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Issue 9: Breakthrough! announced at Warcry
therain93
Member UncommonPosts: 2,039
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therain93
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*looks over to this CoH box*
Think i might renew my sub when im through with WoW:TBC, my main grip with CoH was a lack of economy and crafting.
Interesting, let's see how they implement all that new stuff into gameplay. I'm curious to see more information on Issue 9, thanks for the teaser tidbits therain93!
---I'm not trying to hurt you, I'm simply saving you from that hideous costume you're wearing.
I just read that article I did not see this get mentioned. please link to where u got this info.
Ah you are talking bout PvE encounters and such. I was thinking you meant 'hamidon enhancements' gotten revamped
Did I read the article right will it be possible to get hamidon enhancements from inventions? or do they mean just normal enhancements. cause my 50 toon has no need for the normal enhamcents. anyway sounds intriguing
I am ready to either praise them or cancel my subscribtion when I actually understand that; assuming this info is reliable.
I will admit, this text is incredibly vague and hard to understand. Even I would have troubles to be more vague or unprecising as they are now.
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
Vajuras,
Anything that is a reward in the game, can be made through Inventions. So the way everyone is reading it is Hami-Os are a reward, thus you can make them. Also, don't forget when making IOs, you will get SET bonuses. Manticore info
The SET bonuses are confusing after reading the UK boards where you make enhancements to add effects to your enhancements, such as adding a DoT factor to a hold or immobolize, a chance to stun, +End or +Recovery, etc......you can read it <**SPOILER alert**> here. If you do read it, keep in mind they were using an incomplete system. Some good info and I can't wait to get started. I'm not worried about loot because it is not like WoW and you will not have to farm a certain mob type to obtain it. It just comes in common, uncommon and rare with a certain drop rate no matter the mob.
Yeah, it's disappointing to see we get the double XP weekend more because of WoW burning Crusade release than anything else(my opinion at least).
Just like another article Warcry wrote, unless CoX does some major gameplay changes it will falter this year(not go away, just interest in the game will dwindle) and they don't think Inventions will be it. I'm looking forward to Gods & Heroes, Tabula Rasa and now Age of Conan after reading a little more about it. These new MMOs can't get here quick enough for me.
hey thanks tute! so if I understand this document correctly I can spend some influence on the parts. then build myself a dam/acc hamidon? how does this work do i have to kill mobs and hope i get a random salvage drop or can I spend Infamy and get myself the hami-Os?
darn I just skimmed through that doc somemore. It looks like I need some rare slavage in order to give my toon some hami-Os I knew there was a catch. anyway not gonna say another word just wish they'd give me my hami-Os from pvp I'd come back for that
I think it could be really great for those that enjoy tweaking their toons and hate the idea of raiding. hopefully they will add the auction house allowing you to easily acquire the rare salvage and then build the hami-Os from that. also, will improve grinding for prestige for SG bases. so now a lvl 50 will happily grind prestige and help his guildies lvl cvause he's gonna be hoping for that rare drop I guess. This system will add more grind for the loot whores but that is a good thing I guess it'll keep'em occupied.
The important thing from what I guess this just merely adds another 'option' for end game players and lowbies alike. More 'options' could be a good thing. anyway loook forward to reading how this works out when it goes live I might resub for a few weeks to check it out
Correct, the intent is the system is not needed to play the game 1-50.
Whether certain players view it this way and don't complain thus bringing about another ED
is a different matter.
Also bear in mind we don't have numbers on the Hami-style enhancements, they might prove to be merely Hydra-style. I suspect SO level too, but it wouldn't surprise me if they're not.
It's the additive ones that really intrigue me. They were already hinted at months ago, but getting close it's fun to think about what they can change. I can already see something adding KB protection to Fire Shield so my poor Fire tank doesn't need Acrobatics anymore.
Of course the real question will be just how difficult the salvage is to get. Why do a RSF for a random Hami-o if I can just farm something for enough salvage to make my own. OTOH, if the work is way too much, it may color the game with a negative raid-style attitude and make players like Anofalye leave the game.
The other nagging concern - and a reason I've never been all that upset by the nerfs of 2005 - is that by 50 you're already so damn powerful how much more do you need? I could drop 3 powers and 10 slots from plenty of characters and barely even blink. Worse still would be further character consolidation by adding attributes that weren't previously available.
