay is truly open-ended. On one hand, this allows alot of freedom, on the other free-form type games requires investment in the form of a steep learning curve.

Also, Eve comes into it's own when you join a corporation. The social aspect of Eve really drives the game whilst the game mechanics allows players to control huge swathes of territory, providing corporations with a tangible presence rather than simply displaying the corporate tag above one's ship.

IMO if you're a casual gamer than you simpy must adjust your gaming style and expectations in any MMOG that you play. I agree with Clever_Glove 100% when he states that MMOG's are hobbies rather than games. If you really don't have time to get involved then why not play X or X2? Also, since one is a casual gamer why this focus on achieving x within a y time-frame? Surely, the most important factor is to have FUN whilst you are playing!

re: Pvp

Winterblink,
You made an earlier comment about one's investment being instantly vapourised by 'pirates'/griefers (delete as appropriate)
camping gates. You're right: Eve is for "hardcore gamers" i.e. CCP do not hold your hand and like any MMOG with PvP there are people who will kill you for the sake of it. It's law of the Jungle. But unlike other MMOG's, Eve provides you with the necessary information to make a risk assessment e.g. using the scanner and map, you can check for pirate activity (ships destroyed, no. of pods destroyed) within the last 24 hours for any system, no of players currently in systems etc etc. If you are going to low sec space with valuable cargo then bring an escort. Also, always, always use insurance!

It is a harsh, cold, unfeeling and uncaring universe out there populated by all types of scum (in a RP sense ) and it's up to the individual player to calculate and manage risk vs. reward. I do remember one player quitting the game because he/she lost all of their corporations blue-prints through pirate activity. What said player was thinking by transporting invaluable BP's in an industrial through low sec space with out ANY kind of escort is another matter ..

Regards,
Riotgirl

P.s. Anyone would think that I still played tha game! Bah. Will have to give some serious though to re-subbing at the end of April.

"she's like this cleavagey, slut-bomb walking around going 'oh, check me out. i'm wicked cool. i'm five by five'."

imasig · March 2004

Mining is the last way I try to make money now days. Used to be the only way I thought you can make money. Some other ways are:

NPC Hunting: Much easier to do now with cruiser pirates in empire space. Between bounties and the loot you can refine or sell it is just as profitable as mining.

Ore Buying: Get your refine skills up, place buy orders at a price you're willing to pay and refine the ore for a profit.

And if you're really desperate:

Ore Thieving

Heartland · March 2004

Another good way to make some cash is agent missions these days. Not so much the straight money rewards is some of the items, with Tech 2 production seemingly ramping up, the construction components are getting harder and more expensive to find.

Agents also give out skill packs and implants, that each will score several million ISK.

Gardar · March 2004

I play Eve and i still have time To play Battlefield 1942 and unreal tournament so Eve does not take alot of time unless you want it to take all of your time

Gar

DSM_Luck · March 2004

I dont know where people have gotten the idea that it takes a ton of time to make money in eve. I spent exactly one hour of time in EVE mining. After that I bought a small frigate and started hunting pirates. 4 Hours of game time later I had the best frigate I could use fully decked out and nearly 3 million in my bank account. Thats not alot granted but thats only in 5 or so hours.

Valkanisar · March 2004

i was in the beta also and i must say it is such a big difference now. im actaully getting hooked on this.after figuring out all of the controls and the rest of the interface have just been power questing. getting rich. all this and more with not to much lag. im starting to like this more than EnB. this game is far more advanced and more fun

Elnator · March 2004

Welp, I decided to give EVE a second chance before I re-reviewed it so I'll be brief:

I re-tried the game, did the 10 day free trial and wound up deciding not to continue my subscription beyond the trial.

2 basic reasons:

Can't really justify paying $150/year for a game that doesn't offer me much more than I can already do in Freelancer for $19.95 one time cost. The only things EVE really gives me over Freelancer is the ability to capture a sector of space, which I'm not all that into anyway and longer progression of ships to get.
Don't enjoy the combat interface for EVE at all. I gave it a go and while combat was 'ok' it just never hit a level where it was 'fun' to me. I'm a sim-rat. When I fly a spaceship in combat I like to be looking out of the cockpit blasting my enemies to bits and *dogfighting*

Other than that the game was pretty good. I enjoyed my time in it but the enjoyment wasn't on a level where I could justify sinking $150/year into 1 game that I only play a few nights a week. Another area I found lacking was the complete lack of any kind of 'quests' beyond the agent missions. The only missions I ever got for an agent were:

Go kill some guy
Go kill a bunch of guys
Haul this item from A to B
Go pick up this item at A and take it to B
Go mine X ammt of ore and bring it back to me
Go mine X ammt of ore and take it to B
Get me X ammt of Y commodity

Granted that's a bit more variety than I can get in Freelancer (all they give you is 'go blow stuff up') but the missions in EVE aren't much better than what you can come up with to do on your own. The payouts are pathetic compared to what I can accomplish just collecting bounties for a few minutes or what I can get from mining for a little while (ungh... utter boredom)

Don't get me wrong. I think the game is awesome and I'm glad a lot of folks enjoy it. It's not for me though. It's deep enough, it's just not fun enough to justify the costs. I've gone back to Freelancer hoping that someday someone will come up with my perfect space game....