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Someone had a screenshot of a 40% enhancement. I will see if I can locate it again. Not to mention we've heard about 50% enhancements from Statesman a year ago. Also, it's not so doom and gloom about being too overpowered. ED was put in place as a cap so even with 3 50% IOs(or whatever they call them) you will NOT be getting 150%. Even that second IO will have a drop off. It just means you will reach the cap with less slots. So you slot more recharge instead. Hmm, still not one-shotting anything just more damage over TIME. I still do not see anything bad and we know the devs had started to err on the weaker side, preferring to buff instead of nerf. The only thing I might see are SET BONUSES. Adding a CHANCE of energy damage to your lethal/smash attacks doesn't sound overpowering either. From the UK site, the little they interacted with the unfinished system, many new aspects just added the CHANCE of something happening to an existing power.
I'm not sold on 50s being THAT powerful. I have no trouble handling DE in Rikti Crash Site with my Fire/Stone tank but the Rikti mobs take some inspirations to defeat a mob. If I can get some acc debuffs to my attacks and a few less hits then I could handle them the way I do DE. Those are just level 50s too. I'm not worried about them making us overpowered. Even if a 50 is "overpowered" who cares? Go to Firebase Zulu and Storm Castle to fight. PLing is pretty much a thing of the past because of the aggro limit. You will be crafting and collecting a lot of the time. You will have a new Hamidon to fight and hero side LRSF(and maybe you won't need Shivans and other temp powers now if you used them before that is).
Though I disagreed with ED, the devs have learned how to introduce things carefully(i.e. weaker then buffing as needed).
Personally I can't wait for Inventions and yes, I would absolutely love to add KB protection and get rid of Acrobatics, Even with all the end reduction I have slotted, I still run into a few end problems in extended fights(damn Rikti bosses don't go down fast enough, tough suckers).
But then I'm right back to having so few weaknesses that I fear it takes the challenge (and thereby the fun) out of playing. Also consider that a recharge enhancement gets wasted if the power doesn't get used when it pops up; tht end enhancements are wasted if you're not in danger of running out. Those two things specifically I think get overlooked all the time even by us min/maxers that obsess over slotting. Sure it's nice to think that Total Focus recharges a second faster, but if I can't fit it into my attack chain any sooner what's the point?
And then there's the ED effect - sure, slotting 3 specials for 150% (which reduces to about 105 I think) is strictly better than slotting 3 SOs for 100% (and getting 95). The question becomes, is it worth the time, effort, and expense to do so? For all that I went through, I'm now getting well-less benefit than a small red inspiration. Getting the most efficient use of the power then is not really the most efficient use of my time.
I'll enjoy looking over the crafting possibilities with the invention system, but what really interests me is what the desire for salvage will get people to do. Seeing more players on their 50s, running around looking for challenges, would be very nice.
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Hey Amasir,
I've just decided to stay postive about this system(as opposed to ED /em shudders) because everytime something is brought up, there is someone on the official boards to present a reason why it should be toned down or left out. Such as the rumor that eventually we will have enemies that you will WANT an Invention enhanced character to fight thus some people are saying that makes Inventions a REQUIRED system instead of an OPTIONAL one. So you see one of you worries(e.g. little or no challenge) is addressed but brings up another concern for others(e.g. forced requirements to enjoy extra content).
Basically, I'm reducing it to looking at it as new content, the non-combat content I've wanted for a long time and this is what I tolerated ED and all the nerfs for.
If I'm going to the moon(a Rikti outpost maybe?) or the Rikti homeworld, I want some time to prepare and IO max my characters. No more homefield advantage.*
*yeah, these are some of the rumors floating around that we will get a spaceport in possibly I10 or I11
And good point on Acrobatics Vajuras. It's just even after getting rid of Tough and with even two end slots in Acrobatics, both shields have an end reduc plus one of them has a Ribo, all attacks but Stone Fist and Stone Mallet have one end reduc...I still can run into end problems. I can't wait to make my own end/resistance IOs....no more end problems.
Let's hope they release this on test soon because they want to test the system longer than they've tested anything else(they said maybe about 6-8weeks).
on my 50 EM/ELA brute I went 3 end redux in acrobatics and 1-2 end redux in each shield. In my attacks I went 3 dmg 2 acc 1 recharge. however, I also had Conserve Power, Power Sink, stamina, and power surge for end building. I really liked conserve power because it allowed me to build fury w/o stopping to sink and it was good against -end like carnies (that mark of vivication is -end).
Anyway I have heard about Stone brutes and their end troubles. I wonder what secondary you went? I really loved /ELA it was so good for end consumption I thought the Devs did an outstanding job with that set
Don't get me wrong, a little bit extra always helps. But it's kind of an extra drop in a swimming pool, and IMHO I'd probably prefer the extra power 99 times out of 100. Which doesn't necessarily mean I wouldn't take CJ and SJ anyway. That's why Acrobatics has always been to me, even on blasters, a -knockback power with a -hold bonus.
Back to inventions:
I don't think I said it very well but I'm thinking of it as a catch-22 no-win situation.The only way I could see it working is if more difficult content existed purely for it's own merit, not to feed the power loop. Suppose we all played on Heroic and Rugged because Invincible was this nutty level that almost no one could ever handle, and those that could were sacrificing way more time and effort than it's worth. And it had been that way forever. Then we could say that IOs exist to get yourself up to that Invincible level - but if you don't want to play on invinc you don't have to, you're not locked out. It might segregate us into people who run on Invinc and people who don't, but then I think sometimes we're like that anyway, just not so honest about it.
They could of course get there anyway by adding salvage-providing content (at normal level) and then making the next extra content (e.g. Rikti moon zone) a bit harder. Even then you'll get the "it's not fair - I need X to play on the moon!" But that may be inevitable, and is at least better than "I need X to play!"
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I took some time last night to play around in the university myself and got the Inventor badge. So I can speak somewhat more specifically instead of speculating as much as I did earlier. (Although do to changing patches there's a lot that's been reported I couldn't see.) Here's the Schedule A list for enhancements (that's Dmg/Acc/heal etc, but not defense/range etc):
- Level 10: Boost 10%
- Level 15: Boost 15%
- Level 20: Boost 20%
- Level 25: Boost 25%
- Level 30: Boost 30%
- Level 35: Boost 32.5%
- Level 40: Boost 35%
- Level 45: Boost 37.5%
- Level 50: Boost 40%
Now that may be subject to change or is bugged, because the 25 Flight IO I made says 29.5% on the info. But that's what the invention computer terminal says right now, so I'll trust it.The rule is you can start using them at +3, but they never expire or diminish in effect. And you can't combine them. So if you make level 20s for use at 17, you won't have to replace them at 22 with 25s - but you might want to.
Knowing that however, it gets interesting. Remember than an even-con DO is 16.7% (with a +3 being 19.2) and an even-con SO is 33.3% (that's 38.3 at +3). So suppose if you're willing to play around with this system that you have cash to burn, a reasonable assumption. That means if DOs and SOs are available, you can afford to buy them. So for this rundown I'm assuming lots of influence, salvage is scarce but obtainable.
- At 15 you can buy DOs, which are already ahead of 15 IOs. Why make 15 IOs ever? They start behind and will always be that way.
- At 20 an IO boosts 20%, better than the DOs you're still stuck with. That's a small potentional benefit for a brief window until 22, and then the IO's benefit is that you don't have to upgrade it. But of course you'd want to, since we all know SOs kick in there.
So thus far the only IOs I would possibly make are lvl 20s for use 17-21. Considering they're just a tad better than DOs, I'd have to be tripping over this salvage to consider it worthwhile. It's not like those levels are all that slow anyway.- 25, 30, and 35 are all strictly worse than SOs. It doesn't seem to make sense even for a moment.
- A level 40 IO provides 35%. That's just about equal to a +1 SO. So I wouldn't want it at 37 (+3 SOs are better), nor at 38 (+2s better), it's a wash at 39, and better at 40-41. - And that's assuming I don't ++ everything out like I know some people do.
- Assuming you used 40 IOs, 45 is the first time we actually face the challenge you'd think would be standard with this system - replacing IOs with IOs. You get the question "It's better, but is it better enough to trash what I have?" Which is a good question worthy of it's own debate, I'll leave that for another time.
- And then at 50 we get the 40% IOs we'd wanted, strictly better than SOs in ever case. These we'll say are worth making.
So my net conclusion is - so far IOs are a lot of work for nothing. The system is there to make them constructable at all these early levels, but it hardly seems worth it. It seems like low-level IOs might be a decent choice for someone who's strapped on cash and doesn't mind staying below the curve for a while. But A) who wants to settle for 25% when you can buy a 33% so easily.Now I know that doesn't matter too much, most of us are looking at IOs as a level 50 endgame thing anyway. But it's nipping at me that they put in work to make this system available early, yet it's pretty obviously not worth it. I'm making a mental note: don't buy the hype about IOs not turning red - never waste salvage on lower level IOs.