Freelancer crossed with EVE with a nice quest-driven storyline to play in.

Oh how I wish someone would make a Privateer Online EVE came close... but the 3rd person point-and-click interface just kind of makes combat not all that fun for me.

top_trep · April 2004

I completly disagree with you !
I play Eve on my work and home too! ::::40::

Elnator · April 2004

You're welcome to dissagree with me all you want. Like I said, *I* don't like it and *I* don't feel that it's worth $150 a year to play a game that I o nly play occasionally. If I played every day and all the time like I did EQ and UO and DAOC in their times I wouldn't have a problem paying for it.

Unfortunately it's missing something, for me.

Do the trial, see if you like it. If ya do, great, if you don't that's cool too.

Olrox · April 2004

Originally posted by Clever_Glove

I don't understand this?
Every MMORPG to date has a billion messages of "if you don't have a month to play in each day, then you can't play". Eve is more friendly to "people that have life" than any other MMORPG I've played. You only need to log in for a few seconds to start the next skill. Your character gains skill while your at work/sleeping/ at the movies...ect.
I have children also, and this game requires almost no game time to keep advancing. Did you know you can buy a industrial ship, pull up to a big rock in a 1.0 or .9 system, then go to bed. When you wake up your holds are full. You can make millions while sleeping!
Even minning in less secure system I can do while: cleaning the house, scrubbing the bath tub, helping out with homework, fixing the car, typing messages on MMORPG.com. All you need are a few drones and your speakers turned up so you can hear when things lock on you. (don't do this is low security space .4-0)
Log in once in awhile to start new skills, make money for new things by AFK. Hell, if the game played itself it wouldn't be any easier. If anything EvE is too easy play, and overly friendly to AFKness.

-=-=-=-=-
Make no mistake, MMORPG's are not games, they are hobbies. If you have a job, you'll need to give up watching TV in order to play one. You'll be better off for it.
Bartle: A: 93% E: 55% S:3% K: 50% Test learn what it means here.
Yee: Ach: 85% GRE: 65% AFF: 15% Imm 15% Test Click here to learn about it.

What is the fun in that? To start mining when you go to bed, wake up and make tons of money? You may as well just go watch a sci-fi movie/show or somthing, it would be a lot cheaper. Or if you want a "life" just play a single player RPG and talk on an IM at the same time.

Clever_Glove · April 2004

That's kinda my point. If anything, EvE is too easy, on the "casual" player.

The down side to the Real-time based skill system, you can't get ahead by playing more. If it takes 7 days for a skill to reach level 5, it takes 7 days. (if your on or off line) Playing more doesn't make that happen any quicker.

The plus side is, you can log in for 30 seconds every couple days and "keep up".

It's the PvP that makes things interesting and where the real fun lies, but you need to replace your ship once in awhile. EvE is a economics/warfare game more than a hack-slash level-grind type game. If you like this type of thing EvE is for you.

I see EvE to be the most suited to people without allot of play time. (0-20 hours a week) Those people that do look to log 40-60 hours a week in a game, would probably get board with EvE.

-=-=-=-=-
"We're a game that's focused on grouping and on solo play, you know, more group oriented, more solo play..."
John Blakely Senor lead for EQ2. Link

Bartle: A: 93% E: 55% S:3% K: 50% The Test. Learn what it means here.

amontoya77 · April 2004

Yep, that all sounds familiar. We were complaining
about these same issues way back during the beta. Eve
is simply an exercise in frustration for the
new/average player. It's a mining simulator. A
crappy one at that.
Mine, process, sell and repeat.
Ooh, big fun, that.

Work your ass off for a few weeks to get a ship
upgrade just to watch it get blown out from under you
by a bored player.
Ooh, big fun.
Watch as you work all day for a load of ore just to
have the game crash, effectively stranding you in the
middle of nowhere. You get to sweat the next 5
minutes, hoping against hope you didn't get spaced
while you feverishly try and log back in.
Ooh, big fun, I want to play.
Watch as the market takes a dump just as you invest
all the money you have in a new ship or weapon or
cargo pod or whatever. Bye bye new ship... bye bye
money.
Ooh big fun, I'm ready CCP, please oh please take my
money, you gaming god you.
Watch as you slide into that shiny new combat ship,
ready for action, ready to bring a little bit of pain
after being everyone's bitch the last month only to
have it turned into a fireworks display by a small
group of weak NPC pirates an hour after you buy it. I
learned really quick that even a loaded rifter is no
match for 3 weak pirates during the beta... hell, I
lost 4 rifters that way... and that was before they
corn-holed the rifter by dropping one of it's weapon
slots and another of it's shield slots.
Ooh, big fun, only $12 a month you say? What a deal!
And look, the CD came with it's own Eve-Online brand
bottle of lube. That way, it won't hurt so much when
CCP bends you over a station railing. They think of everything!

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My summary of who would enjoy Eve

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My summary of who would enjoy Eve

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