Also to be fair, I should emphasize that this is only the most basic IO system, available to anyone who walks into the university. "Set enhancements" (which I think need a better name) are not listed and I presume fall under the category of recipes that need to be found. (Thereby making them more mysterious. For a week, until the players compile the list ourselves.) So for all I know, these more rare enhancement types may have a better curve or even hit that 50% mark at the top end. So far though the basic system doesn't have me scrambling.
p.s. For anyone who doesn't know, if you want to check out the university yourself, go to Steel canyon with a flier. Go up over the war walls, fly back under them under the ground, and fly next to (but not into - you get TPd) the university structure. If you stay carefully under the floors you can find Admissions Officer Lenk who bounces you other contact with clicky missions (and one door mission you can do) along the way. It's cool to play with, you get to make an IO, and it ends with the Inventor badge - but it's also frustrating getting the contacts and clickies without waypoints and without being able to hit floor level or above.
Currently playing:
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Well my posts were taling bout leaping pool as a whole. Anyway a little extra mag protection goes a long way. For /ELA brutes, fire/dark/ice tankers/brutes, Acrobatics is great and for many squishies as well its simply insanity to skip.
CJ+Hurdle is simply godly for pvE/PvP. unsupressed movement is a god send. my brute could make a huge leap to the next spawn and maintain fury. I cant imagine not having CJ+Hurdle maxed out with 3 +jump all my toons have it. long range toons can make unsupressed leaps away from mobs and hit them with attacks. Sure, I can see ppl get by with other builds but CJ+Hurdle is the most common combo you'll see in most builds. Also did you know CJ+Hurdle is faster then unslotted superspeed? Also, unlike superspeed, its unsupressed! Why do you think there's so many traveless builds out there? Because they are getting around well with just hurdle+CJ. CJ+Hurdle is even faster than sprint+swift+lightning reflexes if memory serves me correctly. cheaper too on endurance
Personally I think Arena is the best place to test out the best builds. Builds that lack CJ+Hurdle+Acro get slaugetered fast (squishy toons especially, but melee toon vs mind/kin troller running Hami-Os is also good test). take two ice/cold corrupters and put them in arena. The one lacking CJ+Hurdle is going to get pinned, period. so think about this- any mobs that hits you wil -spd effects wont stop you cause you have CJ+Hurdle. For melee toons the last thing you want is to be pinned, not being able to hit anything.
we did tests in arena with a troller vs /ELA brute (no grounded, power surge not up). acrobatics stacks with /ELA mez shields providing enough extra mag requiring the troller to stack an entire extra hold to overcome mez protection (this is the thing- a HO'ed out troller can perma-chain KB you if they break through mez). tested this with frosticus and toon of war not too long ago got it on film too (had it on film think I lost it so u will have to PM Frosticus for better explanation). We were verifying some things. I think the exact count was 4 stacked holds which is not easy thing to achieve. So think about it- acrobatics stacking with mez requires an EXTRA hold to overcome your protection. Thats not small to me.
Now think about this too- you can quicly retoggle acro and pop a BF. most mez protection shield have much longer recharge then acrobatics. For comparison sake, Integration takes 3.1 seconds to reactivate. Unyielding is 2.3 seconds. Acrobatics is only 0.67 seconds! So if you get detoggled you can quickly retoggle Acrobatics. Cant say the same for Integration, etc. It's not that hard to get detoggled- Malta (end drain) and a few other situations come to mind.
Also, this is the thing- if the Devs gave Grounded (/ELA secondary KB power) low KB mag protection what makes you guys think these invented enhancements will be better? dont forget KB protection has magnitudes as well. they could give you a KB protection enhancement but make it weak mag. next thing you know you're getting knocked down by just power thrust, chained KB by AVs like Mako, and powerboosted psi attacks that have knockdown properties to them. all this happened to my brute. Now, if the enchancements provide high KB protection thats a different story but I dont think that will be the case
Break frees increase mag protection that stakcs with acrobatics too for both KB and Hold protection. Clear mind and any other KB/Hold protection buffs will also stack with Acrobatics. The leaping pool is a spectucular line it provides excellent KB/Hold protection stacks very well with outside buffs. before taking on an AV on my squishy & /ELA brute acrobatics + break frees was all that was needed. There is simply no such thing as running Acrobatics by itself. you are always stacking it with break frees, mez shields, or being buffed by teammates. I know my /kin corrupter has buffs to stack with acro for instance. in sirens on my corrupter I used to always purchase those break frees that last 90 secs for solid KB/hold protection to stack with acrobatics